There is a worrying notion in South Africa that material prosperity can be achieved without an education, says Free State University rector Jonathan Jansen
“I told him to f**k off,” said Jansen, to giggles from the audience.
Jansen is a man after my own heart :P Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
|Sinudeity|
Anyways, back to the article:
"Jansen said two of the country’s most influential politicians were semi-illiterate."
Yep.
And the majority of South Africans think they can follow in their footsteps, merely be given tenders, or live on grants. Meanwhile, as the age of the failed students increases, the finances of the country will decrease, unemployment will increase, tax income will decrease, and the country will have less and less finances.
And people will blame whit3s/apartheid for their own stupidity. Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
SEBIKIBIKI
I might not agree with Jansen on many other issues but on this one all i can say is " you were spot on " . Education is no longer prioritized, people need short cuts. BRAVO Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
siya0505
how can education be the way when you take up student loans and cant afford to pay them back bcos you are jobless.... i see guys who got A's in my class at school and i was looked upon as the NO FUTURE KID, now you would think that i studied way more than them and i only have a certificate to my name and they have degrees. stop trying to control people and let them be, if you can do the job so be it but dont come to me with qualifications and tell me you want more money, those times are gone... its not short cuts, i refuse to pay thousands for education that i wont be able to use in future Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
Credo
''''''......but the notion that children could be kept out of school for months for causes that have nothing to do with education is something worth pondering.......'''''
This, Mr Jansen, is how the mind of the idiotic troglodytes work ! This is their DNA make-up !! You can give them an ''education'', but you will never ever be able to civilize them.
Want to see lots of perfect examples ? Look at the government, from the top to the bottom !!!!!!!!!!!!! Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
|Sinudeity|
siya0505 - You use your education every single day. University/school teaches valuable life-skills. Like problem solving, social interaction. Studying till late at night teaches you perseverance and work ethics. Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
siya0505
i know that but how do you tell that to your kid when you did the samething and you are still unemployed.... Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
Papage
"A demand of R12,500 after tax is more than what a beginner teacher with a degree and teacher’s diploma will take home after deductions,” Jansen said."
Sis Teachers are earning Kak, I wish my sisters can see this, I refused to be a teacher like them, that is why they are for ever asking money from me.
As for the learned Prof, not only education can lead you to the green pastures and education is not the only way to achive you life ambitions, i have no degree, but come stay with me just for a month, you will never want to go back to your house, my house is my home, and stop beating about the bush, you are talking abou Zuma and Malema, why dont you face them and tell them that? What degree does Cyril and Motsepe has? Report Abuse
|Sinudeity|
DJ-Winner - But the DA has the best province. Mountains, ocean, wine, huge tourism, oldest city in South Africa, landmarks... next election, the ANC is going to lose two more provinces.
You can keep ECape and Limpopo :P
..............................................................................................................
I don't care about your mountains and I don't drink wine. I prefer new things to the old...
DA must go out compaign. ANC dropout will not automatically join DA. Change your policies to represent the majority and go out and compaign....Adding black faces in the parliament seats will not make people to automatically vote for DA. Your blackout strategy will not work... Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
Chichi7
how do you want the rest of the country to drive education when the leader is not educated? It gives the idea that anything is possible without stepping a foot in class. Report Abuse
At times I find the argument on this blog very childish, it's like little children boasting about who has a cool dad. I do not think that the bloggers really do see the difficulty that our country is facing, we are in a real leadership crisis and people just cannot get it. The country is not sinking, it has already sunk our carelessness and holding to stupid grudges has landed us in this mess, we need to think as one and find a solution of getting the country out of this mess before we become the DRC. We cannot pretend that the leadership we are parading and hero worshipping is doing a good job, this is not on. When will you people see hat we are now civilized slaves of a new master, we as black people we are not winning so who is? How can we pride ourselves of people who are enriching themselves and neglecting the education of a black child. If this is what the ANC calls freedom definitely it is not what Biko, Sobukwe, and Langalibalele Dube looked forward to. Closing of Aurora, target the few corrupt just because they oppose the present leadership and protect the rest who want to maintain the status quo. This is a shame, a big shame.
A demand of R12,500 after tax is more than what a beginner teacher with a degree and teacher’s diploma will take home after deductions,” Jansen said.
“What kind of society closes down its schools for months on end because of demands for a tarred road and for the ejection of a single person — the mayor?” Jansen asked.
“How do you explain 'tarred road now education, later’ or 'mayor fired, education later?”
=========================================================================
Please come and teach some of the bloggers here. I have seen them supporting the same idea of massive increases at Lonmin that you are condemning. Please come tell some bloggers to f#ck off as you told those guys.
How you do you explain burn the available classroom when you need more to be built?
what are talking about, you are still drunk cheap whiskey can do that sometimes. Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
Sipho2001
African way use forse to take things away from those that have it.
Instead of earning something through ahrd work. Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
Mzabalazo
SEP 27, 2012
Chichi7
how do you want the rest of the country to drive education when the leader is not educated? It gives the idea that anything is possible without stepping a foot in class.
///::///:::///:::
That is how cheap we're infront of the ANC, they provided us with a dum leadership and we proved to them that were that cheap for voting for such an unrecycleble leadership. We have destroyed the future of this country, we are as good as the leadership we choose. Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
Shredder
@Chichi7
how do you want the rest of the country to drive education when the leader is not educated? It gives the idea that anything is possible without stepping a foot in class.
=========================================================================
Explain to me how would the whole country be like if we are all uneducated? Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
Msola321
Yes one need education to see things differently but it doesn't always take you up there. I have a four years in Business Information System but my supervisor and Manager they dont have any formal education. My manager has being studying towards busines management diploma since 2005 Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
BiPolar
"Jansen said these were some the consequences from having a socially and educationally illiterate society; “where emotions triumph over logic, where reason is displaced by wrath, and where books take second place to rocks”.
----------------------
Well said -- it is the reason we are becoming a consuming nation!! We complain about the fong-kongs china manufactures for us but cannot manufacture the very same fong-kongs!! There is nothing of value that Africa is manufacturing that benefit the world! The way out of this mess is back-to-basics (Education) with the focus on Mathematics and Science. Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
BiPolar
@Msola321
Yes one need education to see things differently but it doesn't always take you up there. I have a four years in Business Information System but my supervisor and Manager they dont have any formal education. My manager has being studying towards busines management diploma since 2005
-------------------
Then you should be looking for another job and or start a consulting firm!! We need to realise that animal called R@cism still exisits in the work place! One person i know has a Masters in Information Systems from Cambridge but reports to a caucasian lady who has an MS-DOS Certificate! Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
BiPolar
@siya0505
i know that but how do you tell that to your kid when you did the samething and you are still unemployed....
--------------------------
"Knowing what to do and actually doing it are two different things" - with that said - Gathering knowledge is one thing but putting it to practice is another!! The S.A. Job market is becoming very competitive - that means people must "up-skill" themselves. It does not help to have an IT degree and you did MS-Dos when are now using Windows 7 - Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
|Sinudeity|
BiPolar - If only I had R10 for every time I heard that "I have a masters degree but I work for a white dude who only has matric".
Unfortunately these stories are always about someones 2nd cousins best friend. And you will always find that its not the case. Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
BiPolar
@|Sinudeity|
BiPolar - If only I had R10 for every time I heard that "I have a masters degree but I work for a white dude who only has matric".
Unfortunately these stories are always about someones 2nd cousins best friend. And you will always find that its not the case.
--------------------------
Some of our bl@ck people are "lazy" and they are afraid to take risks - Regarding educated bl@cks reporting to illiterate wh!tes - maybe we need to do a skills audit! of superiors and their delegates - it could be revealing!! Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
Shredder
@Papage - I hope you are not discouraging people to study.
Patrice Motsepe -
University of the Witwatersrand - Bachelor of Law
University of Swaziland - Bachelor of Arts
Cyril Ramaphosa -
University of South Africa (UNISA), B. Proc. Report Abuse
He forgot to mention Malema by Name. the last time we heard he was writing and we never heard about results or if he is still continuing. Maybe he wanted to be refered as a University drop out with one failed course. Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
|Sinudeity|
BiPolar - I'll copy and paste the jist of it for you:
Educational achievement is a more important indicator of why people are employed rather than race, the SA Institute of Race Relations said on Wednesday. "The proportion of people by race in professional positions closely mirrors the proportion of people by race with professional qualifications," said research manager Lucy Holborn. The data challenged the view that South African employers were resisting racial transformation in the workplace. Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
BiPolar
@|Sinudeity|
BiPolar - We did do a skills audit, quite recently by the SAIRR:
http://www.salabournews.co.za/index.php/home/latest-news/70-labour-news/6589-education-not-race-determines-employment-sairr.html
-----------------------
Thanks for sharing - I sure they audited the Top 100 Best Companies to work for -- not the average companies out there. most bl@cks with degrees - they need "Personal Development Courses" to be effective in real life, business or the workplace
@sin-deity
-------------
I maintain that with all the education - Africa as a continent is not producing anything of value that benefits the citizens of the world. Should we question the education system or the people? Or are people enrolling for Journalism, PRO, Office Admin instead of courses that will increase their capacity like maths and science? Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
BiPolar
@Mnumzane
He forgot to mention Malema by Name. the last time we heard he was writing and we never heard about results or if he is still continuing. Maybe he wanted to be refered as a University drop out with one failed course.
------------------------
Bill Gates, Malema and many others are drop-outs but effective in their respective endeavours!! However, we need a mental-shift -- Africans must pride themselves in being educated and using the education they acquire to benefit the masses!! Others like Mugabe has 7 degrees -- how many degrees do you have? Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
Neon
Thank you Prof. Jansen! Once again you are portraying the true problem in South Africa. Lots of Anc politicians make empty promises to the masses. Some people still wants everything handed out to them on a silver plate.
We waaaaaant we waaaaant da money - this is the new fashion, not knowing how you maintain an economy and wealth.
When will certain sections of the African population ever grasp this? Report Abuse
Sep 27, 2012
Sjekula
Magaqa can hardly compose a sentence and yet he is Secretary General. The community will then expect those people to invest in Education, to this day, nobody cares who actually dumped the Textbooks, and I'm definitely sure it wasn't Angie Motshega. The president may fire the Education minister, but what were teachers doing at school then, wasn't that worth a march, I mean if schools do not have textbooks, how do you teach? SADTU was supposed to organize a march, not unless they were enjoying the holiday. Report Abuse
Prof Jansen, your article reveals anger and typical African who thinks that being a professor/educated is a legitimate ticket to intelligent/high position/lot or descent salary and that others eg working in the mines deserve meager wage. I am disappointed in you. As a professor you should remain calm and rational and stop using words like f**** to other people. Your education should at least teach you or educate you to respect other people - what you said to the person indicates the depth of education you have. Pls respect other people, as an educated person teach the 'unducated' how much they worth (earnings) - but showing arrogance eish your title as professor eish...sorry not for me. Report Abuse
well said Prof and I know more people will be insulted by your logic, but truth hurts and nobody wants to hear the truth. JZ and Malema are idiots hence they always make uninformed decisions that will later come back to haunt them e.g Malema was ready to die for Zuma now he comes back and tell us that he made a big mistake, how can you trust somebody like that, how do you know if he is not going to make a similar mistake again in future, education is not everything but it will help you in many things through life especially when you have to make decisions, when dealing with people you need a higher IQ than them and you should also be emotionally intelligent to know how to separate your people and try to make everyone happy, these loud mouths are just there for personal enrichment. can somebody tell me how do we encourage our kids to go to school when our leaders dont have any educational background??? Report Abuse
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Comments
|Sinudeity|
“I told him to f**k off,” said Jansen, to giggles from the audience.Jansen is a man after my own heart :P
Report Abuse
|Sinudeity|
Anyways, back to the article:"Jansen said two of the country’s most influential politicians were semi-illiterate."
Yep.
And the majority of South Africans think they can follow in their footsteps, merely be given tenders, or live on grants. Meanwhile, as the age of the failed students increases, the finances of the country will decrease, unemployment will increase, tax income will decrease, and the country will have less and less finances.
And people will blame whit3s/apartheid for their own stupidity.
Report Abuse
SEBIKIBIKI
I might not agree with Jansen on many other issues but on this one all i can say is " you were spot on " . Education is no longer prioritized, people need short cuts. BRAVOReport Abuse
siya0505
how can education be the way when you take up student loans and cant afford to pay them back bcos you are jobless.... i see guys who got A's in my class at school and i was looked upon as the NO FUTURE KID, now you would think that i studied way more than them and i only have a certificate to my name and they have degrees. stop trying to control people and let them be, if you can do the job so be it but dont come to me with qualifications and tell me you want more money, those times are gone... its not short cuts, i refuse to pay thousands for education that i wont be able to use in futureReport Abuse
Credo
''''''......but the notion that children could be kept out of school for months for causes that have nothing to do with education is something worth pondering.......'''''This, Mr Jansen, is how the mind of the idiotic troglodytes work ! This is their DNA make-up !! You can give them an ''education'', but you will never ever be able to civilize them.
Want to see lots of perfect examples ? Look at the government, from the top to the bottom !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Abuse
|Sinudeity|
siya0505 - You use your education every single day. University/school teaches valuable life-skills. Like problem solving, social interaction. Studying till late at night teaches you perseverance and work ethics.Report Abuse
siya0505
i know that but how do you tell that to your kid when you did the samething and you are still unemployed....Report Abuse
Papage
"A demand of R12,500 after tax is more than what a beginner teacher with a degree and teacher’s diploma will take home after deductions,” Jansen said."Sis Teachers are earning Kak, I wish my sisters can see this, I refused to be a teacher like them, that is why they are for ever asking money from me.
As for the learned Prof, not only education can lead you to the green pastures and education is not the only way to achive you life ambitions, i have no degree, but come stay with me just for a month, you will never want to go back to your house, my house is my home, and stop beating about the bush, you are talking abou Zuma and Malema, why dont you face them and tell them that? What degree does Cyril and Motsepe has?
Report Abuse
|Sinudeity|
siya0505 - Valid point.Report Abuse
DJ-Winner
|Sinudeity|DJ-Winner - But the DA has the best province. Mountains, ocean, wine, huge tourism, oldest city in South Africa, landmarks... next election, the ANC is going to lose two more provinces.
You can keep ECape and Limpopo :P
..............................................................................................................
I don't care about your mountains and I don't drink wine. I prefer new things to the old...
DA must go out compaign. ANC dropout will not automatically join DA. Change your policies to represent the majority and go out and compaign....Adding black faces in the parliament seats will not make people to automatically vote for DA. Your blackout strategy will not work...
Report Abuse
Chichi7
how do you want the rest of the country to drive education when the leader is not educated? It gives the idea that anything is possible without stepping a foot in class.Report Abuse
|Sinudeity|
DJ-Winner - Wrong article dud.Report Abuse
Mzabalazo
At times I find the argument on this blog very childish, it's like little children boasting about who has a cool dad. I do not think that the bloggers really do see the difficulty that our country is facing, we are in a real leadership crisis and people just cannot get it. The country is not sinking, it has already sunk our carelessness and holding to stupid grudges has landed us in this mess, we need to think as one and find a solution of getting the country out of this mess before we become the DRC. We cannot pretend that the leadership we are parading and hero worshipping is doing a good job, this is not on. When will you people see hat we are now civilized slaves of a new master, we as black people we are not winning so who is? How can we pride ourselves of people who are enriching themselves and neglecting the education of a black child. If this is what the ANC calls freedom definitely it is not what Biko, Sobukwe, and Langalibalele Dube looked forward to. Closing of Aurora, target the few corrupt just because they oppose the present leadership and protect the rest who want to maintain the status quo. This is a shame, a big shame.Report Abuse
Shredder
A demand of R12,500 after tax is more than what a beginner teacher with a degree and teacher’s diploma will take home after deductions,” Jansen said.“What kind of society closes down its schools for months on end because of demands for a tarred road and for the ejection of a single person — the mayor?” Jansen asked.
“How do you explain 'tarred road now education, later’ or 'mayor fired, education later?”
=========================================================================
Please come and teach some of the bloggers here. I have seen them supporting the same idea of massive increases at Lonmin that you are condemning. Please come tell some bloggers to f#ck off as you told those guys.
How you do you explain burn the available classroom when you need more to be built?
Report Abuse
lindsay
@Djwinnerwhat are talking about, you are still drunk cheap whiskey can do that sometimes.
Report Abuse
Sipho2001
African way use forse to take things away from those that have it.Instead of earning something through ahrd work.
Report Abuse
Mzabalazo
SEP 27, 2012Chichi7
how do you want the rest of the country to drive education when the leader is not educated? It gives the idea that anything is possible without stepping a foot in class.
///::///:::///:::
That is how cheap we're infront of the ANC, they provided us with a dum leadership and we proved to them that were that cheap for voting for such an unrecycleble leadership. We have destroyed the future of this country, we are as good as the leadership we choose.
Report Abuse
Shredder
@Chichi7how do you want the rest of the country to drive education when the leader is not educated? It gives the idea that anything is possible without stepping a foot in class.
=========================================================================
Explain to me how would the whole country be like if we are all uneducated?
Report Abuse
Msola321
Yes one need education to see things differently but it doesn't always take you up there. I have a four years in Business Information System but my supervisor and Manager they dont have any formal education. My manager has being studying towards busines management diploma since 2005Report Abuse
BiPolar
"Jansen said these were some the consequences from having a socially and educationally illiterate society; “where emotions triumph over logic, where reason is displaced by wrath, and where books take second place to rocks”.----------------------
Well said -- it is the reason we are becoming a consuming nation!! We complain about the fong-kongs china manufactures for us but cannot manufacture the very same fong-kongs!! There is nothing of value that Africa is manufacturing that benefit the world! The way out of this mess is back-to-basics (Education) with the focus on Mathematics and Science.
Report Abuse
BiPolar
@Msola321Yes one need education to see things differently but it doesn't always take you up there. I have a four years in Business Information System but my supervisor and Manager they dont have any formal education. My manager has being studying towards busines management diploma since 2005
-------------------
Then you should be looking for another job and or start a consulting firm!! We need to realise that animal called R@cism still exisits in the work place! One person i know has a Masters in Information Systems from Cambridge but reports to a caucasian lady who has an MS-DOS Certificate!
Report Abuse
BiPolar
@siya0505i know that but how do you tell that to your kid when you did the samething and you are still unemployed....
--------------------------
"Knowing what to do and actually doing it are two different things" - with that said - Gathering knowledge is one thing but putting it to practice is another!! The S.A. Job market is becoming very competitive - that means people must "up-skill" themselves. It does not help to have an IT degree and you did MS-Dos when are now using Windows 7 -
Report Abuse
|Sinudeity|
BiPolar - If only I had R10 for every time I heard that "I have a masters degree but I work for a white dude who only has matric".Unfortunately these stories are always about someones 2nd cousins best friend. And you will always find that its not the case.
Report Abuse
BiPolar
@|Sinudeity|BiPolar - If only I had R10 for every time I heard that "I have a masters degree but I work for a white dude who only has matric".
Unfortunately these stories are always about someones 2nd cousins best friend. And you will always find that its not the case.
--------------------------
Some of our bl@ck people are "lazy" and they are afraid to take risks - Regarding educated bl@cks reporting to illiterate wh!tes - maybe we need to do a skills audit! of superiors and their delegates - it could be revealing!!
Report Abuse
Shredder
@Papage - I hope you are not discouraging people to study.Patrice Motsepe -
University of the Witwatersrand - Bachelor of Law
University of Swaziland - Bachelor of Arts
Cyril Ramaphosa -
University of South Africa (UNISA), B. Proc.
Report Abuse
mphephethwane
...spot-on.Report Abuse
|Sinudeity|
BiPolar - We did do a skills audit, quite recently by the SAIRR:http://www.salabournews.co.za/index.php/home/latest-news/70-labour-news/6589-education-not-race-determines-employment-sairr.html
Report Abuse
Mnumzane
He forgot to mention Malema by Name. the last time we heard he was writing and we never heard about results or if he is still continuing. Maybe he wanted to be refered as a University drop out with one failed course.Report Abuse
|Sinudeity|
BiPolar - I'll copy and paste the jist of it for you:Educational achievement is a more important indicator of why people are employed rather than race, the SA Institute of Race Relations said on Wednesday. "The proportion of people by race in professional positions closely mirrors the proportion of people by race with professional qualifications," said research manager Lucy Holborn. The data challenged the view that South African employers were resisting racial transformation in the workplace.
Report Abuse
BiPolar
@|Sinudeity|BiPolar - We did do a skills audit, quite recently by the SAIRR:
http://www.salabournews.co.za/index.php/home/latest-news/70-labour-news/6589-education-not-race-determines-employment-sairr.html
-----------------------
Thanks for sharing - I sure they audited the Top 100 Best Companies to work for -- not the average companies out there. most bl@cks with degrees - they need "Personal Development Courses" to be effective in real life, business or the workplace
Report Abuse
BiPolar
@sin-deity-------------
I maintain that with all the education - Africa as a continent is not producing anything of value that benefits the citizens of the world. Should we question the education system or the people? Or are people enrolling for Journalism, PRO, Office Admin instead of courses that will increase their capacity like maths and science?
Report Abuse
BiPolar
@MnumzaneHe forgot to mention Malema by Name. the last time we heard he was writing and we never heard about results or if he is still continuing. Maybe he wanted to be refered as a University drop out with one failed course.
------------------------
Bill Gates, Malema and many others are drop-outs but effective in their respective endeavours!! However, we need a mental-shift -- Africans must pride themselves in being educated and using the education they acquire to benefit the masses!! Others like Mugabe has 7 degrees -- how many degrees do you have?
Report Abuse
Neon
Thank you Prof. Jansen! Once again you are portraying the true problem in South Africa. Lots of Anc politicians make empty promises to the masses. Some people still wants everything handed out to them on a silver plate.We waaaaaant we waaaaant da money - this is the new fashion, not knowing how you maintain an economy and wealth.
When will certain sections of the African population ever grasp this?
Report Abuse
Sjekula
Magaqa can hardly compose a sentence and yet he is Secretary General. The community will then expect those people to invest in Education, to this day, nobody cares who actually dumped the Textbooks, and I'm definitely sure it wasn't Angie Motshega. The president may fire the Education minister, but what were teachers doing at school then, wasn't that worth a march, I mean if schools do not have textbooks, how do you teach? SADTU was supposed to organize a march, not unless they were enjoying the holiday.Report Abuse
MasheleJ
Yay Mzabalazo !!!!Report Abuse
140mji
Prof Jansen, your article reveals anger and typical African who thinks that being a professor/educated is a legitimate ticket to intelligent/high position/lot or descent salary and that others eg working in the mines deserve meager wage. I am disappointed in you. As a professor you should remain calm and rational and stop using words like f**** to other people. Your education should at least teach you or educate you to respect other people - what you said to the person indicates the depth of education you have. Pls respect other people, as an educated person teach the 'unducated' how much they worth (earnings) - but showing arrogance eish your title as professor eish...sorry not for me.Report Abuse
RobinH
Hats off to Prof Jansen!!Report Abuse
Msereza
well said Prof and I know more people will be insulted by your logic, but truth hurts and nobody wants to hear the truth. JZ and Malema are idiots hence they always make uninformed decisions that will later come back to haunt them e.g Malema was ready to die for Zuma now he comes back and tell us that he made a big mistake, how can you trust somebody like that, how do you know if he is not going to make a similar mistake again in future, education is not everything but it will help you in many things through life especially when you have to make decisions, when dealing with people you need a higher IQ than them and you should also be emotionally intelligent to know how to separate your people and try to make everyone happy, these loud mouths are just there for personal enrichment. can somebody tell me how do we encourage our kids to go to school when our leaders dont have any educational background???Report Abuse
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