Sat Dec 10 18:30:39 CAT 2016

'We all failed Marikana miners': Ramaphosa

By Sapa | 2014-08-12 11:58:06.0 | COMMENTS [ 101 ]

Different parties should take the blame for the August 2012 Marikana tragedy, Deputy President Cyril Ramaphosa told the Farlam Commission of Inquiry on Tuesday.

"The tragedy has to be approached as a collective failure by many role players. I don't think that many can say they do not bear any form of responsibility," he told the commission's public hearings in Pretoria.

Ramaphosa was being cross-examined by Dali Mpofu, for the wounded and arrested Marikana miners.

Ramaphosa was a non-executive director and shareholder of Lonmin at the time.

"The responsibility has to be collective. As a nation, we should dip our heads and accept that we failed the people of Marikana, particularly the families, the workers, and those that died," he said.

The commission, chaired by retired judge Ian Farlam, is investigating the deaths of 44 people during strike-related violence at Lonmin's platinum mining operations at Marikana, near Rustenburg in the North West, in August 2012.

Thirty-four people, mostly striking mineworkers, were shot dead in a clash with police, over 70 were wounded, and over 250 arrested on August 16, 2012. Police were apparently trying to disarm and disperse them.

In the preceding week, 10 people, including two policemen and two Lonmin security guards, were killed.

Mpofu said Ramaphosa's responsibilities at Marikana went beyond fiduciary duties as a non-executive director of Lonmin.

"Of the parties you say should share the responsibility, you were associated with [the] Lonmin board and management, you were a shareholder, the SA Police Service, the government," said Mpofu.

Ramaphosa said he was not in government (at the time).

Mpofu retorted: "You were not in government but you were exchanging telephone calls with people in government.

"You were a senior member of the ANC [African National Congress]".

Mpofu suggested Ramaphosa was criminally liable for the Marikana events.

 

COMMENTS [ 101 ]

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RobinX

There we go. I have been waiting for this. A very typical ANC response at the moment..... hide behind some undefined collective. Very brave!

2014-08-12 11:59:54.0 | 2 replies

Mjove-a-hlanye

And to top it all....he had forgotten about the incident until he was supboenard by the Commission. ANd thats why he is responding the way he is!!

2014-08-12 12:06:24.0 | 0 replies

Sew

@ RobinX - Madala, you wrote one full sentence full of nonsense, if you don't mind rewrite again.

2014-08-12 12:07:48.0 | 1 replies

RobinX

Makes perfect sense to the literate and logical. I suggest you read it again. Only two words with more than two syllables, so you should manage.

2014-08-12 12:12:14.0 | 1 replies

Mjove-a-hlanye

Robin what did you do for our fellow blogger to hate you the way they do?

2014-08-12 12:25:13.0 | 1 replies

RobinX

I think. It seems to be a problem for some. And I have a sharp tongue that gets unleashed at racists and bigots. Do I care what those racist haters think of me? Not in the least.

2014-08-12 12:31:12.0 | 1 replies

Mjove-a-hlanye

Good for you Robin...

2014-08-12 12:50:01.0 | 1 replies

RobinX

Thanks. I think.

2014-08-12 13:02:29.0 | 0 replies

Bunyulawe

Dnt stress about these commission my Deputy President and fishing partner,.....summer is comming we will meet at Sterkfontein dam, Fly fishing,.Deputy President...I miss those outing

2014-08-12 12:10:56.0 | 0 replies

TupacAmaru!

Ok at least we're getting somewhere here. 1st it was I am not to blame, 2nd it is we are all to blame and thirdly ek beloof he will take the blame...and be removed from the second highest office and go to C-Max prison.

2014-08-12 12:11:15.0 | 1 replies

BOKKER

Who is this "WE" he is now talking about. Me myownself and I have forkol to do with that situation although to be frank I would also have pulled the trigger on that barbaric horde.

2014-08-12 13:04:59.0 | 0 replies

Papage

Not all of us, but you,you instructed the Police to kill them, coward

2014-08-12 12:12:57.0 | 0 replies

Domkop~

Today I have turned 25. Somebody wish me blessings, wisdom, long life and good health please.

2014-08-12 12:26:43.0 | 4 replies

oldlady12

Domkop, Happy Birthday. May you be healthy, wealthy and wise for the rest of your life, and always treat people the way you want to be treated.

2014-08-12 12:52:07.0 | 1 replies

BOKKER

OL12 Still thinking of you and your family ma'am.

2014-08-12 13:08:01.0 | 1 replies

oldlady12

Bokker, thank you. And thank you to everyone else for their kinds words yesterday too. I thought I'd be able to "forget" by chatting with the bloggers yesterday, but I just could not do it.

2014-08-12 13:14:26.0 | 0 replies

RobinX

Many happy returns.....

2014-08-12 13:03:06.0 | 0 replies

BOKKER

@DOMMY I hope you willl gain enough wisdom never to vote for thiEFF or ZANC again. Happppppeeeeee

2014-08-12 13:06:31.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

Have a lovely day, Domkop :) Here is hoping that wisdom comes to you in shovel fulls :)

2014-08-12 13:06:51.0 | 0 replies

oldlady12

I will take no responsibility for Marikana. The responsibility lies with the people who armed themselves for a strike, Finish & Klaar.

2014-08-12 12:52:47.0 | 2 replies

D-zel_3.0

Because they are savages who caused their own deaths right?

What you should say is black lives are cheap and dispansable and you will not listen to reason and logic because you made your mind from day one that these savages deserved to be killed in cold blood; right!!!

Put your ego aside and for once can you do some honest introspection, look at all the evidence before making up your mind but I suppose that is too much to ask of a bigot like you. The man is admitting guilt and still you want to blame the miners...

2014-08-12 13:04:23.0 | 0 replies

oldlady12

Dzel, hamba. Quit trying to put words in my mouth. I don't care if the armed attackers were white, black, p!nk of neon green, they attacked the cops (saw that piece you're conveniently forgetting on the news AGAIN last night), and therefor got what was coming to them. No amount of insults from you will EVER change my mind on that. I'm just not into the Kumbaya new way of life where criminals can do as they please, and the cops must play babyssiters, as you are. I'm forever into the for every action there is a reaction way of life. Act properly, then the reaction will be proper. Finish & Klaar.

2014-08-12 13:20:08.0 | 1 replies

D-zel_3.0

OL I wish someone were to attack in your house and do horrible things to you and then we can all say how it is your fault because you chose to live in a dangerous suburb.... oh, that has already happened.

See how hurtful stupid simplistic thinking can be?

Do you expect me to show you compassion when you fail the most basic of decency tests?

2014-08-12 13:25:57.0 | 3 replies

oldlady12

Dzel, if someone were to attack me in my house, then I'd be right to sh00t the life out of them, right? Right. Now you're getting it. You get attacked...you attack back....simple. Nothing hurtful about what you said, Dzel. And what compassion did I ever ask of you? Do you honestly think any feeling you have towards me will make any difference in my life? Talk about ego.

2014-08-12 13:29:02.0 | 1 replies

D-zel_3.0

A simple point escapes you, you are getting blamed for something that is not entirely your fault. Yes you probably can avoid being raped by choosing carefully where you buy your house but it would be stupid to say because you live in this suburb then you deserve to be raped.

You are right, you never asked me to show you compassion but that is what one would expect from a decent human being isn't it?

2014-08-12 13:33:43.0 | 1 replies

oldlady12

Dzel, huh? Blamed by who? Oh, you wanted me to get all excited because YOU talked about the suburb I chose to live in? It's such a stupid argument that it does not deserve a response. I chose to do the intelligent thing and compare apples with apples. Attacked by the miners compared to attacked in my own house. In both cases the reaction will be to attack right back. The rest of what you said is completely besides the point.

2014-08-12 13:44:57.0 | 0 replies

D-zel_3.0

We are tal.king about real lives, real people, real emotions, real families that have lost their lives unjustly and all you care about is defending the police? A bit of emotional intellegence is required OL, just a pinch of EQ will go a long way in determining how people react to you.

2014-08-12 13:29:36.0 | 1 replies

oldlady12

Dzel, don't make the mistake of seeing yourself as "people". I have no problem with how people's reaction to me in general. My support will ALWAYS lie with the law-abiding, unarmed citizens of this country. The people who the cops are supposed to protect. They allow one armed mob of rebels to get away with it, tomorrow we have anarchy in our streets (oh wait, we're almost there, because since Marikana and the criminals' sympathisers, our cops are too scared to react). You will only understand what I am talking about the day YOU need the cops. Nope, I firmly believe in law and ORDER. Treat others as you want to be treated.

2014-08-12 13:39:37.0 | 0 replies

RobinX

You really are something else, aren't you. You put words into people's mouths, words and sentiments they have never and would never utter. and then you have the gall to try and pick arguments over what was NOT said. INSANE and rather annoying.

2014-08-12 13:33:20.0 | 2 replies

D-zel_3.0

Who are you talking to Robin?

2014-08-12 13:34:39.0 | 1 replies

RobinX

YOU, YOU BELLIGERENT SKAAP!

2014-08-12 14:04:25.0 | 0 replies

oldlady12

RobinX, I am in awe. Hitting the nail on the head with so few words. Not a talent I have, I fear.

2014-08-12 13:48:06.0 | 1 replies

RobinX

My pleasure, I assure you. The man needs a stywe klap!

2014-08-12 14:04:55.0 | 1 replies

D-zel_3.0

Look at Robin sucking up to OL, besides cheerleading and swearing what other trick do you have up your sleave Robin?

2014-08-12 14:36:54.0 | 2 replies

RobinX

You're more and more ridiculous by the day. "cheerleading"????

2014-08-12 14:40:39.0 | 0 replies

oldlady12

Dzel, how did I just know that's the response you're going to come up with? Ah, I know you so well. Always playing the player instead of the ball.

2014-08-12 14:48:14.0 | 1 replies

D-zel_3.0

He is not adding any value and he is playing th role of cheerleader; it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that is what I was going to say. Look at him, he looks pathetic in those tight cheerleading shots, in fact he looks gayish wouldn't you say?

2014-08-12 14:50:54.0 | 2 replies

RobinX

If that's supposed to be an insult you are far off the mark. I have no issue with gays or my own sexuality. Do you? "tight cheerleading shots"???? What are you on about? Me dancing with two small children? You are truly pathetic. Can't even get an insult right. Shame. Try harder next time.

2014-08-12 14:56:29.0 | 1 replies

D-zel_3.0

Calling you a cheerleader is not an insult Einstein; it is descriptive and the metaphor was not meant to insult but again it is meant to describe just how pathetic you look.

For your info I have come down to your level but do not intend debating what is a good insult and what isn’t for the rest of the day. Do you have something clever to say besides playing a game of who can insult who more? Is that the sum total of your contribution to this thread Robin?

2014-08-12 15:02:12.0 | 2 replies

oldlady12

Dzel, just a question. If you're finding words to describe how "pathetic" someone looks, you don't see that as an insult?

2014-08-12 15:05:05.0 | 0 replies

RobinX

You couldn't reach my level of thought if you had a fire-truck. Dream on!

2014-08-12 15:15:56.0 | 0 replies

oldlady12

Dzel, not quite as gayish as you do when ba.ll lic.ker Pi.tso joins your cho.ir, and you si.gh with every str.oke, and Shredder says amen to your every song. A ga.y Jesus you are to your men. And he did describe your actions to a T, gayish or not.

2014-08-12 14:59:31.0 | 1 replies

D-zel_3.0

Gay Jesus.... LOL. I like that....LOL. Has it ever crossed your mind that these are people who see past your bigotry, subliminal racism and know you for what you are. Never crossed your mind ever, no hint, nada? I don't have anything against you as an individual but boy do I hate the way you think, your bigotted views and the subliminal racism

That said I don't do well stooping to your level; do you mind adding a bit of brain power to your responses, points will be allocated for comments that are relavant to the question and bonus points for those who add value to the debate at hand.

2014-08-12 15:09:03.0 | 1 replies

oldlady12

Dzel, points from you? You really want to tickle my funny bone today? Nope, never crossed my mind, because it was never on comments I made, so why would it have anything to do with me? That thought never crossed YOUR mind, obviously. And I'm not even honored that you think everything said on this forum always has something to do with me. I wonder why.

2014-08-12 15:14:40.0 | 1 replies

D-zel_3.0

hehehe... not from me dummy, from passive readers of the forum... Geez you wouldn't know wit even if it approached you and introduced itself, gosh OL... LOL!!!

2014-08-12 15:17:23.0 | 1 replies

oldlady12

Dzel, and I suppose you know the scores these imaginary passive readers would give too. Heheheheeeeeee, ja nè. Talk about voices in the head. And a word of advice, you're confusing you being a dimwit with wit.

2014-08-12 15:25:14.0 | 1 replies

D-zel_3.0

I think an English Lesson may be in order, OL I suppose you don't know there are people that read the articles, reads the comments but do not comment, these are called passive readers. Then there are those that read the articles, read the comments and then comment, these are active readers of this forum.

I don’t blame you for not understand how people read these forums and what influence one can have by just participating on this forum. I’ll share an example and trust me it is true; a few years ago I participated on a different forum, I wrote an opinion piece which was then plagiarised by some blogger from the state. A friend who was in Australia came across the bl.og and alerted me to it and it was plagiarised almost verbatim.

You can attempt to turn that around and suggest that is why my ego is inflated but it is not, a lot of interaction happens behind the scenes OL but you wouldn’t know this would you. I don’t need to go toe-to-toe with you or entertain this pointless interaction but for some reason I am tempted to reply, this is why I end up ignoring you cause you make a lot of noise and offer no substance OL. You can be draining at times that is if one gives you the platform to drag the debate into minute details which is what your contribution to the forum is. You find people debating the bigger picture and you dumb the conversation down by discussion things like “you're confusing you being a dimwit with wit”; trust me wit does not suite you OL, you suck at it so please stop trying.

I don’t need to compete with you OL but clearly you feel the need to out stage me for whatever reason.

2014-08-12 15:42:19.0 | 1 replies

oldlady12

Dzel, oh dear, for someone who ignores me, you sure address plenty comments to me. As for the rest, whatever.

2014-08-12 16:42:29.0 | 0 replies

Mzabalazo

Ok Ramabuffalo the nation should share in the blame, because they were involve how, but the government should not share the blame because they were not involve. The minister of police is not part of the government, the commissioner of police was not appointed by the president who is the leader of the government but was appointed by the nation. How we as a nation we that it beats me. You have no right to throw the blame to the nation because you did not involve the nation when the strike started, there has never been any consultation with us as a nation in any decision you took. Your apology stinks worse than Jordan's

2014-08-12 12:57:01.0 | 0 replies

D-zel_3.0

Lonmin, NUM, ANC and these individuals have ran out of hiding places and lies to tell; it's about damn time too.

2014-08-12 12:59:45.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

It only becomes obvious just how subjective the media is when you read the story after having watched it live.

2014-08-12 13:05:56.0 | 1 replies

BOKKER

Subjective or dishonest?

2014-08-12 13:07:11.0 | 3 replies

D-zel_3.0

Nothing subjective or dishonest there Bokker, the Media is quoting what Cyril said and he suddenly wants to share culpability with the nation now that his central role in the massacre is being exposed for all to see.

2014-08-12 13:14:40.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

Not dishonest. He did say that. The context of the questioning and the other answers inbetween have been left out. That changes the entire understanding of it.

2014-08-12 13:14:48.0 | 0 replies

D-zel_3.0

Again; if you want to judge context for yourself here is a reliable place to judge for yourself:

http://www.n.ew.s24.com/SouthAfrica/News/LIVE-Ramaphosa-returns-to-Farlam-inquiry-20140812

The sub-text to what you have been told is; "I misjudged what happened that day but I stubbornly refuse to accept the truth and I will hold on to the lie for dear life because that is my story and I ain't changing it".

Ill-conceived egos are suddenly more important than the truth.

2014-08-12 13:19:54.0 | 0 replies

D-zel_3.0

Now that the truth is coming out the media – the very same media that blamed the miners from day one – are suddenly subjective?

Well n.ew.s24 carries live streaming feeds, I suppose they too are twisting what has been said in the commission around

the lengths that some people are willing to go just to perpetuate a lie is amazing, I suppose the fact that people were killed unjustly is less important than the need to be seen to be right in this forum… it says a lot about one’s dodgy character I say.

2014-08-12 13:11:58.0 | 0 replies

Mahungu

You failed Marikana. who's we? You and Nathi.

2014-08-12 13:14:05.0 | 0 replies
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