i would like to urge the minister of police to revisit the decision to ban Rubber bullets. i beleive if the poleci were to use those then the damage would have been much less!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tobby
These police are telling lies, they were not attacked, we did not see them being shot but we did see them shooting, shame to you police men Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
letsetse
Which Police are talking about ? thugs in uniform Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
maneater
Agreed.
Nathi has to be one of the most arrogant and clueless ministers in the entire portfolio. What the hell was he thinking? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
hiddengold
Guys please view extract below from TimeLive to gain perspective
___________________________________________________________________________________
The crowd instead formed a line and, crouching, struck their pangas and sharpened iron rods together to create a war beat. The line slowly advanced towards the police, crossing the barrier line the police had set up. The police opened fire when the strikers attacked an armoured Inyala.
They first used stun grenades and rubber bullets - but when a striker was seen pulling out a shotgun and firing at the police, the police switched to live ammunition.
After the hail of bullets - which was caught by television camera crews - only dust and gunsmoke hung in the air.
What happened yesterday was an unfortunate incident it is not only what you saw on etv last night that was the end not the beginning Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
SOLUTIONS
maneater
i would like to urge the minister of police to revisit the decision to ban Rubber bullets. i beleive if the poleci were to use those then the damage would have been much less!!
--------------------------------------------------
So our police must protect themselves with rubber bullets while the criminals are using real ammunition, I think not. a message must go out to criminals like these that the country is not going to be held hostage by savages. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
DJWinner
Let's see now how are our noisy opposition will use this to score some political points. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Stumaeza
They were not attacked - they were practicing their shooting skills on our innocent black brothers Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
DJWinner
Our condolences to all those who lost their lives.
Lessons learnt from this:
People must listen to the instructions of the police.
People must not go to strikes armed. They may have weapons, but they cannot match the firepower of the police.
I believe there is nothing else that police could have done in that situation.
Since we all now have cool heads, we must now use this opportunity to reconcile and move forward as a safe nation Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
mporoza
@ Stumaeza
What do you mean innocent? Those guys where armed, in this case the police did nothing wrong.
So our police should use rubber bullets when hooligans and thugs masquarading as employees are attacking them ? If you have watched the video from Time you will realose that those thugs were sitting on a hillock and quickly charged towards the police, breaking the barricade and attacking the hippo......So still the police were expected to use rubber bullets....Noways. These hooligans had the machetes, pangas, steel rods, steel pipes and all sorts of armaments and they have been requested to disperse since the beginning of this week, but they refused. Surely we cannot have hooligans and criminals ruling our lives...... Report Abuse
Agreed.
Nathi has to be one of the most arrogant and clueless ministers in the entire portfolio. What the hell was he thinking?
===================
I coudnt have said it better myself, and to add to that Nathi is full of himself... Now innocent lives are lost, kids are facing life without their fathers... Are we cursed to deserve such a Minister? I'm still shocked about what happened last night, it was like watching a movie. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
pedi4life
@mporoza wa hlanya keng,mapodisa a swanetse ke gothuntsha batho idiot,wish they could have started with you kid. they are other means that they could have used other than killing people Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
SOLUTIONS
DJWinner
Our condolences to all those who lost their lives.
Lessons learnt from this:
People must listen to the instructions of the police.
People must not go to strikes armed. They may have weapons, but they cannot match the firepower of the police.
I believe there is nothing else that police could have done in that situation.
Since we all now have cool heads, we must now use this opportunity to reconcile and move forward as a safe nation
-----------------------------------
What do you know, I agree 100% Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
mporoza
pedi4life
Can you please share the "other means" they should have used? Let's engage, no marogana moo!!
Talk it's cheap dear, the police are also husbands, brothers, fathers and etc, their lives are also important. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Sphalaphala
I dont promote what happend yesterday, my deepest condolences to all the families who lost their dads, sons, uncles.
But South Africa we must learn that Police mean business, they've been there since last weekend, two Officers,two Securities and four workers were killed by their fellow workers.
Police did warn them, how can you charge at an armed TRT with pangas and 9mm pistols?
TRT is trainend for situation like that no ordinary Police can do that, i dont blame TRT for responding with life immunition. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
mhlupheki
my deepest condolonces to the families who have lost their loved one. i also feel feel sorry for our man in blue because earlier this week two of them died but no one ever made noise or raised a concern about them but now they have acted on their self defence there is a big noise. i saw the president of umco kneeling down begging the strikers to disperse but they refused. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
1tsotsi
Truly. I could not believe what I was seeing.
The cops didn't have much option as there was no backup plan at all. No razor wire, no water cannons, no defensive shields .... nothing. How do they send the cops in with nothing to protect them like that? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Why should things degrade to such extent? Lonmin has had such a bad time that they pulled out entirely. Guys there go's the infrastructure the technology and income to our GDP because some little union wants to fight another stupid union. Perfect African perspective, stuff what it does to the country we will fight. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
1tsotsi
MommaC
1tsotsi
Truly. I could not believe what I was seeing.
The cops didn't have much option as there was no backup plan at all. No razor wire, no water cannons, no defensive shields .... nothing. How do they send the cops in with nothing to protect them like that?
===============
I guess putting an incompetent Person in such a high position, will backfire... Nathi knows FOKOL, those policemen should be charged with murder, wedont need trigger happy police. I also thing Lonmin mine should be stripped its mine License. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
JeanClaude
@ Sphalaphala aka Ntombenhle
You could not have said it better.
As South Africans, we must learn to exercise our rights without infringing on other people's rights.
but the sound of the gun shots though you it was like fireworks damn you policemen ....mesunu ya lona enklek Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
1tsotsi
Why? Lonmin didn't do anything wrong. It is just the playing field for the gang violence between the rival unions.
I hear that they are looking to close down production completely. The platinum price hasn't been doing well and the mine is losing a lot of money so they are looking at mothballing the SA mine. That will sort out any wage dispute. There won't be any wages TO dispute Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
MommaC
They have shut down their SA operations as the fighting caused their shares to plummet.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2012/08/14/lonmin-halts-sa-output-after-violence-9-killed Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
candilious
@Sphalaphala-My sentiments exactly .............on point Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
dead_man_walking
@MommaC
I hear that they are looking to close down production completely. The platinum price hasn't been doing well and the mine is losing a lot of money so they are looking at mothballing the SA mine. That will sort out any wage dispute. There won't be any wages TO dispute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
do you know how many people are going to be affected if Lonmin closes down? 1/4 of Rustenburg and Brits depend on Lonmin.
In south africa we have a huge problem with salary negotiations,Our unions takes bribes for signing agreements,and infact companies wants to do aways with unions....strikes does no longer have impact with the salary negotiations..
Cmpanies put business plans at time of negotiations and this thing of having two different unions in one company is dividing us.
And again if we can look,we the youth especially the educated ones,we don't take part in union's activities only our black old people does and most of them are not educated.
The cops didn't have much option as there was no backup plan at all. No razor wire, no water cannons, no defensive shields .... nothing. How do they send the cops in with nothing to protect them like that?
The police had all the above mentioned, this statement is flawed. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Papage
Where are this Police from, are they Rusternburg police or what, I can't believe what i saw, shooting people like that, Minister Nathi Mthetwa must be sued and I suspect police did this to sabotage the ANC Government, there are still elements of Appartheid forces in the Police, they will do anything to disturp peace. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Papage
I think unions must stripped and disbanded. This isn't government who failed to act it was the unions who failed in diplomacy don't you think? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
cornelius
Rubber bullets have been banned because they are too dangerous, so now they use live ammunition instead ! Typical ANC confused idiotic thinking. I suspect the rubber bullet ban was supposed to show that the government is responding to the tragic Andreis Tatane affair. Instead of rather improving their crowd control skills, they just come up with the stupid idea to ban rubber bullets. Those 18 lives would not have been lost with proper, effective crowd control techniques - tear gas, rubber bullets, water cannons, baton charges using shields, etc.
The head of police, for failing to ensure that SAPS is properly trained for these situations, should not sleep peacefully, for these deaths lie on his head. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Ngiyaphapha
Papage
What do you expect a police official should do when two of his/her colleagues died from this violent protest?? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
mozzi
This should have happened long ago, protesters think they can rule this country!!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Fred55
A lot of different organisations and people must take blame for this disaster.
1) Unions: don't come to strikw with guns, pangas and assegais and rocks. the days of violent strikes are long gone. You ran down the hill charging the police. Did you think you were an impi or war party or something? Please this is the 21st century, grow up and move into the new century. Union leaders must condemn violent strikes.
2) Police: why didn't you 1st use rubber bullets, bird shot, tear gas, water cannon??
3) Politicians: The ANCYL, tried to stoke anger, the ANC politicians kept quiet and I get the feeling this was part of a much bigger political battle between ANC and the union factions.
4) Business: were you paying the workers a fair wage?
5) Workers: were you being productive and doing your jobs or did why did you decide to go on a wild cat strike? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Fred55
sorry, I forgot that the minister of police had recently banned rubber bullets!! What an idiot!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Blackstone.lebs
Gud Morning @ ALL
It's really sad that lives got lost, in some case the only source of income. RIP to all that passed and condolences to their families....These miners have the right to protest like any other South African, but bringing along pangas, guns and all sorts of weapons to a protest is completely uncalled for. It just shows intent to commit crime, attacking the police is a criminal act and will not resolve greviances.
In any protest there will always be those with criminal intentions, it's a bad culture that needs to be guarded against at all times. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
SHEMAN
Shame Banna ba rena...It so sad indeed..They seek to escape the dangerous conditions they get inside the mines,but come across such a great disaster...
REST IN PEACE...hle bathong...It so sad...I could imagine the situation...
Working in a mine is so dangerous... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Danielrjvvuren
Thanks for the link.
So they are closing ALL of their mines. Jirrie, that is going to have a huge knock on affect to the entire economy.
dead_man_walking
Well I suppose it will stop the violence for now. They will have nothing to fight over. Rustenburg had best hold on tight as this is going to affect them something HUGE Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Blackstone.lebs
It seems that diplomacy has failed. I am all for standing up for injustice and really would of been sympathetic to the cause if they did not have inter-union fight and bring these weapons. Are the police really all that wrong for starting to shoot? God if a mob comes my way frag grenade will be thrown in that mob. How else would a human react? Flight vs Fight hey. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
MommaC
How nice is that. Stuff your wage increases here is no wages for you and welcome to unemployment! Clap Clap Clap.... Report Abuse
@Stumaeza
They were not attacked - they were practicing their shooting skills on our innocent black brothers
.............................................................................................................................
My sister, those thousands of armed miners who were charging towards the police were not going to the police to give them hug or shake their hands,they were trying to ambush the police officers relying on their number...but it backfired badly!!! What about the miners who were found riddled with bullets being killed by these protesters. The security guards who were locked in the car and burned alive, what do you say about them???? These people were taking chances, trying to ambush heavily armed police !!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Commrade
Comrades "ECONIMIC FREEDOM" yesterdays tragedy waz something else, Ama-berete @ it again well done "Nathi" i think you Proud of your "Team" Shame on our Safety ans Secutity Department. The Union and the Mine Management Should have prevented this they should carry the blame as well.
Yes, its true the guys attacted the Police but they had every right because they are fighting for whats rightfully theirs a decent "SALARY" to take care of their FAMILIES. Comrades Mines are making hell lot of MONEY then what difficult for them to pay the People and carry with the mine oporations.
well again if the Youth League ntervene again they will blame us for miss leading the people. this clearly shows we still far from getting close to ECONOMIC FREEDOM. Comrades are free or are we oppressed by our own Government. Condolences to the Families who lost their loved one in yesterdays shooting. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Pula
Some people think with their toes, uyazi like PAPAGE, and this are people who thing that they can wield their pangas at police, and expect the police to treat them with child gloves. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Kabelo10
The police did what you and i could have done too. They too afraid of their lives, those strikers were armed with short guns and pangas. Let's not pin point on the police as if they are the bad samaritans, the police were in self defence. PEACE Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Commrade
@Mporoza SHAME on you Chief............"Police did nothing wrong" clearly you enjoy the prutal killing of our own people by our own Satety Department who should be protecting us. the Protesters where not supposed to be armed by they didnt deserve what happened.
@Sabza007 what about the Mine Management and the so called Union...? So are we saying they did nothing wrong as all FINGERS are pointing at one direction.
Comrades please we still believe this could have being prevented from day when things got out of hands. they should have at least promised something better even if it was not going to happen at once but at least something to get the situstion better. but NO those People according to the Comrades they were not supposed to fight for whats wrightfully believed to be owed to them.
Comrdes POWER TO THE PEOPLE not bullets to our people.
The way those protesters were armed I could have protected my life too by shooting at them becauase when they get to you they make sure that your body left lifeless,i dont blame police. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Papage
Batswana! ka ditlhobolo le mefaka e mekima!!!!! No ways, are those people from the area or foreighners, I think many are Zulus, they carry such weapons, not Tswanas, Batswana ke makwala Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Blackstone.lebs
@Fred55
4) Business: were you paying the workers a fair wage?
+++++++++++++
Lonmin reported that there's a wage agreement in place until next year, agreed to by all unions on the bargaining forum...the wages could still be low yes, but unions have another shot at negotiating again next year. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Lehido
Fight fire with fire...Shoot their arses Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
ILTAK
thnx mporoza 4 ur suprt lt dm tlk nd we wil contur shootng
Seems like someone thinks that 'no loaf' is actually better than half of one.
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face !
Now it is suddenly Lonmin's fault? The wage issue didn't even come up until the third week of the violence. It is purely a turf war between rival gangs (unions). Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Commrade
@DJWinner, BOSO believe you me this has nothing to do with Politics. Politics of nie Politics... all Political Parties should intervene in whats happening down there, those mine manages should be are shamed of themselves. they driving big cars living large and they dont care about the people who are making it possible for them to leave the life's they living at present.
DJWinner i understand your arguement but these has nothing to do with political points. we should work jointly to get to the solution we dont need more killing of our own people by our own people.
Comrades can i be honest with you all, believe it or not the "WHITES" are enjoying what "BLACK" people are doing to themseves......... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Mpharane
This should be a lesson to those who like to use violence in the name of rights. And those who are power hungry. The police were protecting themselves. South Africans stop being used. If you are power, it doesn't mean you can be used by the people who power hungry. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
MommaC
This is what I am not understanding... Am I missing something here? Why is everyone blaming the mine? They are upholding their part of the bargain struck last year at the workshop. Then the unions turn up and decide: "fu9k that, we going to insight violence break down infrastructure and halt productivity so that the mine share drops with 5points then demand an increase!" Now call me radical thinker, but if I was Lonmin I would also book out as soon as possible. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Naivegirl
@Commrade
The police are part of "your own people". Just because a young man decides to follow a career in the police service doesn't mean that he now all of a sudden is the enemy with "apartheid tactics".
What is it with this them and us mentality?
Lastly - the citizens of SA should start listening to the police. They are the authority. They are not there to negotiate the law. They are there to uphold it. If you engage in unlawfull activities you should feel the full extent of the law. Make peace with it then things like yesterday will not happen.
Education is verry important. Muti people perform magic to convince u that a bullet will not penetrate u. But who r u gonne tell when u r dead? Anyways wht do u expect if u bring weapons to a strike and charge at the police. Condolenses to all the families that have lost loved ones. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
BraSteve
Funny how people go on strike and march carrying weapons, and sometimes even go looting, stone passing cars and claim they were "marching peacefully" Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Blackstone.lebs
@Naivegirl
...They are not there to negotiate the law. They are there to uphold it. If you engage in unlawfull activities you should feel the full extent of the law. Make peace with it...
+++++++++++
Spot on! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Danielrjvvuren
This all started when NUM did the negotiations and left the rock drillers out of the package. There was already this new union who is doing well at poaching NUM members (Num is down from 66% to 45% representation). The rock drillers then decided that they would speak directly to management. Management agreed and NUM went ballistic about it. The other union approached the rock drillers and THAT is when the violence started.
The problem is that this doesn't only impact on Lonmin, it is affecting the entire foreign confidence in the country. Everything is going to be affected by the perception that we are an unstable country. They have to sort it out soon or this will become a huge spiralling mess Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Popeye
I wonder why only Black people strike…where were white miners during the shooting? We need to stick together like glue as Africans…I don’t care who was right or wrong…cause killing each other will never solve the problem…Mzantsi omuhle…as Blacks, we are not free to live…let us free our mind and the rest will follow. May the souls of the decease RIP. Let us pray…amen. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
ILTAK
pls am a police lady nd i love my job nd i am a human bng so stop hrtng our fillngs coz u mk us 2 hte u wes Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Blackstone.lebs
The line between protesting and committing crime is very clear. If you go on strike then start beating up colleagues, damaging property, threating non-striking members you're no longer a protester you are criminal and should face the might of the law, period! Report Abuse
@Popeye, white miners? you're not serious, right?
About the police, every job comes with responsibilities, hazzards, perks and everything else... just a thought.
About the "armed and dangerous" strikers... I'd think by now we all know that violence doesn't solve anything... all it does it cause hurt, death and heartache! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Ass-eater
@ Tobby, you right, you didnt see police being attacked because you only watch etv, watch real news and comment with facts, those miners were heavely armed with spears, guns etc, police only fired live bulllets after the crownd of thug miners cross the bearer line, it was self defence from saps, i blame the bloody union for this shed of innocent blood, you tell the guys that they worth R12500,00 for digging a whole,bloody traitors. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
MommaC
I was about to say the same... Good God what is that? VOWELS are your FRIEND! The effects this is going to have on our GDP is huge, Lonmin is the 3rd biggest platinum mine in the world we can not afford to lose them and we just did. We will have to see the difference in next years mining figures and the workout on our economy. People have a lack of forecasting sight. They see only the now and not the long term degradation we are going to have now. It is sad news indeed. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
McCountryMan
Ke Mzansi le podisa la legowa le tla tunya, i still thinking that the was a better way of handling this. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Ncedomb
I believe there was a shooting between the miners and the police, but because police are trained to shoot then they were more powerfull. who was suporse to die? no one wants to die so everyone must protect him or her self. the lives of those police who were killed by the miners is as important as the miners who died yesterday. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
SharpSharp
Police shoooooot to protect yourselfs.....Labourers do negotiate not what is happening ko marikana...Those are thugssss, so shhhooot and shoooot till they giveup. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Lojech1
when you go to a Sangoma you are given (intelezi) with a promise that you can stand anything, even a bullet will not penetrate. a person becomes un controlable, thinking he can stand anything that comes his way and Consequences becomes severe after that, who was suppose to die when being attacked, the miners or police officers. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
SharpSharp
Danielrjvvuren
When you always talk about money even when ppl's live are in danger why????????? jaa nee Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Commrade
@Naivegirl yes indeed the Police are our own people. i dont remember saying they were not our own people. again i quote "apartheid tactics" i dont know anything about that may be you can teach me a thing or two right there!!! this has nothing to do with Politics like i said and i will continue to say this we "Black Nation" are killing ourselves of course with the help of the so called Government of our.
Lastly, Naivegirl the Employers should think of their Employees. number one have you being underground...? probably not have you seing a person whom a rock has felled on..? i dont think so!!! let me tell you most of this mine bosses have never ever being underground you know "why'" becuase its tough down there....dont tell me about the police. did you see how our Policekilled Andries Tatane...? did he have a weapon on him when he was brutally killed. please dont tell me about the POLICE i lost respect for them many many years before you were born. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Papage
During our times we would start burning police homes now and chasing them out of the Township, you dont murder people you police them, have you seen how America control such violent situations? what is wrong with our Police? I think I will dig up my AK47 Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
SharpSharp
Because in the end your life to me as a business student is walking rands and cents. Humans are just a resource to use, but if you followed the discussion further you would see we have already discussed the human element and moved on the implication to our economy, but you who has come in much later reads only what you want thus your argument is not just invalid but really ignorant. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
SharpSharp
Are you REALLY that short sighted?
I would estimate that 90% of the problems we have in SA are due to unemployment being so high. Now how is ignoring the effect of this on the economy going to solve that problem? It isn't. All it is going to do is make it worse.
This vicious 'war' doesn't only affect the miners and Lonmin, it affects every aspect of our economy. In other words a violent turf war between thugs who call themselves 'unions' is going to cost us many more lives. Is that REALLY what you want? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Danielrjvvuren
Keeping my eye on the Rand and the Market Indicators. I don't see this ending well unless it is resolved VERY quickly. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
SharpSharp
Commrade
The role of Public Order Police (POP) in South Africa is mandated by section 205(3) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996, which determines that the main functions of the Service are inter alia to maintain public order, protect and secure the inhabitants of South Africa and their property, and to uphold and enforce the law.
So if you act unlawfully the police are mandated to uphold order...What happened yesterday it was the other way of upholding order... It is not the problem of the police if mine owners dont go underfround workers dont have the right to take out thier anger on to police...As the citizen of SA they must respect the law... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
MommaC
It might just cause a bit of a hick up or might be worse? It will be interesting to see how this works out, but one thing I can say is invest in platinum in other countries or de-invest in platinum in South Africa. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Sharks
It's sad that it got to end this way bt I can't blame the police on friday they used the nice approached to dispersed the crowd and wat happened to them, they were killed by the same crowd carrying all those traditional weapons bt Vavi, Anc, DA and IPID said nothing. This could have been resolved early by all these people I mentioned here Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
LBS
@Commrade
Comrades can i be honest with you all, believe it or not the "WHITES" are enjoying what "BLACK" people are doing to themseves.........
---------------------------------
YOU are racist and stupid to boot!!
Whites are NOT enjoying this at all, but we ARE amazed that (some) blacks continue to allow themselves to be manipulated to serve the agenda of selfserving people, be they union bosses or political parties.
What happened was not a staged scene in a movie, but a tragedy - one of too many to date.
The belief that many of the miners held was that they were immune to death because of some 'muthi ceremony' performed on them is downright frightening in this day and age.
They were misled and used by their unions as usual.
The police IMHO were within their rights to protect themselves in whatever way possible - faced with armed men on the rampage, what would you have done?
My sympathy to the families of all who died unnecessarily. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Danielrjvvuren
Well selling now would be a bit silly. If anyone has Lonmin shares at the moment, they should just hang on and hope or take one hell of a knock.
First it was Implats and now Lonmin. How long before it spreads to the other mines? The guys in gold are becoming very jumpy about this. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
missteeque
the number of illiterate people commenting on this is ridiculous! we still have a long way to go as people! the damn thugs shot first for heaven's sake! killing 2 police men! rubber bullets against live ammunition r u kidding me? we r so quick to point fingers when we r ignorant fools! read all the articles related to this instead of commenting on what u saw on e news yesterday! learn to READ before u come up on such platforms revealing ur ignorance!!!! this is indeed heartbreaking but what were the police men to do? what they were trained to do! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
MommaC
Lets just stay away from investing in minerals and go Barloworld. Hear they just hit a nice contract with Unilever with the new warehouse in PMB. Going to be a nice investment but more longterm investment. Only really pay off in about 10 years/ Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Shredder
Sowetan has got an article on this tragic incident in 3 places, now where do they expect us to comment? why not make it one article or if they do have it on 3 places, block comments on 2 and open it on 1? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
SharpSharp
MommaC
What i am saying is simple this Daniel always talk about money no matter what happened...Anyway it is your view i am not gonna stand against that but i was just saying ppl who think about money when ppl are dying are...
It is like when you drive company car and get accident the first question they are asking is that is the car ok before checking on u. I know that cars in company do contribute to the growth of the company but the question is ist neccessary to check on the car first before your employee....
@Danny i heard what u said you did pass the stage of analyising human resources but u are always obsessed with finances anyway thats your field keep it up...You must be careful dont talk too much about money when ppl are dyinggg u will be killeddddd.. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Shredder
I'm having that same first world problem! hahah where to respond to... hahaha Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Shredder
SharpSharp
@Danny i heard what u said you did pass the stage of analyising human resources but u are always obsessed with finances anyway thats your field keep it up...You must be careful dont talk too much about money when ppl are dyinggg u will be killeddddd..
========================================================================
Tell him SharpSharp tell him. Hihihihihi Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
SharpSharp
As I am with money you are with death threats. It is just that we already spoken about it and money is what drives us all, and in the end makes us drive our lives forward so yes I talk about money because that is what I chose to educate myself in and what I do, so you can take your threats and try it in someone who will actually be afraid of you. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
SharpSharp
And your life is no consequence of me? If you costing me money then you will be let off. People die everyday the world doesn't stand still for some fools attacking people with semi automatic weapons... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Naivegirl
@Commrade
"Comrades please we still believe this could have being prevented from day when things got out of hands."
You could just as easily put this at the feet of the protesters. They could've prevented it!
But it got out of hand and not at the hands of the police. The protesters burned a security guard alive, killed workers that wanted to work and shot dead two policemen. In the meantime the police called for calm several times. The protesters proceeded to storm the police with weapons and actually shooting at them.
When and under what circumstances in your opinion would it have been acceptable for the police to retaliate? When one/two/three more police officers were killed? When more workers were killed?
I am not very bright but I know 100% for sure if i storm a police officer with a panga/gun/knife I will for sure be shot. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Sipho2001
African’s lives will always be cheap as long as they behave irresponsibly. There is an attitude amongst Africans that your actions have no repercussions.
- The miners behaved irresponsibly. You Can’t demand a 300% wage increase it simply does not work. The mine would no longer be profitable and shut down. Then what? You don’t even get your R4000. If you don’t like the R4000 you can quit anytime. Secondly you can’t strike using violence.
- The unions and the union bosses behaved irresponsible. They can be blamed for this bloodshed. They incited the violence and are more guilty than the cops that pulled the trigger. I wonder if they really care about the dead?
- The current government took no leadership on this matter. There had already been scenes of violence. Where was the ANC leadership? They allowed a powder keg to build up. Our president has no backbone.
- Us as the people who voted for a weak man who we knew was corrupt. Us the people who supported a rabid hyena like Malema who stirred up some anti mining sentiment. We need to learn that it is important to vote responsibly. I think many of us supported Malema/Zuma just to p1ss of the wh1teys. How can we chuck away our votes on the undeserving?
The police getting the blame is ridiculous. All of the above Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Shredder
@Danielrjvvuren
SharpSharp
As I am with money you are with death threats. It is just that we already spoken about it and money is what drives us all, and in the end makes us drive our lives forward so yes I talk about money because that is what I chose to educate myself in and what I do, so you can take your threats and try it in someone who will actually be afraid of you.
=========================================================================
He is not threatening you, only asking why you are obsessed with money :-D Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
SharpSharp
There is only so long that you can be in shock about something this horrific before you start looking at the ramifications.
This isn't only about these men dying or the money or even the mine. It is about the confidence in the stability of our country. That confidence affects both from external and internal perception. It also affects the country's behaviour. Should this method of 'recruitment' for unions become rife over a broad spectrum of industry, our country will descend into chaos. The rule of law will go out the window and the law of the jungle will prevail. Of course that is the worst case scenario and one that is unlikely to happen BUT it has to be looked at so that situations like this don't become common, every day occurrences and we don't bury 30 odd people every time two unions decide to have an argument Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
SharpSharp
Danielrjvvuren
You are a smallboy u cant do anything .....hahahahahahahahahaha Danny dont worry bafana i was just saying no big threats. It shows that even if someone close to u die first thing for sho u are going to check if she/he is on your funeral covers.... Chose to educate your self on the expense of dying ppl....iesh let me stop
The situation in that place need through investigations...How can members of other unions dont listen to there leaders...What is it that they promised them...Who is behind all this, actually who brought sangoma ....
:) luckily, I don't have any money to gamble on the stock exchange with.
Long term can be tricky. The world is a dynamic place and what looks good today can look pretty sad next week - just ask Lonmin shareholders Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Shredder
@SharpSharp
Danielrjvvuren
You are a smallboy u cant do anything .....
==========================================================
Hahahaha, with Juju's voice of course. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Chichi7
In all of this blame to the police, people have forgotten the innocent lives that were killed by these miners. They burnt 2 people in a car and now look at more blood shed that could have been avoided.
Shredder
Because being a Master student in the Marketing Field at the University Of Kwazulu-Natal I am thought to be all about the money. I have always been financially inclined. For me 16 I did not ask for presents or a party I asked for money to invest, same for my 18th and 21st. Unlike you I will be retired at the age of 30 to enjoy my life. Work hard now play hard later. Everything has a working on the market and having invested so much time in the market lives have become tools to make more money. Thus the loss of life leads to an indirect effect on my investments and this is what MommaC and myself have been discussing. Does that clear things up? Report Abuse
It is really bad that something like this happen. But you don't go on a strike and arm yourself as these guys did. At least they get their pay every month. That's more that could be said about the mine in Springs etc that stripped it and didn't pay their workers for how long and that is run by Black's. Funny that the unions haven't said anything about that. The unions are just filling their pockets and don't care about the worker. Cut their salaries to the same amount as the workers and see how they are going to react. Unions would rather use violence to attract members than use civilized methods to gain members. That is something I have experienced since I was a young guy. Black people seems or rather a lot of Black people would first resort to violence before trying to resolve the issue at hand in a peaceful manner. If more politician/union bosses promote peaceful civil events a lot more will get done. But then they will lose support to the more violent groups Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
SharpSharp
Its a dog eat dog world and this small boy has learned it a long time ago my friend so I your corps is in my way I will walk over it to get where I want to be. Report Abuse
great I can't even spell today corpse!!!!!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Moffdat
Not really. As long as they do know something, they are valuable learning tools. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Moffdat
They do hinder me a bit, but it is interesting to get the flipside of the coin. I might sometimes be too cold and calculating, but they now know why I am like that and helped them understand. The banter we throw around is normal and all will be fine by the time we move along. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
SharpSharp
Shredder
Wena shredder mara...kikikiki
Dan
As i said before this world is funny, ppl look at it differently, go on and shine good luck ......... Bye Bye....talk later.... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
SharpSharp
Cheers man be safe this weekend ne! Condom, no drinking and driving and hey! I want to see you back on Monday. Have a good one man Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Shredder
@Danielrjvvuren
Shredder
Because being a Master student in the Marketing Field at the University Of Kwazulu-Natal I am thought to be all about the money. I have always been financially inclined. For me 16 I did not ask for presents or a party I asked for money to invest, same for my 18th and 21st. Unlike you I will be retired at the age of 30 to enjoy my life.
===================================================================
Wait wait wait. UNLIKE ME? Hold it right there .
Anyway, good for you. Retire at 30 as you say and enjoy your money. You are a miracle.
Shredder
What is your plan for the future? Are you over or under 30? I bet you are thinking middle to upper management? I am thinking about board of directorships large investments in property(already have 2) and international investments. That is what I am getting at. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
hiddengold
@sabza007
@Stumaeza
They were not attacked - they were practicing their shooting skills on our innocent black brothers
.............................................................................................................................
My sister, those thousands of armed miners who were charging towards the police were not going to the police to give them hug or shake their hands,they were trying to ambush the police officers relying on their number...but it backfired badly!!! What about the miners who were found riddled with bullets being killed by these protesters. The security guards who were locked in the car and burned alive, what do you say about them???? These people were taking chances, trying to ambush heavily armed police !!!
___________________________________________
On point my brother Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
@Daniel and MommaC
I was talking about the two of you. 30 Lives have been lost and all the two of you can talk about are crests and throughs, Mid-long term investments. Know it alls... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
hiddengold
@Papage
Batswana! ka ditlhobolo le mefaka e mekima!!!!! No ways, are those people from the area or foreighners, I think many are Zulus, they carry such weapons, not Tswanas, Batswana ke makwala
_____________________________________________
Z.U.L.U.S always blamed for everything next we will be blamed for glabal warming or the European crisis Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Moffdat
I thought so. 30 lives have been lost due to stupidity. Pure and utter stupidity. *crest and troughs no "h" and as previously stated in one of the other threads we dealt with the human factor we just naturally progressed to this point. But please do make more ambiguous statements I just love it. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
Danielrjvvuren
Faking intellegence is one thing kid but being an ignorant,selfish person is another.
You my friend are both and proud of it. Proves you're an idiot!!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Shredder
Hihihihihi, you really are 24 years old. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Moffdat
What happens today impacts on what happens tomorrow.
That isn't being a 'know it all' it is being practical. Maybe if those miners had thought about the consequence of their actions then there wouldn't be 36 families left broken by this. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Moffdat
Rather a rich idiot than a poor fool. Ignorant no, selfish yes are we not all. The word you are looking for is a bigot but its alright if you do not know the word. Thank you so much for being an armchair activist, because you of all people random stranger called Moffdat has showed me the errors of my ways I will relinquish all my worldly possessions and be a monk... Now call me sarcastic and more names it so bruises my ego....... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
tasvika
watch the video and U WILL SEE THAT THE OFFICERS COMMANDING THE SHOOTING ARE ALL WHITES !!!!!!! WAKE UP SOUTH AFRICA!!!!!!!!!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Shredder
I am what of it? 6 years to accumulate more capital. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
tasvika
LIAR ! LIAR ! LIAR !
.... see, I can be rude and shout too. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
Danielrjvvuren
You know when you talk through your @ss cowlick you really stink up the place.
Go back and read the first comment i was not calling you a bigot(extremist, hypocrite etc)
I was calling you an idiot!!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Shredder
@tasvika
watch the video and U WILL SEE THAT THE OFFICERS COMMANDING THE SHOOTING ARE ALL WHITES !!!!!!! WAKE UP SOUTH AFRICA!!!!!!!!!!
====================================================================
Agg not this racist card again. Even if they were black. I can't think of any other way it could have been prevented. Those policeman had to defend themselves. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
UKUFA!
If you choose to live by the sword you will die by the sword. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Shredder
@MommaC
tasvika
LIAR ! LIAR ! LIAR !
.... see, I can be rude and shout too.
=================================================================
Have you seen the video in youtube? Neither did I ;-D
I only saw it in the news. I will watch the video in youtube. I hear that it shows more than on TV. The problem with youtube is that is full of white racists :-D and it is just unbearable to read their comments. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Moffdat
No just not my ego, it bruises so easily, Moffdat my poor poor delusional Moffdat, I'm trolling you so bad and you have moved from debating with your logic to debating with feelings showing the African disposition we all face and what happened at the mines too, people did not get their way and emotions took charge SA responds with a tactical police force who was forced to open fire and Africa responds with feelings. You are proving my right every step of the way. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
Danielrjvvuren
Too bad i can't know your identity. Chances are i'm arguing with a secretary, PA administrative clerk or something like that. They are always the ones trying to sound smart around the office!!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Moffdat
Your talking to a 24 year old white student from UKZN sitting at home on his computer. Again shows me that you actually do not know anything... Please go on. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Shredder
Doubt that tasvika had seen it either :)
The desperation with which some people try to get attention is irritating. Why turn it into a race riot? Not like that will suddenly make time go backwards and people not get shot Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Shredder
MommaC
Shredder
Doubt that tasvika had seen it either :)
=====================================================================
I only saw one policeman, we don't even know whether he was a commanding officer or what. Besides, even if he was not, that incident was inevitable given the situation at that moment. Tasvika is only pouring oil on flames. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
@Daniel
You are proving my right every step of the way.
Ever heard of rules of syntax!!!! Go back and read your comments, on the other articles as well. It's riddled with spelling mistakes, i wasn't going to say anything until you started running your mouth and putting money above peoples lives.
You know what's worse than a capitalist???
A wannabe capitalist! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Look in the end the loss of life is unnecessary and whom ever is responsible must be held accountable to the utmost of the law, it is sad that 36+ families have lost not only sole breadwinner, but father and loved ones. Investigation needs to be done to see who is to be booked but I am of the opinion that it is the unions. As a result of this economical, and you can see here on Sowetan, platinums price has shot up because of the riots. Does that cover all the bases? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Shredder
@Moffdat
@Daniel
You are proving my right every step of the way.
===================================================================
Daniel is 24 years old; he's got lots of energy. You won't go anywhere with this argument ;-D Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Moffdat
You are following the classical case of loss of argument, if you have no argument left you attack the person, if that fails you attack his spelling and grammar, and please I implore you to show me said mistakes I would love to know it and correct the mistake. You know what is worse than an random stranger trying to put you down? One that fails in that very task. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Shredder
Helps if you sleep till 10 haha students life is great, but going to end sometime. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Moffdat
@Daniel
You are proving my right every step of the way.
Ever heard of rules of syntax!!!!
++++++++++++
LOL
If you are going to pull someone up on their use of the English language, it is always a good idea to proof read your comment before pushing the 'submit' button. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Shredder
And don't spoil my fun! He is very entertaining! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
@Daniel
You seem to be coming around! Next time use your brain when you type and not your sausage!!
You ignoramus!!!!! You don't have to be in his presence to sell your soul to him. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Shredder
And duuudddeee if you want to start investing get that FNB investment trader for R200 you can start hands on investment, I have a feeling you will do well at it. I sound like an FNB steve rep. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
@MommaC
go read our submissions again. I was calling him out! Support your ignorance all you want i'm probably richer than all of you combined so the next time you want to talk money over lives. Back it up with some ZAR
p.s. I'm not playing with you i'm playing with the kid from KZN who thinks money can buy manners.
Just when i thought you were coming around you go and say something stupid. Do you know what nnyam mmao means? ...No?
It's a slure, directed at a person whose mother brought a piece of shhhh.... into the world! So
nnyam mmao!!!! Not because i don't like you, for all i know you're a wonderful person (i doubt it) but because you have no respect for human life!
Kwena mang Charlie. Ke sa sorta mosono wa nwana o bareng ke Danielrjvvuren
When i'm done you'll get your turn... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Moffdat
Thank you random stranger with whom I will never share a common goal with. You will find many people who have a disregard for human life as we all strife to improve ourselves and family not other people, but you are right o saintly man from the office unknown! Stultior stulto fuisti, qui tabellis crederes in the end.... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Another one from yesteryears Stultus est sicut stultus facit Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Moffdat
Would it surprise you to know that I am also not religious at all? You know that might just explain my anarchy? Haha you've lost your entertainment value.... Not fun anymore. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
Danielrjvvuren
Those latin quotes aren't going to get you anywhere kid I'm doing my masters in jurisprudence!!! Go try one of those sharks cheerleaders... oh i forgot you can't cause you're a nobody!!! lol
We may be the same age you and i but talk about light years...
In all summation i don't know who you racing, i'm already at the finish line with the flag waving!!!!!
Moffdat
Clap clap clap shows over you bore me. You were entertaining, but now not so much. Great the theorist... No wonder your so self entitled. All words and no action is what I'm getting. Bored now... Report Abuse
as in No wonder you're so self entitled Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
Danielrjvvuren
Letting Allan Gray, FNB, Investec, Alexander Forbes manage your portfolio doesn't make you an investment Guru kid! Respecting molla above anything else is a sure fire way to lose your self respect.
I mean you've already lost your mind, you're 24 and still at University, you're a white male in South Africa, you have a small p@nis, brain and attention span. Now ask yourself... can you afford to loose anything else??? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Clie414
I think the police are lying. Why there is no comment from the other party. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Moffdat
So enlightening please continue with your dull theories, they have the masses entertained... *yourself
Moffdat
Have I not told you I'm done with you? Discarded like yesterdays news paper you hold no value, you bore me go and entertain you delusions of grandeur Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
Danielrjvvuren
Now that you understand what nnyang mmao means i feel obliged to take you on another cultural journey kiddo!!!! Marete agu... when directly translated it means your balls but since you don't have any you have nothing to worry about. However i will be good for goodness sake so... marete agu Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Moffdat
You have loads of time for a successful man to be talking about a 24 year olds balls. Might even be that you like balls. I'm getting that vibe from you. You like men? You go on like a little bitch. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Shredder
hihihihi
Moffdat, you insult Daniel politely; explaining what the words mean in English, hihihihi. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Moffdat
@TheRealHumanIsBlack
Do you have an Aston Martin, lambo etc.
Shut the f@ck up and stop hating. Why don't you hate on yourself for hating... HATER!!!!!
Report Abuse
Your elocution here is just staggering... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
Danielrjvvuren
We may be the same age kid but you don't wanna start talking about balls kid. It would take your whole ancestry for you to fit into mine... Talking about bitches, how's your mama??? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Moffdat
How does it feel to know that my grandfather mowed through your ancestry with an automatic rifle at sharpville and in klerksdorp. So you do not deny you like balls... Makes sense such an obsession is unhealthy better go see someone about that... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
Danielrjvvuren
Racial slures now now now Daniel we know you're better than that. I know your grandfather didn't do that cause the garden boy James was bending him over Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Moffdat
Says the one who threw the first racial slur... Ai you know you blacks always had a short term memory problem, but don't stress yourself you won't live long enough to matter. All these gay things you say... hows your boyfriend doing? I see you get hard for Bobby Motaung. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
Shredder
hihihihi
Moffdat, you insult Daniel politely; explaining what the words mean in English, hihihihi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Everyone has the right to some culture. I'm just shoving his head up his @ss so he can see sh@!t clearly. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Okay this was great fun, but I'm over it now. I have to actually do stuff today.
Moffdat
Thank you for the discussion man, I am a 24 year old born German emigrated here student. I have some capital, but thats also because the Euro was so strong and invested wisely. But besides that man have a great weekend man. Be safe. Don't squander to much of your wealth this weekend! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
Daniel
When did i say something racist. Me haai khona
How can i be racist when i'm sleeping with your mother... she gives the best head ever *rolling my eyes* Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
I say again... Your words are but empty shells on my ears. What you say and what you do will in the end have no lasting damage to me. A theorist has no place in a world bound by doers not thinkers, but I will not end the discussion on such appalling conditions so all I say is good luck with your life and thank you for showing me how hypocritical some can actually be. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
And now I'm off! Enjoy the weekend guys! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
Danielrjvvuren
Nothing is more important than human life.
Let this be a lesson to you little man
On that note i leave you with another cultural lesson... Mosono - direct translation... @sshole!
I cant resist I must respond one last time humans are resources to exploit like any other and your life has no consequence to me. If I must put a bullet in your head to get ahead I will. Stop being such a gay about it and just man the fu-ck up really. Humans are expandable Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Shredder
Danielrjvvuren
Moffdat
Says the one who threw the first racial slur... Ai you know you blacks always had a short term memory problem, but don't stress yourself you won't live long enough to matter. All these gay things you say... hows your boyfriend doing? I see you get hard for Bobby Motaung.
=======================================================================
LOL. You little twit, Bobby will kick your ass. Report Abuse
Aug 20, 2012
BraSipho
Fire Nathi for gross incompetence! No leave of absence and no salary or golden handshake.
There is no place for this fool. Report Abuse
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Comments
maneater
i would like to urge the minister of police to revisit the decision to ban Rubber bullets. i beleive if the poleci were to use those then the damage would have been much less!!Report Abuse
Tobby
These police are telling lies, they were not attacked, we did not see them being shot but we did see them shooting, shame to you police menReport Abuse
letsetse
Which Police are talking about ? thugs in uniformReport Abuse
MommaC
maneaterAgreed.
Nathi has to be one of the most arrogant and clueless ministers in the entire portfolio. What the hell was he thinking?
Report Abuse
hiddengold
Guys please view extract below from TimeLive to gain perspective___________________________________________________________________________________
The crowd instead formed a line and, crouching, struck their pangas and sharpened iron rods together to create a war beat. The line slowly advanced towards the police, crossing the barrier line the police had set up. The police opened fire when the strikers attacked an armoured Inyala.
They first used stun grenades and rubber bullets - but when a striker was seen pulling out a shotgun and firing at the police, the police switched to live ammunition.
After the hail of bullets - which was caught by television camera crews - only dust and gunsmoke hung in the air.
______________________________________________________
What happened yesterday was an unfortunate incident it is not only what you saw on etv last night that was the end not the beginning
Report Abuse
SOLUTIONS
maneateri would like to urge the minister of police to revisit the decision to ban Rubber bullets. i beleive if the poleci were to use those then the damage would have been much less!!
--------------------------------------------------
So our police must protect themselves with rubber bullets while the criminals are using real ammunition, I think not. a message must go out to criminals like these that the country is not going to be held hostage by savages.
Report Abuse
DJWinner
Let's see now how are our noisy opposition will use this to score some political points.Report Abuse
Stumaeza
They were not attacked - they were practicing their shooting skills on our innocent black brothersReport Abuse
DJWinner
Our condolences to all those who lost their lives.Lessons learnt from this:
People must listen to the instructions of the police.
People must not go to strikes armed. They may have weapons, but they cannot match the firepower of the police.
I believe there is nothing else that police could have done in that situation.
Since we all now have cool heads, we must now use this opportunity to reconcile and move forward as a safe nation
Report Abuse
mporoza
@ StumaezaWhat do you mean innocent? Those guys where armed, in this case the police did nothing wrong.
Report Abuse
ApelMankotsana
So our police should use rubber bullets when hooligans and thugs masquarading as employees are attacking them ? If you have watched the video from Time you will realose that those thugs were sitting on a hillock and quickly charged towards the police, breaking the barricade and attacking the hippo......So still the police were expected to use rubber bullets....Noways. These hooligans had the machetes, pangas, steel rods, steel pipes and all sorts of armaments and they have been requested to disperse since the beginning of this week, but they refused. Surely we cannot have hooligans and criminals ruling our lives......Report Abuse
Arewanga
Of cos police were attackedReport Abuse
1tsotsi
MommaCmaneater
Agreed.
Nathi has to be one of the most arrogant and clueless ministers in the entire portfolio. What the hell was he thinking?
===================
I coudnt have said it better myself, and to add to that Nathi is full of himself... Now innocent lives are lost, kids are facing life without their fathers... Are we cursed to deserve such a Minister? I'm still shocked about what happened last night, it was like watching a movie.
Report Abuse
pedi4life
@mporoza wa hlanya keng,mapodisa a swanetse ke gothuntsha batho idiot,wish they could have started with you kid. they are other means that they could have used other than killing peopleReport Abuse
SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerOur condolences to all those who lost their lives.
Lessons learnt from this:
People must listen to the instructions of the police.
People must not go to strikes armed. They may have weapons, but they cannot match the firepower of the police.
I believe there is nothing else that police could have done in that situation.
Since we all now have cool heads, we must now use this opportunity to reconcile and move forward as a safe nation
-----------------------------------
What do you know, I agree 100%
Report Abuse
mporoza
pedi4lifeCan you please share the "other means" they should have used? Let's engage, no marogana moo!!
Talk it's cheap dear, the police are also husbands, brothers, fathers and etc, their lives are also important.
Report Abuse
Sphalaphala
I dont promote what happend yesterday, my deepest condolences to all the families who lost their dads, sons, uncles.But South Africa we must learn that Police mean business, they've been there since last weekend, two Officers,two Securities and four workers were killed by their fellow workers.
Police did warn them, how can you charge at an armed TRT with pangas and 9mm pistols?
TRT is trainend for situation like that no ordinary Police can do that, i dont blame TRT for responding with life immunition.
Report Abuse
mhlupheki
my deepest condolonces to the families who have lost their loved one. i also feel feel sorry for our man in blue because earlier this week two of them died but no one ever made noise or raised a concern about them but now they have acted on their self defence there is a big noise. i saw the president of umco kneeling down begging the strikers to disperse but they refused.Report Abuse
MommaC
1tsotsiTruly. I could not believe what I was seeing.
The cops didn't have much option as there was no backup plan at all. No razor wire, no water cannons, no defensive shields .... nothing. How do they send the cops in with nothing to protect them like that?
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Danielrjvvuren
Why should things degrade to such extent? Lonmin has had such a bad time that they pulled out entirely. Guys there go's the infrastructure the technology and income to our GDP because some little union wants to fight another stupid union. Perfect African perspective, stuff what it does to the country we will fight.Report Abuse
1tsotsi
MommaC1tsotsi
Truly. I could not believe what I was seeing.
The cops didn't have much option as there was no backup plan at all. No razor wire, no water cannons, no defensive shields .... nothing. How do they send the cops in with nothing to protect them like that?
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I guess putting an incompetent Person in such a high position, will backfire... Nathi knows FOKOL, those policemen should be charged with murder, wedont need trigger happy police. I also thing Lonmin mine should be stripped its mine License.
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JeanClaude
@ Sphalaphala aka NtombenhleYou could not have said it better.
As South Africans, we must learn to exercise our rights without infringing on other people's rights.
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dmstephen
but the sound of the gun shots though you it was like fireworks damn you policemen ....mesunu ya lona enklekReport Abuse
MommaC
1tsotsiWhy? Lonmin didn't do anything wrong. It is just the playing field for the gang violence between the rival unions.
I hear that they are looking to close down production completely. The platinum price hasn't been doing well and the mine is losing a lot of money so they are looking at mothballing the SA mine. That will sort out any wage dispute. There won't be any wages TO dispute
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Danielrjvvuren
MommaCThey have shut down their SA operations as the fighting caused their shares to plummet.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2012/08/14/lonmin-halts-sa-output-after-violence-9-killed
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candilious
@Sphalaphala-My sentiments exactly .............on pointReport Abuse
dead_man_walking
@MommaCI hear that they are looking to close down production completely. The platinum price hasn't been doing well and the mine is losing a lot of money so they are looking at mothballing the SA mine. That will sort out any wage dispute. There won't be any wages TO dispute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
do you know how many people are going to be affected if Lonmin closes down? 1/4 of Rustenburg and Brits depend on Lonmin.
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lamolath
Good MorningIn south africa we have a huge problem with salary negotiations,Our unions takes bribes for signing agreements,and infact companies wants to do aways with unions....strikes does no longer have impact with the salary negotiations..
Cmpanies put business plans at time of negotiations and this thing of having two different unions in one company is dividing us.
And again if we can look,we the youth especially the educated ones,we don't take part in union's activities only our black old people does and most of them are not educated.
That is we having so much violence
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Ngiyaphapha
MommaCThe cops didn't have much option as there was no backup plan at all. No razor wire, no water cannons, no defensive shields .... nothing. How do they send the cops in with nothing to protect them like that?
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The police had all the above mentioned, this statement is flawed.
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Papage
Where are this Police from, are they Rusternburg police or what, I can't believe what i saw, shooting people like that, Minister Nathi Mthetwa must be sued and I suspect police did this to sabotage the ANC Government, there are still elements of Appartheid forces in the Police, they will do anything to disturp peace.Report Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
PapageI think unions must stripped and disbanded. This isn't government who failed to act it was the unions who failed in diplomacy don't you think?
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cornelius
Rubber bullets have been banned because they are too dangerous, so now they use live ammunition instead ! Typical ANC confused idiotic thinking. I suspect the rubber bullet ban was supposed to show that the government is responding to the tragic Andreis Tatane affair. Instead of rather improving their crowd control skills, they just come up with the stupid idea to ban rubber bullets. Those 18 lives would not have been lost with proper, effective crowd control techniques - tear gas, rubber bullets, water cannons, baton charges using shields, etc.The head of police, for failing to ensure that SAPS is properly trained for these situations, should not sleep peacefully, for these deaths lie on his head.
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Ngiyaphapha
PapageWhat do you expect a police official should do when two of his/her colleagues died from this violent protest??
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mozzi
This should have happened long ago, protesters think they can rule this country!!!Report Abuse
Fred55
A lot of different organisations and people must take blame for this disaster.1) Unions: don't come to strikw with guns, pangas and assegais and rocks. the days of violent strikes are long gone. You ran down the hill charging the police. Did you think you were an impi or war party or something? Please this is the 21st century, grow up and move into the new century. Union leaders must condemn violent strikes.
2) Police: why didn't you 1st use rubber bullets, bird shot, tear gas, water cannon??
3) Politicians: The ANCYL, tried to stoke anger, the ANC politicians kept quiet and I get the feeling this was part of a much bigger political battle between ANC and the union factions.
4) Business: were you paying the workers a fair wage?
5) Workers: were you being productive and doing your jobs or did why did you decide to go on a wild cat strike?
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Fred55
sorry, I forgot that the minister of police had recently banned rubber bullets!! What an idiot!!Report Abuse
Blackstone.lebs
Gud Morning @ ALLIt's really sad that lives got lost, in some case the only source of income. RIP to all that passed and condolences to their families....These miners have the right to protest like any other South African, but bringing along pangas, guns and all sorts of weapons to a protest is completely uncalled for. It just shows intent to commit crime, attacking the police is a criminal act and will not resolve greviances.
In any protest there will always be those with criminal intentions, it's a bad culture that needs to be guarded against at all times.
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SHEMAN
Shame Banna ba rena...It so sad indeed..They seek to escape the dangerous conditions they get inside the mines,but come across such a great disaster...REST IN PEACE...hle bathong...It so sad...I could imagine the situation...
Working in a mine is so dangerous...
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MommaC
DanielrjvvurenThanks for the link.
So they are closing ALL of their mines. Jirrie, that is going to have a huge knock on affect to the entire economy.
dead_man_walking
Well I suppose it will stop the violence for now. They will have nothing to fight over. Rustenburg had best hold on tight as this is going to affect them something HUGE
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Danielrjvvuren
Blackstone.lebsIt seems that diplomacy has failed. I am all for standing up for injustice and really would of been sympathetic to the cause if they did not have inter-union fight and bring these weapons. Are the police really all that wrong for starting to shoot? God if a mob comes my way frag grenade will be thrown in that mob. How else would a human react? Flight vs Fight hey.
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Danielrjvvuren
MommaCHow nice is that. Stuff your wage increases here is no wages for you and welcome to unemployment! Clap Clap Clap....
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Spekepeke
Black brothers killing each other WTFBlack man you on your OWN
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sabza007
@StumaezaThey were not attacked - they were practicing their shooting skills on our innocent black brothers
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My sister, those thousands of armed miners who were charging towards the police were not going to the police to give them hug or shake their hands,they were trying to ambush the police officers relying on their number...but it backfired badly!!! What about the miners who were found riddled with bullets being killed by these protesters. The security guards who were locked in the car and burned alive, what do you say about them???? These people were taking chances, trying to ambush heavily armed police !!!
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Commrade
Comrades "ECONIMIC FREEDOM" yesterdays tragedy waz something else, Ama-berete @ it again well done "Nathi" i think you Proud of your "Team" Shame on our Safety ans Secutity Department. The Union and the Mine Management Should have prevented this they should carry the blame as well.Yes, its true the guys attacted the Police but they had every right because they are fighting for whats rightfully theirs a decent "SALARY" to take care of their FAMILIES. Comrades Mines are making hell lot of MONEY then what difficult for them to pay the People and carry with the mine oporations.
well again if the Youth League ntervene again they will blame us for miss leading the people. this clearly shows we still far from getting close to ECONOMIC FREEDOM. Comrades are free or are we oppressed by our own Government. Condolences to the Families who lost their loved one in yesterdays shooting.
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Pula
Some people think with their toes, uyazi like PAPAGE, and this are people who thing that they can wield their pangas at police, and expect the police to treat them with child gloves.Report Abuse
Kabelo10
The police did what you and i could have done too. They too afraid of their lives, those strikers were armed with short guns and pangas. Let's not pin point on the police as if they are the bad samaritans, the police were in self defence. PEACEReport Abuse
Commrade
@Mporoza SHAME on you Chief............"Police did nothing wrong" clearly you enjoy the prutal killing of our own people by our own Satety Department who should be protecting us. the Protesters where not supposed to be armed by they didnt deserve what happened.@Sabza007 what about the Mine Management and the so called Union...? So are we saying they did nothing wrong as all FINGERS are pointing at one direction.
Comrades please we still believe this could have being prevented from day when things got out of hands. they should have at least promised something better even if it was not going to happen at once but at least something to get the situstion better. but NO those People according to the Comrades they were not supposed to fight for whats wrightfully believed to be owed to them.
Comrdes POWER TO THE PEOPLE not bullets to our people.
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KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
The way those protesters were armed I could have protected my life too by shooting at them becauase when they get to you they make sure that your body left lifeless,i dont blame police.Report Abuse
Papage
Batswana! ka ditlhobolo le mefaka e mekima!!!!! No ways, are those people from the area or foreighners, I think many are Zulus, they carry such weapons, not Tswanas, Batswana ke makwalaReport Abuse
Blackstone.lebs
@Fred554) Business: were you paying the workers a fair wage?
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Lonmin reported that there's a wage agreement in place until next year, agreed to by all unions on the bargaining forum...the wages could still be low yes, but unions have another shot at negotiating again next year.
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Lehido
Fight fire with fire...Shoot their arsesReport Abuse
ILTAK
thnx mporoza 4 ur suprt lt dm tlk nd we wil contur shootngReport Abuse
MommaC
DanielrjvvurenSeems like someone thinks that 'no loaf' is actually better than half of one.
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face !
Now it is suddenly Lonmin's fault? The wage issue didn't even come up until the third week of the violence. It is purely a turf war between rival gangs (unions).
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Commrade
@DJWinner, BOSO believe you me this has nothing to do with Politics. Politics of nie Politics... all Political Parties should intervene in whats happening down there, those mine manages should be are shamed of themselves. they driving big cars living large and they dont care about the people who are making it possible for them to leave the life's they living at present.DJWinner i understand your arguement but these has nothing to do with political points. we should work jointly to get to the solution we dont need more killing of our own people by our own people.
Comrades can i be honest with you all, believe it or not the "WHITES" are enjoying what "BLACK" people are doing to themseves.........
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Mpharane
This should be a lesson to those who like to use violence in the name of rights. And those who are power hungry. The police were protecting themselves. South Africans stop being used. If you are power, it doesn't mean you can be used by the people who power hungry.Report Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
MommaCThis is what I am not understanding... Am I missing something here? Why is everyone blaming the mine? They are upholding their part of the bargain struck last year at the workshop. Then the unions turn up and decide: "fu9k that, we going to insight violence break down infrastructure and halt productivity so that the mine share drops with 5points then demand an increase!" Now call me radical thinker, but if I was Lonmin I would also book out as soon as possible.
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Naivegirl
@CommradeThe police are part of "your own people". Just because a young man decides to follow a career in the police service doesn't mean that he now all of a sudden is the enemy with "apartheid tactics".
What is it with this them and us mentality?
Lastly - the citizens of SA should start listening to the police. They are the authority. They are not there to negotiate the law. They are there to uphold it. If you engage in unlawfull activities you should feel the full extent of the law. Make peace with it then things like yesterday will not happen.
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MarriedMan
Education is verry important. Muti people perform magic to convince u that a bullet will not penetrate u. But who r u gonne tell when u r dead? Anyways wht do u expect if u bring weapons to a strike and charge at the police. Condolenses to all the families that have lost loved ones.Report Abuse
BraSteve
Funny how people go on strike and march carrying weapons, and sometimes even go looting, stone passing cars and claim they were "marching peacefully"Report Abuse
Blackstone.lebs
@Naivegirl...They are not there to negotiate the law. They are there to uphold it. If you engage in unlawfull activities you should feel the full extent of the law. Make peace with it...
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Spot on!
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MommaC
DanielrjvvurenThis all started when NUM did the negotiations and left the rock drillers out of the package. There was already this new union who is doing well at poaching NUM members (Num is down from 66% to 45% representation). The rock drillers then decided that they would speak directly to management. Management agreed and NUM went ballistic about it. The other union approached the rock drillers and THAT is when the violence started.
The problem is that this doesn't only impact on Lonmin, it is affecting the entire foreign confidence in the country. Everything is going to be affected by the perception that we are an unstable country. They have to sort it out soon or this will become a huge spiralling mess
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Popeye
I wonder why only Black people strike…where were white miners during the shooting? We need to stick together like glue as Africans…I don’t care who was right or wrong…cause killing each other will never solve the problem…Mzantsi omuhle…as Blacks, we are not free to live…let us free our mind and the rest will follow. May the souls of the decease RIP. Let us pray…amen.Report Abuse
ILTAK
pls am a police lady nd i love my job nd i am a human bng so stop hrtng our fillngs coz u mk us 2 hte u wesReport Abuse
Blackstone.lebs
The line between protesting and committing crime is very clear. If you go on strike then start beating up colleagues, damaging property, threating non-striking members you're no longer a protester you are criminal and should face the might of the law, period!Report Abuse
MommaC
ILTAKWould you like to buy a vowel?
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BlackCurrent
@Popeye, white miners? you're not serious, right?About the police, every job comes with responsibilities, hazzards, perks and everything else... just a thought.
About the "armed and dangerous" strikers... I'd think by now we all know that violence doesn't solve anything... all it does it cause hurt, death and heartache!
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Ass-eater
@ Tobby, you right, you didnt see police being attacked because you only watch etv, watch real news and comment with facts, those miners were heavely armed with spears, guns etc, police only fired live bulllets after the crownd of thug miners cross the bearer line, it was self defence from saps, i blame the bloody union for this shed of innocent blood, you tell the guys that they worth R12500,00 for digging a whole,bloody traitors.Report Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
MommaCI was about to say the same... Good God what is that? VOWELS are your FRIEND! The effects this is going to have on our GDP is huge, Lonmin is the 3rd biggest platinum mine in the world we can not afford to lose them and we just did. We will have to see the difference in next years mining figures and the workout on our economy. People have a lack of forecasting sight. They see only the now and not the long term degradation we are going to have now. It is sad news indeed.
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McCountryMan
Ke Mzansi le podisa la legowa le tla tunya, i still thinking that the was a better way of handling this.Report Abuse
Ncedomb
I believe there was a shooting between the miners and the police, but because police are trained to shoot then they were more powerfull. who was suporse to die? no one wants to die so everyone must protect him or her self. the lives of those police who were killed by the miners is as important as the miners who died yesterday.Report Abuse
SharpSharp
Police shoooooot to protect yourselfs.....Labourers do negotiate not what is happening ko marikana...Those are thugssss, so shhhooot and shoooot till they giveup.Report Abuse
Lojech1
when you go to a Sangoma you are given (intelezi) with a promise that you can stand anything, even a bullet will not penetrate. a person becomes un controlable, thinking he can stand anything that comes his way and Consequences becomes severe after that, who was suppose to die when being attacked, the miners or police officers.Report Abuse
SharpSharp
DanielrjvvurenWhen you always talk about money even when ppl's live are in danger why????????? jaa nee
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Commrade
@Naivegirl yes indeed the Police are our own people. i dont remember saying they were not our own people. again i quote "apartheid tactics" i dont know anything about that may be you can teach me a thing or two right there!!! this has nothing to do with Politics like i said and i will continue to say this we "Black Nation" are killing ourselves of course with the help of the so called Government of our.Lastly, Naivegirl the Employers should think of their Employees. number one have you being underground...? probably not have you seing a person whom a rock has felled on..? i dont think so!!! let me tell you most of this mine bosses have never ever being underground you know "why'" becuase its tough down there....dont tell me about the police. did you see how our Policekilled Andries Tatane...? did he have a weapon on him when he was brutally killed. please dont tell me about the POLICE i lost respect for them many many years before you were born.
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Papage
During our times we would start burning police homes now and chasing them out of the Township, you dont murder people you police them, have you seen how America control such violent situations? what is wrong with our Police? I think I will dig up my AK47Report Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
SharpSharpBecause in the end your life to me as a business student is walking rands and cents. Humans are just a resource to use, but if you followed the discussion further you would see we have already discussed the human element and moved on the implication to our economy, but you who has come in much later reads only what you want thus your argument is not just invalid but really ignorant.
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MommaC
SharpSharpAre you REALLY that short sighted?
I would estimate that 90% of the problems we have in SA are due to unemployment being so high. Now how is ignoring the effect of this on the economy going to solve that problem? It isn't. All it is going to do is make it worse.
This vicious 'war' doesn't only affect the miners and Lonmin, it affects every aspect of our economy. In other words a violent turf war between thugs who call themselves 'unions' is going to cost us many more lives. Is that REALLY what you want?
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MommaC
DanielrjvvurenKeeping my eye on the Rand and the Market Indicators. I don't see this ending well unless it is resolved VERY quickly.
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SharpSharp
CommradeThe role of Public Order Police (POP) in South Africa is mandated by section 205(3) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996, which determines that the main functions of the Service are inter alia to maintain public order, protect and secure the inhabitants of South Africa and their property, and to uphold and enforce the law.
So if you act unlawfully the police are mandated to uphold order...What happened yesterday it was the other way of upholding order... It is not the problem of the police if mine owners dont go underfround workers dont have the right to take out thier anger on to police...As the citizen of SA they must respect the law...
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Danielrjvvuren
MommaCIt might just cause a bit of a hick up or might be worse? It will be interesting to see how this works out, but one thing I can say is invest in platinum in other countries or de-invest in platinum in South Africa.
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Sharks
It's sad that it got to end this way bt I can't blame the police on friday they used the nice approached to dispersed the crowd and wat happened to them, they were killed by the same crowd carrying all those traditional weapons bt Vavi, Anc, DA and IPID said nothing. This could have been resolved early by all these people I mentioned hereReport Abuse
LBS
@CommradeComrades can i be honest with you all, believe it or not the "WHITES" are enjoying what "BLACK" people are doing to themseves.........
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YOU are racist and stupid to boot!!
Whites are NOT enjoying this at all, but we ARE amazed that (some) blacks continue to allow themselves to be manipulated to serve the agenda of selfserving people, be they union bosses or political parties.
What happened was not a staged scene in a movie, but a tragedy - one of too many to date.
The belief that many of the miners held was that they were immune to death because of some 'muthi ceremony' performed on them is downright frightening in this day and age.
They were misled and used by their unions as usual.
The police IMHO were within their rights to protect themselves in whatever way possible - faced with armed men on the rampage, what would you have done?
My sympathy to the families of all who died unnecessarily.
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MommaC
DanielrjvvurenWell selling now would be a bit silly. If anyone has Lonmin shares at the moment, they should just hang on and hope or take one hell of a knock.
First it was Implats and now Lonmin. How long before it spreads to the other mines? The guys in gold are becoming very jumpy about this.
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missteeque
the number of illiterate people commenting on this is ridiculous! we still have a long way to go as people! the damn thugs shot first for heaven's sake! killing 2 police men! rubber bullets against live ammunition r u kidding me? we r so quick to point fingers when we r ignorant fools! read all the articles related to this instead of commenting on what u saw on e news yesterday! learn to READ before u come up on such platforms revealing ur ignorance!!!! this is indeed heartbreaking but what were the police men to do? what they were trained to do!Report Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
MommaCLets just stay away from investing in minerals and go Barloworld. Hear they just hit a nice contract with Unilever with the new warehouse in PMB. Going to be a nice investment but more longterm investment. Only really pay off in about 10 years/
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Shredder
Sowetan has got an article on this tragic incident in 3 places, now where do they expect us to comment? why not make it one article or if they do have it on 3 places, block comments on 2 and open it on 1?Report Abuse
SharpSharp
MommaCWhat i am saying is simple this Daniel always talk about money no matter what happened...Anyway it is your view i am not gonna stand against that but i was just saying ppl who think about money when ppl are dying are...
It is like when you drive company car and get accident the first question they are asking is that is the car ok before checking on u. I know that cars in company do contribute to the growth of the company but the question is ist neccessary to check on the car first before your employee....
@Danny i heard what u said you did pass the stage of analyising human resources but u are always obsessed with finances anyway thats your field keep it up...You must be careful dont talk too much about money when ppl are dyinggg u will be killeddddd..
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Danielrjvvuren
ShredderI'm having that same first world problem! hahah where to respond to... hahaha
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Shredder
SharpSharp@Danny i heard what u said you did pass the stage of analyising human resources but u are always obsessed with finances anyway thats your field keep it up...You must be careful dont talk too much about money when ppl are dyinggg u will be killeddddd..
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Tell him SharpSharp tell him. Hihihihihi
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Danielrjvvuren
SharpSharpAs I am with money you are with death threats. It is just that we already spoken about it and money is what drives us all, and in the end makes us drive our lives forward so yes I talk about money because that is what I chose to educate myself in and what I do, so you can take your threats and try it in someone who will actually be afraid of you.
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Danielrjvvuren
SharpSharpAnd your life is no consequence of me? If you costing me money then you will be let off. People die everyday the world doesn't stand still for some fools attacking people with semi automatic weapons...
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Naivegirl
@Commrade"Comrades please we still believe this could have being prevented from day when things got out of hands."
You could just as easily put this at the feet of the protesters. They could've prevented it!
But it got out of hand and not at the hands of the police. The protesters burned a security guard alive, killed workers that wanted to work and shot dead two policemen. In the meantime the police called for calm several times. The protesters proceeded to storm the police with weapons and actually shooting at them.
When and under what circumstances in your opinion would it have been acceptable for the police to retaliate? When one/two/three more police officers were killed? When more workers were killed?
I am not very bright but I know 100% for sure if i storm a police officer with a panga/gun/knife I will for sure be shot.
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Sipho2001
African’s lives will always be cheap as long as they behave irresponsibly. There is an attitude amongst Africans that your actions have no repercussions.- The miners behaved irresponsibly. You Can’t demand a 300% wage increase it simply does not work. The mine would no longer be profitable and shut down. Then what? You don’t even get your R4000. If you don’t like the R4000 you can quit anytime. Secondly you can’t strike using violence.
- The unions and the union bosses behaved irresponsible. They can be blamed for this bloodshed. They incited the violence and are more guilty than the cops that pulled the trigger. I wonder if they really care about the dead?
- The current government took no leadership on this matter. There had already been scenes of violence. Where was the ANC leadership? They allowed a powder keg to build up. Our president has no backbone.
- Us as the people who voted for a weak man who we knew was corrupt. Us the people who supported a rabid hyena like Malema who stirred up some anti mining sentiment. We need to learn that it is important to vote responsibly. I think many of us supported Malema/Zuma just to p1ss of the wh1teys. How can we chuck away our votes on the undeserving?
The police getting the blame is ridiculous. All of the above
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Shredder
@DanielrjvvurenSharpSharp
As I am with money you are with death threats. It is just that we already spoken about it and money is what drives us all, and in the end makes us drive our lives forward so yes I talk about money because that is what I chose to educate myself in and what I do, so you can take your threats and try it in someone who will actually be afraid of you.
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He is not threatening you, only asking why you are obsessed with money :-D
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MommaC
SharpSharpThere is only so long that you can be in shock about something this horrific before you start looking at the ramifications.
This isn't only about these men dying or the money or even the mine. It is about the confidence in the stability of our country. That confidence affects both from external and internal perception. It also affects the country's behaviour. Should this method of 'recruitment' for unions become rife over a broad spectrum of industry, our country will descend into chaos. The rule of law will go out the window and the law of the jungle will prevail. Of course that is the worst case scenario and one that is unlikely to happen BUT it has to be looked at so that situations like this don't become common, every day occurrences and we don't bury 30 odd people every time two unions decide to have an argument
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SharpSharp
DanielrjvvurenYou are a smallboy u cant do anything .....hahahahahahahahahaha Danny dont worry bafana i was just saying no big threats. It shows that even if someone close to u die first thing for sho u are going to check if she/he is on your funeral covers.... Chose to educate your self on the expense of dying ppl....iesh let me stop
The situation in that place need through investigations...How can members of other unions dont listen to there leaders...What is it that they promised them...Who is behind all this, actually who brought sangoma ....
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MommaC
Danielrjvvuren:) luckily, I don't have any money to gamble on the stock exchange with.
Long term can be tricky. The world is a dynamic place and what looks good today can look pretty sad next week - just ask Lonmin shareholders
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Shredder
@SharpSharpDanielrjvvuren
You are a smallboy u cant do anything .....
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Hahahaha, with Juju's voice of course.
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Chichi7
In all of this blame to the police, people have forgotten the innocent lives that were killed by these miners. They burnt 2 people in a car and now look at more blood shed that could have been avoided.Report Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
ShredderBecause being a Master student in the Marketing Field at the University Of Kwazulu-Natal I am thought to be all about the money. I have always been financially inclined. For me 16 I did not ask for presents or a party I asked for money to invest, same for my 18th and 21st. Unlike you I will be retired at the age of 30 to enjoy my life. Work hard now play hard later. Everything has a working on the market and having invested so much time in the market lives have become tools to make more money. Thus the loss of life leads to an indirect effect on my investments and this is what MommaC and myself have been discussing. Does that clear things up?
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Moffdat
@Daniel and MommaCDon't you just hate know it alls???
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TIREDOFCRIME
It is really bad that something like this happen. But you don't go on a strike and arm yourself as these guys did. At least they get their pay every month. That's more that could be said about the mine in Springs etc that stripped it and didn't pay their workers for how long and that is run by Black's. Funny that the unions haven't said anything about that. The unions are just filling their pockets and don't care about the worker. Cut their salaries to the same amount as the workers and see how they are going to react. Unions would rather use violence to attract members than use civilized methods to gain members. That is something I have experienced since I was a young guy. Black people seems or rather a lot of Black people would first resort to violence before trying to resolve the issue at hand in a peaceful manner. If more politician/union bosses promote peaceful civil events a lot more will get done. But then they will lose support to the more violent groupsReport Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
SharpSharpIts a dog eat dog world and this small boy has learned it a long time ago my friend so I your corps is in my way I will walk over it to get where I want to be.
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Danielrjvvuren
*If your corpsReport Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
great I can't even spell today corpse!!!!!!Report Abuse
MommaC
MoffdatNot really. As long as they do know something, they are valuable learning tools.
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Danielrjvvuren
MoffdatThey do hinder me a bit, but it is interesting to get the flipside of the coin. I might sometimes be too cold and calculating, but they now know why I am like that and helped them understand. The banter we throw around is normal and all will be fine by the time we move along.
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SharpSharp
ShredderWena shredder mara...kikikiki
Dan
As i said before this world is funny, ppl look at it differently, go on and shine good luck ......... Bye Bye....talk later....
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Danielrjvvuren
SharpSharpCheers man be safe this weekend ne! Condom, no drinking and driving and hey! I want to see you back on Monday. Have a good one man
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Shredder
@DanielrjvvurenShredder
Because being a Master student in the Marketing Field at the University Of Kwazulu-Natal I am thought to be all about the money. I have always been financially inclined. For me 16 I did not ask for presents or a party I asked for money to invest, same for my 18th and 21st. Unlike you I will be retired at the age of 30 to enjoy my life.
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Wait wait wait. UNLIKE ME? Hold it right there .
Anyway, good for you. Retire at 30 as you say and enjoy your money. You are a miracle.
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Danielrjvvuren
ShredderWhat is your plan for the future? Are you over or under 30? I bet you are thinking middle to upper management? I am thinking about board of directorships large investments in property(already have 2) and international investments. That is what I am getting at.
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hiddengold
@sabza007@Stumaeza
They were not attacked - they were practicing their shooting skills on our innocent black brothers
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My sister, those thousands of armed miners who were charging towards the police were not going to the police to give them hug or shake their hands,they were trying to ambush the police officers relying on their number...but it backfired badly!!! What about the miners who were found riddled with bullets being killed by these protesters. The security guards who were locked in the car and burned alive, what do you say about them???? These people were taking chances, trying to ambush heavily armed police !!!
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On point my brother
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Moffdat
@Daniel and MommaCI was talking about the two of you. 30 Lives have been lost and all the two of you can talk about are crests and throughs, Mid-long term investments. Know it alls...
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hiddengold
@Papage
Batswana! ka ditlhobolo le mefaka e mekima!!!!! No ways, are those people from the area or foreighners, I think many are Zulus, they carry such weapons, not Tswanas, Batswana ke makwala
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Z.U.L.U.S always blamed for everything next we will be blamed for glabal warming or the European crisis
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Danielrjvvuren
MoffdatI thought so. 30 lives have been lost due to stupidity. Pure and utter stupidity. *crest and troughs no "h" and as previously stated in one of the other threads we dealt with the human factor we just naturally progressed to this point. But please do make more ambiguous statements I just love it.
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Moffdat
DanielrjvvurenFaking intellegence is one thing kid but being an ignorant,selfish person is another.
You my friend are both and proud of it. Proves you're an idiot!!!
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Shredder
Hihihihihi, you really are 24 years old.Report Abuse
MommaC
MoffdatWhat happens today impacts on what happens tomorrow.
That isn't being a 'know it all' it is being practical. Maybe if those miners had thought about the consequence of their actions then there wouldn't be 36 families left broken by this.
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Danielrjvvuren
MoffdatRather a rich idiot than a poor fool. Ignorant no, selfish yes are we not all. The word you are looking for is a bigot but its alright if you do not know the word. Thank you so much for being an armchair activist, because you of all people random stranger called Moffdat has showed me the errors of my ways I will relinquish all my worldly possessions and be a monk... Now call me sarcastic and more names it so bruises my ego.......
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tasvika
watch the video and U WILL SEE THAT THE OFFICERS COMMANDING THE SHOOTING ARE ALL WHITES !!!!!!! WAKE UP SOUTH AFRICA!!!!!!!!!!Report Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
ShredderI am what of it? 6 years to accumulate more capital.
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MommaC
tasvikaLIAR ! LIAR ! LIAR !
.... see, I can be rude and shout too.
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Moffdat
DanielrjvvurenYou know when you talk through your @ss cowlick you really stink up the place.
Go back and read the first comment i was not calling you a bigot(extremist, hypocrite etc)
I was calling you an idiot!!!
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Shredder
@tasvikawatch the video and U WILL SEE THAT THE OFFICERS COMMANDING THE SHOOTING ARE ALL WHITES !!!!!!! WAKE UP SOUTH AFRICA!!!!!!!!!!
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Agg not this racist card again. Even if they were black. I can't think of any other way it could have been prevented. Those policeman had to defend themselves.
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UKUFA!
If you choose to live by the sword you will die by the sword.Report Abuse
Shredder
@MommaCtasvika
LIAR ! LIAR ! LIAR !
.... see, I can be rude and shout too.
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Have you seen the video in youtube? Neither did I ;-D
I only saw it in the news. I will watch the video in youtube. I hear that it shows more than on TV. The problem with youtube is that is full of white racists :-D and it is just unbearable to read their comments.
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Danielrjvvuren
MoffdatNo just not my ego, it bruises so easily, Moffdat my poor poor delusional Moffdat, I'm trolling you so bad and you have moved from debating with your logic to debating with feelings showing the African disposition we all face and what happened at the mines too, people did not get their way and emotions took charge SA responds with a tactical police force who was forced to open fire and Africa responds with feelings. You are proving my right every step of the way.
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Moffdat
DanielrjvvurenToo bad i can't know your identity. Chances are i'm arguing with a secretary, PA administrative clerk or something like that. They are always the ones trying to sound smart around the office!!!
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Danielrjvvuren
MoffdatYour talking to a 24 year old white student from UKZN sitting at home on his computer. Again shows me that you actually do not know anything... Please go on.
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MommaC
ShredderDoubt that tasvika had seen it either :)
The desperation with which some people try to get attention is irritating. Why turn it into a race riot? Not like that will suddenly make time go backwards and people not get shot
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Shredder
MommaCShredder
Doubt that tasvika had seen it either :)
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I only saw one policeman, we don't even know whether he was a commanding officer or what. Besides, even if he was not, that incident was inevitable given the situation at that moment. Tasvika is only pouring oil on flames.
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Moffdat
@DanielYou are proving my right every step of the way.
Ever heard of rules of syntax!!!! Go back and read your comments, on the other articles as well. It's riddled with spelling mistakes, i wasn't going to say anything until you started running your mouth and putting money above peoples lives.
You know what's worse than a capitalist???
A wannabe capitalist!
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Danielrjvvuren
Look in the end the loss of life is unnecessary and whom ever is responsible must be held accountable to the utmost of the law, it is sad that 36+ families have lost not only sole breadwinner, but father and loved ones. Investigation needs to be done to see who is to be booked but I am of the opinion that it is the unions. As a result of this economical, and you can see here on Sowetan, platinums price has shot up because of the riots. Does that cover all the bases?Report Abuse
Shredder
@Moffdat@Daniel
You are proving my right every step of the way.
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Daniel is 24 years old; he's got lots of energy. You won't go anywhere with this argument ;-D
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Danielrjvvuren
MoffdatYou are following the classical case of loss of argument, if you have no argument left you attack the person, if that fails you attack his spelling and grammar, and please I implore you to show me said mistakes I would love to know it and correct the mistake. You know what is worse than an random stranger trying to put you down? One that fails in that very task.
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Danielrjvvuren
ShredderHelps if you sleep till 10 haha students life is great, but going to end sometime.
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MommaC
Moffdat@Daniel
You are proving my right every step of the way.
Ever heard of rules of syntax!!!!
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LOL
If you are going to pull someone up on their use of the English language, it is always a good idea to proof read your comment before pushing the 'submit' button.
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Danielrjvvuren
ShredderAnd don't spoil my fun! He is very entertaining!
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Moffdat
@DanielYou seem to be coming around! Next time use your brain when you type and not your sausage!!
You ignoramus!!!!! You don't have to be in his presence to sell your soul to him.
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Danielrjvvuren
ShredderAnd duuudddeee if you want to start investing get that FNB investment trader for R200 you can start hands on investment, I have a feeling you will do well at it. I sound like an FNB steve rep.
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Moffdat
@MommaCgo read our submissions again. I was calling him out! Support your ignorance all you want i'm probably richer than all of you combined so the next time you want to talk money over lives. Back it up with some ZAR
p.s. I'm not playing with you i'm playing with the kid from KZN who thinks money can buy manners.
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Moffdat
@ShredderMy typist is 24 she loves talking about things she doesn't understand either!!! lol
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MommaC
Moffdat"You are proving my right every step of the way. "
It is 'me' not 'my' that should have been used in that sentence. Hence my mirth.
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Danielrjvvuren
MommaCJammer ne maar ek het daai een gese... That is my mistake, but that is highness did not see that or fix it is perplexing hey
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Shredder
MommaC - Sometimes "my" is pronounced as "me" you know? Words like yummy, dummy comes to my mind you know what I mean. ;-DReport Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
He was proving my right, as a human being, every step of the way? HahahaReport Abuse
Shredder
MommaC - Oh no! I did it as well :-DReport Abuse
MommaC
LOLDyslexics have more fnu :)
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Danielrjvvuren
If life gives you melons you might be dyslexicReport Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
Dyslexics of the world Untie!Report Abuse
Moffdat
MommaCI was showing him his mistake... one of the many!
Daniel
Just when i thought you were coming around you go and say something stupid. Do you know what nnyam mmao means? ...No?
It's a slure, directed at a person whose mother brought a piece of shhhh.... into the world! So
nnyam mmao!!!! Not because i don't like you, for all i know you're a wonderful person (i doubt it) but because you have no respect for human life!
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Moffdat
ShredderKwena mang Charlie. Ke sa sorta mosono wa nwana o bareng ke Danielrjvvuren
When i'm done you'll get your turn...
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Danielrjvvuren
MoffdatThank you random stranger with whom I will never share a common goal with. You will find many people who have a disregard for human life as we all strife to improve ourselves and family not other people, but you are right o saintly man from the office unknown! Stultior stulto fuisti, qui tabellis crederes in the end....
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Danielrjvvuren
Another one from yesteryears Stultus est sicut stultus facitReport Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
MoffdatWould it surprise you to know that I am also not religious at all? You know that might just explain my anarchy? Haha you've lost your entertainment value.... Not fun anymore.
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Moffdat
DanielrjvvurenThose latin quotes aren't going to get you anywhere kid I'm doing my masters in jurisprudence!!! Go try one of those sharks cheerleaders... oh i forgot you can't cause you're a nobody!!! lol
We may be the same age you and i but talk about light years...
In all summation i don't know who you racing, i'm already at the finish line with the flag waving!!!!!
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Danielrjvvuren
MoffdatClap clap clap shows over you bore me. You were entertaining, but now not so much. Great the theorist... No wonder your so self entitled. All words and no action is what I'm getting. Bored now...
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Danielrjvvuren
*you'reReport Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
as in No wonder you're so self entitledReport Abuse
Moffdat
DanielrjvvurenLetting Allan Gray, FNB, Investec, Alexander Forbes manage your portfolio doesn't make you an investment Guru kid! Respecting molla above anything else is a sure fire way to lose your self respect.
I mean you've already lost your mind, you're 24 and still at University, you're a white male in South Africa, you have a small p@nis, brain and attention span. Now ask yourself... can you afford to loose anything else???
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Clie414
I think the police are lying. Why there is no comment from the other party.Report Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
MoffdatSo enlightening please continue with your dull theories, they have the masses entertained... *yourself
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Danielrjvvuren
MoffdatHave I not told you I'm done with you? Discarded like yesterdays news paper you hold no value, you bore me go and entertain you delusions of grandeur
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Moffdat
DanielrjvvurenNow that you understand what nnyang mmao means i feel obliged to take you on another cultural journey kiddo!!!! Marete agu... when directly translated it means your balls but since you don't have any you have nothing to worry about. However i will be good for goodness sake so... marete agu
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Danielrjvvuren
MoffdatYou have loads of time for a successful man to be talking about a 24 year olds balls. Might even be that you like balls. I'm getting that vibe from you. You like men? You go on like a little bitch.
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Shredder
hihihihiMoffdat, you insult Daniel politely; explaining what the words mean in English, hihihihi.
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Danielrjvvuren
Moffdat@TheRealHumanIsBlack
Do you have an Aston Martin, lambo etc.
Shut the f@ck up and stop hating. Why don't you hate on yourself for hating... HATER!!!!!
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Your elocution here is just staggering...
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Moffdat
DanielrjvvurenWe may be the same age kid but you don't wanna start talking about balls kid. It would take your whole ancestry for you to fit into mine... Talking about bitches, how's your mama???
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Danielrjvvuren
MoffdatHow does it feel to know that my grandfather mowed through your ancestry with an automatic rifle at sharpville and in klerksdorp. So you do not deny you like balls... Makes sense such an obsession is unhealthy better go see someone about that...
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Moffdat
DanielrjvvurenRacial slures now now now Daniel we know you're better than that. I know your grandfather didn't do that cause the garden boy James was bending him over
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Danielrjvvuren
MoffdatSays the one who threw the first racial slur... Ai you know you blacks always had a short term memory problem, but don't stress yourself you won't live long enough to matter. All these gay things you say... hows your boyfriend doing? I see you get hard for Bobby Motaung.
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Moffdat
Shredderhihihihi
Moffdat, you insult Daniel politely; explaining what the words mean in English, hihihihi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Everyone has the right to some culture. I'm just shoving his head up his @ss so he can see sh@!t clearly.
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Danielrjvvuren
Okay this was great fun, but I'm over it now. I have to actually do stuff today.Moffdat
Thank you for the discussion man, I am a 24 year old born German emigrated here student. I have some capital, but thats also because the Euro was so strong and invested wisely. But besides that man have a great weekend man. Be safe. Don't squander to much of your wealth this weekend!
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Moffdat
DanielWhen did i say something racist. Me haai khona
How can i be racist when i'm sleeping with your mother... she gives the best head ever *rolling my eyes*
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Danielrjvvuren
I say again... Your words are but empty shells on my ears. What you say and what you do will in the end have no lasting damage to me. A theorist has no place in a world bound by doers not thinkers, but I will not end the discussion on such appalling conditions so all I say is good luck with your life and thank you for showing me how hypocritical some can actually be.Report Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
And now I'm off! Enjoy the weekend guys!Report Abuse
Moffdat
DanielrjvvurenNothing is more important than human life.
Let this be a lesson to you little man
On that note i leave you with another cultural lesson... Mosono - direct translation... @sshole!
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Danielrjvvuren
I cant resist I must respond one last time humans are resources to exploit like any other and your life has no consequence to me. If I must put a bullet in your head to get ahead I will. Stop being such a gay about it and just man the fu-ck up really. Humans are expandableReport Abuse
Shredder
DanielrjvvurenMoffdat
Says the one who threw the first racial slur... Ai you know you blacks always had a short term memory problem, but don't stress yourself you won't live long enough to matter. All these gay things you say... hows your boyfriend doing? I see you get hard for Bobby Motaung.
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LOL. You little twit, Bobby will kick your ass.
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BraSipho
Fire Nathi for gross incompetence! No leave of absence and no salary or golden handshake.There is no place for this fool.
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