Mzimela said: "The minister [Hogan] ensured that their (DPE's) communication was with the board or the chair of the board. I found that Hogan or the individuals under the ministry would ensure that any communication to the organisation was formal, written communication in all instances.
"We also knew who the individuals were who would interact with the organisation ... Under Gigaba, what we then suddenly found was that we had lots of people from the ministry who had in the past never actually come into the organisation to request information.
"Things were beginning to fall through the cracks in terms of the management of information which, for me, was a breakdown in good governance."