What was also revealed in the report, is how JZ drew money that was deposited into his schooling charity fund, for personal use. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Flemza
There is nothing new here , even Mandela, helped me as well , hence I`m a multi-millionaire lawyer, if it wasn`t for Mandela, I still would be oppressed and as poor as ever, so Mandela did not help Zuma only, he helped most of us black diamonds Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
kabelo110
Copy and Paste Journalism. Tzek sowetan.
Zuma is a failure, he cant seem to do anything right. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
lindsay
so if it wasn't for these people this dude would have been insolvent a long time ago. and why did they borrow or give him money for? Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
"Builder Eric Malengret told the Shaik trial that Shaik had exclaimed: "Does he [Zuma] think money grows on trees?"" Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Tasto_
Luke18:18 -20, not Saint\Angel has ever walk this Earth !!
PS - I start to rethink&believe the Prophecy of Christ's return by honounary pastor JZ !! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Dandan
Is this a media trial or what, is the media reviewing Zumas trial, it is very disturbing that Mail&Guardian was banned by PW Botha for these shananigans , the owner banned again by Mbeki , this is a threat to democraccy , incite of civil w.ar , he has no care since Zim has already been destroyed Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Zimzalabam1
Yet ur late again Sowetan.This was published by the Mail&Guardian.....ALwys behind damn!t Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Dr.Head
Both Mandela and Zuma served parallel sentences to free our people from aparteid slavery. They both struggled for our freedom. Mandela undertands the sacrifices and challenges Zuma went through and he will support him. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Tasto_
@Dandan
Is this a media trial or what, is the media reviewing Zumas trial, it is very disturbing that Mail&Guardian was banned by PW Botha for these shananigans , the owner banned again by Mbeki , this is a threat to democraccy , incite of civil w.ar , he has no care since Zim has already been destroyed
Funny in the late 1980s @evry compass a copy of M&G under your armpit was considered a status of Political pedigree neh? Most progressive residence always a copy in their common rooms funny how this quickly change!!
Different strokes for different folkes ? Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
MsKinkyakaKamaSutra
The report says large commercial banks bent over backwards to accommodate Zuma because of his political position, writing off bad debt against his name.
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Fukc........... it is not only teh judiciary even banks
and i bet only Zuma and Mandela were jailed other were just hosted Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
queenies
so what is wrong with borrowing someone money? Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
MsKinkyakaKamaSutra
@!#Sinudeity#!
What was also revealed in the report, is how JZ drew money that was deposited into his schooling charity fund, for personal use.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was about R2mil or more that he got from Mandela under the guise of the JZ Foundation
@Flemza
There is nothing new here , even Mandela, helped me as well , hence I`m a multi-millionaire lawyer, if it wasn`t for Mandela, I still would be oppressed and as poor as ever, so Mandela did not help Zuma only, he helped most of us black diamonds
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Wish he could have helped yuo to stop smoking your shoes and read stories with understanding
Multi-milliionare Lawyer........... I bet you got those million by defrauding RAF Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Tasto_
Ppl the article say Mandela repriminded Zuma abt his lifestyle&finances and under strict & confidentialilty was he prepared to help him with once off debt settlement.Only adter his axin "isimo sishubile" did he approved the amount !! Hope it was his personal account not Chikldren's Fund !! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Moffdat
MsKinkyakaKamaSutra
@Flemza
There is nothing new here , even Mandela, helped me as well , hence I`m a multi-millionaire lawyer, if it wasn`t for Mandela, I still would be oppressed and as poor as ever, so Mandela did not help Zuma only, he helped most of us black diamonds
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Wish he could have helped yuo to stop smoking your shoes and read stories with understanding
Multi-milliionare Lawyer........... I bet you got those million by defrauding RAF
====================================================
LOL play nice! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Dandan
@Tasto_
you must be suffering frm selection amnesia , why Mbeki banned the owner at sabc Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Tasto_
@Dandan - owner of what do you mean owner of SABC? Damn things are happening very fast in SA didn't know it has bee privatised not sure abt ANC shares in it though!!
So they gang against Mbeki, dropping of the charges was Poltical not Legal jesses !!
Just saw an article that people of Nkandla prefer IFP than Zuma. How should we trust him while his neighbours dont trust and believe in him. IFP just won a ward in Nkandla where Zuma lives ijooooooooo
its clear Im arguing with with silly,ignorant ,stupid ,fool, you dont know m&g owner was banned at sabc , you are very young boy ,go sleep Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
MommaC
He was bought and paid for. Did he learn his lesson? Not a donner. Now he is selling himself to the Gupta clan Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Tasto_
@Dandan - plse for my beneffit and otha bloggers furnish proof to refresh my memory instead of throwing insults!! Go to yr Mangaung farce !!
moloi_o_montsho_black_witch
Chicken coming home to roast.
Just saw an article that people of Nkandla prefer IFP than Zuma. How should we trust him while his neighbours dont trust and believe in him. IFP just won a ward in Nkandla where Zuma lives ijooooooooo
dnt be fooled by these, it has alwys been neck2neck btwen 2 parties, nxt by-election wll be anc, for all these years eva since by-elections were held it been 2hourse race so chilex. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
Dandan - If SABC banned Trevor Ncube, then he is a hero.
SABC is now just a bunch of @ssl1ckers, controlled by the ruling party, who pushes their own agendas to ensure that only an ANC sanitized news and messages are broadcasted to the masses. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
McKena
I could just imagine , TATA giving Zuma the Money and saying .
Kwedini ndithi hlukana nabafazi abaninsi, Nalentwana u Thabo iidikwe nguwe ngoba utya lemali yalezizibhanxa zalapha eSouth Africa ngo no Kroyi. Asitye le mali bangaboni. Vula i Trust Fund sitye lemali kakuhle sibhanxa ndini !!!!!!! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Shredder
@ Tasto - Luke 18:18-20
And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
Luke 18:21-23 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
asaowe - "dnt be fooled by these, it has alwys been neck2neck btwen 2 parties, nxt by-election wll be anc, for all these years eva since by-elections were held it been 2hourse race so chilex."
Means that JZ's hometown doesnt have confidence in him. And here the ZUMA FANBOYS are perpetuating the belief that JZ is the messiah :P
Shame, the messiah's hometown rejected him. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
MGEEZ
@Dr.Head
Both Mandela and Zuma served parallel sentences to free our people from aparteid slavery. They both struggled for our freedom. Mandela undertands the sacrifices and challenges Zuma went through and he will support him.
===============================================================================
So now you have appointed yourself to be Mandela's spoke person????Interesting!!! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Tasto_
@Dandan - you have been played & beaten in your own game you were so focused to Mangaung & 2nd term with benefits if this is not check-mate brace yourselves and reserve your energy from throwing insults!! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
asaowe
!#Sinudeity#!
asaowe - "dnt be fooled by these, it has alwys been neck2neck btwen 2 parties, nxt by-election wll be anc, for all these years eva since by-elections were held it been 2hourse race so chilex."
Means that JZ's hometown doesnt have confidence in him. And here the ZUMA FANBOYS are perpetuating the belief that JZ is the messiah :P
Thabo Mbeki had no chance against this guy. I'm not sure why the old man would back such a clearly compromised individual to be SA prez. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
imfene
It is easy to criticize. But I think a better approach is to present a well thought out path to the future which would benefit our children. Whoever can do this will succeed. None of the parties are doing this, they are only capable of squabbling like children. This vacuum is dangerous, as it allows for the Idi Amin, Hitler, Mugabes of the world. It is my hope that Mr. Ramaphosa /Mr. Manual and the National Planning Commission move urgently with confidence (Zuma being just a figurehead.)
@Zabaragast
Thabo Mbeki had no chance against this guy. I'm not sure why the old man would back such a clearly compromised individual to be SA prez.
Maybe pity or error of judgement hoping he was gonna change after the once-off favour !! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Shredder
@Moffdat - iyhooo watch the dogs on sowetan have a feast with this one right here!
=======================================================================
It's not the first time I an ANC guy call other people dogs. The first one was Angie Motshekga, live on TV. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
JFK
old story , the M & G has run out of stories,trying to spread propaganda against him as the elective conference is so close , we could not be fooled by the pro D A media , the freedom of press , there are enjoying today was fought by the same Zuma and others,you can not fool the masses :A N C forever : even if Zuma is no more the President ,I will tell my wife , my children and relatives to vote for the ANC forever: he might be grade 2 , but he could not get the education he desired due to the
conditions he grew under,but he fought for the right of our childre to get the quality education like their whites counterparts which they were denied:but the very same beneficiaries of his secrifices precisely
the balcks who are previlledged because they were allowed to have access to former whites schools are calling him uneducated and the worse President ever but the white community still respect P W Botha and H F Vervoert despite their descriminative policies : wake up black south african before it is too late :
I respect you Zuma , Mandela , Sisulu , Mbheki , Sobukwe , Biko , Luthuli , Thambo and Others :
A gift of money is one thing. Stealing from tax paying citizens is unacceptable. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
MGEEZ
@queenies
so what is wrong with borrowing someone money?
============================================================================
Nothing!!!! but where in the story does it say that Mandela borrowed Zuma the money????? Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Tasto_
@Shredder
@ Tasto - Luke 18:18-19 - no one is good even Jesus was not good except G-d above, then who is Madiba ?
JFK
---
Your children is the exact reason why you should stop voting anc, look at what is happening with the country, imagine it in 7 years if the DA does not take over. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
MGEEZ
@BlackSeed
I was hoping to see comments that suggest a corrupt relationship between Madiba and Zuma but I guess I’ll wait my whole life for such.
Did Madiba help JZ out of gratitude?
We are even forced to remember him by placing his image on the Notes
I still wonder who rules the land, the skies and the seas
=================================================================================
Do you know something that we don't? Please spill the bins; it sounds interesting what ever it is that you want to share with us!!! Go ahead. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Blocked
"..Bands a make her dance, bands a make her dance
All these chicks clapping, but they aint using hands ..."
Mandela GAVE JZ money. No story there, because Mandela had then already been prez, so I don't think he was trying to gain anything from JZ. Now, the others are a totally different story. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
GODESS
Flemza
There is nothing new here , even Mandela, helped me as well , hence I`m a multi-millionaire lawyer, if it wasn`t for Mandela, I still would be oppressed and as poor as ever, so Mandela did not help Zuma only, he helped most of us black diamonds
*******************************************************************************************
Tjo Ntate wa batho, you are really full yourself, no offence mara i have been checking your comments and every time, you either brag about your 5 sons and the other one is a mine engineer, then that you are a lawyer, next thing you are a black diamond....Aikhona fokotsa papa, i dont rememeber any of the bloggers here revealing what their proffession is. Ai! wangena maan. please act your proffession, etla le menagano ya lawyer as you say you are. nx! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
moloi_o_montsho_black_witch
@asaowe
Hee wena lerete. A o tsebe sekgowa naaa?
Fool ke wena lego se tsebe sekgowa. The IFP won the election am not talking about the neck-to-neck. Am talking about what happens in the last 72 hours.
Dont tell me anout 2014 mosono
This isn't 'DA propaganda' unless the Auditor General is now employed by the DA.
This isn't even old news unless you knew about the writeoffs from the banks, the millions from Reddy and the million from Madiba Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Fanle
Does M & G ever right about the opressors flaws and flops? White owned paper trying to push their Agenda. We dont care if Mandela gave money to Zuma,Tambo or Mbeki. It really doesnt change our lives. Report Abuse
@oldlady12 - you know sometimes we are encouraged to invest it life cover & Hollard deathcover(if u r zebra) to look afta our loved ones when we depart this world, I do insunuate anything maar this "kusemhlabeni apa" !!
This isn't 'DA propaganda' unless the Auditor General is now employed by the DA.
This isn't even old news unless you knew about the writeoffs from the banks, the millions from Reddy and the million from Madiba
.........................
This is DA, stop denying it. DA is trying its best to get rid of Zuma. They see he is the strongest person in the ANC top leadership. They are trying everything: Tapes, vote of no confidence, Nkandla trips, stupid ratings by Lindiwe, etc. DA must stop this nonsense. It is embarrassing itself. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Dandan
@Tasto_
@Dandan - you have been played & beaten in your own game you were so focused to Mangaung & 2nd term with benefits if this is not check-mate brace yourselves and reserve your energy from throwing insults!!
=============================================
this is an old story , its a repeat , how old are you let me start there, geese , we know this story was there on sunday times in 2007 Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Disasterkid
There is someone who trying to brain demage us, Vote ANC!!! we dont care about who gave who money, becuase nawe ucorrupted in your own way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
SOLUTIONS
Fanle
Does M & G ever right about the opressors flaws and flops?.
-------------------------------------------
What stories would you want to hear? Report Abuse
At least she will never out do you on that either. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
MGEEZ
@Tasto_
@Shredder
@ Tasto - Luke 18:18-19 - no one is good even Jesus was not good except G-d above, then who is Madiba ?
=================================================================================
Jesus never said he was not good; he simply asked the young men: why does he call him (Jesus) good; because no one is good except God. It appears to me that you either deliberately are misrepresenting scripture or do not know scripture very well!!! My suggestion therefore is that, let not your loyalty for Madiba blind you to elevating him to bein an equivalent of Jesus the Christ Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
SOLUTIONS
Disasterkid
There is someone who trying to brain demage us, Vote ANC!!! we dont care about who gave who money, becuase nawe ucorrupted in your own way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------
Huh, sorry what did you try to write here? Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
Fanle - "Does M & G ever right about the opressors flaws and flops?"
Dude... Dont be ignorant. M&G was the voice of the nation during apartheid. Even when the apartheid government had its secrecy laws in place, M&G was exposing the apartheid government. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
JFK
Solutions : I thought your name would suggest a solution rather than an oportunistic comments about the ANC , you see the poor standard of edication could not be placed over the sholders of the ANC there are quite a nubmer of factors contributing to such situation any way , I am not in the field of education by profession : the D A would like to keep the status quo : leave the black kids poor and empower the white kids but the ANC is trying to balance the two :close the gab between the blacks &
whites: viva ANC viva my beloved Umbutho we Sizwe our libarators from H V Vervoert and P V Botha
and others before them : Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
MommaC
Fanle
Does M & G ever right about the opressors flaws and flops? White owned paper trying to push their Agenda
Fanle - "White owned paper trying to push their Agenda."
M&G is owned by a black dude. Trevor Ncube. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
Eish, the buuutt-hurt ANC fanboys are SCRAMBLING today :P Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Tasto_
@MGEEZ
@Tasto_
@Shredder
@ Tasto - Luke 18:18-19 - no one is good even Jesus was not good except G-d above, then who is Madiba ?
=================================================================================
Jesus never said he was not good; he simply asked the young men: why does he call him (Jesus) good; because no one is good except God.
Why attacking zuma like these, I am not a fan of zuma, but the way the president is being attacked i think is too much, he deserve a break, all in all he is a human being who make mistake just like you and me. we must give a man a break for the sake of our country, we cant keep on attacking a president like these. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
skwamasamabele
Like I've been writing on this blog all along, from Mandela to Zuma, there has never been visible transformation in our lives from apartheid to 2012. I call on all normal ANC supporters to demand for a change in the set-up of the NEC at Mangaung, which currently comprises of broerskaps (Exiles). Otherwise we are heading for Zim-incarnate, and a prospect of civil strife is very real Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
SOLUTIONS
JFK
Solutions : I thought your name would suggest a solution rather than an oportunistic comments about the ANC , you see the poor standard of edication could not be placed over the sholders of the ANC there are quite a nubmer of factors contributing to such situation any way , I am not in the field of education by profession : the D A would like to keep the status quo : leave the black kids poor and empower the white kids but the ANC is trying to balance the two :close the gab between the blacks &
whites: viva ANC viva my beloved Umbutho we Sizwe our libarators from H V Vervoert and P V Botha
and others before them :
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets start with the level of education or "edication" that you are talking about, who is H V Vervoert and P V Botha.
So the anc is trying to close the gap by not being able to supply books in 2 provinces while the WC has the best pass rates and best model schools. Your anc is keeping the voters like yourself uneducated or should it be unedicated like you would say. You see the uneducated are more gullible and can not make up their minds to know that corruption is wrong. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
MommaC
JFK
..... and the ANC is doing a brilliant job. The kids even got their books within the year. May have been 10 months late but they got them. They also have classrooms now. They may be falling apart, have no water, toilets, electricity or roofs (and sometimes no walls) but they are classrooms Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
lindsay
@JFK
Solutions : I thought your name would suggest a solution rather than an oportunistic comments about the ANC , you see the poor standard of edication could not be placed over the sholders of the ANC there are quite a nubmer of factors contributing to such situation any way , I am not in the field of education by profession : the D A would like to keep the status quo : leave the black kids poor and empower the white kids but the ANC is trying to balance the two :close the gab between the blacks &
whites: viva ANC viva my beloved Umbutho we Sizwe our libarators from H V Vervoert and P V Botha
and others before them :
......................................
seriously one can see why you are not in the education field. and you mean the poor standard of education given to our children is going to close the gap? give me whatever you are smoking it works Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
vampire1 - F*** off! JZ deserves to step down! He deserves F***ALL BREAKS! Report Abuse
"the D A would like to keep the status quo : leave the black kids poor and empower the white kids"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I very much doubt this. Pure propaganda to mislead un educated people.
Now question we should be pondering instead of tearing @each other , are the SPY TAPES existing? Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
MsKinkyakaKamaSutra
JFK
Solutions : ................................
ANC is trying to balance the two :close the gab between the blacks & whites: viva ANC viva my beloved Umbutho we Sizwe our libarators from H V Vervoert and P V Botha
******************************************************************************
Balance the gap........... or you mean widen the gap???? Non delivery of school text books (does not balance the gap), underresourced schools (does not balance the gap), no payment of terachers (does not balance the gap), the list is endless
The ANC is disempowering kids ........................
imfene - Yeah, 'wit gevaar'... the only fear the ANC can hope to have people cling onto for support. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
mzobhozo
Grade 4 journalist like Zuma Copy and Paste City Press Article as it rubbish newspaper, actaully this newspaper need to change the name and coraborate with Daily Sun NXA! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
MommaC
mzobhozo
Are you a product of Angie's education system?
Try READING Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Tasto_
mzobhozo, danddan & dj wherever u are, plse go easy on Webteam&Ediotor.M&G ran the story and we downdloed the document from their site for our weekend read. U barking the wrong tree boys maar ngiya verstaan mabekudlalile\u have been played outwitted neh ?
Tasto_
@Dandan - my comlade u so quiet or u concede this could be possiblely an inside job to avail classified material U have been PLAYED neh!!
Mangaung is gonna be dirty&deadly literaly!!
==========================================
this thing is old , sad that only you who is not aware of it, mangaung has traumatised you , in such an extent you cant remember . we are nt talking mangaung anymore , all we are talking is who will replace Tokyo,Mashatile,cassel, Thandi modise, Mayor of Jhb &Pta , all must go and form their party if nt happy with Zuma Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Tasto_
@Dandan
Tasto_
@Dandan - my comlade u so quiet or u concede this could be possiblely an inside job to avail classified material U have been PLAYED neh!!
Mangaung is gonna be dirty&deadly literaly!!
==========================================
this thing is old , sad that only you who is not aware of it, mangaung has traumatised you , in such an extent you cant remember . we are nt talking mangaung anymore , all we are talking is who will replace Tokyo,Mashatile,cassel, Thandi modise, Mayor of Jhb &Pta , all must go and form their party if nt happy with Zuma
This thing is old, what do you mean "dirty tricks in politics" ja bambelela siyajika wena!! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
skwamasamabele
vampire1- Of course they would attack JZ, if there was a state of emergency they would have all been hunted down and murdered. At least JZ and his govt can allow that level of tolerance, which we never saw from the NATS. Saying that though, you have to admit JZ is doing himself and the ANC no favours at all. I (and my family) fought in the Struggle and we are yet to see (economic) freedom. I would support anyone who advocates for the removal of the current NEC at Mangaung, and you should do the same. I would support the ANC for life Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Garanteni
A poorly written article that has resulted in the even more poorer response in defence of Zuma from Dandan and JFK, they are not completely uneducatable they just whole heartedly love the anc and Zuma specifically and that end up making them some sort of parrots of idea, they sounds like they are from UMrhabulo meeting where they have been taught how to sound intelligent in their arguments, I am sick and tired of anc claiming to have solely delivered freedom to a black person that was oppresssed in SA and everybody else was a spectetor in the struggle. I personally do not hate Zuma I just feel he has more flaws to be occucpying the position he is currently occupying, but anc candidate should decide I can still live with him,
@ Tasto I am enjoying your argument, keep them coming. Report Abuse
come on guys , you expose your ignorance about public administration and management , delivering of books is an administrative matter or a supply chain management matter , you think the president must call all schools to find out that if all principals had placed their oders for the following year, what
the head of the school , the circurt manager , the district manager , the head of department of education in the province would do : I think these are the people who are involved in the day to day running of the department , to blame the head of state , your are so desparate to find the mistake from the head of state : D A will never get my vote and of all people around me:
What's wrong with Zuma Kganthi? Why is he always having financial problems? He keeps making so many babes and marrying wives whom he can't afford. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
"The initial upgrade of President Jacob Zuma's Nkandla homestead was funded by donations and arms deal-related payments when it was clear that Zuma didn't have the funds to pay for it, a confidential forensic audit report has revealed." Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
MommaC
JFK
so if your employees don't do their jobs then it isn't your problem? Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
mzobhozo
Momma C
Are you a product of Angie's education system?
Try READING
these wooligan jornalist the think we 'r stupid by publishing the old story here and even worse copied from other newspaper rubbish man! we all know that politician are all corrupt including Nelson Mandela and Thabo Mbeki by killing his own son please man come on Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
This audit exposes ZUMA and his armsdeal bribes. It exposes the fact that a political solution was reached behind closed doors and secret deals made to drop his corruption charges.
To all anc supporters how did this article became a DA issue, do you guys have some proof to accuse DA of being behind this, or its just one of those comradely language? Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
MommaC
mzobhozo
they aren't wrong.
This was a Mail and Guardian scoop Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Winilen
This Story is long over due. I knew about it & it was crushed when it first came out because they did not want to involve Mandela to any scandals about the arms deal. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Mgaraji
Garanteni
A poorly written article that has resulted in the even more poorer response in defence of Zuma from Dandan and JFK, they are not completely uneducatable they just whole heartedly love the anc and Zuma specifically and that end up making them some sort of parrots of idea, they sounds like they are from UMrhabulo meeting where they have been taught how to sound intelligent in their arguments, I am sick and tired of anc claiming to have solely delivered freedom to a black person that was oppresssed in SA and everybody else was a spectetor in the struggle. I personally do not hate Zuma I just feel he has more flaws to be occucpying the position he is currently occupying, but anc candidate should decide I can still live with him,
_________________________
Good command of English language can make fool look smart. Smart look foolish. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
JFK
peace guys : I have won the debate : ANC forever Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Popeye
We live Black huh!! Blacks are confused…that’s why we have Mandela notes….a freedom fighter…son help son…one lie spoils a thousand truths. They call themselves leaders…I call them betrayals…tseeeek. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Stallion101
Hai, this is media way of making ZUMA Train famous again! MXM I wish this bastard get removed at Magaung or me and Madam Zille will remove him! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
JFK - You won nothing. Yelling while closing your ears and your eyes isnt winning.
come on guys , you expose your ignorance about public administration and management , delivering of books is an administrative matter or a supply chain management matter , you think the president must call all schools to find out that if all principals had placed their oders for the following year, what
the head of the school , the circurt manager , the district manager , the head of department of education in the province would do : I think these are the people who are involved in the day to day running of the department , to blame the head of state , your are so desparate to find the mistake from the head of state : D A will never get my vote and of all people around me:
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You see that is where you are wrong, the head of state must make sure the people do their jobs and if they fail they must get the boot, not a golden handshake and be moved to another department.
Don't vote DA, it is fine, DA don't like people who cant think for themselves, DA is a open minded party who does not want people to vote for them because of their legacy but for how they serve the people of the country. Only a m.oron will vote for people who is busy burning the country. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
mzobhozo
Momma C
they aren't wrong.
This was a Mail and Guardian scoop
i can c now u r also one of them, u don't come with your own article you just wait for intelligent Newspapers like Mail and Guidan to do the job for you so that you'll copie it, no researchers whatsoever in Sowetan anymore that y i said they need to change the name and be called Daily Sun Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Zabaragast
Tasto_
Could be. The old man is human, and he had anything to gain from Zuma, unlike Shaik and the Durban business community. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Stallion101
@mzobhozo I fully agree! Their name shuld change to Copytan or even better sex tan! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
MommaC
mzobhozo
Now why would a baker be writing articles about Zuma's loans? Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
motlantheforpresident
Is Mandela a registered money lender? Maybe he should borrow us money before his demise Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
16-12-1838
The brainwashed anc sheep are drowning on here today :) Your arguments are even more flawed and nonsensical than usual! In fact, the more you zombies try and defend the actions of your criminal masters the more ridiculous and unintelligible you ALL appear to be - exposing the true level of your intellect!
You are ALL fast becoming an embarrassment, not only to yourselves but to all decent, honest South Africans! The anc has become a sorry excuse for a political party, they are nothing but incompetent and corrupt...if you can't see that by now then you deserve to go down in flames with them!
Times are changing and people have had enough, FU.CK the anc!!!!!! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
SharpSharp
Can JZ lead the ANC and leave SA alone pleasssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Report Abuse
come on guys , you expose your ignorance about public administration and management , delivering of books is an administrative matter or a supply chain management matter , you think the president must call all schools to find out that if all principals had placed their oders for the following year, what
the head of the school , the circurt manager , the district manager , the head of department of education in the province would do : I think these are the people who are involved in the day to day running of the department , to blame the head of state , your are so desparate to find the mistake from the head of state : D A will never get my vote and of all people around me:
................................
and we said that ? we were responding to your hogwash actually about closing of a gap of which even you know the gap is becoming wider hence Angie's Rolls Royce and toyota example, you must just go to Auntie Angie and ask her to teach you, you are a special case.if uncle Zuma is such a thrifty spender why do the Anc allow him to be near state coffers. they know he is a spender and has never considered his financial situation before and has been "helped" in the past to mantain his lifestyle and who is "helping" him now to mantain his and his wives exurbitant lifestyles? Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
Thank you Mr Madiba for helping our president you're the holy man of God.
You see all ANC members are so kind. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Winilen
The spy tapes will never come out because it implicate lot of politicians & business people. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
MommaC
Winilen
Well Zuma always promised that he would 'not go down alone' and that he would 'spill the beans'.
Ironically, this new leak makes it vital for him to win at Mangaung. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
mzobhozo
Momma C
Now why would a baker be writing articles about Zuma's loans?
16-12-1838- Judging by your date of birth, how come you survived the Jurrasic Period?? Muppet. You offer no solution to the country's quagmire but spit vitriol about the ruling party. Did your party (NATS) faired any better from 1948?? errr....No. Most of us more intellectual that you'd ever be, but we dont write a book about it. I dont support corruption, but at least I have a SOLUTION!!! To get rid of current corrupt leadership. What solution are you offering?? go back to 1838??? At least Dingane had the right idea at the time: 'Bulalani Abathakathi!!' Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
MommaC
mzobhozo
Did you have a liquid lunch or a pipe one? Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Garanteni
skwamasamabele
16-12-1838- Judging by your date of birth, how come you survived the Jurrasic Period?? Muppet. You offer no solution to the country's quagmire but spit vitriol about the ruling party. Did your party (NATS) faired any better from 1948?? errr....No. Most of us more intellectual that you'd ever be, but we dont write a book about it. I dont support corruption, but at least I have a SOLUTION!!! To get rid of current corrupt leadership. What solution are you offering?? go back to 1838??? At least Dingane had the right idea at the time: 'Bulalani Abathakathi!!'
===================================================================================
skwamasamabele, I had to log in and just to kwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak at this, lol Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
LOL, even the FBI is investigating corruption in SA now... Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
"But the system has descended into chaos since new operators, Net1 UEPS technologies took over.
Net1 is jointly listed on the American Stock Exchange, the Nasdaq and on the JSE.
The US Department of Justice Criminal Division and the FBI have now teamed up to investigate possible corruption in how that company secured a R10 billion tender to issue grants here. "
Again, the ANC government taking R10 billion of South Africa's money, and dumping it into a foreign economy, when the work could have been done by Saffers.
!#Sinudeity#!
Again, the ANC government taking R10 billion of South Africa's money, and dumping it into a foreign economy, when the work could have been done by Saffers.
F*** the ANC.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Yet there is still the people who will support the criminals while they run the country into the ground, I wonder how much money has the anc government already moved to other countries where we could have been the beneficiaries. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
16-12-1838
@skwamasamabele
LOL....the response I was expecting, many thanks - your bitter vitriol has substantiated my argument perfectly...'a luta continua' indeed! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Fernie
People, go ahead and make lot of noise about the ANC and Zuma and not voting for ANC. Some of you (!#Sinudeity#!) are saying only stupid and/or uneducated people will vote for ANC. The sad truth is right now there's no opposition for the ANC and as things stand, it's ANC all the way. By the way I will vote for MY ANC. Go ahead and say what ever you like, it is your freedom of expression. Seeing that most of you are not happy with ANC, why don't you organise yourselves and start your own political party. Come 2014...ANC will win again.....
Fernie
People, go ahead and make lot of noise about the ANC and Zuma and not voting for ANC. Some of you (!#Sinudeity#!) are saying only stupid and/or uneducated people will vote for ANC. The sad truth is right now there's no opposition for the ANC and as things stand, it's ANC all the way. By the way I will vote for MY ANC. Go ahead and say what ever you like, it is your freedom of expression. Seeing that most of you are not happy with ANC, why don't you organise yourselves and start your own political party. Come 2014...ANC will win again....
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Why do you want to vote for the anc who is corrupt and keep the children of SA in the dark with bad education and no service delivery if you can vote for the DA which outshines them in everything? Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
skwamasamabele
16-12-1838- I think we operate on different planets here. I wont stop supporting the the ANC, but I wont support corruption, therefore I WANT TO SEE LEADERSHIP CHANGE. Is that too complicated for an intellectual like you?? I am hoping Mangaung would offer the Revolt I am looking for, therefore I dont need prophets of gloom like you telling me that I support my party religiously, hell no!! Report Abuse
Fernie - "Some of you (!#Sinudeity#!) are saying only stupid and/or uneducated people will vote for ANC"
I didnt say that. Not today anyways.
"The sad truth is right now there's no opposition for the ANC and as things stand"
LOL, thats only what ANC fanboys tell each other.
"why don't you organise yourselves and start your own political party. Come 2014...ANC will win again..."
Or a much simpler solution, vote anybody else. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Garanteni
@ Fernie, your frustration can be felt in your comment despite pretending that things are cool as they are well knowing they are not, people must just learn to take criticism, if I dare criticise what I see is wrong, I definately will need a thick skin to take all the insults I will immediately be subjected to, you need not to bother about people like Sinudeity, they more concern about their parties while pretending to be worried about the country. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
JohnStone
Firstly, there is no new story here. Mandela gave R 2 million, half went to Zuma and the other half went to King Goodwill Zwelithini. Mandela gave away this money because he too was given almost
R20 million by "well-wishers" (companies that decided to establish a Mandela Family Trust for the benefit of Mandela's children and grandchildren).
Of late we are seeing more and more "eplossive revelations about Zuma". But a closer look will reveal that these are controlled and sustained "revelations" that are not new at all. These so-called revelations are a mischievous trick by the fourth estate to dictate to ANC members as to who they should vote for.
During ShabirShaik's trial, the state alleged that Shabir gave Zuma R 2 million as corrupt payments, Shaik revealed Mandela as the source and that there was nothing corrupt about Mandela giving to Zuma some money to help pay off some debts. Zuma's home was quoted at R 1.3 million, after receiving aR 1 million from Mandela, Zuma applied for a R 900 000 bond, that is R 600 000 more than the quoted amount for building his home.
We are going to see more and more of this recycling of old stories, Zuma is again going to be subjected to a trial by the media, a phenomenon that started in 2003 when former National Director of Public Persecutions Bulelani Ngcuka assembled senior black journalist to tell them "how corrupt Zuma was", also that he was not going to charge him but would leave him to the "court of public opinion to dry and die a political death".
Well informed ANC members are not going to fall for such cheap tricks by the media that already believes that they are "ruling this country". Even if one does not support Zuma's candidacy, I would urge ANC members not to use these media leaks as reasons for not voting Zuma into a second term, the danger of ANC members being controlled by nefarious media leaks is greater than Zuma's 2nd term. Following, swallowing and acting upon media leaks amounts to surendering the ANC to media vultures.
Zuma and the current NEC had been given a mandate by the Polokwane conference. A trial by the media undermines the rule of law, equality before the eyes of the law. Once we allow it to happen to Zuma, then it will happen to Kgalema and those that will come after them, slowly but surely it will lead to the death of the ANC and a reversal of any gains we have had since 1994. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
MommaC
skwamasamabele
As much as I would LOVE to see a change at Mangaung, it isn't going to happen. The branches have all done their voting and it isn't for change Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
cornelius
A man who continually takes money from others is not a man, he is a parasite. When he is a influential political figure, and he takes it from corrupt businessmen like Shaik, who give the money for one reason only nl preferential treatment on government contracts, etc, he is corrupt, i.e. a criminal besides being a parasite.
And ANC supporters think he is fit to be president of the largest economy in Africa !!!!
It is only people who do not want law and order, honesty, and clean government, because they are benefitting from the current situation, who would want this man to continue being president.
Cry the beloved ( and once proud) country. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
Garanteni - "you need not to bother about people like Sinudeity, they more concern about their parties while pretending to be worried about the country."
I put my country first, unlike the ANC. Report Abuse
skwamasamabele - "I wont stop supporting the the ANC, but I wont support corruption"
If you support the ANC, you support corruption dude. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
SOLUTIONS
skwamasamabele
16-12-1838- I think we operate on different planets here. I wont stop supporting the the ANC, but I wont support corruption, therefore I WANT TO SEE LEADERSHIP CHANGE. Is that too complicated for an intellectual like you?? I am hoping Mangaung would offer the Revolt I am looking for, therefore I dont need prophets of gloom like you telling me that I support my party religiously, hell no!!
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But by supporting the anc you are supporting corruption and criminals, What if zuma stays president after manguang, are you still going to support corruption? Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Papage
Poor President, I feel sorry for him, why did he marry so many wives after all and so many children? Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Laqasha
Zuma lost his chance when that guy drew a picture of his amasende and hung it on the wall for the world to see. He should have sued that guy, that would sort his financial woes. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Dandan
@JohnStone
shame, they are running short of ideas, lol Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Laqasha
Amasende of the president were displayed for the whole world to see, cha bo! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Bohlale1
I am totally not in support of Zuma, his interview yesterday on Nations at work at SABC 2 got me thinking.. The poor guy is doing his best, just the cabinet, ministers, municipal managers etc... who are not doing this according to the way they supposed to be... Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
16-12-1838
@skwamasamabele
Well good luck to you my friend, I sincerely hope that Mangaung is going to be everything you wish for.
Somehow I doubt it though as their track record certainly doesn't offer much hope. Not wanting to continue being the 'prophet of gloom', especially as it is so close to xmas and all, but I fear your wish list will be ignored. All you will find in your threadbare stocking after Mangaung will be shiny boxes of empty promises and crackers bursting with false hope...once again!
However you are right about one thing - it will certainly be REVOLTING at Mangaung! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
JFK
John Stone well said:I wonder how much of our taxpayers money funded the Voeter Basoon[Dr Death] chemical warefare projects against blacks without any form of accountability , we know what the white led state did to us , we are not idiots : why you were quite during apartheid years , you were happy enjoying your previledges for whites only: Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
JFK - LOL, are you trying to use apartheid now to justify corruption?
What you are in fact saying, is that the ANC is like apartheid.
Ungashayi mfazi ngempama, umshaye ngepipi.A certain paster said that. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
MommaC
JohnStone
It would help if you read the report. You wouldn't be making so many errors Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
TheTrueWord
What is intriguing is that with all the financial woes then, JZ still continued to make babies and getting married. That just doesn't make sense. Unless if he knew that his position as a president will bail him out courtesy of Pravin. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
Hehehe, blame the media, throw around terms like 4th estate, 5th column...
Whatever...
Merely buuutt-hurt ANC sheep trying to spin their way out of a quagmire... They are scuttling. Like rats trying to flee a sinking ship. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
cornelius
@Bohlale 1 " the poor guy is doing his best " No, he is not, he is appointing people based on their loyalty to him not their integrity and competence, he ducks and dives legal proceedings against him, denigrates the consitutiton, incites MKVA to " defend" him, uses our money for his many wives and children and other luxuries, please do not make the mistake of seeing him as some sort of victim. His last resort always is to portray himself as a victim, in his 2 big court cases, in the Nkandla matter he almost cried in parliament. This fellow is just not presidential material. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
SOLUTIONS
MommaC
JohnStone
It would help if you read the report. You wouldn't be making so many errors
-----------------------------------------------------
I always tell him he types his a.ss off with with no real content and so many mistakes, it makes me think of a empty bucket making noise. He is one of those who thinks the more he writes(talks) the more intelligent he would sound. In the mean time people laugh at him for not getting the facts straight.
@JohnStone, what I am picking up in your argument is that Mandela is not the saint he is made out to be, R20 Million is a lot of money to be received by a politician without returning any favour, had this money been received by the very Zuma, there was gonna be a whole lot of racket, a debate for another day, some things may be deemed legally correct, but since Mandela has been used as the nation moral compass such amount put a dent in his name, you seem well versed in this, and defend the organisation from a more informed position, however those you defending seem to care less about the organisation but positions of power, I partly agree with you the media is in some mission to decide their darling candidate who should lead the organisation by bashing uMsholozi in the process. One thing for sure the organisation is slowly eroded, no amount of defending will save it from itself. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
JohnStone
@cornelius
A man who continually takes money from others is not a man, he is a parasite. When he is a influential political figure, and he takes it from corrupt businessmen like Shaik, who give the money for one reason only nl preferential treatment on government contracts, etc, he is corrupt, i.e. a criminal besides being a parasite.
And ANC supporters think he is fit to be president of the largest economy in Africa !!!!
It is only people who do not want law and order, honesty, and clean government, because they are benefitting from the current situation, who would want this man to continue being president.
Cry the beloved ( and once proud) country.
**********************************************************************************************************************
Many of us, I mean true ANC members, just happen to know and understand things deeper than your avarage Sinudeity whose political immaturity and emotional outbursts are fueled by half-baked stories from the media.
Zuma is not a parasite but a victim since birth. Zuma was denied a proper childhood, proper and equal education because he is black. When he resisted racist and unequal treatment, he was thrown into prison wherein he served 10 yrs. He served 10 yrs, not because he committed a crime, but because the criminal regime did not tolerate anyone who talked peace, freedom and equality for all South Africans.
After his release, Zuma had to go into hidding because the criminal regime wanted him dead, all these things were done without regard for his level of education, nonetheless, educated or not, he remained a "danger" to the apartheid project. Zuma had to flee into exile, he only came back into the country when the ANC was unbanned in 1990. When he came back, he was almost 50 yrs old, no job, no profession, no pension and no compensation for illegal arrest and imprisonment.
Yet Zuma is expected to live and die a poorman, just as the architects of apartheid had designed for him and millions of blacks. Zuma is expected to have an education, worse still, it is mostly those who benefitted from apartheid, people like Helen Zille and F W De Klerk who received a better education because they are white, people who got better paying jobs because they are white, people who had professions and money before they became politicians because they were white.
I refuse to persecute and judge Zuma, Mbeki, Mandela and other freedom fighters using the same scale I use for the privilleged whiteman. Even Mandela would have retired a pauper had he not been given loads of cash by foreign govts and companies who felt a bit guilty for apartheid. Codesa or Tutu's TRC should have made provision for those who were wrongfully imprisoned to receive the same benefits such as houses and pensions, their time in prison was done in the service of the entire South African populace. Zuma, Mbeki, Mandela and others were supposed to receive houses, pensions and land as a start.
Whiteman still has it nice. Even Mugabe realized it too late that indeed the terms of the Lancaster Agreement were only binding on the blackman's side, hence he did the honourable thing and confisticated the land from the thieves, murderers, enslavers and colonizers. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
comtsotsi
So what,? There is nothing wrong with helping a cadre in need,Mandela saw a leader in Zuma which is why he assisted our Honourable President.You mathafackas are just jealous nxxx zinja
I am also wondering if Flemza is what he claims to be, I have never heard a multi-millionaire bragging about being rich, imagine Motsepe, Oprah, Opheneimer,etc bragging on the blog that they are rich, I don't think they even have time to post their comments on the blog. MmMmMmMmMmMm Flemza dream on... Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Garanteni
@ JohnStone, not sure whether you have been appointed to deliver the Zuma lecture or its something you have picked up from Kgalema yesterday and you becoming emotional about it and doing a bad job. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
JohnStone - "Many of us, I mean true ANC members, just happen to know and understand things deeper than your avarage Sinudeity whose political immaturity and emotional outbursts are fueled by half-baked stories from the media."
Err.... the ANC internal processes isnt rocket-science dude. If the average ANC member can grasp it, then ANYONE can grasp it.
"Zuma is not a parasite but a victim since birth."
Awwww shame. Trying to play the Zuma-martyr card. Again.
This dude isnt a martyr, he's a parasite. A leech. He uses his comrades for money, and then throws them away. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
comtsotsi - LOL, and now the jealousy-card.
The comrades are pulling all the stops today. Wit gevaar, 5th columns, jealousy... Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
mavoz
PEOPLE should stop taking all the things that they read in the midia to head cause most of the are half the truth and some are bend to make the papers sell. Before you judge you need to know the truth first and have fact to support your conclusion Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
mavoz - This report was from the AUDITOR GENERAL dude, not a made up story by the media.
IF these stories are made up, why doesnt the ANC take them to the ombudsman? Could be, because they are not made up?
These anti-media arguments are lame, and ill thought of. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
mavoz
@!#Sinudeity#!
What makes you so sure that its true and do you have the facts to support your statement? Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Fernie
@Garanteni, apologies my friend....I'm not frustrated though. I do take criticism and for the ANC to improve, yes they must be criticise but not insulted. @Solutions, why should I vote for DA if I may ask? They didn't do much other than attacking the ANC and Zuma. They must come up with something. You know to me DA is Helen Zille. Do they have deputy president no. Y am I going to vote for ANC, when I come from we only got electricity around 1999 and running water and sanitation around 2004...my high school was a mud school but now it is a modern school. The service delivery to the whole of SA won't happen over night much it will happen and I think only the ANC can do that. I was also encouraged by the Census 2011 results. There's an improvement but not as fast as we want it to be. When it comes to the education of our kids my questions to you will be, what are you as a parent (if you do have kids) doing to assist? Do you attend school meetings? Are you part of the SGB? If yes, thats a good platform. At the end of the day, nobody is perfect and I won't comment much about Zuma and his wives plus children because I'm not familiar with his cultural practices and believes and therefore I can not judge him on that although I know that he's not the first man to be a polygamist and he's not the last one. Over to you friends..
mavoz - "What makes you so sure that its true and do you have the facts to support your statement?"
The report is from the AUDITOR GENERAL dude. This was the evidence that the NPA was going to use against JZ, before political interference caused his corruption charges to be dropped.
Shaiks was found guilty for the bribe he paid, as stipulated in the report.
It was found a few weeks ago, that the Reddy person paid for JZ's bond, as stipulated in the report.
Now, do you have any evidence that the report is not true?
Yup and so the cycle of abuse continues, the sorry tale of many a post-colonial African country! Just because the colour of the oppressors skin changes, doesn't make it any more acceptable I'm afraid. It is exactly that attitude of self-entiltlement and blatant selfish disregard for one's power base that has kept this wonderful continent back and has caused, and is still causing immeasurable suffering.
How can being a well connected freedom fighter justify mass tax theft, fraud and corruption? Hell if I had been an ordinary desperate youth who grew up in the townships of the 70's and 80's and faced the might of the Apartheid regime, with just stones, petrol bombs and serious risk of persecution - I would be incredibly disillusioned with how things have turned out. Still living in my matchbox house/shack, my kids with a lesser education than I received, no hope of employment, rampant crime, escalating cost of living, shambolic health care, a govt that still shows no regard for the majority of its citizens...I would be be very pi$$ed off!
Yet as long as those who were living in comfort in Zambia, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, London and even safe in the protected confines of Robben Island - are helping themselves to the spoils and milking this country for every cent possible, then I don't mind that! Even though I am now poorer, hungrier and more desperate for freedom than ever before? Because they deserved it, for it was not them who had to face the Buffels and Caspers?????
I'm sorry but your logic is flawed. How much longer can you and the anc keep flogging this tired old donkey? Time for change!!!!! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
mtsiri011
I will say it again, "not even 1 president of ANC has played an improving part in the growth of this country OR serve my community (SA) well, they turned it upside down. This corruption and cover ups are perpertuating, I personally dont not believe in a word written in the ANC manifesto, they have not achieved what should have achieved in a single year, they are very intelligent in criminal activities"
It is true that one rotten potato spoil the whole bag OR like father like son. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
imfene
JohnStone
The anc of today is definitely not the anc of my forefathers. This bunch of gangsters have no principles whatsoever and whether its rape or theft its ok because we will always have supporters who know not the difference between right and not right. Your children will be ashamed of your stand point. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Garanteni
@ Fernie, my bado if it sounded like I am refering to you personally, I have never seen you responding with foul language, I was refering to most anc supporters who seems to be diminishing into insults every time an opposing view is raised. I can relate to most of your post, not sure whether you called yourself after a place somewhere in Mpumalanga, after Ermelo, Lothair... Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
lindsay
@Johnstone
Zuma is not a parasite but a victim since birth. Zuma was denied a proper childhood, proper and equal education because he is black. When he resisted racist and unequal treatment, he was thrown into prison wherein he served 10 yrs. He served 10 yrs, not because he committed a crime, but because the criminal regime did not tolerate anyone who talked peace, freedom and equality for all South Africans.
hahaahahaha you are a comedian of some sort so the apartheid victimised Zuma as to not get educated but was biased on Mandela to get a degree damn what did his parens do to verwoerd ?so if you are a delinquent who can't manage your finances you better blame apartheid hahahahahahahaha keep them jokes coming Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Moffdat
Mandela has always had such a wonderful heart!
Madiba is awesome is what the focus of this conversation should be but nooooooooooooooooo!
Zuma this Zuma that get off Zuma's sack Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
SOLUTIONS
Fernie,
your message has lots of words but no content, you ask why vote DA,
DA has the best run city in Africa
The person who got Mayor of the year award over the whole world.
DA changed Cape town to become the best voted tourism destination in the world
Best Senior certificate pass rate
best schools
build more RDP houses in their term than the anc did.
the list goes on.
I actually are very involved with the school where my foster kid goes, I do not have kids of my own no, but the school he is in is a professional and very well established school, no government intervention needed, I will not put any kid into this governments school, you will put him so far behind.
Dude, you need to wake up and think of other kids if not your owns future, I mean, having a pass rate of 35%, what an id.iotic situation our education system is in. Once one of the best to this. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
Moffdat - Sorry boet, from here were not the ones sitting on Zuma's lap...
African National Corruption...ANC. NO ONE GOT THE FUTURE PLAN FOR THIS COUNTRY FROM ANC BOARD. EVERYONE GOT A FUTURE CORRUPTION TREE PLAN. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
JohnStone
@imfene
JohnStone
The anc of today is definitely not the anc of my forefathers. This bunch of gangsters have no principles whatsoever and whether its rape or theft its ok because we will always have supporters who know not the difference between right and not right. Your children will be ashamed of your stand point.
*****************************************************************************************************************
I agree with you on only one point; that "The anc of today is definitely not the anc of my forefathers". The then ANC of your forefathers was not in govt, the terrain has drastically changed and the chhallenges are totally different from what "your forfathers" faced.
The ANC, in its entire history, has had many phases and faces. There was a time when the ANC was like a cat on the couch (docile), but the formation of the ANCYL by Tambo, Mandela and Lembede radicalized the ANC which was faced with more brutality and repression by the racist white minority regime.
The current ANC leaders, not a 'bunch of gangsters' as you wrongly allege, are faced with a variety of challenges. In the past, it was easier to have an ANC that was seen as very morally upright because they did not have access to the same amount of resources as the current leaders are.
I have always argued against corruption, but also argued successfully that the democratic dispensation has placed our liberators at temptation's door. I always refer to Cde Zuma as a perfect example of how the past dictates the present and the future. Had Zuma not been denied an equal opportunity at life by successive white and racist minority regimes, maybe he would not have become a politician at all. Zuma has always said that he would have become a teacher, priest or lawyer had he gone to school.
Our democratic system limits the term of office to five years, internal party democracy also does not guarantee anyone a future deployment. So those who find themselves deployed for five years, they are to make the most in that five years, first they feather their nests, second they try and use the power they have to try and cling to power, that is human nature. Couple these things with a past that denied you an education, profession and business opportunity, then you have a recipe for disaster. Even if the liberators where not ANC, the same would still happen.
That is why I am arguing that those who sacrificed their lives in the quest for freedom where supposed to receive various forms of compensation so that they do not need to resort to other means to guarantee a good life after a shortlived political deployment.
It is easier for our white politicians and our young naive and uninformed black politicians to unfairly judge and criticize those that are in power now. Our white politicians who did not fight for freedom where only benefiting from the unfair, unjust system, by the time they joined politics, they already had a profession, a house and money.
Our young black politicians such as Lindiwe Mazibuko are beneficiaries of the struggles waged by Zuma and others, hence they went to multi-racial schools without being discriminated against, now they are free to join the DA and insult their liberators.
Hence I am saying, we were supposed to atleast level the playing field and compensate those that were wronged through wrongful imprisonment, exiled, denied an opportunity to live a normal life because they were busy fighting for our freedom.
Only Mandela was able to retire with no concern for tomorrow because some white people felt guilty and established a trust fund with almost R 20 million. The state spent almost R 29 million in ugrades, hence I am incenced when that liar De Klerk says "I only received R 100 000 worth of security upgardes. Yes, he already had a house with a wall, electric fence and cameras by the time the state came with upgrades. That is why in the 90s we did not complain and label Mandela "corrupt" when he accepted upgrades worth R 29 million.
The current levels of corruption has roots in the unjust system that created freedom fighters, who in turn did not have a normal life of education and a good well paying job. Anyone of us, put in that position with similar circumstances, would behave the only way, human.
My children will never be ashamed of me, they will be proud that I stood for something I believe in. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
SOLUTIONS
Johnstone,
Our young black politicians such as Lindiwe Mazibuko are beneficiaries of the struggles waged by Zuma and others, hence they went to multi-racial schools without being discriminated against, now they are free to join the DA and insult their liberators.
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You must really stop with your lies and go and see who the real liberators was, please go and google the referendum. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
imfene
JohnStone
I retract my statement of your children with an apology. Enjoy the weekend. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
JohnStone - And out comes the apartheid card to justify corruption :P
Especially love the part where you said, "I have always argued against corruption, but"
Thats not true, you are always defending corruption dude. Just like you are doing now. You blame the 'temptation' first, and then you say, because they spend time in prison.
Come on, confess to us, which one of the polokwane gangsters are you? Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
JohnStone
@SOLUTIONS
Johnstone,
Our young black politicians such as Lindiwe Mazibuko are beneficiaries of the struggles waged by Zuma and others, hence they went to multi-racial schools without being discriminated against, now they are free to join the DA and insult their liberators.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
You must really stop with your lies and go and see who the real liberators was, please go and google the referendum.
**********************************************************************************************************************
I do not need to read about my liberators, I know them, hence I write about them. Why do a google search when I know who Steve Biko, JZ, Chris Hani, Mandela, Sisulu, Mbeki, Tiro, Sobukwe are and were?
Do you want me to read things written by anti-revolutionery morons? I refuse because I know Ruth First, Lilian Ngoyi, OR Tambo, Joe Slovo Bram Fischer and Oom Beyers Naude. These are the people who fought for my and your freedom.
I also know King Makhado, King Shaka, King Dingane, King Hintsa, King Sekhukhune and many more who waged relentless struggles against a tyrannical, racist, murderous and oppressive regime.
I know about slavery, colonialism and exploitation, what do you know beside cow dung?
JohnStone - You know alot about the struggle, but you know nothing about democracy and good governance. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
JohnStone
@!#Sinudeity#!
JohnStone - You know alot about the struggle, but you know nothing about democracy and good governance.
***************************************************************************************************************
My dear, since you "know a lot about demon-crazy and good gevernance", I will vote for you if you contest for a job as janitor at the IEC offices in 2014. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
16-12-1838
@JohnStone
....um, what is it that you believe in again?
1) That corruption and theft is OK if you are a connected freedom fighter and have been denied social equity because at least you have history to blame for it?
2) That the ONLY ones who fought for freedom in SA are those holding senior positions within the anc, hence their justification for a prime position at the trough?
3) That all evil and wrongdoing, no matter how contrived and recent, is the direct cause of the actions of the white race?
4) That those young black professionals who are now successful, either in politics or commerce, because of their OWN hard work and dedication are not allowed to speak out against the destruction of their futures - as it is an insult to the very perpetrators of such selfish destruction?
5) All of the above?
You say a lot but I'm still just as confused, must be an anc thing? Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
JohnStone - Good, when JZ gets recalled, I will hire him to do my garden. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
16-12-1838
!#Sinudeity#!
I hear he's only good at digging a hole for himself ;) Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
16-12-1838
...oh yes and sticking his pick in holes, even disease ridden ones. But at least he showers! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
16-12-1838 - I honestly cant believe peeps are still defending JZ... Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
16-12-1838
!#Sinudeity#!
Blind allegiance and misguided endorsement of corruption and tax-theft by the faithful is what will bring this country to its knees. I know it was their aim during Apartheid but typical anc incompetence...still not achieved past the deadline (1994) and grossly over budget (R600 Billion was it?).
Hey, at least they have stuck with it and continue to try - credit where credit is due!
1) That corruption and theft is OK if you are a connected freedom fighter and have been denied social equity because at least you have history to blame for it?
2) That the ONLY ones who fought for freedom in SA are those holding senior positions within the anc, hence their justification for a prime position at the trough?
3) That all evil and wrongdoing, no matter how contrived and recent, is the direct cause of the actions of the white race?
4) That those young black professionals who are now successful, either in politics or commerce, because of their OWN hard work and dedication are not allowed to speak out against the destruction of their futures - as it is an insult to the very perpetrators of such selfish destruction?
5) All of the above?
You say a lot but I'm still just as confused, must be an anc thing?
*********************************************************************************************************************
I am saying that corruption is bad, very bad. As I said before, I deal with matters related to corruption everyday since my days as an investigator for the state and now as an independent consultant. In my 15 years of service, I have come to dig deeper to understand why corruption happens the way it does.
In most cases it is deeply rooted in greed. But there are other reasons as to why our politicians are found too close to the cookie jar. Since I have been a member of the ANC for 30 years, I have studied the trends and also researched on why many liberation movements, whose morals and values drove their struggle are found wanting on matters related to clean governance.
If you listened to Graca Machel a few days ago, she mentioned some of the things I have always argued about. She indicated that the corruption problem has gripped many liberation movements around the world and also in South Africa, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Namibia and Angola. Those who gave themselves time to look at root cause of the problem came to understand the underlying reasons.
People who were imprisoned or exiled, people who were denied a normal life from birth, denied an equal education, equal opportunities in sport and could not gain any meaningful employment are bound to be tempted when put in a position of power. Many of these freedom fighters in the different countries I have mentioned, they only started working through a deployment after liberation, some as old as 50 and above.
My main argument is that those who were imprisoned (wrongly), and exiled, as part of reconciliation and promotion of good gorvenance, were supposed to have been put in a position that would have ensured that when they occupy certain offices, they do not see the office as the only way they could own a house, car etc.
That is why the report about Zuma indicates that "financial institutions had to bend backwards in order to approve a bond or loan for him". Not only is his credit record an issue when it comes to being granted a bond, but his age will also come into play, a 59 year old applying for a bond would have to repay almost 4 times to what would be required from a 24 year old.
Remember, at 59 you are just a year away from normal retirement, at which time you must have finished paying off your bond. Now if a bank has to give a bond to such an old person, a security guarntee is required, hence Zuma had to rely on a friend like businessman Vivian Reddy to stand in as surety.
My argument is by no means geared at promoting corruption, but for all of us to look broadly at at factors that might have led the current state of affairs. That is why I am arguing that maybe we should have leveled the playing field so that financially, Zuma and Zille were not so far apart.
But the past that denied Zuma a normal life at the same time favouring Zille, affording her a life of privillege as a white person cannot be undone in a decade, we need to pull together. Are you all not surprised that no matter how we cry, things continue to go wrong?
Maybe as a country, we were too moved bu Tutu's tears at the TRC we just hugged and kissed, wrongly believing that all would "well" but we forgot to address the real problems, now we are stuck with the fruits of the seeds planted almost 20 years ago.
Much as you think and probably believe that young succesful black professionals got where they are today though their OWN hard work, I also believe it was made possible by the struggles waged by Zuma and many others who fought for equality, which was denied to them as young black children in the 30s, 40s, 50s all the way until the early 90s when apartheid was eradicated from our statute books.
I am sorry for confusing you, never was it my intention to do so.
The story in the Mail & Guardian is not particularly original. They just recycled an old story. For a while Madiba was concerned that Zuma's financial woes would interfere with his political duties as an ANC office-bearer. As a result he gave Msholozi some money but it does not seem like that was the end of JZ's financial woes because it does seem continued on a spending spree. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
ProgressiveAfricanDemocrat - Builder Eric Malengret told the Shaik trial that Shaik had exclaimed: "Does he [Zuma] think money grows on trees?" Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
SOLUTIONS
JohnStone
You must really stop with your lies and go and see who the real liberators was, please go and google the referendum.
**********************************************************************************************************************
I do not need to read about my liberators, I know them, hence I write about them. Why do a google search when I know who Steve Biko, JZ, Chris Hani, Mandela, Sisulu, Mbeki, Tiro, Sobukwe are and were?
Do you want me to read things written by anti-revolutionery morons? I refuse because I know Ruth First, Lilian Ngoyi, OR Tambo, Joe Slovo Bram Fischer and Oom Beyers Naude. These are the people who fought for my and your freedom.
I also know King Makhado, King Shaka, King Dingane, King Hintsa, King Sekhukhune and many more who waged relentless struggles against a tyrannical, racist, murderous and oppressive regime.
I know about slavery, colonialism and exploitation, what do you know beside cow dung?
-------------------------------------------------------
Your comment once again is showing how thick and s.tupid you are, go and read about the referendum, you will learn a lot. Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
16-12-1838
@JohnStone
My sincere thanks for taking the time to rationally explain your point of view I genuinely appreciate it, likewise for your 30 years of devotion towards research on corruption.
Admittedly you will be far more qualified than myself to discuss its causes, effects and solutions but I disagree that we must just accept it as a natural phenomen, caused ultimately by greed and perhaps the denial of basic civil liberties. Even if it is part of the normal course of events that occur following the cataclysmic occurrences of something as life changing as emancipation from oppression, shrugging our shoulders and saying "Oh Well" just isn't good enough!
With the legal, political, public and economic infrastructure that the anc inherited and our once steadfast and fair constitution, which Mandela so proudly promulgated, the people of South Africa should have been protected from this cancerous affliction affecting those too close to the cookie jar. Unfortunately because of the deep scars that racial oppression caused, the euphoria brought on by the dawning of a new more inclusive chapter in our history and a tidal wave of national fervour sweeping the 'new' nation - ordinary S.Africans took their eye off the ball and lost focus while those we voted in with trust and hope, slowly and subversively, went about enriching themselves.
There is no excuse for that!
The results of this too, are on par with the evils of the previous crooked regime...in fact, generally speaking there is no difference whatsoever. Besides skin colour and origin, which our constitution determines insignificant anyway! What we had pre-94 was a socio-economic minority group (who just happened to be white) statutorily oppressing the majority, what we have today is another socio-economic minority group (majority who are black) economically (corruption/cadreism) and intellectually (lack of education) oppressing the majority.
So then after 46 years of anc rule, can we expect much of the same that happened after 46 years of NP rule? Will the children of our children still be looking at our history and leaders with scorn? Only now with far less working infrastructure, opportunities and hope - all eradicated by this perpetual cycle of oppression and economic exclusion, unbreakable because we were too slack and useless to do anything about it?
I for one my friend, will not sit back and accept that and say "Oh Well, it is a natural phenomenon and should be tolerated." Some of us have already made that mistake once in this country, only realising the truth when it was far too late and I will certainly do my very best to not let that happen again! Freedom fighter or not - all the people of this country deserve better! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
JohnStone
@16-12-1838
I never said that corruption is 'a natural phenomenon". And I never said I spent 30 yrs researching corruption. I have been an investigator for 15 yrs in South Africa, that led me to research.
Since you have resorted to lies to support your arguments, our interaction shall cease right here and now, LYING SCUM!!! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
16-12-1838
@JohnStone
Whoa there, easy now! This is merely a communication of my viewpoint...I'm allowed to have one still aren't I?
In my defence (direct quotations)...
You - "Since I have been a member of the ANC for 30 years, I have studied the trends and also researched on why many liberation movements, whose morals and values drove their struggle are found wanting on matters related to clean governance."
Me.....Since you have been a member of the anc, you have researched morals and values and studied associated trends pertaining to them. How long have you been a member?
You - "People who were imprisoned or exiled, people who were denied a normal life from birth, denied an equal education, equal opportunities in sport and could not gain any meaningful employment are bound to be tempted when put in a position of power."
Me....As far as my understanding goes, GREED is a natural phenomenon that occurs in humans. Perhaps not philosophical and maybe not physiological, but certainly psychological. Corruption is just a by-product of greed!
I hear what you are saying regarding corruption, never doubting your stand against it and respect your many years involved in understanding it; so I am sorry that you have twisted my criticism and disagreement into a perceived personal attack. However, let me clearly state that unlike those despicable people who continue to rob this country of a decent future, I do not have to resort to lying and as a result my argument is always well supported by the actions and inactions of those in power! Report Abuse
Dec 7, 2012
Mhlonitjhwa
Big up to JohnSta for lucturing these DA and anti ANC idiots Report Abuse
Dec 8, 2012
PolyTix
And there JohnStone, you fly your true colours.............just as we got to know the anc for what their true colours'' really are!
Puppets without frontiers
Clowns without borders
Pathetic.
Good reasoning "Dingaan", very good reasoning. Are you still involved with the "meerkat" project? Report Abuse
Dec 8, 2012
STRAIGHTTALK3
FIRSTLY I WAS NOT SURE ABOUT ALL THIS CORRUPTION DRUMMA ABOUT OUR PRESIDENT, BUT AFTER READING RELATED STORIES ESPECIALLY THE CURRENT ONE, I AM CONCLUDING THAT JZ IS INNOCENT. OTHERWISE KEEP IT UP JZ, IN AFRICA YOU ARE THE FISRT PERSON TO INITIATE THE BUILDING OF A NEW TOWN IN A NEW PLACE. WITH THAT I SAY JZ KEEP UP WITH THE GOOD WORK. Report Abuse
Dec 8, 2012
!#Sinudeity#!
STRAIGHTTALK3 - Are you ignorant?
So you read all the stories, and you conclude that JZ is innocent? Next thing you will tell us that you have been reading all the stories about wouter basson (doctor death), and hence conclude that this man is innocent.
Please man, just because you suuck on JZ's d1ck, and like the taste, dont try and convince the rest of us that its nice. Report Abuse
Dec 9, 2012
Mandukulo
People, are you are aware that Italy is a mature Democracy, never been oppressed. People there are educated and well informed, yet they continue to vote for Silvio Berlusconi, the most corrupt, arrogant and womanizing thug. South Africa is a young democracy. People are not well educated and informed like Italy. We have to prepare ourselvs for 100 years of desert search, before we can get rid of people like Zuma. Report Abuse
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Comments
!#Sinudeity#!
What was also revealed in the report, is how JZ drew money that was deposited into his schooling charity fund, for personal use.Report Abuse
Flemza
There is nothing new here , even Mandela, helped me as well , hence I`m a multi-millionaire lawyer, if it wasn`t for Mandela, I still would be oppressed and as poor as ever, so Mandela did not help Zuma only, he helped most of us black diamondsReport Abuse
kabelo110
Copy and Paste Journalism. Tzek sowetan.Zuma is a failure, he cant seem to do anything right.
Report Abuse
lindsay
so if it wasn't for these people this dude would have been insolvent a long time ago. and why did they borrow or give him money for?Report Abuse
!#Sinudeity#!
"Builder Eric Malengret told the Shaik trial that Shaik had exclaimed: "Does he [Zuma] think money grows on trees?""Report Abuse
Tasto_
Luke18:18 -20, not Saint\Angel has ever walk this Earth !!PS - I start to rethink&believe the Prophecy of Christ's return by honounary pastor JZ !!
Report Abuse
Dandan
Is this a media trial or what, is the media reviewing Zumas trial, it is very disturbing that Mail&Guardian was banned by PW Botha for these shananigans , the owner banned again by Mbeki , this is a threat to democraccy , incite of civil w.ar , he has no care since Zim has already been destroyedReport Abuse
Zimzalabam1
Yet ur late again Sowetan.This was published by the Mail&Guardian.....ALwys behind damn!tReport Abuse
Dr.Head
Both Mandela and Zuma served parallel sentences to free our people from aparteid slavery. They both struggled for our freedom. Mandela undertands the sacrifices and challenges Zuma went through and he will support him.Report Abuse
Tasto_
@DandanIs this a media trial or what, is the media reviewing Zumas trial, it is very disturbing that Mail&Guardian was banned by PW Botha for these shananigans , the owner banned again by Mbeki , this is a threat to democraccy , incite of civil w.ar , he has no care since Zim has already been destroyed
Funny in the late 1980s @evry compass a copy of M&G under your armpit was considered a status of Political pedigree neh? Most progressive residence always a copy in their common rooms funny how this quickly change!!
Different strokes for different folkes ?
Report Abuse
MsKinkyakaKamaSutra
The report says large commercial banks bent over backwards to accommodate Zuma because of his political position, writing off bad debt against his name.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fukc........... it is not only teh judiciary even banks
Report Abuse
lindsay
@Dr Headand i bet only Zuma and Mandela were jailed other were just hosted
Report Abuse
queenies
so what is wrong with borrowing someone money?Report Abuse
MsKinkyakaKamaSutra
@!#Sinudeity#!What was also revealed in the report, is how JZ drew money that was deposited into his schooling charity fund, for personal use.
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It was about R2mil or more that he got from Mandela under the guise of the JZ Foundation
Report Abuse
Moffdat
iyhooo watch the dogs on sowetan have a feast with this one right here!Come on doggies... fetch!
Report Abuse
BlackSeed
I was hoping to see comments that suggest a corrupt relationship between Madiba and Zuma but I guess I’ll wait my whole life for such.Did Madiba help JZ out of gratitude?
We are even forced to remember him by placing his image on the Notes
I still wonder who rules the land, the skies and the seas
Report Abuse
MsKinkyakaKamaSutra
@FlemzaThere is nothing new here , even Mandela, helped me as well , hence I`m a multi-millionaire lawyer, if it wasn`t for Mandela, I still would be oppressed and as poor as ever, so Mandela did not help Zuma only, he helped most of us black diamonds
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Wish he could have helped yuo to stop smoking your shoes and read stories with understanding
Multi-milliionare Lawyer........... I bet you got those million by defrauding RAF
Report Abuse
Tasto_
Ppl the article say Mandela repriminded Zuma abt his lifestyle&finances and under strict & confidentialilty was he prepared to help him with once off debt settlement.Only adter his axin "isimo sishubile" did he approved the amount !! Hope it was his personal account not Chikldren's Fund !!Report Abuse
Moffdat
MsKinkyakaKamaSutra@Flemza
There is nothing new here , even Mandela, helped me as well , hence I`m a multi-millionaire lawyer, if it wasn`t for Mandela, I still would be oppressed and as poor as ever, so Mandela did not help Zuma only, he helped most of us black diamonds
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Wish he could have helped yuo to stop smoking your shoes and read stories with understanding
Multi-milliionare Lawyer........... I bet you got those million by defrauding RAF
====================================================
LOL play nice!
Report Abuse
Dandan
@Tasto_you must be suffering frm selection amnesia , why Mbeki banned the owner at sabc
Report Abuse
Tasto_
@Dandan - owner of what do you mean owner of SABC? Damn things are happening very fast in SA didn't know it has bee privatised not sure abt ANC shares in it though!!So they gang against Mbeki, dropping of the charges was Poltical not Legal jesses !!
Report Abuse
SOLUTIONS
I don't know if we as South Africans should laugh, cry, or be darn angry that these things are happening in our country.Just more proof to show that the anc and its people are corrupt to the core.
I wonder if SARS new about these?
Report Abuse
moloi_o_montsho_black_witch
Chicken coming home to roast.Just saw an article that people of Nkandla prefer IFP than Zuma. How should we trust him while his neighbours dont trust and believe in him. IFP just won a ward in Nkandla where Zuma lives ijooooooooo
http://www.timeslive.co.za/politics/2012/12/06/ifp-snatches-nkandla-from-anc-in-by-election
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Dandan
@Tasto_its clear Im arguing with with silly,ignorant ,stupid ,fool, you dont know m&g owner was banned at sabc , you are very young boy ,go sleep
Report Abuse
MommaC
He was bought and paid for. Did he learn his lesson? Not a donner. Now he is selling himself to the Gupta clanReport Abuse
Tasto_
@Dandan - plse for my beneffit and otha bloggers furnish proof to refresh my memory instead of throwing insults!! Go to yr Mangaung farce !!Report Abuse
asaowe
moloi_o_montsho_black_witchChicken coming home to roast.
Just saw an article that people of Nkandla prefer IFP than Zuma. How should we trust him while his neighbours dont trust and believe in him. IFP just won a ward in Nkandla where Zuma lives ijooooooooo
http://www.timeslive.co.za/politics/2012/12/06/ifp-snatches-nkandla-from-anc-in-by-election
dnt be fooled by these, it has alwys been neck2neck btwen 2 parties, nxt by-election wll be anc, for all these years eva since by-elections were held it been 2hourse race so chilex.
Report Abuse
!#Sinudeity#!
Dandan - If SABC banned Trevor Ncube, then he is a hero.SABC is now just a bunch of @ssl1ckers, controlled by the ruling party, who pushes their own agendas to ensure that only an ANC sanitized news and messages are broadcasted to the masses.
Report Abuse
McKena
I could just imagine , TATA giving Zuma the Money and saying .Hhhheeee Kwedini Zuma!!!!! Uyabona lemali endikunika yona uze uyisebenzise kakuhle.
Kwedini ndithi hlukana nabafazi abaninsi, Nalentwana u Thabo iidikwe nguwe ngoba utya lemali yalezizibhanxa zalapha eSouth Africa ngo no Kroyi. Asitye le mali bangaboni. Vula i Trust Fund sitye lemali kakuhle sibhanxa ndini !!!!!!!
Report Abuse
Shredder
@ Tasto - Luke 18:18-20And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
Luke 18:21-23 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
Report Abuse
!#Sinudeity#!
asaowe - "dnt be fooled by these, it has alwys been neck2neck btwen 2 parties, nxt by-election wll be anc, for all these years eva since by-elections were held it been 2hourse race so chilex."Means that JZ's hometown doesnt have confidence in him. And here the ZUMA FANBOYS are perpetuating the belief that JZ is the messiah :P
Shame, the messiah's hometown rejected him.
Report Abuse
MGEEZ
@Dr.HeadBoth Mandela and Zuma served parallel sentences to free our people from aparteid slavery. They both struggled for our freedom. Mandela undertands the sacrifices and challenges Zuma went through and he will support him.
===============================================================================
So now you have appointed yourself to be Mandela's spoke person????Interesting!!!
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Tasto_
@Dandan - you have been played & beaten in your own game you were so focused to Mangaung & 2nd term with benefits if this is not check-mate brace yourselves and reserve your energy from throwing insults!!Report Abuse
asaowe
!#Sinudeity#!asaowe - "dnt be fooled by these, it has alwys been neck2neck btwen 2 parties, nxt by-election wll be anc, for all these years eva since by-elections were held it been 2hourse race so chilex."
Means that JZ's hometown doesnt have confidence in him. And here the ZUMA FANBOYS are perpetuating the belief that JZ is the messiah :P
Shame, the messiah's hometown rejected him.
will talk after nxt by-election
Report Abuse
Zabaragast
Thabo Mbeki had no chance against this guy. I'm not sure why the old man would back such a clearly compromised individual to be SA prez.Report Abuse
imfene
It is easy to criticize. But I think a better approach is to present a well thought out path to the future which would benefit our children. Whoever can do this will succeed. None of the parties are doing this, they are only capable of squabbling like children. This vacuum is dangerous, as it allows for the Idi Amin, Hitler, Mugabes of the world. It is my hope that Mr. Ramaphosa /Mr. Manual and the National Planning Commission move urgently with confidence (Zuma being just a figurehead.)Report Abuse
Tasto_
@ZabaragastThabo Mbeki had no chance against this guy. I'm not sure why the old man would back such a clearly compromised individual to be SA prez.
Maybe pity or error of judgement hoping he was gonna change after the once-off favour !!
Report Abuse
Shredder
@Moffdat - iyhooo watch the dogs on sowetan have a feast with this one right here!=======================================================================
It's not the first time I an ANC guy call other people dogs. The first one was Angie Motshekga, live on TV.
Report Abuse
JFK
old story , the M & G has run out of stories,trying to spread propaganda against him as the elective conference is so close , we could not be fooled by the pro D A media , the freedom of press , there are enjoying today was fought by the same Zuma and others,you can not fool the masses :A N C forever : even if Zuma is no more the President ,I will tell my wife , my children and relatives to vote for the ANC forever: he might be grade 2 , but he could not get the education he desired due to theconditions he grew under,but he fought for the right of our childre to get the quality education like their whites counterparts which they were denied:but the very same beneficiaries of his secrifices precisely
the balcks who are previlledged because they were allowed to have access to former whites schools are calling him uneducated and the worse President ever but the white community still respect P W Botha and H F Vervoert despite their descriminative policies : wake up black south african before it is too late :
I respect you Zuma , Mandela , Sisulu , Mbheki , Sobukwe , Biko , Luthuli , Thambo and Others :
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imfene
Dr.HeadA gift of money is one thing. Stealing from tax paying citizens is unacceptable.
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MGEEZ
@queeniesso what is wrong with borrowing someone money?
============================================================================
Nothing!!!! but where in the story does it say that Mandela borrowed Zuma the money?????
Report Abuse
Tasto_
@Shredder@ Tasto - Luke 18:18-19 - no one is good even Jesus was not good except G-d above, then who is Madiba ?
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Blocked
"..Bands a make her dance, bands a make her danceAll these cheaters popping pussies, i'm just popping bands ..."
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SOLUTIONS
JFK---
Your children is the exact reason why you should stop voting anc, look at what is happening with the country, imagine it in 7 years if the DA does not take over.
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MGEEZ
@BlackSeedI was hoping to see comments that suggest a corrupt relationship between Madiba and Zuma but I guess I’ll wait my whole life for such.
Did Madiba help JZ out of gratitude?
We are even forced to remember him by placing his image on the Notes
I still wonder who rules the land, the skies and the seas
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Do you know something that we don't? Please spill the bins; it sounds interesting what ever it is that you want to share with us!!! Go ahead.
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Blocked
"..Bands a make her dance, bands a make her danceAll these chicks clapping, but they aint using hands ..."
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oldlady12
Mandela GAVE JZ money. No story there, because Mandela had then already been prez, so I don't think he was trying to gain anything from JZ. Now, the others are a totally different story.Report Abuse
GODESS
FlemzaThere is nothing new here , even Mandela, helped me as well , hence I`m a multi-millionaire lawyer, if it wasn`t for Mandela, I still would be oppressed and as poor as ever, so Mandela did not help Zuma only, he helped most of us black diamonds
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Tjo Ntate wa batho, you are really full yourself, no offence mara i have been checking your comments and every time, you either brag about your 5 sons and the other one is a mine engineer, then that you are a lawyer, next thing you are a black diamond....Aikhona fokotsa papa, i dont rememeber any of the bloggers here revealing what their proffession is. Ai! wangena maan. please act your proffession, etla le menagano ya lawyer as you say you are. nx!
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moloi_o_montsho_black_witch
@asaoweHee wena lerete. A o tsebe sekgowa naaa?
Fool ke wena lego se tsebe sekgowa. The IFP won the election am not talking about the neck-to-neck. Am talking about what happens in the last 72 hours.
Dont tell me anout 2014 mosono
O tswaa kae jou mmago smono
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MommaC
JFKThis isn't 'DA propaganda' unless the Auditor General is now employed by the DA.
This isn't even old news unless you knew about the writeoffs from the banks, the millions from Reddy and the million from Madiba
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Fanle
Does M & G ever right about the opressors flaws and flops? White owned paper trying to push their Agenda. We dont care if Mandela gave money to Zuma,Tambo or Mbeki. It really doesnt change our lives.Report Abuse
Fanle
*writeReport Abuse
Tasto_
@oldlady12 - you know sometimes we are encouraged to invest it life cover & Hollard deathcover(if u r zebra) to look afta our loved ones when we depart this world, I do insunuate anything maar this "kusemhlabeni apa" !!Report Abuse
Dr.Head
MommaCJFK
This isn't 'DA propaganda' unless the Auditor General is now employed by the DA.
This isn't even old news unless you knew about the writeoffs from the banks, the millions from Reddy and the million from Madiba
.........................
This is DA, stop denying it. DA is trying its best to get rid of Zuma. They see he is the strongest person in the ANC top leadership. They are trying everything: Tapes, vote of no confidence, Nkandla trips, stupid ratings by Lindiwe, etc. DA must stop this nonsense. It is embarrassing itself.
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Dandan
@Tasto_@Dandan - you have been played & beaten in your own game you were so focused to Mangaung & 2nd term with benefits if this is not check-mate brace yourselves and reserve your energy from throwing insults!!
=============================================
this is an old story , its a repeat , how old are you let me start there, geese , we know this story was there on sunday times in 2007
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Disasterkid
There is someone who trying to brain demage us, Vote ANC!!! we dont care about who gave who money, becuase nawe ucorrupted in your own way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Report Abuse
SOLUTIONS
FanleDoes M & G ever right about the opressors flaws and flops?.
-------------------------------------------
What stories would you want to hear?
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oldlady12
Tasto...HUH???????Report Abuse
MommaC
Dr.HeadAt least she will never out do you on that either.
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MGEEZ
@Tasto_@Shredder
@ Tasto - Luke 18:18-19 - no one is good even Jesus was not good except G-d above, then who is Madiba ?
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Jesus never said he was not good; he simply asked the young men: why does he call him (Jesus) good; because no one is good except God. It appears to me that you either deliberately are misrepresenting scripture or do not know scripture very well!!! My suggestion therefore is that, let not your loyalty for Madiba blind you to elevating him to bein an equivalent of Jesus the Christ
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SOLUTIONS
DisasterkidThere is someone who trying to brain demage us, Vote ANC!!! we dont care about who gave who money, becuase nawe ucorrupted in your own way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Huh, sorry what did you try to write here?
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!#Sinudeity#!
Fanle - "Does M & G ever right about the opressors flaws and flops?"Dude... Dont be ignorant. M&G was the voice of the nation during apartheid. Even when the apartheid government had its secrecy laws in place, M&G was exposing the apartheid government.
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JFK
Solutions : I thought your name would suggest a solution rather than an oportunistic comments about the ANC , you see the poor standard of edication could not be placed over the sholders of the ANC there are quite a nubmer of factors contributing to such situation any way , I am not in the field of education by profession : the D A would like to keep the status quo : leave the black kids poor and empower the white kids but the ANC is trying to balance the two :close the gab between the blacks &
whites: viva ANC viva my beloved Umbutho we Sizwe our libarators from H V Vervoert and P V Botha
and others before them :
Report Abuse
MommaC
FanleDoes M & G ever right about the opressors flaws and flops? White owned paper trying to push their Agenda
Yes they do and no they aren't
Report Abuse
!#Sinudeity#!
Fanle - "White owned paper trying to push their Agenda."M&G is owned by a black dude. Trevor Ncube.
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!#Sinudeity#!
Eish, the buuutt-hurt ANC fanboys are SCRAMBLING today :PReport Abuse
Tasto_
@MGEEZ@Tasto_
@Shredder
@ Tasto - Luke 18:18-19 - no one is good even Jesus was not good except G-d above, then who is Madiba ?
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Jesus never said he was not good; he simply asked the young men: why does he call him (Jesus) good; because no one is good except God.
"no one is good except God" ??
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vampire1
Why attacking zuma like these, I am not a fan of zuma, but the way the president is being attacked i think is too much, he deserve a break, all in all he is a human being who make mistake just like you and me. we must give a man a break for the sake of our country, we cant keep on attacking a president like these.Report Abuse
skwamasamabele
Like I've been writing on this blog all along, from Mandela to Zuma, there has never been visible transformation in our lives from apartheid to 2012. I call on all normal ANC supporters to demand for a change in the set-up of the NEC at Mangaung, which currently comprises of broerskaps (Exiles). Otherwise we are heading for Zim-incarnate, and a prospect of civil strife is very realReport Abuse
SOLUTIONS
JFKSolutions : I thought your name would suggest a solution rather than an oportunistic comments about the ANC , you see the poor standard of edication could not be placed over the sholders of the ANC there are quite a nubmer of factors contributing to such situation any way , I am not in the field of education by profession : the D A would like to keep the status quo : leave the black kids poor and empower the white kids but the ANC is trying to balance the two :close the gab between the blacks &
whites: viva ANC viva my beloved Umbutho we Sizwe our libarators from H V Vervoert and P V Botha
and others before them :
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Lets start with the level of education or "edication" that you are talking about, who is H V Vervoert and P V Botha.
So the anc is trying to close the gap by not being able to supply books in 2 provinces while the WC has the best pass rates and best model schools. Your anc is keeping the voters like yourself uneducated or should it be unedicated like you would say. You see the uneducated are more gullible and can not make up their minds to know that corruption is wrong.
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MommaC
JFK..... and the ANC is doing a brilliant job. The kids even got their books within the year. May have been 10 months late but they got them. They also have classrooms now. They may be falling apart, have no water, toilets, electricity or roofs (and sometimes no walls) but they are classrooms
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lindsay
@JFKSolutions : I thought your name would suggest a solution rather than an oportunistic comments about the ANC , you see the poor standard of edication could not be placed over the sholders of the ANC there are quite a nubmer of factors contributing to such situation any way , I am not in the field of education by profession : the D A would like to keep the status quo : leave the black kids poor and empower the white kids but the ANC is trying to balance the two :close the gab between the blacks &
whites: viva ANC viva my beloved Umbutho we Sizwe our libarators from H V Vervoert and P V Botha
and others before them :
......................................
seriously one can see why you are not in the education field. and you mean the poor standard of education given to our children is going to close the gap? give me whatever you are smoking it works
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!#Sinudeity#!
vampire1 - F*** off! JZ deserves to step down! He deserves F***ALL BREAKS!Report Abuse
GhettoCheeck
They are all corrupt.Report Abuse
Tasto_
@Dandan - my comlade u so quiet or u concede this could be possiblely an inside job to avail classified material U have been PLAYED neh!!Mangaung is gonna be dirty&deadly literaly!!
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imfene
JFK"the D A would like to keep the status quo : leave the black kids poor and empower the white kids"
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I very much doubt this. Pure propaganda to mislead un educated people.
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Tasto_
Now question we should be pondering instead of tearing @each other , are the SPY TAPES existing?Report Abuse
MsKinkyakaKamaSutra
JFKSolutions : ................................
ANC is trying to balance the two :close the gab between the blacks & whites: viva ANC viva my beloved Umbutho we Sizwe our libarators from H V Vervoert and P V Botha
******************************************************************************
Balance the gap........... or you mean widen the gap???? Non delivery of school text books (does not balance the gap), underresourced schools (does not balance the gap), no payment of terachers (does not balance the gap), the list is endless
The ANC is disempowering kids ........................
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MsKinkyakaKamaSutra
non-payment of teachersReport Abuse
!#Sinudeity#!
imfene - Yeah, 'wit gevaar'... the only fear the ANC can hope to have people cling onto for support.Report Abuse
mzobhozo
Grade 4 journalist like Zuma Copy and Paste City Press Article as it rubbish newspaper, actaully this newspaper need to change the name and coraborate with Daily Sun NXA!Report Abuse
MommaC
mzobhozoAre you a product of Angie's education system?
Try READING
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Tasto_
mzobhozo, danddan & dj wherever u are, plse go easy on Webteam&Ediotor.M&G ran the story and we downdloed the document from their site for our weekend read. U barking the wrong tree boys maar ngiya verstaan mabekudlalile\u have been played outwitted neh ?Report Abuse
Dandan
Tasto_@Dandan - my comlade u so quiet or u concede this could be possiblely an inside job to avail classified material U have been PLAYED neh!!
Mangaung is gonna be dirty&deadly literaly!!
==========================================
this thing is old , sad that only you who is not aware of it, mangaung has traumatised you , in such an extent you cant remember . we are nt talking mangaung anymore , all we are talking is who will replace Tokyo,Mashatile,cassel, Thandi modise, Mayor of Jhb &Pta , all must go and form their party if nt happy with Zuma
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Tasto_
@DandanTasto_
@Dandan - my comlade u so quiet or u concede this could be possiblely an inside job to avail classified material U have been PLAYED neh!!
Mangaung is gonna be dirty&deadly literaly!!
==========================================
this thing is old , sad that only you who is not aware of it, mangaung has traumatised you , in such an extent you cant remember . we are nt talking mangaung anymore , all we are talking is who will replace Tokyo,Mashatile,cassel, Thandi modise, Mayor of Jhb &Pta , all must go and form their party if nt happy with Zuma
This thing is old, what do you mean "dirty tricks in politics" ja bambelela siyajika wena!!
Report Abuse
skwamasamabele
vampire1- Of course they would attack JZ, if there was a state of emergency they would have all been hunted down and murdered. At least JZ and his govt can allow that level of tolerance, which we never saw from the NATS. Saying that though, you have to admit JZ is doing himself and the ANC no favours at all. I (and my family) fought in the Struggle and we are yet to see (economic) freedom. I would support anyone who advocates for the removal of the current NEC at Mangaung, and you should do the same. I would support the ANC for lifeReport Abuse
Garanteni
A poorly written article that has resulted in the even more poorer response in defence of Zuma from Dandan and JFK, they are not completely uneducatable they just whole heartedly love the anc and Zuma specifically and that end up making them some sort of parrots of idea, they sounds like they are from UMrhabulo meeting where they have been taught how to sound intelligent in their arguments, I am sick and tired of anc claiming to have solely delivered freedom to a black person that was oppresssed in SA and everybody else was a spectetor in the struggle. I personally do not hate Zuma I just feel he has more flaws to be occucpying the position he is currently occupying, but anc candidate should decide I can still live with him,@ Tasto I am enjoying your argument, keep them coming.
Report Abuse
JFK
to : mskinkyakakamasutra , imfene , lindsay , momac & solution:
come on guys , you expose your ignorance about public administration and management , delivering of books is an administrative matter or a supply chain management matter , you think the president must call all schools to find out that if all principals had placed their oders for the following year, what
the head of the school , the circurt manager , the district manager , the head of department of education in the province would do : I think these are the people who are involved in the day to day running of the department , to blame the head of state , your are so desparate to find the mistake from the head of state : D A will never get my vote and of all people around me:
Report Abuse
kukuyalethosa1
What's wrong with Zuma Kganthi? Why is he always having financial problems? He keeps making so many babes and marrying wives whom he can't afford.Report Abuse
!#Sinudeity#!
"The initial upgrade of President Jacob Zuma's Nkandla homestead was funded by donations and arms deal-related payments when it was clear that Zuma didn't have the funds to pay for it, a confidential forensic audit report has revealed."Report Abuse
MommaC
JFKso if your employees don't do their jobs then it isn't your problem?
Report Abuse
mzobhozo
Momma CAre you a product of Angie's education system?
Try READING
these wooligan jornalist the think we 'r stupid by publishing the old story here and even worse copied from other newspaper rubbish man! we all know that politician are all corrupt including Nelson Mandela and Thabo Mbeki by killing his own son please man come on
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!#Sinudeity#!
This audit exposes ZUMA and his armsdeal bribes. It exposes the fact that a political solution was reached behind closed doors and secret deals made to drop his corruption charges.I spit on zuma, the piece of $h17.
Report Abuse
Garanteni
To all anc supporters how did this article became a DA issue, do you guys have some proof to accuse DA of being behind this, or its just one of those comradely language?Report Abuse
MommaC
mzobhozothey aren't wrong.
This was a Mail and Guardian scoop
Report Abuse
Winilen
This Story is long over due. I knew about it & it was crushed when it first came out because they did not want to involve Mandela to any scandals about the arms deal.Report Abuse
Mgaraji
GaranteniA poorly written article that has resulted in the even more poorer response in defence of Zuma from Dandan and JFK, they are not completely uneducatable they just whole heartedly love the anc and Zuma specifically and that end up making them some sort of parrots of idea, they sounds like they are from UMrhabulo meeting where they have been taught how to sound intelligent in their arguments, I am sick and tired of anc claiming to have solely delivered freedom to a black person that was oppresssed in SA and everybody else was a spectetor in the struggle. I personally do not hate Zuma I just feel he has more flaws to be occucpying the position he is currently occupying, but anc candidate should decide I can still live with him,
_________________________
Good command of English language can make fool look smart. Smart look foolish.
Report Abuse
JFK
peace guys : I have won the debate : ANC forever
Report Abuse
Popeye
We live Black huh!! Blacks are confused…that’s why we have Mandela notes….a freedom fighter…son help son…one lie spoils a thousand truths. They call themselves leaders…I call them betrayals…tseeeek.Report Abuse
Stallion101
Hai, this is media way of making ZUMA Train famous again! MXM I wish this bastard get removed at Magaung or me and Madam Zille will remove him!Report Abuse
!#Sinudeity#!
JFK - You won nothing. Yelling while closing your ears and your eyes isnt winning.Loser.
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MommaC
JFKLOL
Report Abuse
SOLUTIONS
JFKto : mskinkyakakamasutra , imfene , lindsay , momac & solution:
come on guys , you expose your ignorance about public administration and management , delivering of books is an administrative matter or a supply chain management matter , you think the president must call all schools to find out that if all principals had placed their oders for the following year, what
the head of the school , the circurt manager , the district manager , the head of department of education in the province would do : I think these are the people who are involved in the day to day running of the department , to blame the head of state , your are so desparate to find the mistake from the head of state : D A will never get my vote and of all people around me:
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You see that is where you are wrong, the head of state must make sure the people do their jobs and if they fail they must get the boot, not a golden handshake and be moved to another department.
Don't vote DA, it is fine, DA don't like people who cant think for themselves, DA is a open minded party who does not want people to vote for them because of their legacy but for how they serve the people of the country. Only a m.oron will vote for people who is busy burning the country.
Report Abuse
mzobhozo
Momma Cthey aren't wrong.
This was a Mail and Guardian scoop
i can c now u r also one of them, u don't come with your own article you just wait for intelligent Newspapers like Mail and Guidan to do the job for you so that you'll copie it, no researchers whatsoever in Sowetan anymore that y i said they need to change the name and be called Daily Sun
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Zabaragast
Tasto_Could be. The old man is human, and he had anything to gain from Zuma, unlike Shaik and the Durban business community.
Report Abuse
Stallion101
@mzobhozo I fully agree! Their name shuld change to Copytan or even better sex tan!Report Abuse
MommaC
mzobhozoNow why would a baker be writing articles about Zuma's loans?
Report Abuse
motlantheforpresident
Is Mandela a registered money lender? Maybe he should borrow us money before his demiseReport Abuse
16-12-1838
The brainwashed anc sheep are drowning on here today :) Your arguments are even more flawed and nonsensical than usual! In fact, the more you zombies try and defend the actions of your criminal masters the more ridiculous and unintelligible you ALL appear to be - exposing the true level of your intellect!You are ALL fast becoming an embarrassment, not only to yourselves but to all decent, honest South Africans! The anc has become a sorry excuse for a political party, they are nothing but incompetent and corrupt...if you can't see that by now then you deserve to go down in flames with them!
Times are changing and people have had enough, FU.CK the anc!!!!!!
Report Abuse
SharpSharp
Can JZ lead the ANC and leave SA alone pleasssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeReport Abuse
lindsay
to : mskinkyakakamasutra , imfene , lindsay , momac & solution:come on guys , you expose your ignorance about public administration and management , delivering of books is an administrative matter or a supply chain management matter , you think the president must call all schools to find out that if all principals had placed their oders for the following year, what
the head of the school , the circurt manager , the district manager , the head of department of education in the province would do : I think these are the people who are involved in the day to day running of the department , to blame the head of state , your are so desparate to find the mistake from the head of state : D A will never get my vote and of all people around me:
................................
and we said that ? we were responding to your hogwash actually about closing of a gap of which even you know the gap is becoming wider hence Angie's Rolls Royce and toyota example, you must just go to Auntie Angie and ask her to teach you, you are a special case.if uncle Zuma is such a thrifty spender why do the Anc allow him to be near state coffers. they know he is a spender and has never considered his financial situation before and has been "helped" in the past to mantain his lifestyle and who is "helping" him now to mantain his and his wives exurbitant lifestyles?
Report Abuse
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
Thank you Mr Madiba for helping our president you're the holy man of God.You see all ANC members are so kind.
Report Abuse
Winilen
The spy tapes will never come out because it implicate lot of politicians & business people.Report Abuse
MommaC
WinilenWell Zuma always promised that he would 'not go down alone' and that he would 'spill the beans'.
Ironically, this new leak makes it vital for him to win at Mangaung.
Report Abuse
mzobhozo
Momma CNow why would a baker be writing articles about Zuma's loans?
Because of hidden Agenda Momma C
@Stallion101......i think copytan can suit them
Report Abuse
skwamasamabele
16-12-1838- Judging by your date of birth, how come you survived the Jurrasic Period?? Muppet. You offer no solution to the country's quagmire but spit vitriol about the ruling party. Did your party (NATS) faired any better from 1948?? errr....No. Most of us more intellectual that you'd ever be, but we dont write a book about it. I dont support corruption, but at least I have a SOLUTION!!! To get rid of current corrupt leadership. What solution are you offering?? go back to 1838??? At least Dingane had the right idea at the time: 'Bulalani Abathakathi!!'Report Abuse
MommaC
mzobhozoDid you have a liquid lunch or a pipe one?
Report Abuse
Garanteni
skwamasamabele16-12-1838- Judging by your date of birth, how come you survived the Jurrasic Period?? Muppet. You offer no solution to the country's quagmire but spit vitriol about the ruling party. Did your party (NATS) faired any better from 1948?? errr....No. Most of us more intellectual that you'd ever be, but we dont write a book about it. I dont support corruption, but at least I have a SOLUTION!!! To get rid of current corrupt leadership. What solution are you offering?? go back to 1838??? At least Dingane had the right idea at the time: 'Bulalani Abathakathi!!'
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skwamasamabele, I had to log in and just to kwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak at this, lol
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!#Sinudeity#!
LOL, even the FBI is investigating corruption in SA now...Report Abuse
!#Sinudeity#!
"But the system has descended into chaos since new operators, Net1 UEPS technologies took over.Net1 is jointly listed on the American Stock Exchange, the Nasdaq and on the JSE.
The US Department of Justice Criminal Division and the FBI have now teamed up to investigate possible corruption in how that company secured a R10 billion tender to issue grants here. "
Again, the ANC government taking R10 billion of South Africa's money, and dumping it into a foreign economy, when the work could have been done by Saffers.
F*** the ANC.
Report Abuse
skwamasamabele
GaranteniYou dont really expect to be debating with someone who writes beyond the grave
Report Abuse
MommaC
Wow, OBE history must be really bad!Report Abuse
SOLUTIONS
!#Sinudeity#!Again, the ANC government taking R10 billion of South Africa's money, and dumping it into a foreign economy, when the work could have been done by Saffers.
F*** the ANC.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Yet there is still the people who will support the criminals while they run the country into the ground, I wonder how much money has the anc government already moved to other countries where we could have been the beneficiaries.
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16-12-1838
@skwamasamabeleLOL....the response I was expecting, many thanks - your bitter vitriol has substantiated my argument perfectly...'a luta continua' indeed!
Report Abuse
Fernie
People, go ahead and make lot of noise about the ANC and Zuma and not voting for ANC. Some of you (!#Sinudeity#!) are saying only stupid and/or uneducated people will vote for ANC. The sad truth is right now there's no opposition for the ANC and as things stand, it's ANC all the way. By the way I will vote for MY ANC. Go ahead and say what ever you like, it is your freedom of expression. Seeing that most of you are not happy with ANC, why don't you organise yourselves and start your own political party. Come 2014...ANC will win again.....Report Abuse
SOLUTIONS
FerniePeople, go ahead and make lot of noise about the ANC and Zuma and not voting for ANC. Some of you (!#Sinudeity#!) are saying only stupid and/or uneducated people will vote for ANC. The sad truth is right now there's no opposition for the ANC and as things stand, it's ANC all the way. By the way I will vote for MY ANC. Go ahead and say what ever you like, it is your freedom of expression. Seeing that most of you are not happy with ANC, why don't you organise yourselves and start your own political party. Come 2014...ANC will win again....
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Why do you want to vote for the anc who is corrupt and keep the children of SA in the dark with bad education and no service delivery if you can vote for the DA which outshines them in everything?
Report Abuse
skwamasamabele
16-12-1838- I think we operate on different planets here. I wont stop supporting the the ANC, but I wont support corruption, therefore I WANT TO SEE LEADERSHIP CHANGE. Is that too complicated for an intellectual like you?? I am hoping Mangaung would offer the Revolt I am looking for, therefore I dont need prophets of gloom like you telling me that I support my party religiously, hell no!!Report Abuse
MommaC
Ferniehttp://www.hayibo.com/masses-say-they-want-zuma-because-they-want-zuma/
Report Abuse
!#Sinudeity#!
Fernie - "Some of you (!#Sinudeity#!) are saying only stupid and/or uneducated people will vote for ANC"I didnt say that. Not today anyways.
"The sad truth is right now there's no opposition for the ANC and as things stand"
LOL, thats only what ANC fanboys tell each other.
"why don't you organise yourselves and start your own political party. Come 2014...ANC will win again..."
Or a much simpler solution, vote anybody else.
Report Abuse
Garanteni
@ Fernie, your frustration can be felt in your comment despite pretending that things are cool as they are well knowing they are not, people must just learn to take criticism, if I dare criticise what I see is wrong, I definately will need a thick skin to take all the insults I will immediately be subjected to, you need not to bother about people like Sinudeity, they more concern about their parties while pretending to be worried about the country.Report Abuse
JohnStone
Firstly, there is no new story here. Mandela gave R 2 million, half went to Zuma and the other half went to King Goodwill Zwelithini. Mandela gave away this money because he too was given almostR20 million by "well-wishers" (companies that decided to establish a Mandela Family Trust for the benefit of Mandela's children and grandchildren).
Of late we are seeing more and more "eplossive revelations about Zuma". But a closer look will reveal that these are controlled and sustained "revelations" that are not new at all. These so-called revelations are a mischievous trick by the fourth estate to dictate to ANC members as to who they should vote for.
During ShabirShaik's trial, the state alleged that Shabir gave Zuma R 2 million as corrupt payments, Shaik revealed Mandela as the source and that there was nothing corrupt about Mandela giving to Zuma some money to help pay off some debts. Zuma's home was quoted at R 1.3 million, after receiving aR 1 million from Mandela, Zuma applied for a R 900 000 bond, that is R 600 000 more than the quoted amount for building his home.
We are going to see more and more of this recycling of old stories, Zuma is again going to be subjected to a trial by the media, a phenomenon that started in 2003 when former National Director of Public Persecutions Bulelani Ngcuka assembled senior black journalist to tell them "how corrupt Zuma was", also that he was not going to charge him but would leave him to the "court of public opinion to dry and die a political death".
Well informed ANC members are not going to fall for such cheap tricks by the media that already believes that they are "ruling this country". Even if one does not support Zuma's candidacy, I would urge ANC members not to use these media leaks as reasons for not voting Zuma into a second term, the danger of ANC members being controlled by nefarious media leaks is greater than Zuma's 2nd term. Following, swallowing and acting upon media leaks amounts to surendering the ANC to media vultures.
Zuma and the current NEC had been given a mandate by the Polokwane conference. A trial by the media undermines the rule of law, equality before the eyes of the law. Once we allow it to happen to Zuma, then it will happen to Kgalema and those that will come after them, slowly but surely it will lead to the death of the ANC and a reversal of any gains we have had since 1994.
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MommaC
skwamasamabeleAs much as I would LOVE to see a change at Mangaung, it isn't going to happen. The branches have all done their voting and it isn't for change
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cornelius
A man who continually takes money from others is not a man, he is a parasite. When he is a influential political figure, and he takes it from corrupt businessmen like Shaik, who give the money for one reason only nl preferential treatment on government contracts, etc, he is corrupt, i.e. a criminal besides being a parasite.And ANC supporters think he is fit to be president of the largest economy in Africa !!!!
It is only people who do not want law and order, honesty, and clean government, because they are benefitting from the current situation, who would want this man to continue being president.
Cry the beloved ( and once proud) country.
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!#Sinudeity#!
Garanteni - "you need not to bother about people like Sinudeity, they more concern about their parties while pretending to be worried about the country."I put my country first, unlike the ANC.
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Laqasha
I have also bankrolled uZuma, gave him loans.Report Abuse
!#Sinudeity#!
skwamasamabele - "I wont stop supporting the the ANC, but I wont support corruption"If you support the ANC, you support corruption dude.
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SOLUTIONS
skwamasamabele16-12-1838- I think we operate on different planets here. I wont stop supporting the the ANC, but I wont support corruption, therefore I WANT TO SEE LEADERSHIP CHANGE. Is that too complicated for an intellectual like you?? I am hoping Mangaung would offer the Revolt I am looking for, therefore I dont need prophets of gloom like you telling me that I support my party religiously, hell no!!
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But by supporting the anc you are supporting corruption and criminals, What if zuma stays president after manguang, are you still going to support corruption?
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Papage
Poor President, I feel sorry for him, why did he marry so many wives after all and so many children?Report Abuse
Laqasha
Zuma lost his chance when that guy drew a picture of his amasende and hung it on the wall for the world to see. He should have sued that guy, that would sort his financial woes.Report Abuse
Dandan
@JohnStoneshame, they are running short of ideas, lol
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Laqasha
Amasende of the president were displayed for the whole world to see, cha bo!
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Bohlale1
I am totally not in support of Zuma, his interview yesterday on Nations at work at SABC 2 got me thinking.. The poor guy is doing his best, just the cabinet, ministers, municipal managers etc... who are not doing this according to the way they supposed to be...Report Abuse
16-12-1838
@skwamasamabeleWell good luck to you my friend, I sincerely hope that Mangaung is going to be everything you wish for.
Somehow I doubt it though as their track record certainly doesn't offer much hope. Not wanting to continue being the 'prophet of gloom', especially as it is so close to xmas and all, but I fear your wish list will be ignored. All you will find in your threadbare stocking after Mangaung will be shiny boxes of empty promises and crackers bursting with false hope...once again!
However you are right about one thing - it will certainly be REVOLTING at Mangaung!
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JFK
John Stone well said:I wonder how much of our taxpayers money funded the Voeter Basoon[Dr Death] chemical warefare projects against blacks without any form of accountability , we know what the white led state did to us , we are not idiots : why you were quite during apartheid years , you were happy enjoying your previledges for whites only:
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!#Sinudeity#!
JFK - LOL, are you trying to use apartheid now to justify corruption?What you are in fact saying, is that the ANC is like apartheid.
*slow clap*
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Laqasha
Ungashayi mfazi ngempama, umshaye ngepipi.A certain paster said that.Report Abuse
MommaC
JohnStoneIt would help if you read the report. You wouldn't be making so many errors
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TheTrueWord
What is intriguing is that with all the financial woes then, JZ still continued to make babies and getting married. That just doesn't make sense. Unless if he knew that his position as a president will bail him out courtesy of Pravin.Report Abuse
!#Sinudeity#!
Hehehe, blame the media, throw around terms like 4th estate, 5th column...Whatever...
Merely buuutt-hurt ANC sheep trying to spin their way out of a quagmire... They are scuttling. Like rats trying to flee a sinking ship.
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cornelius
@Bohlale 1 " the poor guy is doing his best " No, he is not, he is appointing people based on their loyalty to him not their integrity and competence, he ducks and dives legal proceedings against him, denigrates the consitutiton, incites MKVA to " defend" him, uses our money for his many wives and children and other luxuries, please do not make the mistake of seeing him as some sort of victim. His last resort always is to portray himself as a victim, in his 2 big court cases, in the Nkandla matter he almost cried in parliament. This fellow is just not presidential material.Report Abuse
SOLUTIONS
MommaCJohnStone
It would help if you read the report. You wouldn't be making so many errors
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I always tell him he types his a.ss off with with no real content and so many mistakes, it makes me think of a empty bucket making noise. He is one of those who thinks the more he writes(talks) the more intelligent he would sound. In the mean time people laugh at him for not getting the facts straight.
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Garanteni
@JohnStone, what I am picking up in your argument is that Mandela is not the saint he is made out to be, R20 Million is a lot of money to be received by a politician without returning any favour, had this money been received by the very Zuma, there was gonna be a whole lot of racket, a debate for another day, some things may be deemed legally correct, but since Mandela has been used as the nation moral compass such amount put a dent in his name, you seem well versed in this, and defend the organisation from a more informed position, however those you defending seem to care less about the organisation but positions of power, I partly agree with you the media is in some mission to decide their darling candidate who should lead the organisation by bashing uMsholozi in the process. One thing for sure the organisation is slowly eroded, no amount of defending will save it from itself.Report Abuse
JohnStone
@corneliusA man who continually takes money from others is not a man, he is a parasite. When he is a influential political figure, and he takes it from corrupt businessmen like Shaik, who give the money for one reason only nl preferential treatment on government contracts, etc, he is corrupt, i.e. a criminal besides being a parasite.
And ANC supporters think he is fit to be president of the largest economy in Africa !!!!
It is only people who do not want law and order, honesty, and clean government, because they are benefitting from the current situation, who would want this man to continue being president.
Cry the beloved ( and once proud) country.
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Many of us, I mean true ANC members, just happen to know and understand things deeper than your avarage Sinudeity whose political immaturity and emotional outbursts are fueled by half-baked stories from the media.
Zuma is not a parasite but a victim since birth. Zuma was denied a proper childhood, proper and equal education because he is black. When he resisted racist and unequal treatment, he was thrown into prison wherein he served 10 yrs. He served 10 yrs, not because he committed a crime, but because the criminal regime did not tolerate anyone who talked peace, freedom and equality for all South Africans.
After his release, Zuma had to go into hidding because the criminal regime wanted him dead, all these things were done without regard for his level of education, nonetheless, educated or not, he remained a "danger" to the apartheid project. Zuma had to flee into exile, he only came back into the country when the ANC was unbanned in 1990. When he came back, he was almost 50 yrs old, no job, no profession, no pension and no compensation for illegal arrest and imprisonment.
Yet Zuma is expected to live and die a poorman, just as the architects of apartheid had designed for him and millions of blacks. Zuma is expected to have an education, worse still, it is mostly those who benefitted from apartheid, people like Helen Zille and F W De Klerk who received a better education because they are white, people who got better paying jobs because they are white, people who had professions and money before they became politicians because they were white.
I refuse to persecute and judge Zuma, Mbeki, Mandela and other freedom fighters using the same scale I use for the privilleged whiteman. Even Mandela would have retired a pauper had he not been given loads of cash by foreign govts and companies who felt a bit guilty for apartheid. Codesa or Tutu's TRC should have made provision for those who were wrongfully imprisoned to receive the same benefits such as houses and pensions, their time in prison was done in the service of the entire South African populace. Zuma, Mbeki, Mandela and others were supposed to receive houses, pensions and land as a start.
Whiteman still has it nice. Even Mugabe realized it too late that indeed the terms of the Lancaster Agreement were only binding on the blackman's side, hence he did the honourable thing and confisticated the land from the thieves, murderers, enslavers and colonizers.
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comtsotsi
So what,? There is nothing wrong with helping a cadre in need,Mandela saw a leader in Zuma which is why he assisted our Honourable President.You mathafackas are just jealous nxxx zinjaReport Abuse
zazezizozuzoooooooooooooooooo
@ Godess,I am also wondering if Flemza is what he claims to be, I have never heard a multi-millionaire bragging about being rich, imagine Motsepe, Oprah, Opheneimer,etc bragging on the blog that they are rich, I don't think they even have time to post their comments on the blog. MmMmMmMmMmMm Flemza dream on...
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Garanteni
@ JohnStone, not sure whether you have been appointed to deliver the Zuma lecture or its something you have picked up from Kgalema yesterday and you becoming emotional about it and doing a bad job.Report Abuse
!#Sinudeity#!
JohnStone - "Many of us, I mean true ANC members, just happen to know and understand things deeper than your avarage Sinudeity whose political immaturity and emotional outbursts are fueled by half-baked stories from the media."Err.... the ANC internal processes isnt rocket-science dude. If the average ANC member can grasp it, then ANYONE can grasp it.
"Zuma is not a parasite but a victim since birth."
Awwww shame. Trying to play the Zuma-martyr card. Again.
This dude isnt a martyr, he's a parasite. A leech. He uses his comrades for money, and then throws them away.
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!#Sinudeity#!
comtsotsi - LOL, and now the jealousy-card.The comrades are pulling all the stops today. Wit gevaar, 5th columns, jealousy...
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mavoz
PEOPLE should stop taking all the things that they read in the midia to head cause most of the are half the truth and some are bend to make the papers sell. Before you judge you need to know the truth first and have fact to support your conclusionReport Abuse
!#Sinudeity#!
mavoz - This report was from the AUDITOR GENERAL dude, not a made up story by the media.IF these stories are made up, why doesnt the ANC take them to the ombudsman? Could be, because they are not made up?
These anti-media arguments are lame, and ill thought of.
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mavoz
@!#Sinudeity#!What makes you so sure that its true and do you have the facts to support your statement?
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Fernie
@Garanteni, apologies my friend....I'm not frustrated though. I do take criticism and for the ANC to improve, yes they must be criticise but not insulted. @Solutions, why should I vote for DA if I may ask? They didn't do much other than attacking the ANC and Zuma. They must come up with something. You know to me DA is Helen Zille. Do they have deputy president no. Y am I going to vote for ANC, when I come from we only got electricity around 1999 and running water and sanitation around 2004...my high school was a mud school but now it is a modern school. The service delivery to the whole of SA won't happen over night much it will happen and I think only the ANC can do that. I was also encouraged by the Census 2011 results. There's an improvement but not as fast as we want it to be. When it comes to the education of our kids my questions to you will be, what are you as a parent (if you do have kids) doing to assist? Do you attend school meetings? Are you part of the SGB? If yes, thats a good platform. At the end of the day, nobody is perfect and I won't comment much about Zuma and his wives plus children because I'm not familiar with his cultural practices and believes and therefore I can not judge him on that although I know that he's not the first man to be a polygamist and he's not the last one. Over to you friends..Report Abuse
!#Sinudeity#!
mavoz - "What makes you so sure that its true and do you have the facts to support your statement?"The report is from the AUDITOR GENERAL dude. This was the evidence that the NPA was going to use against JZ, before political interference caused his corruption charges to be dropped.
Shaiks was found guilty for the bribe he paid, as stipulated in the report.
It was found a few weeks ago, that the Reddy person paid for JZ's bond, as stipulated in the report.
Now, do you have any evidence that the report is not true?
if not, shut the f*** up :P
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16-12-1838
@John StoneYup and so the cycle of abuse continues, the sorry tale of many a post-colonial African country! Just because the colour of the oppressors skin changes, doesn't make it any more acceptable I'm afraid. It is exactly that attitude of self-entiltlement and blatant selfish disregard for one's power base that has kept this wonderful continent back and has caused, and is still causing immeasurable suffering.
How can being a well connected freedom fighter justify mass tax theft, fraud and corruption? Hell if I had been an ordinary desperate youth who grew up in the townships of the 70's and 80's and faced the might of the Apartheid regime, with just stones, petrol bombs and serious risk of persecution - I would be incredibly disillusioned with how things have turned out. Still living in my matchbox house/shack, my kids with a lesser education than I received, no hope of employment, rampant crime, escalating cost of living, shambolic health care, a govt that still shows no regard for the majority of its citizens...I would be be very pi$$ed off!
Yet as long as those who were living in comfort in Zambia, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, London and even safe in the protected confines of Robben Island - are helping themselves to the spoils and milking this country for every cent possible, then I don't mind that! Even though I am now poorer, hungrier and more desperate for freedom than ever before? Because they deserved it, for it was not them who had to face the Buffels and Caspers?????
I'm sorry but your logic is flawed. How much longer can you and the anc keep flogging this tired old donkey? Time for change!!!!!
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mtsiri011
I will say it again, "not even 1 president of ANC has played an improving part in the growth of this country OR serve my community (SA) well, they turned it upside down. This corruption and cover ups are perpertuating, I personally dont not believe in a word written in the ANC manifesto, they have not achieved what should have achieved in a single year, they are very intelligent in criminal activities"It is true that one rotten potato spoil the whole bag OR like father like son.
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imfene
JohnStoneThe anc of today is definitely not the anc of my forefathers. This bunch of gangsters have no principles whatsoever and whether its rape or theft its ok because we will always have supporters who know not the difference between right and not right. Your children will be ashamed of your stand point.
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Garanteni
@ Fernie, my bado if it sounded like I am refering to you personally, I have never seen you responding with foul language, I was refering to most anc supporters who seems to be diminishing into insults every time an opposing view is raised. I can relate to most of your post, not sure whether you called yourself after a place somewhere in Mpumalanga, after Ermelo, Lothair...Report Abuse
lindsay
@JohnstoneZuma is not a parasite but a victim since birth. Zuma was denied a proper childhood, proper and equal education because he is black. When he resisted racist and unequal treatment, he was thrown into prison wherein he served 10 yrs. He served 10 yrs, not because he committed a crime, but because the criminal regime did not tolerate anyone who talked peace, freedom and equality for all South Africans.
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hahaahahaha you are a comedian of some sort so the apartheid victimised Zuma as to not get educated but was biased on Mandela to get a degree damn what did his parens do to verwoerd ?so if you are a delinquent who can't manage your finances you better blame apartheid hahahahahahahaha keep them jokes coming
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Moffdat
Mandela has always had such a wonderful heart!Madiba is awesome is what the focus of this conversation should be but nooooooooooooooooo!
Zuma this Zuma that get off Zuma's sack
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SOLUTIONS
Fernie,your message has lots of words but no content, you ask why vote DA,
DA has the best run city in Africa
The person who got Mayor of the year award over the whole world.
DA changed Cape town to become the best voted tourism destination in the world
Best Senior certificate pass rate
best schools
build more RDP houses in their term than the anc did.
the list goes on.
I actually are very involved with the school where my foster kid goes, I do not have kids of my own no, but the school he is in is a professional and very well established school, no government intervention needed, I will not put any kid into this governments school, you will put him so far behind.
Dude, you need to wake up and think of other kids if not your owns future, I mean, having a pass rate of 35%, what an id.iotic situation our education system is in. Once one of the best to this.
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!#Sinudeity#!
Moffdat - Sorry boet, from here were not the ones sitting on Zuma's lap...Its you, lapdog.
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Unamanwa
African National Corruption...ANC. NO ONE GOT THE FUTURE PLAN FOR THIS COUNTRY FROM ANC BOARD. EVERYONE GOT A FUTURE CORRUPTION TREE PLAN.Report Abuse
JohnStone
@imfeneJohnStone
The anc of today is definitely not the anc of my forefathers. This bunch of gangsters have no principles whatsoever and whether its rape or theft its ok because we will always have supporters who know not the difference between right and not right. Your children will be ashamed of your stand point.
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I agree with you on only one point; that "The anc of today is definitely not the anc of my forefathers". The then ANC of your forefathers was not in govt, the terrain has drastically changed and the chhallenges are totally different from what "your forfathers" faced.
The ANC, in its entire history, has had many phases and faces. There was a time when the ANC was like a cat on the couch (docile), but the formation of the ANCYL by Tambo, Mandela and Lembede radicalized the ANC which was faced with more brutality and repression by the racist white minority regime.
The current ANC leaders, not a 'bunch of gangsters' as you wrongly allege, are faced with a variety of challenges. In the past, it was easier to have an ANC that was seen as very morally upright because they did not have access to the same amount of resources as the current leaders are.
I have always argued against corruption, but also argued successfully that the democratic dispensation has placed our liberators at temptation's door. I always refer to Cde Zuma as a perfect example of how the past dictates the present and the future. Had Zuma not been denied an equal opportunity at life by successive white and racist minority regimes, maybe he would not have become a politician at all. Zuma has always said that he would have become a teacher, priest or lawyer had he gone to school.
Our democratic system limits the term of office to five years, internal party democracy also does not guarantee anyone a future deployment. So those who find themselves deployed for five years, they are to make the most in that five years, first they feather their nests, second they try and use the power they have to try and cling to power, that is human nature. Couple these things with a past that denied you an education, profession and business opportunity, then you have a recipe for disaster. Even if the liberators where not ANC, the same would still happen.
That is why I am arguing that those who sacrificed their lives in the quest for freedom where supposed to receive various forms of compensation so that they do not need to resort to other means to guarantee a good life after a shortlived political deployment.
It is easier for our white politicians and our young naive and uninformed black politicians to unfairly judge and criticize those that are in power now. Our white politicians who did not fight for freedom where only benefiting from the unfair, unjust system, by the time they joined politics, they already had a profession, a house and money.
Our young black politicians such as Lindiwe Mazibuko are beneficiaries of the struggles waged by Zuma and others, hence they went to multi-racial schools without being discriminated against, now they are free to join the DA and insult their liberators.
Hence I am saying, we were supposed to atleast level the playing field and compensate those that were wronged through wrongful imprisonment, exiled, denied an opportunity to live a normal life because they were busy fighting for our freedom.
Only Mandela was able to retire with no concern for tomorrow because some white people felt guilty and established a trust fund with almost R 20 million. The state spent almost R 29 million in ugrades, hence I am incenced when that liar De Klerk says "I only received R 100 000 worth of security upgardes. Yes, he already had a house with a wall, electric fence and cameras by the time the state came with upgrades. That is why in the 90s we did not complain and label Mandela "corrupt" when he accepted upgrades worth R 29 million.
The current levels of corruption has roots in the unjust system that created freedom fighters, who in turn did not have a normal life of education and a good well paying job. Anyone of us, put in that position with similar circumstances, would behave the only way, human.
My children will never be ashamed of me, they will be proud that I stood for something I believe in.
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SOLUTIONS
Johnstone,Our young black politicians such as Lindiwe Mazibuko are beneficiaries of the struggles waged by Zuma and others, hence they went to multi-racial schools without being discriminated against, now they are free to join the DA and insult their liberators.
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You must really stop with your lies and go and see who the real liberators was, please go and google the referendum.
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imfene
JohnStoneI retract my statement of your children with an apology. Enjoy the weekend.
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!#Sinudeity#!
JohnStone - And out comes the apartheid card to justify corruption :PEspecially love the part where you said, "I have always argued against corruption, but"
Thats not true, you are always defending corruption dude. Just like you are doing now. You blame the 'temptation' first, and then you say, because they spend time in prison.
Come on, confess to us, which one of the polokwane gangsters are you?
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JohnStone
@SOLUTIONSJohnstone,
Our young black politicians such as Lindiwe Mazibuko are beneficiaries of the struggles waged by Zuma and others, hence they went to multi-racial schools without being discriminated against, now they are free to join the DA and insult their liberators.
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You must really stop with your lies and go and see who the real liberators was, please go and google the referendum.
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I do not need to read about my liberators, I know them, hence I write about them. Why do a google search when I know who Steve Biko, JZ, Chris Hani, Mandela, Sisulu, Mbeki, Tiro, Sobukwe are and were?
Do you want me to read things written by anti-revolutionery morons? I refuse because I know Ruth First, Lilian Ngoyi, OR Tambo, Joe Slovo Bram Fischer and Oom Beyers Naude. These are the people who fought for my and your freedom.
I also know King Makhado, King Shaka, King Dingane, King Hintsa, King Sekhukhune and many more who waged relentless struggles against a tyrannical, racist, murderous and oppressive regime.
I know about slavery, colonialism and exploitation, what do you know beside cow dung?
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!#Sinudeity#!
JohnStone - You know alot about the struggle, but you know nothing about democracy and good governance.Report Abuse
JohnStone
@!#Sinudeity#!JohnStone - You know alot about the struggle, but you know nothing about democracy and good governance.
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My dear, since you "know a lot about demon-crazy and good gevernance", I will vote for you if you contest for a job as janitor at the IEC offices in 2014.
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16-12-1838
@JohnStone....um, what is it that you believe in again?
1) That corruption and theft is OK if you are a connected freedom fighter and have been denied social equity because at least you have history to blame for it?
2) That the ONLY ones who fought for freedom in SA are those holding senior positions within the anc, hence their justification for a prime position at the trough?
3) That all evil and wrongdoing, no matter how contrived and recent, is the direct cause of the actions of the white race?
4) That those young black professionals who are now successful, either in politics or commerce, because of their OWN hard work and dedication are not allowed to speak out against the destruction of their futures - as it is an insult to the very perpetrators of such selfish destruction?
5) All of the above?
You say a lot but I'm still just as confused, must be an anc thing?
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!#Sinudeity#!
JohnStone - Good, when JZ gets recalled, I will hire him to do my garden.Report Abuse
16-12-1838
!#Sinudeity#!I hear he's only good at digging a hole for himself ;)
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16-12-1838
...oh yes and sticking his pick in holes, even disease ridden ones. But at least he showers!Report Abuse
!#Sinudeity#!
16-12-1838 - I honestly cant believe peeps are still defending JZ...Report Abuse
16-12-1838
!#Sinudeity#!Blind allegiance and misguided endorsement of corruption and tax-theft by the faithful is what will bring this country to its knees. I know it was their aim during Apartheid but typical anc incompetence...still not achieved past the deadline (1994) and grossly over budget (R600 Billion was it?).
Hey, at least they have stuck with it and continue to try - credit where credit is due!
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JohnStone
@16-12-1838@JohnStone
....um, what is it that you believe in again?
1) That corruption and theft is OK if you are a connected freedom fighter and have been denied social equity because at least you have history to blame for it?
2) That the ONLY ones who fought for freedom in SA are those holding senior positions within the anc, hence their justification for a prime position at the trough?
3) That all evil and wrongdoing, no matter how contrived and recent, is the direct cause of the actions of the white race?
4) That those young black professionals who are now successful, either in politics or commerce, because of their OWN hard work and dedication are not allowed to speak out against the destruction of their futures - as it is an insult to the very perpetrators of such selfish destruction?
5) All of the above?
You say a lot but I'm still just as confused, must be an anc thing?
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I am saying that corruption is bad, very bad. As I said before, I deal with matters related to corruption everyday since my days as an investigator for the state and now as an independent consultant. In my 15 years of service, I have come to dig deeper to understand why corruption happens the way it does.
In most cases it is deeply rooted in greed. But there are other reasons as to why our politicians are found too close to the cookie jar. Since I have been a member of the ANC for 30 years, I have studied the trends and also researched on why many liberation movements, whose morals and values drove their struggle are found wanting on matters related to clean governance.
If you listened to Graca Machel a few days ago, she mentioned some of the things I have always argued about. She indicated that the corruption problem has gripped many liberation movements around the world and also in South Africa, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Namibia and Angola. Those who gave themselves time to look at root cause of the problem came to understand the underlying reasons.
People who were imprisoned or exiled, people who were denied a normal life from birth, denied an equal education, equal opportunities in sport and could not gain any meaningful employment are bound to be tempted when put in a position of power. Many of these freedom fighters in the different countries I have mentioned, they only started working through a deployment after liberation, some as old as 50 and above.
My main argument is that those who were imprisoned (wrongly), and exiled, as part of reconciliation and promotion of good gorvenance, were supposed to have been put in a position that would have ensured that when they occupy certain offices, they do not see the office as the only way they could own a house, car etc.
That is why the report about Zuma indicates that "financial institutions had to bend backwards in order to approve a bond or loan for him". Not only is his credit record an issue when it comes to being granted a bond, but his age will also come into play, a 59 year old applying for a bond would have to repay almost 4 times to what would be required from a 24 year old.
Remember, at 59 you are just a year away from normal retirement, at which time you must have finished paying off your bond. Now if a bank has to give a bond to such an old person, a security guarntee is required, hence Zuma had to rely on a friend like businessman Vivian Reddy to stand in as surety.
My argument is by no means geared at promoting corruption, but for all of us to look broadly at at factors that might have led the current state of affairs. That is why I am arguing that maybe we should have leveled the playing field so that financially, Zuma and Zille were not so far apart.
But the past that denied Zuma a normal life at the same time favouring Zille, affording her a life of privillege as a white person cannot be undone in a decade, we need to pull together. Are you all not surprised that no matter how we cry, things continue to go wrong?
Maybe as a country, we were too moved bu Tutu's tears at the TRC we just hugged and kissed, wrongly believing that all would "well" but we forgot to address the real problems, now we are stuck with the fruits of the seeds planted almost 20 years ago.
Much as you think and probably believe that young succesful black professionals got where they are today though their OWN hard work, I also believe it was made possible by the struggles waged by Zuma and many others who fought for equality, which was denied to them as young black children in the 30s, 40s, 50s all the way until the early 90s when apartheid was eradicated from our statute books.
I am sorry for confusing you, never was it my intention to do so.
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ProgressiveAfricanDemocrat
The story in the Mail & Guardian is not particularly original. They just recycled an old story. For a while Madiba was concerned that Zuma's financial woes would interfere with his political duties as an ANC office-bearer. As a result he gave Msholozi some money but it does not seem like that was the end of JZ's financial woes because it does seem continued on a spending spree.Report Abuse
!#Sinudeity#!
ProgressiveAfricanDemocrat - Builder Eric Malengret told the Shaik trial that Shaik had exclaimed: "Does he [Zuma] think money grows on trees?"Report Abuse
SOLUTIONS
JohnStoneYou must really stop with your lies and go and see who the real liberators was, please go and google the referendum.
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I do not need to read about my liberators, I know them, hence I write about them. Why do a google search when I know who Steve Biko, JZ, Chris Hani, Mandela, Sisulu, Mbeki, Tiro, Sobukwe are and were?
Do you want me to read things written by anti-revolutionery morons? I refuse because I know Ruth First, Lilian Ngoyi, OR Tambo, Joe Slovo Bram Fischer and Oom Beyers Naude. These are the people who fought for my and your freedom.
I also know King Makhado, King Shaka, King Dingane, King Hintsa, King Sekhukhune and many more who waged relentless struggles against a tyrannical, racist, murderous and oppressive regime.
I know about slavery, colonialism and exploitation, what do you know beside cow dung?
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Your comment once again is showing how thick and s.tupid you are, go and read about the referendum, you will learn a lot.
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16-12-1838
@JohnStoneMy sincere thanks for taking the time to rationally explain your point of view I genuinely appreciate it, likewise for your 30 years of devotion towards research on corruption.
Admittedly you will be far more qualified than myself to discuss its causes, effects and solutions but I disagree that we must just accept it as a natural phenomen, caused ultimately by greed and perhaps the denial of basic civil liberties. Even if it is part of the normal course of events that occur following the cataclysmic occurrences of something as life changing as emancipation from oppression, shrugging our shoulders and saying "Oh Well" just isn't good enough!
With the legal, political, public and economic infrastructure that the anc inherited and our once steadfast and fair constitution, which Mandela so proudly promulgated, the people of South Africa should have been protected from this cancerous affliction affecting those too close to the cookie jar. Unfortunately because of the deep scars that racial oppression caused, the euphoria brought on by the dawning of a new more inclusive chapter in our history and a tidal wave of national fervour sweeping the 'new' nation - ordinary S.Africans took their eye off the ball and lost focus while those we voted in with trust and hope, slowly and subversively, went about enriching themselves.
There is no excuse for that!
The results of this too, are on par with the evils of the previous crooked regime...in fact, generally speaking there is no difference whatsoever. Besides skin colour and origin, which our constitution determines insignificant anyway! What we had pre-94 was a socio-economic minority group (who just happened to be white) statutorily oppressing the majority, what we have today is another socio-economic minority group (majority who are black) economically (corruption/cadreism) and intellectually (lack of education) oppressing the majority.
So then after 46 years of anc rule, can we expect much of the same that happened after 46 years of NP rule? Will the children of our children still be looking at our history and leaders with scorn? Only now with far less working infrastructure, opportunities and hope - all eradicated by this perpetual cycle of oppression and economic exclusion, unbreakable because we were too slack and useless to do anything about it?
I for one my friend, will not sit back and accept that and say "Oh Well, it is a natural phenomenon and should be tolerated." Some of us have already made that mistake once in this country, only realising the truth when it was far too late and I will certainly do my very best to not let that happen again! Freedom fighter or not - all the people of this country deserve better!
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JohnStone
@16-12-1838I never said that corruption is 'a natural phenomenon". And I never said I spent 30 yrs researching corruption. I have been an investigator for 15 yrs in South Africa, that led me to research.
Since you have resorted to lies to support your arguments, our interaction shall cease right here and now, LYING SCUM!!!
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16-12-1838
@JohnStoneWhoa there, easy now! This is merely a communication of my viewpoint...I'm allowed to have one still aren't I?
In my defence (direct quotations)...
You - "Since I have been a member of the ANC for 30 years, I have studied the trends and also researched on why many liberation movements, whose morals and values drove their struggle are found wanting on matters related to clean governance."
Me.....Since you have been a member of the anc, you have researched morals and values and studied associated trends pertaining to them. How long have you been a member?
You - "People who were imprisoned or exiled, people who were denied a normal life from birth, denied an equal education, equal opportunities in sport and could not gain any meaningful employment are bound to be tempted when put in a position of power."
Me....As far as my understanding goes, GREED is a natural phenomenon that occurs in humans. Perhaps not philosophical and maybe not physiological, but certainly psychological. Corruption is just a by-product of greed!
I hear what you are saying regarding corruption, never doubting your stand against it and respect your many years involved in understanding it; so I am sorry that you have twisted my criticism and disagreement into a perceived personal attack. However, let me clearly state that unlike those despicable people who continue to rob this country of a decent future, I do not have to resort to lying and as a result my argument is always well supported by the actions and inactions of those in power!
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Mhlonitjhwa
Big up to JohnSta for lucturing these DA and anti ANC idiotsReport Abuse
PolyTix
And there JohnStone, you fly your true colours.............just as we got to know the anc for what their true colours'' really are!Puppets without frontiers
Clowns without borders
Pathetic.
Good reasoning "Dingaan", very good reasoning. Are you still involved with the "meerkat" project?
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STRAIGHTTALK3
FIRSTLY I WAS NOT SURE ABOUT ALL THIS CORRUPTION DRUMMA ABOUT OUR PRESIDENT, BUT AFTER READING RELATED STORIES ESPECIALLY THE CURRENT ONE, I AM CONCLUDING THAT JZ IS INNOCENT. OTHERWISE KEEP IT UP JZ, IN AFRICA YOU ARE THE FISRT PERSON TO INITIATE THE BUILDING OF A NEW TOWN IN A NEW PLACE. WITH THAT I SAY JZ KEEP UP WITH THE GOOD WORK.Report Abuse
!#Sinudeity#!
STRAIGHTTALK3 - Are you ignorant?So you read all the stories, and you conclude that JZ is innocent? Next thing you will tell us that you have been reading all the stories about wouter basson (doctor death), and hence conclude that this man is innocent.
Please man, just because you suuck on JZ's d1ck, and like the taste, dont try and convince the rest of us that its nice.
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Mandukulo
People, are you are aware that Italy is a mature Democracy, never been oppressed. People there are educated and well informed, yet they continue to vote for Silvio Berlusconi, the most corrupt, arrogant and womanizing thug. South Africa is a young democracy. People are not well educated and informed like Italy. We have to prepare ourselvs for 100 years of desert search, before we can get rid of people like Zuma.Report Abuse
Rockies
More wives more money problems!Report Abuse
Sasafrican
Who are you JohnStone,damn i feel for you broer......Report Abuse
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