COSATU general secretary Zwelinzima Vavi last night called on members to be vigilant, saying allowing the federation to be a lapdog would weaken the alliance.
i will be there making sure that cde Vavi get his position of secretary general again......... Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
Pointman
A combination of demagogues (Malema and AMCU) and useful idiots (the miners) have led to deaths, loss of income for miners and loss of investment for the country. Are we trying to build or destroy our democracy? The facts have been buried under a load of useless rhetoric. Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
Ndele01
I agree with Vavi that the miners have to be paid more and that the British are greedy (refer Lonmin management where 3 people are earning R38m. Also ABSA with their excessive bank charges - the banking Ombudsman is in the "pocket" of the banks - long ago already and he has no function anymore).
But I am surprised (or probably not) that the President showed no leaderhip at Marikana. Coming to a protest with weapons is looking for trouble. The President should have been firm that weapons are not allowed - are our people barbarians ? Striking alone will have the mining bosses listening - you don't need weapons - we are not living in the middle ages. The President never takes a stand on anything so that he can be elected again.
I agree that an investigation should be done into the police shootings but I wonder what the public feeling would have been if the first pictures shown by the media were those of the policemen hacked to death as opposed to the police shooting at the people ? You would immediately have taken the police's side.
In South Africa the first people guilty are the police, and the second, the individual who shoots a criminal in his house at 03h00 in the morning. Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
LBS
>>Vavi also highlighted the plight of domestic workers, farm workers, security guards and other low-income groups earning as little as R13 an hour<<
.......... and then we have those people who don't earn anything at all so what is the solution?
Demand higher (eg domestic) wages and even more people become unemployed.
IMHO workers in general have become VERY dissatisfied because of the government fat cats who think they are entitled to exorbitant salaries and perks, paid for by the hard pressed taxpayer!
The (the workers) see the disparity in lifestyles and also want to live large.
Trouble is there isn't enough money for everyone to live luxurious lifestyles. The best most of us can expect is to earn enough to pay the bills and live reasonably comfortably.
The ANC government have created a monster of entitlement which is feeding on itself. THEY made promises THEY can't keep and neither can the taxpayer.
They dished out grants which are unsustanable in the long run as more join the queue for a freebie rather than finding work.
When 'some' do find work they want mega salaries on minimum experience!
Demanding more and more, doesn't grow the money pot - it's more like to see the money pot taken elsewhere! Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
_Sinudeity
Half of the school kids, that enter the workforce, didnt finish matric. And the half that does, has an average pass-mark of 40%. Do these youths expect to be doctors, CEO's, programmers, scientists, engineers? Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
warry
@ ndele leave the president alone. First the strike is unprotected strike which means workers didn't follow the law. At the moment all may be fired and Lonmin will win that case in court. Second he announced a judicial commission of inquiry to establish the truth and decide afterwards.
Let's be fair, in future I think we should have a system that say if you not happy with what you earn then find something better. Nobody owes anyone in this world. Your failures in life should not be my problems in future, those miners may do a lot by improving their education level with that 4000 Rands but cause they have lots of girlfriends lots of kids or even wives why do you blame your employer the salary you giving me I can't feed my kids, my mother, my brothers kids. There are lots of opportunities in the mines let the study.
Cause the unions introduced them to thebculture of violence and lies let them be in a position to control them. Why do nt they encourage the mine bosses to educate them? Are they the unions treating them as cash cows while lying go them? It's time as south Africans to wake up and believing to doing things in our own.
Same an old man with eight kids fighting with police wanting an report house, he'll where we're you in your late twenties, thirties, forties, and early fifties? In exile? Hell Jong.
Vavialways talk cause he can is like saying there is lot of unemployment and the youth will oneday implode. Ok Mr Vavi what do we do to solve this problem? Ntsho he never give a suggestion.ok let parliament change some of our Labour laws to attract investors to create employment, he is number one to lead that march to fight the amendments. So what kindnof a leader is that. Or he thinks nationalisation is the answer? Implement it in our moral less society you shall see real poverty and war. If the minerals underneath make you hate the western countries then badluck. Start your own mines and let's see where you gonna get the skills of mining and the machinery and equipments.
Political education and education is important to the general public of South Africa. Let's not kill the dream of Mandela. Let's appreciate that. Yep we know that the hani they hated so much had to be killed cause he hated the idea of corporate freedom. Being freed cause of a certain corporate wanted you to be freed but will control you economically. That you don't fight its all over the world, even in the world biggest democracy the USA. Our miners are earning better to their counterparts in China the world second largest economy and a socialist state. Let people like Vavi not push their agenda by frustrating the population.
remember last year I informed you about two boys I sent to Madadeni FET , one is booked for trade test next week at Olifantsfontein for plumbing , he is finished , Im over the moon with these boys, very young 19yrs of age, the other one doing electricity I expect him too finish early next yr, Im proud for these boys to listen to me Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
kutsukuyi
@Ndele I do not think that you can expect the President to tell workers not to carry spears when he carried one on his weddings. Its a culture to carry a spear or knobkerrie to Imbizo or traditional ceremony Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
MommaC
LOL
'in partnership with Xstrata - the major shareholders in Lonmin?
Here is a clue Vavi. Stop making it so difficult to find a job and stop making it so difficult to get an education in SA and the situation will fix itself. It is a case of supply and demand. If we have more demand for workers and a lower supply of unemployed, they have a choice of who to work for and what salary to accept. Simple as that Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
Traveljunie
Vavi is part of this system and not helping. Unions are one of the biggesr problems in SA Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
warry
The more you are poor and uneducated the more the politicians define you. Being poor is a business to them. Have you ever heard them saying we will do this and that you the rich? Nope. Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
Sporoporo
pointman you are stupid my bra!!! "O MOLOMO O MOHOLO, O JELE CHOMPO"
its not about Malema or AMCU, its about the hard working miners, they deserve a living wage not R3500 which they cant even support their families with. me and you should not say anything because we are not miners.
I dont think we can go to work for R3500 a month, while knowing that the production value in over a billion a month.
im sure you dont even earn more than R7000 thats why you think they deserve it, and you were buzy commenting early in the morning " MOLOMO O MOHOLO" Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
_Sinudeity
Dandan - Nice, big congrats to them. Big ups to you as well. Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
_Sinudeity
Sporoporo - "I dont think we can go to work for R3500 a month,"
My 1st job got paid R2000 a month. But anyways... The figure keeps changing. First it was R10,500. Then it was R4500. Now its R3500.
Next thing we going to hear that the miners earn R500 a month. Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
Sporoporo
_Sinudeity
pls let them visit www.tshwane.gov.za/jobs maybe they can be lucky Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
MommaC
Sporoporo
There is a big difference between turnover and profit.
You also seem to have been misled about what the mine salaries are. Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
WarrenG
Yes Vavi you are the puppet master and the ANC is your boss...all in cahoots Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
ModiseP
ANC recruited COSATU intention to gain Mermbership and enable to control South African employees. ANC to avoid what Vavi trying to protect at the moment,Employees to form Labour party.Vavi is not aware of this things which means they were selling dummy to him.It is very clear that Vavi is not mentally genuine. Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
P4T
Vavi yekani to preoccupy yourselves ngezinto ze ANC (read Mangaung) and being in business (union owned companies investing in big business) at the expense of your core competency - solving worker's needs.
If you continue on this status quo, you will lose a lot of members as COSATU and bese niyakhala when other unions occupy your space.
my younger brother works underground there(with diploma in I.T), and they only go above that after overtime added and his been trying to get on surface with no luck Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
Duduzi
I wonder how many of us has stood infront of 6000 spear, panga and kierrie wealiding people KNOWING that life has no meaning for them; (two policeman hacked to death). When you have experienced this you can critisize the police. Everyone else is always to blame but those that caused the problem in that first pleace. I feel for those miners but let us be honast with each other this is not about wages or working conditions, this was a show between two trade unions, this should be the warning to Vavi as a fat cat himself, practice what you preach comrade.
Furthermore, let us call a "spade a spade" with 5mil + Zimbabweans and how many million others from other countries means that the same omount of SOUTH AFRICANS are without jobs so how can we negotiate decent wages for ourselves or how can we put bread on our OWN tables. The ANC Goverment has created this dragon through its own insecurities and now this dragon needs to be fed. R608bil to corruption since democracy I ask the question how many jobs could have been created with this or how many houses could have been built with this. No my fellow South Africans let us put blame where blame is due and stop beating around the bush, through our votes we only have ourselves to blame. Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
Mutadismutandis
I have attended the dialogue and i must say; this article is an accurate depiction and clear summary of cde Vavi's utterances/address. There is no stench of sensationalism in the reporting. I have to give credit to Sowetan and the reporter involved. We need more of this - not some faceless barbarians masqueradig as "anonymous sources".
I can't wait for more dialogues to come. You are guaranteed of my presence. Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
swona
Vavi, ur voice has been undermined by this government ever since the days of Mbeki, and zuma charmed with mlomomnandi from nkandla that he used on his wifes and girlfriends, and now you cant see anything wrong in him, like ur comrade blade, if you have headed the warning of that man sitting next to you before Polokwane, the 2beast on our heads should have been history! Report Abuse
I'm a bit surprised that no one is even talking about the people who were shot dead by the police. Those policemen are still at work today. Why is the governmnt not intervening in a case like this? I understand the police used laws that were used back then when there was apartheid to charge the mine workers of murder. Why do they still have apartheid laws in the system today?
It's still very legal today in SA for a policemen to shoot and kill someone protesting and walk away as if nothing has happened? I haven't heard anything being said about the police being investigated for doing what they did.
The government has up to today failed to introduce a national minimum wage yet they introduce all these bit and bobs that need everyone to pay for. People are still being exploited big time by the rich. Thats wrong....... Report Abuse
Sep 10, 2012
Ndele01
@Duduzi - you hit the nail on the head !
The problem is that the power llies with us people to vote the ANC out - yet we are just as passive a the Zimbabweans were - and seem to be heading in the same direction........(for Africans to change their destiny they must change the way they think)
All African leaders try and "accomodate each other" because they do business deals with each other - so they are not interested in whats good for their country - only themselves.
I like the Zimbabweans - but they should be sent home to take responsibility for their own problems. They, and we, seem to forget the responsibility that comes with freedom. You can't vote ANC today and strike over service delivery tommorrow - take responsibility and vote in the people in your community who can do the job. Report Abuse
Sep 17, 2012
BraSipho
What a lot of rubbish from Vavi!! He himself gets a fat salary and he is the leader of a union that is in bed with the same ANC goverment he is pretending to be critical against.
Mr Vavi, how many mining shares does COSATU own? In which mines and in partnership with which companies?
Get real, you do not represent the workers but only MONEY!! Report Abuse
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Comments
tibza
i will be there making sure that cde Vavi get his position of secretary general again.........Report Abuse
Pointman
A combination of demagogues (Malema and AMCU) and useful idiots (the miners) have led to deaths, loss of income for miners and loss of investment for the country. Are we trying to build or destroy our democracy? The facts have been buried under a load of useless rhetoric.Report Abuse
Ndele01
I agree with Vavi that the miners have to be paid more and that the British are greedy (refer Lonmin management where 3 people are earning R38m. Also ABSA with their excessive bank charges - the banking Ombudsman is in the "pocket" of the banks - long ago already and he has no function anymore).But I am surprised (or probably not) that the President showed no leaderhip at Marikana. Coming to a protest with weapons is looking for trouble. The President should have been firm that weapons are not allowed - are our people barbarians ? Striking alone will have the mining bosses listening - you don't need weapons - we are not living in the middle ages. The President never takes a stand on anything so that he can be elected again.
I agree that an investigation should be done into the police shootings but I wonder what the public feeling would have been if the first pictures shown by the media were those of the policemen hacked to death as opposed to the police shooting at the people ? You would immediately have taken the police's side.
In South Africa the first people guilty are the police, and the second, the individual who shoots a criminal in his house at 03h00 in the morning.
Report Abuse
LBS
>>Vavi also highlighted the plight of domestic workers, farm workers, security guards and other low-income groups earning as little as R13 an hour<<.......... and then we have those people who don't earn anything at all so what is the solution?
Demand higher (eg domestic) wages and even more people become unemployed.
IMHO workers in general have become VERY dissatisfied because of the government fat cats who think they are entitled to exorbitant salaries and perks, paid for by the hard pressed taxpayer!
The (the workers) see the disparity in lifestyles and also want to live large.
Trouble is there isn't enough money for everyone to live luxurious lifestyles. The best most of us can expect is to earn enough to pay the bills and live reasonably comfortably.
The ANC government have created a monster of entitlement which is feeding on itself. THEY made promises THEY can't keep and neither can the taxpayer.
They dished out grants which are unsustanable in the long run as more join the queue for a freebie rather than finding work.
When 'some' do find work they want mega salaries on minimum experience!
Demanding more and more, doesn't grow the money pot - it's more like to see the money pot taken elsewhere!
Report Abuse
_Sinudeity
Half of the school kids, that enter the workforce, didnt finish matric. And the half that does, has an average pass-mark of 40%. Do these youths expect to be doctors, CEO's, programmers, scientists, engineers?Report Abuse
warry
@ ndele leave the president alone. First the strike is unprotected strike which means workers didn't follow the law. At the moment all may be fired and Lonmin will win that case in court. Second he announced a judicial commission of inquiry to establish the truth and decide afterwards.Let's be fair, in future I think we should have a system that say if you not happy with what you earn then find something better. Nobody owes anyone in this world. Your failures in life should not be my problems in future, those miners may do a lot by improving their education level with that 4000 Rands but cause they have lots of girlfriends lots of kids or even wives why do you blame your employer the salary you giving me I can't feed my kids, my mother, my brothers kids. There are lots of opportunities in the mines let the study.
Cause the unions introduced them to thebculture of violence and lies let them be in a position to control them. Why do nt they encourage the mine bosses to educate them? Are they the unions treating them as cash cows while lying go them? It's time as south Africans to wake up and believing to doing things in our own.
Same an old man with eight kids fighting with police wanting an report house, he'll where we're you in your late twenties, thirties, forties, and early fifties? In exile? Hell Jong.
Vavialways talk cause he can is like saying there is lot of unemployment and the youth will oneday implode. Ok Mr Vavi what do we do to solve this problem? Ntsho he never give a suggestion.ok let parliament change some of our Labour laws to attract investors to create employment, he is number one to lead that march to fight the amendments. So what kindnof a leader is that. Or he thinks nationalisation is the answer? Implement it in our moral less society you shall see real poverty and war. If the minerals underneath make you hate the western countries then badluck. Start your own mines and let's see where you gonna get the skills of mining and the machinery and equipments.
Political education and education is important to the general public of South Africa. Let's not kill the dream of Mandela. Let's appreciate that. Yep we know that the hani they hated so much had to be killed cause he hated the idea of corporate freedom. Being freed cause of a certain corporate wanted you to be freed but will control you economically. That you don't fight its all over the world, even in the world biggest democracy the USA. Our miners are earning better to their counterparts in China the world second largest economy and a socialist state. Let people like Vavi not push their agenda by frustrating the population.
Report Abuse
Dandan
@_Sinudeityremember last year I informed you about two boys I sent to Madadeni FET , one is booked for trade test next week at Olifantsfontein for plumbing , he is finished , Im over the moon with these boys, very young 19yrs of age, the other one doing electricity I expect him too finish early next yr, Im proud for these boys to listen to me
Report Abuse
kutsukuyi
@Ndele I do not think that you can expect the President to tell workers not to carry spears when he carried one on his weddings. Its a culture to carry a spear or knobkerrie to Imbizo or traditional ceremonyReport Abuse
MommaC
LOL'in partnership with Xstrata - the major shareholders in Lonmin?
Here is a clue Vavi. Stop making it so difficult to find a job and stop making it so difficult to get an education in SA and the situation will fix itself. It is a case of supply and demand. If we have more demand for workers and a lower supply of unemployed, they have a choice of who to work for and what salary to accept. Simple as that
Report Abuse
Traveljunie
Vavi is part of this system and not helping. Unions are one of the biggesr problems in SAReport Abuse
warry
The more you are poor and uneducated the more the politicians define you. Being poor is a business to them. Have you ever heard them saying we will do this and that you the rich? Nope.Report Abuse
Sporoporo
pointman you are stupid my bra!!! "O MOLOMO O MOHOLO, O JELE CHOMPO"its not about Malema or AMCU, its about the hard working miners, they deserve a living wage not R3500 which they cant even support their families with. me and you should not say anything because we are not miners.
I dont think we can go to work for R3500 a month, while knowing that the production value in over a billion a month.
im sure you dont even earn more than R7000 thats why you think they deserve it, and you were buzy commenting early in the morning " MOLOMO O MOHOLO"
Report Abuse
_Sinudeity
Dandan - Nice, big congrats to them. Big ups to you as well.Report Abuse
_Sinudeity
Sporoporo - "I dont think we can go to work for R3500 a month,"My 1st job got paid R2000 a month. But anyways... The figure keeps changing. First it was R10,500. Then it was R4500. Now its R3500.
Next thing we going to hear that the miners earn R500 a month.
Report Abuse
Sporoporo
_Sinudeitypls let them visit www.tshwane.gov.za/jobs maybe they can be lucky
Report Abuse
MommaC
SporoporoThere is a big difference between turnover and profit.
You also seem to have been misled about what the mine salaries are.
Report Abuse
WarrenG
Yes Vavi you are the puppet master and the ANC is your boss...all in cahootsReport Abuse
ModiseP
ANC recruited COSATU intention to gain Mermbership and enable to control South African employees. ANC to avoid what Vavi trying to protect at the moment,Employees to form Labour party.Vavi is not aware of this things which means they were selling dummy to him.It is very clear that Vavi is not mentally genuine.Report Abuse
P4T
Vavi yekani to preoccupy yourselves ngezinto ze ANC (read Mangaung) and being in business (union owned companies investing in big business) at the expense of your core competency - solving worker's needs.If you continue on this status quo, you will lose a lot of members as COSATU and bese niyakhala when other unions occupy your space.
You lose focus, you lose members.
Report Abuse
Sporoporo
_Sinudeitymy younger brother works underground there(with diploma in I.T), and they only go above that after overtime added and his been trying to get on surface with no luck
Report Abuse
Duduzi
I wonder how many of us has stood infront of 6000 spear, panga and kierrie wealiding people KNOWING that life has no meaning for them; (two policeman hacked to death). When you have experienced this you can critisize the police. Everyone else is always to blame but those that caused the problem in that first pleace. I feel for those miners but let us be honast with each other this is not about wages or working conditions, this was a show between two trade unions, this should be the warning to Vavi as a fat cat himself, practice what you preach comrade.Furthermore, let us call a "spade a spade" with 5mil + Zimbabweans and how many million others from other countries means that the same omount of SOUTH AFRICANS are without jobs so how can we negotiate decent wages for ourselves or how can we put bread on our OWN tables. The ANC Goverment has created this dragon through its own insecurities and now this dragon needs to be fed. R608bil to corruption since democracy I ask the question how many jobs could have been created with this or how many houses could have been built with this. No my fellow South Africans let us put blame where blame is due and stop beating around the bush, through our votes we only have ourselves to blame.
Report Abuse
Mutadismutandis
I have attended the dialogue and i must say; this article is an accurate depiction and clear summary of cde Vavi's utterances/address. There is no stench of sensationalism in the reporting. I have to give credit to Sowetan and the reporter involved. We need more of this - not some faceless barbarians masqueradig as "anonymous sources".I can't wait for more dialogues to come. You are guaranteed of my presence.
Report Abuse
swona
Vavi, ur voice has been undermined by this government ever since the days of Mbeki, and zuma charmed with mlomomnandi from nkandla that he used on his wifes and girlfriends, and now you cant see anything wrong in him, like ur comrade blade, if you have headed the warning of that man sitting next to you before Polokwane, the 2beast on our heads should have been history!Report Abuse
Takkie
Who is fooling who?Report Abuse
deljay
I'm a bit surprised that no one is even talking about the people who were shot dead by the police. Those policemen are still at work today. Why is the governmnt not intervening in a case like this? I understand the police used laws that were used back then when there was apartheid to charge the mine workers of murder. Why do they still have apartheid laws in the system today?It's still very legal today in SA for a policemen to shoot and kill someone protesting and walk away as if nothing has happened? I haven't heard anything being said about the police being investigated for doing what they did.
The government has up to today failed to introduce a national minimum wage yet they introduce all these bit and bobs that need everyone to pay for. People are still being exploited big time by the rich. Thats wrong.......
Report Abuse
Ndele01
@Duduzi - you hit the nail on the head !The problem is that the power llies with us people to vote the ANC out - yet we are just as passive a the Zimbabweans were - and seem to be heading in the same direction........(for Africans to change their destiny they must change the way they think)
All African leaders try and "accomodate each other" because they do business deals with each other - so they are not interested in whats good for their country - only themselves.
I like the Zimbabweans - but they should be sent home to take responsibility for their own problems. They, and we, seem to forget the responsibility that comes with freedom. You can't vote ANC today and strike over service delivery tommorrow - take responsibility and vote in the people in your community who can do the job.
Report Abuse
BraSipho
What a lot of rubbish from Vavi!! He himself gets a fat salary and he is the leader of a union that is in bed with the same ANC goverment he is pretending to be critical against.Mr Vavi, how many mining shares does COSATU own? In which mines and in partnership with which companies?
Get real, you do not represent the workers but only MONEY!!
Report Abuse
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