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Suspend Israeli architects: Tutu

By Sapa | 2014-08-08 06:57:15.0 | COMMENTS [ 190 ]

Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu called on Thursday for the suspension of the Israeli Architects' Association from an international architectural body.

"I believe it would be appropriate for the UIA [International Union of Architects] to send a clear message of support for justice in Palestine and Israel by suspending the Israeli Architects' Association from the world body," Tutu said in a speech prepared for delivery at the UIA's 25th world congress in Durban.

Tutu appealed to architects from Israel to disassociate themselves and their profession from the design and construction of any infrastructure that could be related to injustice.

That included the separation wall in the West Bank, security terminals and checkpoints, and the Israeli settlements built on Palestinian land.

"I implore you to take this message home: Please turn the tide against violence and hatred by joining the non-violent movement for justice for all people of the region," he said.

Tutu told delegates that politicians had over the years tried to find a workable solution for the two nations to live in peace but they had not succeeded.

He said it was time for civil society to step into the void and persuade the people and leaders of Israel that it was in humanity's best interests to enter into dialogue.

COMMENTS [ 190 ]

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Mshovekahle

Nyawontle Please pray for the down fall of the ANC under this current leadership

2014-08-08 07:48:36.0 | 1 replies

ZWANGENDABA

I will pray for GOOD Gorvenance by the ANC.

2014-08-12 04:23:46.0 | 0 replies

Pointman

The Arch needs to take a more balanced view on this issue. How come all those concerned about the deaths in Gaza are quite about the murders of christians and other minorities in Iraq and mass rape of women there. Maybe because it is part of sharia law which makes it bizarrely "legal".

2014-08-08 08:11:21.0 | 2 replies

Solm

@Pointman I wonder what's a balanced approach in your understand.Would you care to elaborate?These terrorist thugs who behead, crucify, rape and execute people in Iraq and Syria have other agendas other the Sharia Law you obviously know little about.They do all these far more to Muslims (who disagree with them) rather than Christians.To try and make this a Muslim-Christian issue is an oversimplification and flawed.Try another perspective.It would help you to spend more time to familiarize yourself with issues at stake before passing comments.The Arch is spot-on.He understands this much better than you.

2014-08-08 08:22:23.0 | 1 replies

Pointman

I know all about islam - read extensively. The inventor of Islam, Mohammed raided caravans (stole other peoples property), took women and children as slaves and raped the wives of men he had killed - he said allah had "made these things lawful for muslims". He even married a 6 year old - see allah told him too. Did you read the story of what ISIS is doing to Yezidi women right now - its all over the news. ISIS is doing all the things the "prophet" of islam did.

2014-08-08 08:46:15.0 | 1 replies

Solm

LOL never mind.I thought you had something serious to say.I can't help you with your bias.You don't know anything about Islam.There is nothing to talk about here.Cheers

2014-08-08 09:28:03.0 | 1 replies

Pointman

I was serious! I am just recalling from things muslims wrote. The hadits and koran. Do you deny any of the things I wrote above. Tell me and I will send you the reference - written by muslims.

2014-08-08 09:37:15.0 | 1 replies

Solm

LOL don't worry.You don't need to send me anywhere.Im Muslim and know my religion.

2014-08-08 11:08:21.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - Ah, you are muslim. That explains your bias and proclivity for propaganda.

2014-08-08 11:11:11.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Yes I'm 100% but that's neither here nor there

2014-08-08 11:37:37.0 | 0 replies

ZWANGENDABA

Pointman - it is NOT THE Palestinians who are murdering christians in Iraq or whatever. There is no excuse for APARTHEID ISRAEL to murder innocent children in occupied Palestine because christians are being killed in another country.

2014-08-12 04:26:42.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

Arch,
Does it not concern you even slightly that Christians are being targeted in Iran? Does it not concern you that Hamas has ALREADY claimed that they will trash the truce (in fact they have restarted with the rocket fire?. Does it not concern you that there were more abductions in Niigeria? Does it not concern you that the spread of Ebola is not being halted?

For the love of the gods, man! A dude who is sitting behind an architect drawing board is hardly the greatest threat to the world at the moment!

2014-08-08 08:50:11.0 | 2 replies

Solm

@MommaC what has all this got to do with what the Arch is saying? You mixing up things that have nothing to do with what is talked about here.

2014-08-08 09:30:27.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

How does the Arch worry about the smaller problem and completely ignore the whole herd of elephants in the room?

2014-08-08 09:41:55.0 | 0 replies

Solm

Christians targeted in Iran?Where do you get all these stuff you throw around.Can you please direct me to your source?

2014-08-08 09:36:35.0 | 2 replies

Pointman

Here - let me help. past this link in your browser or go to bloomberg.com. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-08/obama-pulled-back-into-iraq-conflict-amid-genocide-threat.html

2014-08-08 09:39:36.0 | 1 replies

Solm

What has this got to do with Iran?

2014-08-08 10:33:29.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

Why do you think South Africa removed our embassy staff out of Iran? I know this because I know one of the staff that was moved out. Despite the president claiming to be 'moderate', the persecution of Christians, Jews, Baha’is, Zoroastrians and Dervish continues. In fact it is escalating.

2014-08-08 09:45:29.0 | 2 replies

Solm

This is nonsense MommaC.You making up things now.

2014-08-08 10:36:02.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

Really? So why did we remove our embassy staff? You need to keep up with your world news, dear.

2014-08-08 10:38:13.0 | 1 replies

Solm

I think you confusing Iran with Iraq.

2014-08-08 11:09:30.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

No. She was based in Iran. Iraq is finally being noticed but nobody seems to have noticed that Iran is also going that way

2014-08-08 11:20:49.0 | 0 replies

ZWANGENDABA

Moma-C. Nelson Mandela was imprisoned because he protested being occupied. The ANC including Desmond TUTU resisted APARTHEID because it is a system created by those who occupy and wand the indeginous people there to be removed and live seperately in the poorest of the region. For his effort Mandela was labelled by the western governments a Terrorist and the Jewish state of Israel assisted the Apartheid regime against freedom fighters. The PLO is also fighting occupiers who claim it is their Christian-god given right to remove the palestinians from their land to a strip of non-productive region of the Arabian desert. IF IT WAS YOU, would you care if you are called a terrorist than fight for your country????? I repeat, it is not the Palestinians killing the so-called christians in Iraq, miles away from Palestine. That does not give the APARTHEID Jewish state of Isreal the god-given right to murder innocent occupied children and women.

2014-08-12 04:39:25.0 | 0 replies

ytieduniS

Hamas doesnt take kindly to Christians either.

2014-08-08 08:57:28.0 | 2 replies

MommaC

Did you hear about the Palestinians attacking the Hamas guy? Seems like they are also gatvol of their war mongering.

2014-08-08 09:20:24.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

MommaC - Yeah I did. Today the news is christians being chased out of Iraqi towns.

2014-08-08 09:26:33.0 | 2 replies

Solm

@ytiedniS what about Muslims who are butchered here in far greater numbers than Christians?

2014-08-08 09:34:11.0 | 2 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - What about the 170,000 dead Muslims in Syria? Compared to 1,000 dead Palestinians?

2014-08-08 09:36:39.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Who is supporting these terrorist thugs?Who is giving them guns and money?

2014-08-08 09:43:58.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - Which terrorist thugs are we referring to now?

2014-08-08 09:46:05.0 | 1 replies

Solm

I'm talking about ISIS in Iraq and Syria.Im talking about Al Nusra in Syria.All these nutcases from Boko Haram to Al Shabab to Al Qaeda.They all the same.All have the same founders!

2014-08-08 09:49:37.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - Just like hamas you are saying?

2014-08-08 09:51:47.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Hamas is not hired mercenaries going from country to country butchering innocent people.Hamas is fighting fascism occupying their land.

2014-08-08 10:32:24.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - And there is your problem. You think its right that hamas must kick all the jews out of isreal, instead of forming a united contry, or a two party state.

2014-08-08 11:10:21.0 | 1 replies

Solm

The problem fascism.If you don't understand than its pointless carrying on with this.

2014-08-08 11:40:05.0 | 0 replies

Pointman

Not just christians - Yezedis as well - a small religious sect now stuck in the mountains and Americans are mounting a rescue mission

2014-08-08 09:40:45.0 | 1 replies

Solm

America is the problem.

2014-08-08 09:44:25.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

No, Solm. YOU are the problem. YOU are the one allowing them to do this in your name. YOU are the one who makes excuses for what they do. YOU are the one who is coming across as being in favour of genocide. YOU are the one who refuses to see how much evil is being done in the name of Allah. America isn't the problem - YOU are

2014-08-08 09:48:00.0 | 1 replies

Solm

How am I a problem? Do I give these thugs guns and money? Please enlighten me.Assad is fighting the same thugs but he is a problem.Gadhafi couldn't and they wiped him out now Lybia is chaos.Please tell me how am I a problem here.

2014-08-08 09:52:46.0 | 2 replies

MommaC

You support them. Even if you don't support them directly, you support them by making excuses for them.

Let someone draw a flippin cartoon and you are all up in their face and calling for a 'fatwa'. Let a bunch use your religion as an excuse to murder and it is 'ag, that's so sweet'.

2014-08-08 09:56:02.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Who have I made excuses for?What are you talking about? Have I ever supported directly or indirectly killing of innocent people anywhere? Or am I guilty by being Muslim?

2014-08-08 10:22:00.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

Read your comments.
You are fully behind Hamas' call to wipe every Jewish person off the face of the earth. You think that Hamas is fully within their rights to kill anyone who is not Muslim. You agree with Hamas' idea that their own people are expendable. Why is that not just as wrong as what Israel is doing?

2014-08-08 11:23:43.0 | 2 replies

Solm

Who told you all these thing?Did I tell you or you imagining I'm behind all that just because I'm Muslim? Hamas within its right to kill anyone not Muslim?Did I say that?I can't debate fantasies with you.Bring me facts, what I actually said.Not what you THINK I said.You do to me what you do to Palestinians.You arrogate yourself a right to 'think' what they want.You don't want to hear them.You don't care about their say or thoughts.You the boss here, you decide who you want to listen to.You choose to hear Israel here.Well I don't one two grounds.Firstly because it's criminal and unjust to take someone's land by force and kick them out.How the victim responds to that is neither here nor there.You and Zionists want to focus the attention on the victim and all the responses the victim undertakes.You want to hear nothing about the person who stole the land.This is the criminal part and injustice you guilty of.Secondly as a South African, a black South African, I have lived under apartheid in this country which Israel supported.Israel made weapons for the Apartheid gov that were used to suppress us.This was Afrikaner fascism which Israel propped.When the world imposed sanctions on Apartheid South Africa, it was Israel which aided the Apartheid gov by stamping goods from here as from Israel.This was an Israeli attempt to salvage apartheid.This is why as a black South African, I can not in good conscience stand with fascists.It would be a betrayal of all the souls that suffered in this country if today I can stand with the same fascism that oppressed and killed them.

2014-08-08 15:22:03.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

"... it's criminal and unjust to take someone's land by force and kick them out" ..... if they are Muslim. If they are anything else, it is just fine. Not so?

2014-08-08 15:34:20.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Example? This is your agenda to put a religious spin on this.

2014-08-08 15:48:56.0 | 0 replies

ZWANGENDABA

Moma-C, you have selective memory. The Jewish state was ESTABLISHED to create a system that does not tolerate abanye abantu. Three months ago, the Israel state declared that it cannot accepted Afrikan refugees in Israel. Other races are welcome. Funda indaba ezehlukeneyo sihlobo. Dont just bank on flawed christian propaganda. By the way, mina I am a full blooded un-converted Nguni, I dont subscribe to imported religions. Therefore I look at Palestinian issue without a religious bias. I look at it politically and humanitarian grounds. Abahuquluzi think of nothing but themselves. AMANDLA

2014-08-12 04:49:33.0 | 0 replies

Pointman

You make excuses for them.

2014-08-08 10:10:26.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Who have I made excuses for Pointman?

2014-08-08 10:24:47.0 | 1 replies

Pointman

For Islam. The koran and hadiths are a terrorist manifesto.

2014-08-08 10:34:03.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Are we talking about the terrorists America funds and arm or Islam here?Im confused now.

2014-08-08 10:37:39.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

They are just butchering left right and centre there. Between Iraq, Iran, Niigeria, DRC and Syria, the 'Crusades' are starting to look like a Sunday picnic. Scary assed stuff. The moderate Muslims are being wiped out and the fundamentalist lunatics are taking over

2014-08-08 09:38:40.0 | 0 replies

Solm

It's touching for Christians to now come up and start voicing their concerns now that these thugs are targeting them in Syria and Iraq.When these thugs (armed and supported by Christian countries) were butchering Muslims these voices were silent.They were silent in Syria, silent in Iraq.As soon as these thugs lay their hands on Christians....now the voices find traction.The hypocrisy is astounding here.

2014-08-08 09:41:27.0 | 2 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - Native Christians to Syria and Iraq unfortunately have never been a part of any "terrorist thugs". They have mostly been persecuted in modern times. The hypocracy is astounding? Or perhaps you can only support 1 cause at a time? We can actually comment about more than 1 issue at a time :P

2014-08-08 09:48:27.0 | 1 replies

Solm

@ytieduniS I asked why you were silent when these thugs were butchering Muslims?Where were you?Why wait until Christians get targeted before you open your mouth?

2014-08-08 09:55:16.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - I was not silent when the thugs butchered the Muslims. I was pretty vocal about it on reddit. Are you new to Sowetan or something?

2014-08-08 10:08:23.0 | 1 replies

Solm

What did you say?

2014-08-08 10:19:01.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - General hippy s**t.

2014-08-08 11:08:51.0 | 1 replies
2014-08-08 11:10:39.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - Indeed. You can search for my comment on reddit.

2014-08-08 11:20:30.0 | 1 replies

Solm

I know it would suit the Zionists to frame this conflict along religious lines as Muslim vs. Jews or Islam vs. Judaism.The truth is not all Palestinians are Muslims.There is a sizable number of Palestinian Christians who suffer under the same fascism.But their fellow Christians on the outside don't seem to be clued up about who is a bully in that region and who is a victim.They view this conflict the same way Israel wants them to view it, as a battle between a democratic state (Israel) and terrorists (Islamic terrorists).How tragic!How sad really!

2014-08-08 13:45:43.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

Why do you assume that either Sin or I are 'Christian'? I don't believe in any of your foolish religious fairytales. I also don't understand how 1% of the population can be called 'sizable'.

2014-08-08 14:18:58.0 | 1 replies

Solm

I don't assume, unlike you.I was talking about how Israel tries to frame this conflict.What you believe or not it's none of my business.

2014-08-08 15:24:44.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

So explain your remarks where you are either accusing us of being 'christians' or being 'zionists'?

2014-08-08 15:35:34.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Where did I accused you of being Christian? I accused you of being a Zionist apologist.

2014-08-08 15:50:11.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

Who do you want us to support in Syria, Iraq and other places? When that daft old sod, Gaddaffi was bombing his own people, the world got involved and now it was an 'illegal regime change'. Make up your blerrie minds!

2014-08-08 09:50:08.0 | 1 replies

Solm

No MammaC , the AU had a proposal to resolve the Lybian issue peacefully but got bulldozed by the West.What the UN approved was a no-fly zone.This resolution was used to effect regime change.

2014-08-08 11:15:10.0 | 2 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - AU is useless. Had they tried to mediate, then gaddafi would still be oppressing his people today.

2014-08-08 11:20:04.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

The AU couldn't resolve an argument between a snail and a tortoise! They are toothless. I agree that NATO overstepped their mandate. I even said at the time that their actions would be disastrous for any future UN actions. What I don't agree with is that they caused a 'regime change'. They didn't start the civil war, they simply ended it.

The 'west' didn't want Gaddaffi overthrown! He was doing what they wanted him to do. It was the PEOPLE who wanted the sod out.

2014-08-08 11:28:22.0 | 1 replies

Solm

When you arming and funding rebels from Lybia and surrounding areas, it qualifies as regime change.

2014-08-08 11:42:31.0 | 2 replies

Solm

Ended a civil war? Really? Have you paid attention to what's happening in Lybia now?

2014-08-08 11:43:49.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

I am arming nobody! I'm not the one who was dropping bombs on my own people. Your memory is VERY short or you are VERY young. The AU didn't want to go into Libya. They tried everything not to go into Libya. It was only when the Libyan government tried to stamp out dissent with violence that they became involved. In the beginning, none of the Libyans had arms (other than the AK47s that every one of them seems to have for some obscure reason). It was only when the Libyan army started to defect over to the 'rebels' that they got any real firepower.

2014-08-08 11:49:44.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

... sorry, meant UN, not AU

2014-08-08 11:50:55.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Gadhafi's sin was to propose to sell Lybian oil in other currencies other than dollars.This was the reason he was deposed.Your West or UN doesn't give a hoot about Lybians.Now these rebels with guns and money are turning on each other and dividing Lybia into 3 regions.What happenes to the oil fields meanwhile? The West has that covered, they safeguarding them and looting it.They wanted Lybia fragmented as it is and chaotic so there would be a pretext for them to be in Lybia and keep looting the oil.When I read last week that South Africa is on the verge of discovering huge oil and gas fields.I said to myself here comes trouble.Hier kom kak.They going to come for this oil and destabilize us like what's happening in Nigeria.

2014-08-08 13:55:43.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

Oh don't be silly! The last thing that Europe wanted was instability in Libya. If you look on a map, you will see why the 'west' got involved. It is on their back doorstep! This isn't somewhere obscure, it is across a very small sea from them. They had to do something.

Whilst Gaddaffi was in power, they were able to keep down illegals crossing the sea, they were able to trade with Libya and they were able to (within reason) control what was happening. The 'Arab Spring' put a stop to all that.

Nobody cares what currency you sell oil in. I also can't understand how a French led Nato force would care that they didn't want to use US$. Hell, the USA didn't care! The barrel price would still be quoted in US$ anyhow. The price is quoted in US$ but the currency used to pay for it is upto the buyer and seller.

2014-08-08 14:28:07.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Had to do something? This Europe you talk about leaves mayhem wherever it goes.They went Afghanistan and left chaos there, went to Iraq and left chaos there, went to Lybia and left chaos there, went to Syria tried and failed to cause chaos there (thanks to Russia, Iran and China).Dont give me this 'they had to do something nonsense' like they care about people in these countries.They just don't care. The Arab Springs started off without Western hands, it was hijacked by them and redirected before it could get to the corrupt Arab leaders like Saudi and Gulf States.It was redirected from getting to states who are in good books with Israel and redirected to states opposing Israel in that region.This is why it got redirected to Syria.Gadhafi disarmed and scrapped his nuke program and was friends with the West.His biggest crime was to have a say on how the Lybian oil should be sold.He was removed. No oil is sold in dollars.Changing the dollars is what Russia and China are pushing for now.They want individual countries to decide how they pay for oil.This is how the US is able to unilaterally sanction countries, it's because dollars are used.Without this leverage, these sanctions would be meaningless.

2014-08-08 15:38:10.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

Are you American? Few other people have so much problem with geography.

Yes, dear. The 'west' lit poor matchstick Mohammed on fire and started the whole thing. It was the 'west' who took Mohammed's trading goods and it was the 'west' who made him upset enough to become the start of the whole Arab Spring. Those damn 'west'! We should all take out the tinfoil hats so we don't have the same fate. (do I need the sarcasm sign?)

The oil cartels decide how to sell the oil. OPEC doesn't care what the colour of the money is, they just care that it adds up to the amount they ask for. The use of US$ as common trade currency doesn't mean anything to the USA. They don't make any money from it. The only thing that the use of the US$ as trade currency has done is to artificially keep the currency stable. You don't pay some kind of tax to the USA every time you make a transaction

2014-08-08 15:46:15.0 | 1 replies

Solm

You can downplay it all you want.Its not going to change anything

2014-08-08 15:53:51.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

???? downplay what ???? The Arab Spring started because people were sick and tired of the dictators and the USA doesn't give a damn if you sell oil in Empire Credits. There is nothing to down play

2014-08-08 16:14:36.0 | 1 replies

Solm

I'm in the energy industry, I know how this industry works.

2014-08-08 18:53:34.0 | 0 replies

ytieduniS

The 72 hour ceasefire was again ended with hamas firing rockets.

2014-08-08 08:59:40.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Yes Hamas ended it because Israel refused to LIFT THE BLOCKADE!

2014-08-08 09:32:06.0 | 2 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - Isreal said hamas must disarm before it will drop the blockade.

2014-08-08 09:35:21.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Who the heck is Israel to give orders?

2014-08-08 09:45:12.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - Who the f*** is hamas to give orders? You seem to forget that the west bank was won in a war. When all of the muslim states tried to wipe isreal off the map. Isreal returned oilfields to Egypt and land to Jordan, which is why those 2 countries are now non-hostile.

2014-08-08 09:50:08.0 | 2 replies

MommaC

Palestine never owned the West Bank to start with! It was part of Syria. Israel took the area when Syria tried to invade them from that area.

2014-08-08 09:53:55.0 | 2 replies

ytieduniS

MommaC - Indeed.

2014-08-08 09:55:17.0 | 0 replies

Solm

@MommaC what happened before Syria attacked?Why are you leaving that part out? Do you have amnesia now?

2014-08-08 09:58:50.0 | 2 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - Isreal preempted the attack, and caught the Arab states off guard.

2014-08-08 10:04:10.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Good grief.What happened before that war?Can your memory go that far back or you just stuck on the war?What caused the war?

2014-08-08 10:07:10.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - What do you mean what started the war? The suez crisis of the 1950's? The arab states and their hostile intent towards isreal? The russians falsely telling syria that isreali's were amasing forces on their border? Or the PLO terrorist attacks to preempted?

2014-08-08 10:14:05.0 | 1 replies

Solm

You don't know what you talking about.You need to go read about the cause of this conflict.

2014-08-08 10:26:48.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - Those are the causes of the conflict. Why not rather state your reasons?

2014-08-08 10:38:13.0 | 1 replies

Solm

No they'd not.That's why you need to go read more.

2014-08-08 11:16:43.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - I ask again, why not rather state your reasons?

2014-08-08 11:19:00.0 | 1 replies

Solm

I gave you the breakdown of the conflict already.What more you want?LOL

2014-08-08 11:25:08.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - What breakdown? All I can see is you going "They not".

2014-08-08 11:30:51.0 | 1 replies

Solm

I gave you a 5 point breakdown of the conflict.This is the CAUSE of this conflict.Not the fantasies you imagining.

2014-08-08 13:59:47.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

I don't have amnesia but you seem to be reading from a very different history book to the history that I know.

2014-08-08 10:30:45.0 | 1 replies

Solm

@MommaC there is a difference between history and propaganda.You seem stuck on propaganda and you not prepared to hear anything or anybody else.

2014-08-08 10:39:57.0 | 2 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - And yet its obvious where you derail from the train, and jump on the propaganda bandwagon.

2014-08-08 11:08:12.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

So you are saying that your 'propaganda' is right and my 'propaganda' is wrong? How about going there and seeing for yourself? How about delving into the news archives (both pro and con) and making up your OWN mind?

2014-08-08 11:29:59.0 | 1 replies

Solm

If you got facts and know what's happening you don't need propaganda.Propaganda melts when faced by the truth.

2014-08-08 18:55:29.0 | 0 replies

Solm

At least lets know what we talking about here first.Hamas is in Gaza not West Bank for goodness sake.What are you going on about here?You like a broken record.

2014-08-08 09:57:32.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - You were talking about blockades. And there are numerous blockades in place. Isreal/Egypt blockade, westbank, gaza.

2014-08-08 10:15:04.0 | 1 replies

Solm

I know Egypt is also blockading Gaza on the Rafah crossing, Egypt is allied with Israel.For their support of Israel the US gives Egypt aid amounting to billions of dollars every year.

2014-08-08 10:29:30.0 | 2 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - No, Egypt is not allied with isreal. They merely have a non aggression pact. Isreal achieved this by returning the rich oilfields it annexed in the 6 day war.

2014-08-08 10:30:55.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Egypt is allied to Israel.I like this ' they merely have a non aggression pact'.I don't know who you trying to take for a ride here.

2014-08-08 10:42:34.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - I have the UN documents to prove it: http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/0B7F420B29A7A8F485256CD9007039B4

2014-08-08 10:54:43.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

Go to Egypt and hear what the PEOPLE of the country say about Gaza. This constant excuse about 'America' has nothing to do with the decisions that Egypt makes. You also forget that America gives Egypt money for their military BECAUSE Israel wiped their airforce out. America gives Egypt money for the same reason that they protect Israel - it was the only way to stop that particular war!

2014-08-08 10:34:27.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Bull! Egypt started getting money after it agreed not to fight Israel anymore during the Camp David Accord.

2014-08-08 10:45:14.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

Do you remember the Yom Kippur War? Do you remember the world watching as the talks broke down when Kissinger was trying to broker peace?

2014-08-08 11:34:01.0 | 1 replies

Solm

That was BEFORE the Camp David Accord.You not only have amnesia but have a problem with chronology too.

2014-08-08 11:45:37.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

Of course it was BEFORE. What do you think they do? Negotiate before the damn thing takes place? Damnit boy! Where were you at the time when all this was happening? Don't you remember any of it?

2014-08-08 11:52:44.0 | 1 replies

Solm

I know about all the Arab-Israeli wars.I also know the CAUSE you so conveniently forget.My mind is not one-sided like yours.

2014-08-08 14:02:32.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

LOL - you are so one sided, you could be a shadow of a shadow!
If you know all about the Arab-Israeli wars then why don't you seem to know anything about the various attempts to stop them?

2014-08-08 14:30:26.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Because I want to look at the CAUSE of this conflict, not this marry-go-round you want us to focus on.I won't fall for this ploy of burying the cause of this conflict with side issues.You won't win there.

2014-08-08 15:41:12.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

Do you know what the 'cause' of apartheid was? Does anyone care? It was the effects that caused the war. Stop chewing on cold stew!

2014-08-08 15:47:31.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Of course I care. If you were a victim you would care.

2014-08-08 15:55:24.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

so you think apartheid was a good thing because it revolved around the preservation of cultures. Then why did we fight against it?

2014-08-08 16:12:05.0 | 1 replies

Solm

I give up.Cheers

2014-08-08 18:56:07.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

bull! Hamas resumed throwing rockets because they are the pawns of the surrounding countries and they want the world media to keep looking at Israel instead of noticing all the (far worse) atrocities that they are committing.

2014-08-08 09:40:33.0 | 1 replies

Solm

No! You spend too much time listening to Israel.You don't give a hoot what Hamas says.Everybody else is a problem except your Israel.This is the problem.

2014-08-08 09:47:13.0 | 2 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - Your problem is, you are so invested in palestinian politics and propaganda, that you refuse to see the other side of the spectrum.

2014-08-08 09:50:58.0 | 1 replies

Solm

I'm invested in propaganda?LOL.I think this applies to you more.I know all about Zionist propaganda.The same propaganda that justified Apartheid in this country.I know all about it first hand here.

2014-08-08 10:01:20.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - Yeah, heavily invested in the propaganda. I ignore propaganda, and try and discern the factual. You can cry "zionist sympathizer" all you want to, it still doesnt change your skewed views of what is going on there.

2014-08-08 10:07:10.0 | 1 replies

Solm

And your view is not skewed? You want facts? Let's go through them: 1) Palestinians before 1948 lived side by side with Jews for thousands of years, 2) Zionist came after WW2 and occupied Palestine by force, 3) Creating a Jewish state on Palestinian land and displacing Palestinians, 4) incompetent Arab leaders tried to recapture Palestine from Zionists but they failed due to the influx of volunteers from WW2 who help defend Israel, 5) since then US/UK/France have armed and supported Zionist Israel till today.These are the facts my friend.

2014-08-08 10:13:51.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - In the 1800's already zionists had established settlements in isreal. "Zionists" did not occupy isreal by force following WWII. Displacing palestinians? And yet, palestinians are living in isreal, and are even allowed to vote. Again, I remind you that the problem has always been palestinians refusal to form a 2 party state.

2014-08-08 10:18:24.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Before WW2 over 90% of the population of Palestine was Palestinians, Jews accounted 10%.After WW2 Zionists started flocking into Palestine in droves and kicking Palestinians out.These are historical facts.Not the fantasies you busy throwing around here as facts.It might work with those who know less, not me.

2014-08-08 10:55:03.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - Palestinians were not kicked out. And the jews flocked in droves because the British finally gave them a homeland. 10% of the population were jews? But you understand how when people flock into an area, then their percentage increases right? That doesnt mean that there are less palestinians.

2014-08-08 11:07:25.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Please go read history then we will come debate.Jewish gangs raided village after village clearing the Palestinians out.Palestine wasn't for the British to give Zionists, neither was it the UN's.

2014-08-08 11:20:15.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - Not true Im afraid.

2014-08-08 11:31:34.0 | 1 replies

Solm

I need to go now.

2014-08-08 11:46:19.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

Oh bullshit! If you have ever paid attention, I have blamed BOTH sides from day one! I think all you religious fruitcakes are tossed in the head. A large part of me thinks it may well be better for humanity if you do wipe eachother out!

2014-08-08 09:52:19.0 | 1 replies

Solm

@MommaC no you haven't.You are Zionist apologist.You don't give a hoot about Palestinians.As far you concerned, they brought this all on themselves.

2014-08-08 10:03:14.0 | 2 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - They did bring it apon themselves. Since the 1950's, Palestine has never been in favour of a two party state.

2014-08-08 10:05:35.0 | 1 replies

Solm

@ytiedniS you confusing two party state with two state solution.What is two party state?

2014-08-08 10:15:42.0 | 2 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - Do you need me to fetch my crayons to explain to you?

2014-08-08 10:19:46.0 | 1 replies

Solm

It won't surprise me that you still use crayons.

2014-08-08 10:48:46.0 | 0 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - "Two states for two peoples."

2014-08-08 10:20:34.0 | 1 replies

Solm

It's called a two state solution, not a two party state.

2014-08-08 10:49:51.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - Same thing dude.

2014-08-08 10:52:49.0 | 1 replies

Solm

No it's not.Two state solution means two separate states for Palestinians and Jews.Bring your box of crayons and take a red one out and we will call it Palestine.Take the black one out and we will call it Israel.Put these crayons side by side.Now that's what is called two state solution.Two party state means one Palestinians party (red crayon) and Jewish party (black crayon) living in ONE state.For one state draw a circle and put both red and black crayon inside the circle.This is called a two party state.There is ONE state in this scenario, while the first scenario has TWO state.Do you get it now?

2014-08-08 11:04:56.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - Dude, when I say two party state, everyone knows what Im talking about. Why are you playing duuumb? The one party being jews, and the other party being palestinians. Come now.

2014-08-08 11:15:52.0 | 1 replies

Solm

If your crayons can't help then I don't know what else to use or say.Anyway this two state solution is a smokescreen.Jewish settlements in West Bank proves this point.In another 20 years there won't anything called West Bank.So this two state solution is a load of crap.

2014-08-08 11:23:17.0 | 2 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - So you are in favour of removing the jews from isreal then? If that is the case, then Im afraid the jews have no recourse other than to defend itself.

2014-08-08 11:32:18.0 | 1 replies

Solm

THE JEWS ARE BUILDING SETTLEMENTS ALL OVER WEST BANK AND DISPLACING MORE PALESTINIANS AS WE SPEAK.Why are silent on that?

2014-08-08 11:48:35.0 | 1 replies

ytieduniS

Solm - Frankly, because we have tried for years to create peace in the middle east. We have been commenting about it for years, as if we can do anything about the result. Both sides refuse to budge. Both sides keep breaking their agreements. So, let them just wipe each other out. This is me, washing my hands of them.

2014-08-08 12:06:47.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

I agree, Sin. The only lasting solution would be to nuke the lot of them. The human gene pool could only be stronger for it. They are not worth saving anymore.

2014-08-08 15:13:01.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

Have you ever been to the West Bank? You have women sitting in the coffee shop discussing school lift clubs. Half the women are wearing veils and the other half are exclaiming 'oy vey!'. If Israel and Palestine would only try a little, they too could live like that

2014-08-08 11:42:46.0 | 1 replies

Solm

West Bank is full of roadblocks and checkpoints manned by Israeli soldiers.I wonder where this much talked about Palestinian state would be.LOL

2014-08-08 11:50:15.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

umm, if Hamas would stop blowing people up, maybe they wouldn't need those roadblocks?

2014-08-08 12:51:30.0 | 1 replies

Solm

For the last time.There is no Hamas in West Bank.You keep throwing your made up fantasies as facts and expect us to just swallow it.Its not that simple, not all of us are sheep here.

2014-08-08 14:05:30.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

?????? where did I say that Hamas controlled the West Bank ?????????

2014-08-08 14:31:03.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Read above.

2014-08-08 15:42:50.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

ummm - I re-read it. Where did I say that Hamas controlled the West Bank? Or do you think that there are no Hamas supporters in the West Bank?

2014-08-08 15:48:43.0 | 1 replies

Solm

It's there.Read again.

2014-08-08 15:56:19.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

why? It is still going to say the same thing.

2014-08-08 16:08:22.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

LOL - go look back at other articles and what I have said there. They are BOTH responsible for this. I have said that all along.

2014-08-08 10:36:26.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Both responsible? What the heck is that suppose to mean?Does it make sense to you to blame the aggressor and victim at the same time?

2014-08-08 10:47:41.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

Have you heard the arguments on both sides? They are stupid! You have Imams calling for the annihilation of anyone not of the Islamic faith and you have Rabbis claiming that the Philistines should be slaughtered.

Hamas puts rocket launchers on the tops of hospitals and schools and throws them at Israel like they are confetti. Israel thinks the best way to swat a fly is with a bazooka.

When Israel agrees to a cease fire, Hamas starts throwing even more rockets and then crying about Israel's response. Israel thinks that the life of one of their soldiers is worth twenty Palestinian lives.

Both sides seem to think that an 'eye for an eye' is the right way to go. Neither side wants to even contemplate listening to what the other side says. Both sides are so busy chewing over cold stew that they cannot move forward from the past.

YES, BOTH sides are wrong. BOTH sides need to stop. It takes two to tango.

2014-08-08 11:41:06.0 | 1 replies

Solm

You ignoring the cause of the conflict and making issue of side things.This lie that Hamas launches rockets on schools and hospitals has been discredited by journalists in Gaza.Israel spews this propaganda 24/7 and you pass it on as fact? Then you tell me you not Zionist apologist.LOL

2014-08-08 11:53:40.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

Yes they do. I wonder why you suddenly believe these 'journalists' on this but not on other things? Is it because it fits neatly into your theory?

Let us look at the 'causes' of the conflict:
On Gaza's side, they are packed in like sardines. It is positively claustrophobic. Part of that is due to the tiny territory and part of that is due to other countries pushing people into Gaza during the 1970s. They are, essentially, under siege conditions with no ability to interact with the world or trade. It is a giant prison where the 'warders' supply goods and electricity but keep the prison gates firmly shut. If the prisoners get rowdy, the guards come in and blixem anyone in arms reach.
On the Israeli side, every time they lower their defenses slightly, some fool blows up in a crowded market place. The sounds of the sirens and explosions from the 'iron dome' is enough to drive anyone insane. The majority of Jews in Israel are from - or descended from - the world war genocide so, they tend to take calls for genocide a bit seriously. Every person in Israel is trained and does army duty because their neighbours have been trying to kill them for about 70 years.

Have I left anything out?

2014-08-08 13:04:35.0 | 1 replies

Solm

No they don't and they never have.Israel spews these lies to justify bombing schools and hospitals.The killing of woman and children is the reason some Israeli soldiers refused to serve the Israeli Army.Go read why they left the army.Read their testimonies and not this junk from Israeli media. Really now?You call these side issues causes of the conflict? This is why I say you have amnesia, your memory has huge holes.This conflict goes way back after WW2.Look at Palestine before WW2 and after WW2, look at what led to the first Arab-Israeli war of 1948.As long as Zionists like you keep ignoring this cause and play the superficial blame game, this won't end.

2014-08-08 14:14:56.0 | 3 replies

MommaC

I AM NOT JEWISH.

I AM NOT CHRISTIAN

I AM NOT AN IDIOT WHO BELIEVES IN YOUR STUPID RELIGIONS

2014-08-08 14:32:38.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Why do you think I care what you believe? I don't care, it's your business.Why you telling me?

2014-08-08 15:44:44.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

..... because you keep pretending that I have some kind of religious nuttery bias in this. I don't particularly care if your dumbassed allah and their dumbassed god kill eachother. I am just sick and tired of you backward religious bigots using your fairytale books to excuse your idiotic behaviour!

2014-08-08 15:52:51.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Take it directly from me: I don't care what you believe.Its not my business.

2014-08-08 16:01:34.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

Well then stop insulting me by suggesting that I am stupid enough to believe in religious nonsense.

2014-08-08 16:05:02.0 | 1 replies

Solm

You brought it.I never accused you of being religious.

2014-08-08 16:10:02.0 | 1 replies

Solm

I need to go now.Cheers

2014-08-08 16:10:38.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

Cheers. Have a lovely weekend.

2014-08-08 16:16:46.0 | 1 replies
2014-08-08 18:57:28.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

Many things start wars. It is what keeps them going that is the problem! Stop living in your great grandfather's lifetime and get into the 21st century!

2014-08-08 14:33:39.0 | 1 replies

Solm

Forgetting the cause would suit you very we'll isn't? This is your agenda.

2014-08-08 15:45:48.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

What 'agenda' ????????
You are the only one here with a vested interest. I don't have a horse in this race. Other than the fact that innocent children are in the middle, I don't really care which one of you kills off the other

2014-08-08 15:56:24.0 | 1 replies

Solm

We'll there is right and wrong in this conflict.There is a bully who took land by force and a displaced victim.Whether you like it or not, whether you accept or nit.That's the long and short of this conflict.

2014-08-08 16:04:39.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

So argue that instead of resorting to your nonsense about 'agendas' and 'you zionists' and other shiit.

I don't agree that it is as 'black and white' as you are making it out to be. I believe that both sides have a case and that both sides are wrong. I also believe that the whole taking of sides is what is keeping this silly war going.

2014-08-08 16:07:36.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/03/dont-use-me-reporter-admits-seeing-rocket-fired-from-gaza-hospital-then-blasts-pro-israel-media-for-quoting-her%E2%80%A8/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBKGOXfh94c

2014-08-08 14:55:41.0 | 0 replies

HelpGiver

Hamas is very manipulative and they have managed to even convince an Arch. Palestine = Philistine = Manipulative = victim = feel sorry mentality Hashem bless Israel, Genesis 12:3 3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

2014-08-08 09:59:40.0 | 1 replies

Solm

I don't think it's Hashem behind Zionism. Your loyalty is misplaced.

2014-08-08 10:05:20.0 | 0 replies

Jengele

"When religion overstood is poison" Nasty NAS.

2014-08-08 10:10:26.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

Religion is truly the greatest evil ever created by mankind :(

2014-08-08 11:44:38.0 | 1 replies

Jengele

Hence I always advise people to take it as some sort of pastime. Anyway MC enjoy your day tomorrow and hope your husband and family will make your day unforgettable.

2014-08-08 12:15:55.0 | 1 replies

MommaC

Thanks, Jengele :) I've already arranged that the 'men' are going to make lunch for us women. Luckily the husband and the daughter's boyfriend are both very capable in a kitchen

2014-08-08 13:06:02.0 | 1 replies

Jengele

LOL good for them, or no... good for you. It's great that tomorrow you will just snap your fingers and be serviced- enjoy.

2014-08-08 13:20:18.0 | 0 replies
2014-08-08 10:17:28.0 | 0 replies

s.cold

TUTU AKA SCARE SCROW O RATA GO BOLELA MPONDOMISE

2014-08-08 10:25:53.0 | 1 replies

Hosh6

Have some respect mageza, sowetan is not a taxi rank have respect dude.

2014-08-08 14:38:51.0 | 0 replies

SVR

Killing innocent woman and children is terrible but please don't try and feed us the same one sided nonsense that the media does, the real cowards are those that want to have war but want to fight it standing behind children, next to schools and from the roofs of hospitals.

2014-08-08 11:07:18.0 | 0 replies

MommaC

This is why I don't believe in these stupid 'gods' and 'allahs' and shiit. Bunch of twaddle made up by weak minded fools to justify their dumbass bigotry!

2014-08-08 14:36:36.0 | 0 replies
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