"South Africa spends more on health care than many other countries yet patient care is declining"...
....But the bank accounts of certain people, with friends in the right places, are severely increasing! Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
MommaC
Doc, leave the damn private industry alone and get the government run hospitals up and running smoothly. People have medical aid because they don't dare go to state hospitals. If state hospitals were halfway decent, we wouldn't be so scared to use them and then private medical would come down as they would need to be competitive.
For goodness sakes, man, Fix the damn public health already and stop being sidetracked by issues that are not even within your mandate Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
The-Vince
Mr Aaron Motsaoledi, since you are the minister of health what is it that you think should be done to improve the situation instead of telling us the problems, how about we find a solution Sir.....you have been put there to make things better right? so do your job and start finding ways of alleviating the current circumstances. Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
Pointman
How come such an important portfolio has had successive doofus in charge. The resulting mess was a given. While Aaron has acknowledged the mess - credit to him - several times now, why hos no one been fired. That always fixes broken organisations. Report Abuse
I hate south africa especially when the leader is Shower Bald Head Stupid Z...Lu. Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
MorenaWaPolelo
I drove past Bara the other day Doc and I doubt if I would wanna go there, with due respect Sir the place looks like a ........ Sir, I will take my chaces with private health care Sir. Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
The-Vince
ha ha ha ha.....@Sinuedity..lol bro.
You know these days everything is blamed on apartheid, just because some bastards are incompetent, it's been 18yrs and there hasn't been much improvement, still blaming partheid.
Probably he forgot to read the part in his speech that the reason why the health system is in shambles is because of apartheid. Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
sowet123
“In South Africa, we still think little of primary health care... While premiums [of medical schemes] are increasing, patient care is declining.”
=========================================================
Good point medical aid schemes are ripping us off these days.’
Government clinics and hospitals services are getting worse
Unfortunately for us poor citizen we only have 2 options, to die while seeking medical assistance or pay money that we don't have for medical aid
_Sinudeity
LBS - "In the good-old-bad-old days we never had, nor needed medical aid, we ALL used public hospitals and they were good.
What happened?"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Apartheid I dnt think so?? But I would have said Apartheid so the speech is complete....lol
Dlamini-Zuma or Manto one of the two
ANSWERS TO DISCUSSION POINTS.
>Improve the health system.
>Nursing schools closing down: what did you expect.
>Scrapp the existing scheme it did not work at all, find something else.
>Yes there should be a separate entity to monitor funds and control those filthy tenders.
>Give it to the private sector, as I believe they wont hire incompetent individuals who do not even qualify for the positions.
>Regulate the costs, because you failed running it by yourselves.
>Yes medical schemes are so flippin expensive, you messed it up by doing away with company medical aid.
Solution Sir: do what ive suggested and that suggested by others. Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
RobinH
The solution is simple. Get rid of all the high ranking Health officials and those politicians granting unfulfilled tenders to buddies. Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
The-Vince
LBS
In the good-old-bad-old days we never had, nor needed medical aid, we ALL used public hospitals and they were good.
What happened?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@LBS True though, but again we must remember that the best was reserved for certain people. and all that was less desireble was given to the not so deserving people.
In those days though the good thing is that a nurse was a real nurse and a doctor was a real doctor, these were the most respected and highly ranked professions, young man and woman dreamt of seeing themslves in white gowns as nurses or doctors. These days nurse are just nurses by name, they stand on corridors and gossip about sh!t, doctors have turned to be rapists and abusers. Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
Papage
"We are a country spending more on health but having poor outcomes"
Lots of fake Doctors and fonkon medication Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
SetlaboswanaBoy07
An urgent improvement of public health is needed
The challenge is the ANC, if we put right people in right places for right reasons we will win,
all the MEC's in all the Departments are pushing the mandates of the ruling party which are:-
1. Make sure that our business associates get tenders
2. Make sure that our comrades get jobs and promotions irrespective of whether they qualify for those jobs
3. If you dont do that you will be out of the office in a week's time.
You cannot serve two masters at a time minister, the public and ANC.
Because the CEO's in the Hospitals are comrades, they are failing even to monitor their Doctors, There is no Doctor here in Mzansi with a written warning for late coming, absence, coming to work drunk. Most of them are having their own surgeries while employed by the state. they tke most of their time at their surgeries.
Until the ruling party does not interfere with their silly mandates, We will loose the battle mr Minister.
---------------------
I'll give you THAT one and raise you no training and lack of commitment?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
@MorenaWaPolelo
Apartheid I dnt think so?? But I would have said Apartheid so the speech is complete....lol
Dlamini-Zuma or Manto one of the two
-------------------
LOL Apartheid can only get blamed for things, no credits for anything good allowed! ;) Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
sowet123
@ The-Vince
young man and woman dreamt of seeing themslves in white gowns as nurses or doctors. These days nurse are just nurses by name, they stand on corridors and gossip about sh!t, doctors have turned to be rapists and abusers.
-------------------------------------------------
True Morethan 75% of young nurses are just nurses by name no passion at all
@The-Vince
LBS
In the good-old-bad-old days we never had, nor needed medical aid, we ALL used public hospitals and they were good.
What happened?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@LBS True though, but again we must remember that the best was reserved for certain people. and all that was less desireble was given to the not so deserving people.
In those days though the good thing is that a nurse was a real nurse and a doctor was a real doctor, these were the most respected and highly ranked professions, young man and woman dreamt of seeing themslves in white gowns as nurses or doctors. These days nurse are just nurses by name, they stand on corridors and gossip about sh!t, doctors have turned to be rapists and abusers.
----------------------------------------
I don't know that the best was reserved etc etc because there were many black hospitals of excellent standard. Bara being one of them, and world renowned too. Now look how things have slipped there.
The facilities were there, they just needed expanding to serve all, instead we are facing cr@p in all directions if you can't afford private doctors and MA
Addington in Durban used to be wonderful - when my son was injured in a car accident the ambulance took him there (SOP) - the SR in charge told us to move him to private ASAP if we could afford it.
Fortunately we could, but what about other less fortunate?!
Sadly I can't argue with anything in your 2nd paragraph. :(
Nursing used to be a calling now it's just a job for many! Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
Papage
This Ministers, they see the problems, instead of solving them they point us the Public where the problem is, what must we do? come on do your work and stop talking too much, we need action Report Abuse
Lehido: And if JZ says so it MUST be true, not so...... Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
Blackstone.lebs
Mr Minister, get your house in order first before trying to regulate the private sector. Provinces are underspending on health projects annually, hospital revitalisation programmes progress at snail pace, staff morale in public health facilities is low...get these sorted and well start using public facilities. Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
Pointman
@RobinH Lehido: And if JZ says so it MUST be true, not so......
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Lehido was being sarcastic.
Our health system is pathetic, i went to government infected by drop,istead of helping me they wanted to cut my Gozozo by doing opreation but i ran away Report Abuse
Sep 7, 2012
The_Only_1
Motsoaledi said uncontrolled commercialisation was “consuming” health care in the country; and there will be Only_1 failure; the Patients. Mh! The Minister of basic education on the other hand she said she does not deliver books; when booksc were delayed in Limpopo! Motsoaledi your position gives you powers to take decisions that will benefits South Africans at large. Your starting point will be to do a benchmark study when it comes to Public Health Care system compared to Private Health Care system and make a price comparison for example of a price of Panado between the two health care systems. You will realise that in a Private Health Care system ; they are charging exorbitant amounts on medication which results in medical aid schemes increasing prices more than CPIX index. Then you will need to do a Root Cause Analyses or what is called Sensitivity Analyses, and these studies will tell you exactly where the problem is. As a Minister then you can recommend that a Bill be imposed as a controlling measure. So use your power which comes with skills and stop becoming a Media/TV Star! Report Abuse
Sep 8, 2012
MasheleJ
Like many other citizens I've personal experience of this health care shambles and so choose NOT to make use of the service anymore.
Any complaints are dealt with are dealt with in a discouraging bureaucratic manner which requires the patient to make additional unaffordable long journeys to testify and, of course, the SA Health department and SA Medical council simply fail to respond to efforts to communicate.
An email to the Public Protector was dealt with in similar fashion - I was advised to write to the above-named institutions at their respective postal addresses because the electronic service is not functional!
And a similar issue exists in reporting criminal matters to the DOT&I and the SAPS.
The ANC won't receive any more support from me!!!! Report Abuse
Sep 8, 2012
somaartakeit
moetswaledi or whatever your name is, please stop stating the obvious and tell us what your game plan as minister of health is!! don't be another black leader who is without a plan/strategy and goal to take NHS out of the morass the anc regime of incompetents has dunked it into, use your brains be innovative, come up with a business plan on how you will change the picture and table it to the public, so we can see how we can support your dept and help bring reverse, stop whinging we are about enough of this cause we also have our whinges come up with solution, be a leader that's what you are being paid for. Report Abuse
Sep 8, 2012
somaartakeit
@_Sinudeity
LBS - "In the good-old-bad-old days we never had, nor needed medical aid, we ALL used public hospitals and they were good.
What happened?"
Honourable Mr Minister amongst your questions that you raised, you have indicated to us that you obviously know the answer, even if you opted to ask questions relevant which displays your fears of acting accordingly against the ills to solve the problem. The only thing that you lack is braviness in taking actions.
Why spending more on health system with little outcome ? The answer is obvious, you are not spending on healthcare, you know that. You are spending a lot of money in the name of healthcare into the hands of the corrupted hyenas, very little or none is reaching the healthcare system with the objective and purpose to improve the lives and health of patients, hence the outcome that you see and complaining about is correct and a reality reflection to what you are actually spending on and is happening within the healthcare system. It is a fact as you have said already that patient is a loser. You cannt challenge the private healthcare , as the public healthcare at present is far away from matching the competition with private care. Public health care has lost the trust of the main public, due to poor reputation and the millions of victims who lost their lives in the hands of the poor perfoming public health, thus losing competition to private healthcare and giving it a chance to charge for medical care as much as they please, due to no competition.
Solution: 1. you have to overhaul the whole healthcare system.
2. Do away with tender system and get works department to do the job , under cctv. (close observation and supervision) without fear and favour in firing those who cant account for incompetence to their duties.
3.Re instate the hospitals management under superintendants( Doctors) with clinical experience to manage medically and take medically friendly decisions for the healthcare presenting needs, not the present hospital managers , who are clarkes by qualifications, hence concerns by managing money more than saving lives as health care anticipates.But medical manager who spends to manage life as a priority and account for money spent thereafter, is a dire need for the helpless ,patients. Not clarkes as hspt.mngers who ignorently bar life saving process to save money , whilst ignoring the lives imperativeness.Hence renders themselves as robots managers illrelevant to management anticipation in this life saving field.
4. Re incorporate nursing schools under hospitals , for nursing patient care experienced healthcare givers products of nurses who acts being inspired by ethics, conscious, scientific knowledge and art in saving lives , than privately trained care givers with theory and less patient care experience, whose acts are mostly guided by money chasing than set of anticipated care morals, hence less life accountability.
5.Last but not least healthcare public protecting organisations must actively be involved and felt , like SANC and SAMC in protecting the public against the ills driven by careerism, involving proffessional impersonators targetting healthcare proffessions and imposing life dangers to public for their ends meet.
4. Report Abuse
Sep 9, 2012
KeRataBasadi
Minister you already know the answers to your questions, now pls get down to it. Report Abuse
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Comments
_Sinudeity
"South Africa spends more on health care than many other countries yet patient care is declining, says Health Minister Aaron Motsoaledi"Apartheid! :P
Report Abuse
candilious
@Sin ,...............lolReport Abuse
16-12-1838
"South Africa spends more on health care than many other countries yet patient care is declining".......But the bank accounts of certain people, with friends in the right places, are severely increasing!
Report Abuse
MommaC
Doc, leave the damn private industry alone and get the government run hospitals up and running smoothly. People have medical aid because they don't dare go to state hospitals. If state hospitals were halfway decent, we wouldn't be so scared to use them and then private medical would come down as they would need to be competitive.For goodness sakes, man, Fix the damn public health already and stop being sidetracked by issues that are not even within your mandate
Report Abuse
The-Vince
Mr Aaron Motsaoledi, since you are the minister of health what is it that you think should be done to improve the situation instead of telling us the problems, how about we find a solution Sir.....you have been put there to make things better right? so do your job and start finding ways of alleviating the current circumstances.Report Abuse
Pointman
How come such an important portfolio has had successive doofus in charge. The resulting mess was a given. While Aaron has acknowledged the mess - credit to him - several times now, why hos no one been fired. That always fixes broken organisations.Report Abuse
Mokwepa
One Loser is Bafana BafanaReport Abuse
Arewanga
I hate south africa especially when the leader is Shower Bald Head Stupid Z...Lu.Report Abuse
MorenaWaPolelo
I drove past Bara the other day Doc and I doubt if I would wanna go there, with due respect Sir the place looks like a ........ Sir, I will take my chaces with private health care Sir.Report Abuse
The-Vince
ha ha ha ha.....@Sinuedity..lol bro.You know these days everything is blamed on apartheid, just because some bastards are incompetent, it's been 18yrs and there hasn't been much improvement, still blaming partheid.
Probably he forgot to read the part in his speech that the reason why the health system is in shambles is because of apartheid.
Report Abuse
sowet123
“In South Africa, we still think little of primary health care... While premiums [of medical schemes] are increasing, patient care is declining.”=========================================================
Good point medical aid schemes are ripping us off these days.’
Government clinics and hospitals services are getting worse
Unfortunately for us poor citizen we only have 2 options, to die while seeking medical assistance or pay money that we don't have for medical aid
Report Abuse
KasiKid
This guy keeps feeding this country with the problems but I have never heard him give any solutions to those problems...Report Abuse
LBS
In the good-old-bad-old days we never had, nor needed medical aid, we ALL used public hospitals and they were good.What happened?
Report Abuse
_Sinudeity
LBS - "In the good-old-bad-old days we never had, nor needed medical aid, we ALL used public hospitals and they were good.What happened?"
Apartheid.
Report Abuse
Mosebstra
And yet our government is championing NHI when they can't even match the standard of private health care to launch it successfullyReport Abuse
KasiKid
LBSCorruption!
Report Abuse
MorenaWaPolelo
_SinudeityLBS - "In the good-old-bad-old days we never had, nor needed medical aid, we ALL used public hospitals and they were good.
What happened?"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Apartheid I dnt think so?? But I would have said Apartheid so the speech is complete....lol
Dlamini-Zuma or Manto one of the two
Report Abuse
The-Vince
ANSWERS TO DISCUSSION POINTS.
>Improve the health system.
>Nursing schools closing down: what did you expect.
>Scrapp the existing scheme it did not work at all, find something else.
>Yes there should be a separate entity to monitor funds and control those filthy tenders.
>Give it to the private sector, as I believe they wont hire incompetent individuals who do not even qualify for the positions.
>Regulate the costs, because you failed running it by yourselves.
>Yes medical schemes are so flippin expensive, you messed it up by doing away with company medical aid.
Solution Sir: do what ive suggested and that suggested by others.
Report Abuse
RobinH
The solution is simple. Get rid of all the high ranking Health officials and those politicians granting unfulfilled tenders to buddies.Report Abuse
The-Vince
LBSIn the good-old-bad-old days we never had, nor needed medical aid, we ALL used public hospitals and they were good.
What happened?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@LBS True though, but again we must remember that the best was reserved for certain people. and all that was less desireble was given to the not so deserving people.
In those days though the good thing is that a nurse was a real nurse and a doctor was a real doctor, these were the most respected and highly ranked professions, young man and woman dreamt of seeing themslves in white gowns as nurses or doctors. These days nurse are just nurses by name, they stand on corridors and gossip about sh!t, doctors have turned to be rapists and abusers.
Report Abuse
Papage
"We are a country spending more on health but having poor outcomes"Lots of fake Doctors and fonkon medication
Report Abuse
SetlaboswanaBoy07
An urgent improvement of public health is neededThe challenge is the ANC, if we put right people in right places for right reasons we will win,
all the MEC's in all the Departments are pushing the mandates of the ruling party which are:-
1. Make sure that our business associates get tenders
2. Make sure that our comrades get jobs and promotions irrespective of whether they qualify for those jobs
3. If you dont do that you will be out of the office in a week's time.
You cannot serve two masters at a time minister, the public and ANC.
Because the CEO's in the Hospitals are comrades, they are failing even to monitor their Doctors, There is no Doctor here in Mzansi with a written warning for late coming, absence, coming to work drunk. Most of them are having their own surgeries while employed by the state. they tke most of their time at their surgeries.
Until the ruling party does not interfere with their silly mandates, We will loose the battle mr Minister.
Report Abuse
LBS
@_SinudeityLBS - "In the good-old-bad-old days we never had, nor needed medical aid, we ALL used public hospitals and they were good.
What happened?"
Apartheid.
----------------------
That WAS apartheid sooooooooo .......... ??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
@KasiKid
LBS
Corruption!
---------------------
I'll give you THAT one and raise you no training and lack of commitment?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
@MorenaWaPolelo
Apartheid I dnt think so?? But I would have said Apartheid so the speech is complete....lol
Dlamini-Zuma or Manto one of the two
-------------------
LOL Apartheid can only get blamed for things, no credits for anything good allowed! ;)
Report Abuse
sowet123
@ The-Vinceyoung man and woman dreamt of seeing themslves in white gowns as nurses or doctors. These days nurse are just nurses by name, they stand on corridors and gossip about sh!t, doctors have turned to be rapists and abusers.
-------------------------------------------------
True Morethan 75% of young nurses are just nurses by name no passion at all
Report Abuse
LBS
@The-VinceLBS
In the good-old-bad-old days we never had, nor needed medical aid, we ALL used public hospitals and they were good.
What happened?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@LBS True though, but again we must remember that the best was reserved for certain people. and all that was less desireble was given to the not so deserving people.
In those days though the good thing is that a nurse was a real nurse and a doctor was a real doctor, these were the most respected and highly ranked professions, young man and woman dreamt of seeing themslves in white gowns as nurses or doctors. These days nurse are just nurses by name, they stand on corridors and gossip about sh!t, doctors have turned to be rapists and abusers.
----------------------------------------
I don't know that the best was reserved etc etc because there were many black hospitals of excellent standard. Bara being one of them, and world renowned too. Now look how things have slipped there.
The facilities were there, they just needed expanding to serve all, instead we are facing cr@p in all directions if you can't afford private doctors and MA
Addington in Durban used to be wonderful - when my son was injured in a car accident the ambulance took him there (SOP) - the SR in charge told us to move him to private ASAP if we could afford it.
Fortunately we could, but what about other less fortunate?!
Sadly I can't argue with anything in your 2nd paragraph. :(
Nursing used to be a calling now it's just a job for many!
Report Abuse
Papage
This Ministers, they see the problems, instead of solving them they point us the Public where the problem is, what must we do? come on do your work and stop talking too much, we need actionReport Abuse
Lehido
Ask Zuma, he'll tell you why......"APARTHEID"
Report Abuse
RobinH
Lehido: And if JZ says so it MUST be true, not so......Report Abuse
Blackstone.lebs
Mr Minister, get your house in order first before trying to regulate the private sector. Provinces are underspending on health projects annually, hospital revitalisation programmes progress at snail pace, staff morale in public health facilities is low...get these sorted and well start using public facilities.Report Abuse
Pointman
@RobinH Lehido: And if JZ says so it MUST be true, not so......------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Lehido was being sarcastic.
Report Abuse
Voetzek
Our health system is pathetic, i went to government infected by drop,istead of helping me they wanted to cut my Gozozo by doing opreation but i ran awayReport Abuse
The_Only_1
Motsoaledi said uncontrolled commercialisation was “consuming” health care in the country; and there will be Only_1 failure; the Patients. Mh! The Minister of basic education on the other hand she said she does not deliver books; when booksc were delayed in Limpopo! Motsoaledi your position gives you powers to take decisions that will benefits South Africans at large. Your starting point will be to do a benchmark study when it comes to Public Health Care system compared to Private Health Care system and make a price comparison for example of a price of Panado between the two health care systems. You will realise that in a Private Health Care system ; they are charging exorbitant amounts on medication which results in medical aid schemes increasing prices more than CPIX index. Then you will need to do a Root Cause Analyses or what is called Sensitivity Analyses, and these studies will tell you exactly where the problem is. As a Minister then you can recommend that a Bill be imposed as a controlling measure. So use your power which comes with skills and stop becoming a Media/TV Star!Report Abuse
MasheleJ
Like many other citizens I've personal experience of this health care shambles and so choose NOT to make use of the service anymore.Any complaints are dealt with are dealt with in a discouraging bureaucratic manner which requires the patient to make additional unaffordable long journeys to testify and, of course, the SA Health department and SA Medical council simply fail to respond to efforts to communicate.
An email to the Public Protector was dealt with in similar fashion - I was advised to write to the above-named institutions at their respective postal addresses because the electronic service is not functional!
And a similar issue exists in reporting criminal matters to the DOT&I and the SAPS.
The ANC won't receive any more support from me!!!!
Report Abuse
somaartakeit
moetswaledi or whatever your name is, please stop stating the obvious and tell us what your game plan as minister of health is!! don't be another black leader who is without a plan/strategy and goal to take NHS out of the morass the anc regime of incompetents has dunked it into, use your brains be innovative, come up with a business plan on how you will change the picture and table it to the public, so we can see how we can support your dept and help bring reverse, stop whinging we are about enough of this cause we also have our whinges come up with solution, be a leader that's what you are being paid for.Report Abuse
somaartakeit
@_SinudeityLBS - "In the good-old-bad-old days we never had, nor needed medical aid, we ALL used public hospitals and they were good.
What happened?"
Apartheid.
--------------------------------
ROTFLOL dude you're on apartheid rampage, lol
Report Abuse
sgubhusenkwishi
Honourable Mr Minister amongst your questions that you raised, you have indicated to us that you obviously know the answer, even if you opted to ask questions relevant which displays your fears of acting accordingly against the ills to solve the problem. The only thing that you lack is braviness in taking actions.Why spending more on health system with little outcome ? The answer is obvious, you are not spending on healthcare, you know that. You are spending a lot of money in the name of healthcare into the hands of the corrupted hyenas, very little or none is reaching the healthcare system with the objective and purpose to improve the lives and health of patients, hence the outcome that you see and complaining about is correct and a reality reflection to what you are actually spending on and is happening within the healthcare system. It is a fact as you have said already that patient is a loser. You cannt challenge the private healthcare , as the public healthcare at present is far away from matching the competition with private care. Public health care has lost the trust of the main public, due to poor reputation and the millions of victims who lost their lives in the hands of the poor perfoming public health, thus losing competition to private healthcare and giving it a chance to charge for medical care as much as they please, due to no competition.
Solution: 1. you have to overhaul the whole healthcare system.
2. Do away with tender system and get works department to do the job , under cctv. (close observation and supervision) without fear and favour in firing those who cant account for incompetence to their duties.
3.Re instate the hospitals management under superintendants( Doctors) with clinical experience to manage medically and take medically friendly decisions for the healthcare presenting needs, not the present hospital managers , who are clarkes by qualifications, hence concerns by managing money more than saving lives as health care anticipates.But medical manager who spends to manage life as a priority and account for money spent thereafter, is a dire need for the helpless ,patients. Not clarkes as hspt.mngers who ignorently bar life saving process to save money , whilst ignoring the lives imperativeness.Hence renders themselves as robots managers illrelevant to management anticipation in this life saving field.
4. Re incorporate nursing schools under hospitals , for nursing patient care experienced healthcare givers products of nurses who acts being inspired by ethics, conscious, scientific knowledge and art in saving lives , than privately trained care givers with theory and less patient care experience, whose acts are mostly guided by money chasing than set of anticipated care morals, hence less life accountability.
5.Last but not least healthcare public protecting organisations must actively be involved and felt , like SANC and SAMC in protecting the public against the ills driven by careerism, involving proffessional impersonators targetting healthcare proffessions and imposing life dangers to public for their ends meet.
4.
Report Abuse
KeRataBasadi
Minister you already know the answers to your questions, now pls get down to it.Report Abuse
Read all 37 comments