Papage

In whose side are you Mr Mbeki, why don't you help the party?
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MissBhakajuju

wait 4 the Misilles from Luthuli House, from the d.oom commanders Gwede, Shawara, Baleka........ the ones that were called to order by the Afrikaaners, this week.


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1tsotsi

I agree, with the rate that its going under jacob zuma it will. Now lets here gwede attack Mbeki calling him a counter-revolutionary, thats what he knows best.
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1tsotsi

MissBhakajuju
wait 4 the Misilles from Luthuli House, from the d.oom commanders Gwede, Shawara, Baleka........ the ones that were called to order by the Afrikaaners, this week.
===========
You forgot to mention the drunken master Mthembu, im sure that now he still sipping his smirnoff then he will unleash!!!
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tsayaya

there goes another one sprinkling the vampire (anc) with holy water, now watch it gets mad Baberbek Mthembu, Dogbreath Mantashe, Doubleheadedmonster Majaevane, etc
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mychief

As much as I respect you Mr Mbeki, but I think your hatred for the current ANC leadership clouds your judgement. You have in the past predicted things which never really happened. e.g. predicting the outcome of Polokwane Conference. You may still be bitter regarding what happened to comrade Thabo, even Thabo has moved on, not being forever held by the Polokwane changes. I don't think it is useful to use such platforms to attack the ANC. If you have issues with the ANC, I suggest you approach Luthuli House and raise your concerns. I don't think they will refuse to listen to your concerns. But this PR exercise you are doing is not helping anybody.
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tsayaya

Pigface Nzimande, Dentalformula Motshekga, Hornygoat Maharaj
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ProgressiveAfricanDemocrat

Moeletsi Mbeki is more ANC than Gwede Mantashe and Mantashe is a Johnny-come-lately to the ANC whereas Moeletsi was born in the ANC, wore ANC diapers long before Mantashe could spell the A in the ANC. However, I think Moeletsi is only looking at one scenario, there other possible scenarios which may well leave the ANC in power. If the ANC gets rid of Zuma in Mangaung, it would have added more than 10 years to its life. If the man from Nkandla comes in, the Day of Reckoning will be much earlier than the 2 or 3 decades or so that Moeletsi is musing about.
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The-Rothschilds

Told you guys that the majority of voters that vote the ANC vote ANC because of social grants. It has nothing to do with Helen Zille calling education pupils refugees.

Its all about who fits the bill at the end of the month, the ANC voter could not care less what is said by what politician. If anything, rhetoric by politicians mostly effect the middle and upper classes, which makes sense because often rhetoric from government turns into donations from the private sector.
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MissBhakajuju

@1tsotsi

kwaaaaaaakwaaaaakwaaaakwaaaaakwaaaaaaa...... LOL
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Wordoftruth

Mr Mbeki's assertion that the ANC is put in power by the poor is true. But what he forgets to mention is that for those poor people's social grants to be sustainable, they should be subsidized by a healthy tax revenue base in the country (which is the middle, working and rich class) and overseas investments.

Flowing from that line of thinking, it therefore means that it would not make sense for the ANC to disregard the middle/working/rich class for which it depends on to fund the poor's social grants (as well as the government/ruling class itself).

All the ANC needs now and which is evidently glaring as a void, is to have a smart strategist in its leadership core in order to make sure that the party does not get into extinct or hand over power to the likes of the DA (-God forbid-).
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The-Rothschilds

But on the other hand, i wonder if this Mbeki is not sour because Zuma took out Mbeki!
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Shredder

@Papage
In whose side are you Mr Mbeki, why don't you help the party?
==============================================================================
He can't help the party. They are happy the way they are operating and they don't want to hear people say they are failing.
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Shredder

@The-Rothschilds
But on the other hand, i wonder if this Mbeki is not sour because Zuma took out Mbeki!
===============================================================================
That is also possible, but Thibo Touch has moved on.
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Kenthotsabatho

The Auditor General has already sounded the warning bells, Reuel Khoza did the same and he was shouted downd from the dithering heights! Vavi is also critical about the state of our government. What next? Moeletsi, you are spot on. We'll watching this space....
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Bra007

If your brother was the still the president would you have said that???
Shame on you, no more tenders coming to your family now

FULL OF ANGER Brat, Nxa!!! who likes you anyway, we expected that to come out of your mouth coz your bro was kicked out!!!
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MissBhakajuju

The-Rothschilds
But on the other hand, i wonder if this Mbeki is not sour because Zuma took out Mbeki!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i guess you don't follow or listen to SA news, this Guy Moeletsi has been a critic even during his brother's rule.
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The-Rothschilds

MissBhakajuju

I apologize
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Fernie

Moeletsi Mbeki, as much as I respect you but I doubt your judgement, always against ANC (especially the current leadership). What are you doing to assist them? After all you're a businessman who benefited from the ANC as well. @Mychief, I do agree with you, his anger is clouding his judgement. I don't think ANC will lose power very soon. As for ANCYL, you're very wrong. Go back and study the motive behind the ANCYL claiming to be fighting for the poor. ANCYL was formed by ANC members to perform some tasks, just like ANCWL..
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MommaC

I always did say we got the wrong Mbeki brother as president.
I just hope that this is taken as the constructive criticism it is and not met with a belly full of vitriol.
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The-Rothschilds

God forbid a arab spring revolution should happen here!
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swona

this dude is boring! we know he's still bitter about what malema did to his brother!
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MAARKENG-JANONG

Good analysis by a pragmatist!!!!!!!!!!!
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Wordoftruth

The problem with the current crop of ANC cadres is this blind loyalty. Comrades, that CANNOT help the party!!! It destroys it. Any progressive modern organization needs constructive criticism to correct itself in order to be ahead of its competitors and the political pack.

So lento yokuthi u Moeletsi is bitter ngoba uThabo akayiwinanga i Polokwane, noma akatholi ama tender, without Comrades hearing him out, aysizi uKhongolose.

Objectivity please... because sonke siyayithanda i ANC ngoba sayilwela, sayifela, futhi siyafisa ukuthi ihlale ibusa izwe lase Mzansi for bonke abantu abantulayo base Mzansi hhayi nje abathizeni.
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Tasto

Not beoyond 2014 !!
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LimpopoKEGAESO

Then what will be the leading party if is not ANC,,,i wonder
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PleaseGetReal

Truth in his words, but the blind followers will criticize just as the anc does when the truth are spoken about their incompetence.
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Bra007

@Wordoftruth

hayi suka la wena usho ngoba ungaboni??? BITTER BITTER BITTER!!!
FULL OF ANGER, no more gravy train for him now, he benefited a lots when his brother was still the president, he never said such things, now that Thabo is no longer the prezzie he says bad stuff about the ANC. Who cares anyway, no one likes (bitter) dude.
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Bra007

@PleaseGetReal


Do what your name says: PLEASE GET REAL...Mbeki Jr is BITTER!!! very BITTER
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Printa

I couldnt have said it better Mr Mbeki Jr. Now the bombs are on way.
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Wordoftruth

@ Bra007

Let's all assume and agree that he is bitter and angry that he is no longer in the gravy train.

But that doesn't change the FACT of his analysis regarding the state or the status of where the ANC is at, or heading.

There is truth in what he is saying and if all of us truly LOVE the ANC not only for selfish ends but for all the impoverished masses of the country who voted and still voting it in power, then we need to take critical observation of the FACTS, not WHO discusses them.
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Ms-B

All those who are questioning Mbeki's objectivity, i suggest you take a trip down memory lane, incase you were hiding somewhere when Thabo was president, let me remind you, Moeletsi was just as critical of the ANC even when his brother was still a president. The problem is the ANC does not take criticism very well, they seem to think they are perfect, and that will altimately lead to their downfall. WATCH the space.
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Aijaman

Some people comment on this blog without following POLITICS!!!This is why I say South African politics are so F****cked up..So many miss-informed people talking.
Guys..Guys..Guys....M.Mbeki was never a good friend of T.Mbeki during Thibo's time. Just go and check how did Moeletsi criticise his brother during the xenophobia attacks in SA..He was the first one to ask where is Thabo Mbeki??

Check how he was criticising Thabo Mbeki for always visiting foreign countries without sorting local problems. Moeletsi Mbeki was always on wrong end with Thabo when it comes to POLICIES. They never agreed in many issues. Moeletsi was a number critic during Thabo's time.

It is suprising to hear some-1 saying Moeletsi is bitter bcos Zuma took his brother position while Moeletsi was always discrediting Thabo...Those who say "On other hand he is Thabo's brother now we are boung to hear these types of critics" Tell me, how long you've been following POLITICS..

Remember this "In politics there are no permanent friends, no permanent enemy, no brother, no sister and no father...It's purely politics and the decisions and critics in politics are only base on politics..For the fact that you think Moeletsi is standing for Thiboz..U lost the plot.It simply means "U DNT KNW POLITICS BUT U SPEAK ABT POLITICS"..First learn to understand how does politics operate....can some-1 tell me What is role of ANCWL?Those mama's are simply not functioning..It's like they say "Yes Boss, Yes Boss, Yes Boss"Nothing is coming out from them to improve the society....
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MommaC

Bra007

He criticised Mbeki too.
In fact they had him blacklisted at SABC because he was badmouthing his brother
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Bra007

@MommaC


Thank u, i will google that, the rest mxm!!!
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Ms-B

@Aijaman i could not have said it better myself, people must educate themselves before commenting on a topic, to try an avoid looking and sounding stupid.
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Aijaman

MommaC,Ms-B (my love) and WordofTruth let me tell u something girls..Today you get so many people talking without having any reference..They simply don't know Moeletsi Mbeki...They think he was close to Mbeki when his brother was a president...They simply don't know politics and they think they know. Ngenxa yokuba bezibrothers bacinga omnye is standing for omnye. They are mistakes.
This guy was like this long before Zuma was a president. Just listen when he even criticise Mandela..Ungothuka!!!This is a serious economist..He never care nokuba ngubani ipresident.

What make him special and different to others is bcos everytime he criticise. He also offer solution. Just read his new book..I bet some of these guys don't even know that he just release a book called "Advocates for change"..Bayathetha qhaa!!!
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Wordoftruth

@ Aijaman

The story yamakhosikazi kaKhongolose iyona ebuhlungu ngoba nayo iANCWL leadership realizes that it is only used when leadership battles in the ANC are fought, but then one cannot fault those who use it, for that is how the d0g eat d0g world works - if you are weak, you shall be swallowed.

Until such time that there is radical re-engineering of what the ANCWL is for and what its rightful place in the broader ANC family is, it's gonna be just a toy for the big boys.
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MommaC

Aijaman

Thanks, I didn't know it was out already. I'll make sure to look out for it
His book Architects of Poverty was very informative.

We are so used to this 'lager' type of approach from the cadres that I suppose having your own brother being critical is difficult for some to believe. A lot of them spend an awful lot of time attacking those who bring up issues so they tend to lose track of who they attacked and who still needs attacking
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Wordoftruth

@ MommaC

Thing is, if I do something (wrong) I also expect that of another person ... if you get my drift...

Another thing about the ANC which is sad, is that cadres are not themselves (thinking wise) because instead of being members of the ANC, they are members of members of the ANC... and yisidina ke leyo yinto ngoba ibulala i strength se Party.

Kumoshekile at the ANC shame.
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MommaC

Wordoftruth

There is a difference between standing with you and shielding you.
If you did something wrong, your family would probably support you but they wouldn't attack the other person for noticing what you did wrong. That is why you know about things like consequences and being able to take constructive criticism, It allows you to grow and get better. If a family is over protective then the child never learns and becomes a brat who never grows up or opens their mind.

This 'ant nest' mentality of everyone has to think the same way is not doing the ANC any good. The 'collective' approach is also shielding far too many incompetent (and criminal) elements from having to take responsibility.
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Sinudeity

F*** the anc.
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Mphaketsane24

Mr Mbeki, you know people will only listen 2 you when u critise the ANC. That's how u made ur name. Otherwise ur not goons make it without bashing de ANC.
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Sinudeity

Mphaketsane24 - The ANC deserved to be bashed.
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Sinudeity

Mphaketsane24 - The e-Toll was implimented so that ANC top dawgs can become rich, while we pay the taxes. SANRAL thought they could hide this from us, the ANC thought they could hide this from us.

This is what they do, we've already had the Armsdeal, the Hitachi deal, the PetroSA deal...

Your ANC is selling out our country, for a profit.
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Sinudeity

Bra007 - Careful you dont get invited for breakfast with the DA's Maimane :P
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Izino2704

@Bra007 your response to Sinudeity is very unacceptable...
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Bra007

@Sinudeity


Go and eat bananas


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Mphaketsane24

SA needs investments, infrastructure development and jobs. You can't create these things if u don't take big steps forward. Cosatu is fighting e-tolling but the majority of their members are in the low income bracket and most use trains, donkeys, busses and sit at the back of bakkies to go to work. I have never ran out of parking in town when it is cosatu match.
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Bra007

@Garden boy---Sinudeity


wena mankiey
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Traveljunie

What a pity the useless Apartheid's New Custodians or ANC does not listen to this man.

This man is one of the few with the insight to help SA.

Give him a JWB, Juju can not have his aymore
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spatch

Moeletsi for President!
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Fanle

For everything,there are prons & cons. Why does he only concentrate on negative things?
Why didnt he critisize during Thabo Mbeki's Era?
Yes we have seen ANC making blunders but surely ikhona into enhle eyenzayo.


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Traveljunie

Fanle, he did critize the Mbeki era and Mbeki and the then useless lot in goverment as he is doing today.
But with your current "Apartheids New Custodian" yes ANC there is not much to be possitive about.
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Realistically

Interesting! Time for people to start waking up and think properly as to where we are going despite race differences. The common goal in SA is nowhere to be seen.

Wake up call to all!
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PointOfOrder1

Mr Mbeki can you please stop saying the obvious things. If you don't have anything better to say just keep quiet.
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Sinudeity

PointOfOrder1 - If its so obvious, why does over half of the country not grasp it?
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Makhosini0408

Keep on dreaming Sir. By the way, who will dethrone the ANC?
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bokaba.123

Change can happen very fast at times. From a respected anti-apartheid activist who dedicated his life to the struggle, to a prophet of doom! Comrade Mbeki, i.e. if he's still comrade; knows what to do. As u said @Papage, he must locate his branch where he stays and start helping the organisation.
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Sinudeity

Makhosini0408 - It will be the DA if you follow trends. ANC support dropped by 9% last elections, and DA support increased by 9%. Unless of course a new political party enters that scene, which would be pretty sweet. I dont know how much longer COSATU will support the ANC.
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Spanasi

@mychief.
I think you miss the point because you rushed to attach this to his brother, Moeletsi ha s been vocal even when his brother was the CEO of Mzanzi. The issues he is raising now are genuine, just put aside your hatred of his brother and concentrate ion the content of his speech.
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xhosagirl

Archbishop alredy told SA that ANC will los power
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Makhosini0408

@Sinudeity
I agree to disagree. Remember that in terms of the last elections, there was voter aparthy. If the ANC sort itself out, it will be a different story. In short, all the surveys that say the ANC is losing support are always proved wrong at election time.

In terms of Provinces it is still eight out of nine. Mbeki, with all due respect is one angry brother.

Go to the slums and all the areas, where the masses live and you will get a different story, not a diluted version to give others hope, where it does not exists.
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Sinudeity

Makhosini0408 - "In short, all the surveys that say the ANC is losing support are always proved wrong at election time."

But the facts speak for themselves.
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Mude-Mude

"Earlier, he told University of Stellenbosch students there was potential for the “emergence of a new political party, driven by organised labour and business”.

O.M.G Zizi ingathi awubhekeli abasebenzi nawe unguhlohlesakhe nje, andakuqonda ke ngoku. rilli huz side are u on Mr?
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Sinudeity

Makhosini0408 - Has the ANC sorted itself out yet?
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Theotherguy

Well anyone who disagrees 100% with Moeletsi Mbeki need reality check. It boggles my mind to hear masses supporting a man who said ANC will rule up until Jesus comes, that judges are not God, that he has a problem with judges giving conflicting judgements. Really is this the best that South Africa can present to the world. Come Mangaung 5000 or so delegates will vote for Mr Zuma but come general elections time some people will vote for DA. I am not prophet of doom but DA is gaining ground in the black communities especially the so called middle class section, the irony is that ANC has created and expandes this class. Predictably those who depend on social grants will still form part of majority of ANC voters.
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rasefatee

@1tsotsi
MissBhakajuju
wait 4 the Misilles from Luthuli House, from the d.oom commanders Gwede, Shawara, Baleka........ the ones that were called to order by the Afrikaaners, this week.
===========
You forgot to mention the drunken master Mthembu, im sure that now he still sipping his smirnoff then he will unleash!!!
==============================================================
drunken master Mthembu, hahahahahahahaha
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Wozanami

Eish. Looks like ancyl organised a tender for small mbeki somewhere.
"70% of anc voters don't work"???
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Makhosini0408

Sinudeity
Makhosini0408 - Has the ANC sorted itself out yet?

Let us clear this. I am not a member of the ANC. I am just raising my views as a South African.

Let me repeat what I once shared on this forum and apologies if it is a cliche. The marginalised masses are intelligent and ignore them at your own peril. Fortunately, they have the same vote with some of the people talking at them as being uneducated or misinformed.


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Sinudeity

Makhosini0408 - Yeah, I remember from previous discussions.

Im not saying the marginalised masses are not important. But they are also the group of people protesting the most in South Africa, under the ANC government.

I just wonder how many elections have to pass before the marginalised say, ok, last chance ANC.
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mamadimo

The honest truth, no service delivery from the ANC leadership
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Dandan

Sinudeity
Makhosini0408 - It will be the DA if you follow trends. ANC support dropped by 9% last elections, and DA support increased by 9%

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


you cannt capitalise on that when the anc was facing problems of splinter groupings, that would not be fair judgment. Moeletsi has been a critic ever since, when on tv debating his thoughts he is tongue tide.

poverty in south africa is well know phenomenon , however the govt is trying all means to support by means of grants, remember this is a situation created by apartheid by denying b.lacks opportunities for advancement, now the anc is carrying their burden.

Foreign investment- is completely rubbish , we dont need that , thats is what Thabo did which was a huge blunder instead of empowering b.lacks to start businesses , foreign investors have proven long that they exploit workers , the point is IDC/DBSA should inject more funds for start ups other than focusing on foreign investors.

we dont understand what is the cry on judiciary when it has been proven over and over that it is independent, the only threat is when Hellen Zille can be a Pres of which will never happen, Im referring here of current situation where she is resisting PPs order.

SABC is a strong political order under no circumstances it should be independent, it is funded by the state and is a strongest organ of the state any person who wants SABC to operate willy willy must hang

A new political party was formed COPe it died on natural courses /illness

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Sinudeity

Dandan - Overpopulation wasnt caused by the apartheid government, and that is the real cause of poverty. 1800, the black population was 400,000. 1900, the black population was 2,00,000. 100 years later, were sitting on 35 million. Meaning that the black population increased more than 15x in the past 100 years. While the white population increased by 5x.

Realistically, South Africa can sustain a population of 30 million, not 50 million.


"Foreign investment- is completely rubbish"

Um... Tell that to uncle Mugabe, and Zimbabwe sitting with its unemployment rate at 95%. The truth is, we need every single bit of foreign investment we can get our hands on. It means more foreign capital into South Africa, which means, more capital.


The only real threat to South Africa, was if Jacob would become president, now we have it. I understand though, that your illogical comments are comming from a position of irrational fear.

The SABC is not the mouthpiece of the ANC. Its a mouthpiece of the government. Ah yes, but then again, merely more evidence that the party and state is not seperate.


As for COPE, they were the b@stard child of the ANC, with ANC leaders in its ranks. That is not the 'new political party' we are refering to.
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Dandan

Sinudeity


overpopulation- this is a new concept in this dispensation , simialr situation of Treunitch who had a mission to throw all b.lacks at see , I dont know what were you trying to make out of this , nosense at all

Good you made an example with Zim , thats why I say we dont need foreign invetors because when times are tough they can live at anytime compared to investing more time on local entrepreneurs. SA is also sitting on time bomb similar to Zim which was a situation created by Mbeki to woo all these foreign investors into SA

The model was there with Gadaffi how he subsidies emerging entrepreneurs other than attracting foreign investors, but Mbeki was stubborn did nt want to listen to gadaffi
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Sinudeity

Dandan - "I dont know what were you trying to make out of this"

My point, is that because some families choose to have 8 kids, even while being unemployed, they will forever live in poverty. And their children, and their childrends children. Doesnt matter how many years we have moved past apartheid.


"Good you made an example with Zim , thats why I say we dont need foreign invetors because when times are tough they can live at anytime compared to investing more time on local entrepreneurs"

Um... you are using 95% unemployment and over a million r3fugees in South Africa as an example to back up your statement? How does that work?


"SA is also sitting on time bomb similar to Zim which was a situation created by Mbeki to woo all these foreign investors into SA"

Yeah we are, that is one of the reasons why the ANC wount last many times past its centenary. Because we have 20 million people living in poverty, and because the self-enriching top dawgs steal R30 billion from the country every year.


"The model was there with Gadaffi how he subsidies emerging entrepreneurs other than attracting foreign investors, but Mbeki was stubborn did nt want to listen to gadaffi"

Libya has oil, and only has a population of 6 million, and even with Gaddafi stealing billions from the country, the 6 million people were subs1dised by the government. Now imagine if Libya had a population of 50 million.


What you dont get, is that even if you took all the w3alth in the country, and distributed it to the poor, they would still be poor, as there are more underpriviledged people in the country, than w3alth.
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Sinudeity

Dandan - I'll tell you what Mbeki, Julius and Jacob got wrong. They think that South Africa can be uplifted by keeping it a tier-1 producing country. By exporting finite resources of minerals.

They dont realise that we need to move into a tier-2 manufacturing country. One that refines the minerals into manufactured goods. Steel etc.

On top of that, we would rather import tier-3 goods from foreign countries (China/America), made from our own resources, but pay 4x more for it, instead of manufacturing our own products and exporting it to other countries.

A good example of this, is the ANC government killing our textile industry, in order to rather import textiles from China.
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Dandan

Sinudeity

there is no country in the world that has 100% citizen being upper class, you go to spain you find street adults, UK there was huge riots few months ago for CP cutting grants, stop lying that there is no party that will stop poverty

Its is good that ANC can comply to Thulis rulings otherthan DA which hides corruption under carpet
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Dandan

Sinudeity
I'll tell you what Mbeki, Julius and Jacob got wrong. They think that South Africa can be uplifted by keeping it a tier-1 producing country. By exporting finite resources of minerals
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


exactly now you agree with what I said in the beginings that Mbeki should have invested more on emerging local entrepreuneurs, we have engineers/researchers/etc who should have tried to test that
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Sinudeity

Dandan - "there is no country in the world that has 100% citizen being upper class, you go to spain you find street adults, UK there was huge riots few months ago for CP cutting grants, stop lying that there is no party that will stop poverty"

Thats true, but then again, some of the other few 1st world countries, have very low unemployment rates. The US, after the recession is struggling with 6% unemployment. Here we are, sitting with 25%.


"Its is good that ANC can comply to Thulis rulings otherthan DA which hides corruption under carpet"

You talking about the communications tender? Thuli's leaked ruling didnt find any corruption, if you read the reports. But then again, the DA isnt trying to implement POI/MAT to actually hide its corruption from the public view.


"exactly now you agree with what I said in the beginings that Mbeki should have invested more on emerging local entrepreuneurs, we have engineers/researchers/etc who should have tried to test that"

Unfortunately, we dont have enough engineers and scientists. There is a HUGE demand for engineers in the country. Our education department isnt helping much with this regard.
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Lehido

i also agree, ANC will loose power and it might be sooner than we all think
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Pula

Is it because the presidency of the ANC was taken from your brother unceremoniously?
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Blackthought

ANC will gradually lose its power through provinces in the next ten years. The first to go will be Gauteng....the rest will follow suit. By the way, DA will probably have nothing to do with it.....
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Faceless123

Existance of the DA is proping up the ANC. Without DA ANC would split.
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Tapile

That is correct because those who should run the country are currently behave like celebrities, making birthdays, parties and marriages everyday. The current administration is taking South African people for a joke, look people are in the streets everyday for basic services no one is quickly attending to that, but we see the so called leaders go around looking for other people who are rich and playing golf and ask them if they are no copmlaining, what is that? Come 2014 now.
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Letsi

Moeletsi is just bitter, Wishful thinking sir. Keep dreaming. ANC has other better leaders so what will make it go down unless you are telling us that the Mbeki's are plotting to bring ANC down? The Thabo Mbeki I know wont but who knows?
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