No one but NPA understands the logic used, it is madness and only serves to fuel anger not only over the massacre but also the violation of human rights from the time they were arrested including torture, being denied bail without just cause or being linked to any murder directly - not by association - and being denied proper medical care.
The ANC is really going to regret Marikana ever happened, come election time you will feel the backlash.
Indeed this is madness, the fact that they even use apartheid laws to charge the miners shows how desparate they are to nail the miners. Yet no policemen has been arrest for killing the miners. Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
Ntshwana
F*ck Showerhead and his cronies! Why are they still keeping the other miners in jail? Are they punishing them for staying alive unlike the poor 34 that perished? What is happening people???Tell me... Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
Papage
The police killed miners and yet miners are cherged for being the strike that contributed in their colegues being killed by police, so they are charged with murder, what a law! I so wish the state can 270 miners could get a good lawyer that will sue the state milions. It true madness, are we all mad? Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
LijahaSisu
Mr Minister Zuma told the NPA to, since all of you within the security cluster are just dwarfs (as Oom Goatee put it) around the d.icktator from Nkandlaville. The question you should be asking yourself is why you sold your soul to the d.evil? Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
RobinH
FOr once I have to agree with the motormouth. Strategically one of the more idiotic moves I can think of on the part of the NPA. Report Abuse
I think it is easy to understand their thinking and what the NPA is trying to achieve.
1. They have 280 murder suspects for the 10 deaths,
2. They don't know who is responsible for those deaths as the prosecutor admitted in court and they need grounds to keep the miners locked up without bail,
3. To do that they need a Schedule 1 charge which allows for incarceration without bail so they came up with this ridiculous charge.
A continued violation of human rights ... NGOs are going to have a field day and Radebe knows this.
Might not be Malema's fan but Zuma can't prove Malema wrong, shows what kind of president South Africa has. Always taking derogative, drastic, move in times of crisis to prove that his judgement is clouded by illeteracy . Zuma is always dancing to malema's tune in style. Are we realy prepared for this kind of leadership " i know what i am doing " whilst the crisis is escalating.
Can someone please remind me why Apartheid was thrown out, because it seems as though the repressive nature of the state is much the same or arguably worse. The colour-scheme has just changed ever so slightly. Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
januswanus
@Dzel, we are so much illiterate. You seem to know the supreme law, can you please explain it in detail. I do not know the Schedule 1 charge, blah blah blah, please enlighten us.
Personally I thought they wanted to keep them so that they can turn some into state witnesses as the process goes, but my heart on the other side was that if really we had a week of mourning, the NPA was suppose to get the details of the accused and then release them so that we mourn as a country and while we free. Thats what I was thinking will happen. Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
Papage
surely the corpse bodies had gun wounds not phanka scars, so who carried the guns? Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
Tasto
I thot so this is a deliberate strategy to confuse the whole process, the inquiry set up by government has even started yet we have ppl to blame, Vavi said Malema & Themba Godi, Mantashe spoke abt Capitalist that gave money to workers to form Union. Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
Mmmooohooo
If you had seen bodies of the two policemen killed by thugs-miners you will swallow your comments and shutup. I just feel for the state as judges will also vindicate the ANC-led goverment. While you are all targeting pres Zuma, he is protected by the ancsestors of the ANC. Going for 2nd term noma ka njani! Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
seutullamakunutu
Zuma has left this instruction before leaving for Botswana," i was not in the coutry when NPA made that decision" is the next excuse.
Apartheid was thrown out because of the same reasons we all know, however this is not helping the situation. Thanks now i can live where i can afford, not because of my skin colour . Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
Mothohalatlhwe
Papage
The police killed miners and yet miners are cherged for being the strike that contributed in their colegues being killed by police, so they are charged with murder, what a law! I so wish the state can 270 miners could get a good lawyer that will sue the state milions. It true madness, are we all mad?
******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
Dude you are confused AF.....The case concerned here is not about the 34 miners killed bu yhe cops, but the 8 miners 2 cops who were killed before the "Marikana massacre"
SAn criminal justice system is guided by common law, and we have the so called "doctrine of common purporse" that allows NPA to charge and try you for being tin the company of the ppl who committed a particular crime. In this case, an eg will be common incidence of the application of the rule is to impute criminal liability for assaulting a person with a knife, on all the participants to a riot who knew, or were reckless as to knowing, that one of their number had a knife and might use it, even when the imputed participants did not actually have knives themselves.
The Cops case is a different case and no one's been arrested as yet.
Tasto: EXACTLY!!! The ruling party is known for this strategy. Don't deal with the problem, just blame somebody else. Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
Mmmooohooo
People seem to be ill-informed of SA politics, they are driven by mere anger which they do not know where to take it off. JZ is here to stay beyond 2014, so be STRONG Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
We done Mr Radebe and whilst waiting for Mr Jiba all guys must be released then all officers who were at Marikane must be taken in custody whilst Mr Jiba's still preparing himself.
Radebe, what I want to know is, from the bullets fired that killed 35minners, can your forensic team fail to identify the officers who fired the shots and get them charged as well? Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
star88
Haai ke MADNESS indeed !!!! Hoooo, I can dzeal !!! Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
Papage
@ Mothohalatlhwe
Papage
The police killed miners and yet miners are cherged for being the strike that contributed in their colegues being killed by police, so they are charged with murder, what a law! I so wish the state can 270 miners could get a good lawyer that will sue the state milions. It true madness, are we all mad?
******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
Dude you are confused AF.....The case concerned here is not about the 34 miners killed bu yhe cops, but the 8 miners 2 cops who were killed before the "Marikana massacre"
SAn criminal justice system is guided by common law, and we have the so called "doctrine of common purporse" that allows NPA to charge and try you for being tin the company of the ppl who committed a particular crime. In this case, an eg will be common incidence of the application of the rule is to impute criminal liability for assaulting a person with a knife, on all the participants to a riot who knew, or were reckless as to knowing, that one of their number had a knife and might use it, even when the imputed participants did not actually have knives themselves.
The Cops case is a different case and no one's been arrested as yet.
You want to tell me that the miners killed their own? Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
M'Lungu
Eish! It is such a shame that politicians are now using this very sad thing which happened in Marikana as a preperation platform prior to the ANC leadership battle looming! Jeff Radebe with his artificial accent is also joining in the fray!What amazes me is that everyone seems to not have seen the policemen being fired at first! You can clearly see it (If you have any military training -of course!) the little dust clouds jumping up around the policemen was in fact live bullets - not just little dust storms!
And to make it worse - the NPA with their fanatical obsession in appointing politically correct people to top positions instead of the best experts and specialists, are also fighting a losing battle against crime in South Africa!
Ja nee dis 'n lekker groot k@kspul! Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
ProgressiveAfricanDemocrat
This is just madness!!! The Zuma administration certainly falling apart and the wheels coming off in the runup to Mangaung. First, they went beserk attacking democratic institutions and manning them with Jacob Zuma lackeys and supporters regardless of whether they are suitable candidates or not. And many of them are down and out by the way as they no longer enjoy the favour of Jacob Zuma or support for the president has waned. Willem Heath of the Special Investigation Unit is out. Menzi Simelane, National Director of Prosecutions out. Bheki Cele has also been kicked out. Is it not time perhaps to kick out Nomgcobo Jiba? yet, not so long ago President Jacob Zuma said "I know what I am doing". Marikana clearly shows that this old man does not know what he is doing. Time for change in Mangaung and have someone who will unite the ANC and not pander to factions while alienating skilled and competent people who do not agree with him. Otherwise our beloved country is in big trouble. Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
Papage
"KILL US, please abelungu," yelled a wounded, probably dying Marikana striking worker shot by the police last Thursday.
What about this Judge? who killed who? Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
ThirdEye
“Most people who are in hospital were shot at the back. The ones I saw in hospital had clear signs of being run over by the Nyalas,” he said.
“I never got to go to the mortuary, but most people who went there told me that they couldn’t recognise the faces of the dead” because they were so damaged either by bullets or from being driven over"
___________________________________________________________________
it says all.
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
We done Mr Radebe and whilst waiting for Mr Jiba all guys must be released then all officers who were at Marikane must be taken in custody whilst Mr Jiba's still preparing himself.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jiba is actually a woman not a man Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
RobinH
ThirdEye. With respect, there are very strict laws governing the privacy of bodies in mortuaries. There is NO WAY the general public would be allowed to go and and take a look around. Only bona-fide relatives would get to view a body. Someone is stretching a story to fit their own truth. Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
SharpSharp
I miss Gigolo..where are you to clarify this situation....Hope you are doing fine where ever you are..MISS YOU BABE Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
KeRataBasadi
I reckon jail is not the worst place the miners have been in. Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
Aijaman
I think it's high time we stop commenting in these blogs but to act. Guys I have read many articles concerning Marikana and the more I read the more I feel like going outside and start revolution.
We need to act before its too late...No point to wait for voting date and say we won't vote...Let's not be cowards!!!Revolution is needed now!!!
Blve me or not - The majority of the miners that were killed on that day is not the miners that we saw on T.V..Evidence in Rusternburg has shown!!!Explaination that has come across is even clearing the air about the1 dead body of a miner that cannot be identified bcos is badly damaged. Apparently the Nyala was running over people..Either alive or dead!!!plse guys visit this site and share information with others..http://dailymaverick.co.za/....Let us not be fooled!!!! Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
Msknowitall2
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
We done Mr Radebe and whilst waiting for Mr Jiba all guys must be released then all officers who were at Marikane must be taken in custody whilst Mr Jiba's still preparing himself.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jiba is actually a woman not a man
===========================
LOL.Didnt I say Mrs Jiba? Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
How could they let DA member to handle this case eish! Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
Msknowitall2
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
Msknowitall2
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
We done Mr Radebe and whilst waiting for Mr Jiba all guys must be released then all officers who were at Marikane must be taken in custody whilst Mr Jiba's still preparing himself.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jiba is actually a woman not a man
===========================
LOL.Didnt I say Mrs Jiba?
------------------------------------
Hahahaha.... No Sir, o rile Mr Jiba Report Abuse
@M'Lungu - 24 hrs eNews channel ran analysis from 3 different cameras - Aljezzera, eTV, Reuters !!
Suspicion the police on the far right seem panicked and those bullets hitting the ground were actually from their direction with probability even eTV said so - u could see the fast mother fcukers falling while shooting even though they were not in line of the suppose charging "impi".The police must reveal too secrecy here !!
So should the murders of the 10 people before the massacre occured not be investigated or people brought to book? Was it not these 10 murders that led to the police defending themselves in the first place or were the police supposed to let the mob stab and shoot them first??
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
You are pathetic indeed!! Tha DA judge. You should seek permission from someone with a brain before you speak. Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
Dzel
januswanus
@Dzel, we are so much illiterate. You seem to know the supreme law, can you please explain it in detail. I do not know the Schedule 1 charge, blah blah blah, please enlighten us.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I meant Schedule 6
The miners are charged under Criminal Procedures Act more specifically the following section:
Murder, when-
(a) it was planned or premeditated;
(d) the offence was committed by a person, group of persons or syndicate acting in the execution or furtherance of a common purpose or conspiracy.
Obviously they can’t argue premeditated murder but can charge them with common purpose but the NPA seems to miss the point that the group must have participated in the murder. A good example of this is mob justice where the group will participate in the beating up of the suspect who later dies of their injuries. Clearly in this instance it would be difficult to isolate the blow that cause the murder or murder a specific individual so you charge the group collective and they share culpability.
The charge is laughable because you have to directly contribute to the death so it is ridiculous to chare someone who was not even in the same vicinity as the victim, even when proximity was a factor you still have to prove the accused struck the deceased and participated in the assault. The NPA knows this which only leaves the possibility that they are going for this clause:
CRIMINAL PROCEDURE ACT SEC 60
60 (11) Notwithstanding any provision of this Act, where an accused is charged with an offence referred to-
(a) in Schedule 6, the court shall order that the accused be detained in custody until he or she is dealt with in accordance with the law, unless the accused, having been given a reasonable opportunity to do so, adduces evidence which satisfies the court that exceptional circumstances exist which in the interests of justice permit his or her release;
This is about keeping the miners in prison, nothing else.
Should read; or charge a specific individual so you charge the group collective and they share culpability Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
16-12-1838
Nevermind, discipline will be restored once the Ch1nese take over the mines! After all isn't that the ultimate master plan of the anc????
Nationalise mines, destr0y production for short-term personal gain and then sell off the assets at a fraction of c0st to the lowest bidder (aka Ch1na)...job done!
Ec0nomic free_dom...tick! Ha, ha, ha...wake up people! Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
Tasto
Hope cut&paste will suffice to drive what we have been saying all along :
De Vos said the decision represented "a flagrant abuse" of the criminal justice system.
"Unless what we saw on our TV screens never happened or unless the NPA is hiding shocking and bizarre conspiracy theory-type evidence from us.... there could be no possible valid reason for the NPA to have charged the miners with murder..." he said.
Ppl am I taking this too far, we are still waiting for the update on arms-deal, what about the EC education crisis, Limpompo text book delivery & now this seem to have shifted focus away from these mentioned problems add to that deliberate confusion - ppl these comrades studied political science be careful !! Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
Dzel
Tasto,
Not only an abuse of the justice system but a deliberate and systematic denial of basic human rights by the state; the move is criminal and unconstitutional.
Imagine if these miners were to launch a class action against the state. The abuses are so many the state will have to answer multiple counts of abuses, given the number of claimants damaged will run in the hundreds of millions which we as tax payers will have to pay once the dust has settled.
It is almost as if logic has gone out of the window and those in charge have all lost their minds.
Mark my words; we are going to see the biggest class action ever and government is going to lose the case.
It is so obvious what is going to happen it boggles the mind how those we have entrusted with power cannot figure out something as obvious as this.
@DA-DBN-GUY
So should the murders of the 10 people before the massacre occured not be investigated or people brought to book? Was it not these 10 murders that led to the police defending themselves in the first place or were the police supposed to let the mob stab and shoot them first??
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
You are pathetic indeed!! Tha DA judge. You should seek permission from someone with a brain before you speak.
==========================
May be I should seek from you clever boy neh!lo
THESE ANIMALS MUST GO TO JAIL!!!!
If they don't get chargered for what they did it is going to send shock waves through the country!
THEY MUST GO TO JAIL!!! Report Abuse
Aug 31, 2012
16-12-1838
@ Tasto
"a flagrant abuse" of the criminal justice system.
...I thought we had one of the best national constitutions on the planet, protecting basic human rights? There is nothing more basic than the right to life! This conspiracy and a certain 'Secrecy Bill' are just prime examples of dictatorial tendencies on the part of our useless govt. They serve only to highlight the corruption within the judicial system (old news anyway) and how ineffective our constution really is.
Oh how the once mighty anc has fallen, desperate times require desperate measures I suppose? Report Abuse
Sep 1, 2012
B_BIKO27
I don't see anything wrong with this charge infact another charge should be added.. conspiracy to commit murder hence they went to the hill with their pangas, spears and invisible muti for once I commend the corrupt NPA Report Abuse
Sep 1, 2012
southcross
The decision of charging miners for the murdering of their own colleagues is outraging and miserable because Zuma shall not belong to the Apartheid Times.
Horrifying atrocity has been shown in the massacre of Lonmin Mines in Marikana by BBC. It was seen in T.V. at the end of the shootings and in front of the many dead bodies, a white policemen, standing up by a jeep, waving his arm up with his fist up and closed. Did he do it as a sign of victory ? Revenge? Or what?
If there it is a confusion about who did what, both sides shall be under judgment and not only one which, by coincidence, is the more weak and less represented by strong global interests which Lonmine represents.
Those ones who have decided to charge the responsibility to workers, are a part and parcel of a the Neoliberal Agenda in South Africa and will be judged by History and by the South African people as Apartheid was, but maybe banking is more important than any judgement.
Yesterday a MG journalist said in the BBC that everybody was tired of working class violence and that public opinion was no longer in favor of those labor strikes. (unusual language for M & G)
First: why does this media divides working class and public opinion? One is a part of the other one, isn't ?
Second: As reported by the BBC, the mining company is paying workers 500 pounds per month. Is this a normal salary for such a risky work? Whom is violent with who?
We have learnt from Gramsci that Media has a strong influence in political decisions.
This drama opened widely the window to watch wisely to this political horizon where, for instance, Big Corporations of foreign countries threaten workers publicly through international media (BBC) to brake their strike and go back to work. Which is the role of Labor Unions in this democratic (dramatic) South Africa ?
We, in Argentina, have recently expropriated our oil company from a Spanish company Repsol. Current associations of political events in Latin America and those ones in Africa can give a hint to watch better each different approaches of parallel events: a brotherhood with same masters that have disturb the growth of our countries. Why somebody in South Africa or outside (in association with locals) is trampling on the patience of the working South African class that have already been waiting for the past 18 years to reach such a stage of discontent and misery? This country should be proud of their working class and recognize their needs.
The best politician will know how to drive this turmoil and will set up the real African Renaissance Agenda. It could take even more time but we have learnt to be patience.
Does corruption exists around this issued? if so, workers in Marikana are so far away of it, that I guess they deserve a holy recognition of Calvinist proud. The ones who charge them are closer to Rome, the Italian way.
By the way, on BBC "Hard Talk" I have heard a journalist making a question to the South African Ministry of Commerce and Trade, which I wish to quote: "Are you really a socialist (or communist) that will nationalize the natural resources of South Africa?" It sounds interesting the way the socialist concept was used by this British journalist, almost as a bad world. He might not be living in a shanty house.
Maybe is time for Steve Biko to wake up as hero and come back to start writing again and for the Government to do their best by nationalizing South African rich soil resources and by giving clever and better news than those about charging miners of killing their own brothers.
Two hegemonic ways of thinking and doing are struggling in the political and economical arena worldwide, Socialism and Neoliberalism. The later seems to be the South African choice therefore big corporations and banks will make it whereas poor indebted people will remain in their shanty houses. The decision out of which a special law taken from apartheid shelves allow governmental institutions to charge miners of the murder of their brothers will remain in people´s mind to understand that strikes and struggles for a social system of life for all is a priority, even though under an ANC government, unless they feel themselves represented in a government that protects them from the global violence against workers of this new phase of liberalism and freedom to screw whoever dares to stop the richest to become richer than ever before.
Juan Carlos.
If you go to the mountain with weapons looking for violent confrontation with the police,
and your friends get killed, YOU ARE JOINTLY RESPONSIBLE for their deaths.
Too long, far too long, do the people of this country act with impunity and don't think of consequences.
You want to be violent??? Violence will visit you my friend. Don't cry now.
This is what happens when an irresponsible leaders in an irresponsible organization keep fooling people that they can demand in an irresponsible way.
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Comments
Dzel
No one but NPA understands the logic used, it is madness and only serves to fuel anger not only over the massacre but also the violation of human rights from the time they were arrested including torture, being denied bail without just cause or being linked to any murder directly - not by association - and being denied proper medical care.The ANC is really going to regret Marikana ever happened, come election time you will feel the backlash.
Report Abuse
ThirdEye
Indeed this is madness, the fact that they even use apartheid laws to charge the miners shows how desparate they are to nail the miners. Yet no policemen has been arrest for killing the miners.Report Abuse
Ntshwana
F*ck Showerhead and his cronies! Why are they still keeping the other miners in jail? Are they punishing them for staying alive unlike the poor 34 that perished? What is happening people???Tell me...Report Abuse
Papage
The police killed miners and yet miners are cherged for being the strike that contributed in their colegues being killed by police, so they are charged with murder, what a law! I so wish the state can 270 miners could get a good lawyer that will sue the state milions. It true madness, are we all mad?Report Abuse
LijahaSisu
Mr Minister Zuma told the NPA to, since all of you within the security cluster are just dwarfs (as Oom Goatee put it) around the d.icktator from Nkandlaville. The question you should be asking yourself is why you sold your soul to the d.evil?Report Abuse
RobinH
FOr once I have to agree with the motormouth. Strategically one of the more idiotic moves I can think of on the part of the NPA.Report Abuse
MommaC
It really is madness.Report Abuse
SharpSharp
Malema in most of the time tells the truth, it is just that ppl dont want to hear anything from him...Aluta continueReport Abuse
lidodaduvha11
chicken come home to rostReport Abuse
Dzel
I think it is easy to understand their thinking and what the NPA is trying to achieve.1. They have 280 murder suspects for the 10 deaths,
2. They don't know who is responsible for those deaths as the prosecutor admitted in court and they need grounds to keep the miners locked up without bail,
3. To do that they need a Schedule 1 charge which allows for incarceration without bail so they came up with this ridiculous charge.
A continued violation of human rights ... NGOs are going to have a field day and Radebe knows this.
Report Abuse
seutullamakunutu
Might not be Malema's fan but Zuma can't prove Malema wrong, shows what kind of president South Africa has. Always taking derogative, drastic, move in times of crisis to prove that his judgement is clouded by illeteracy . Zuma is always dancing to malema's tune in style. Are we realy prepared for this kind of leadership " i know what i am doing " whilst the crisis is escalating.Report Abuse
RobinH
Can someone please remind me why Apartheid was thrown out, because it seems as though the repressive nature of the state is much the same or arguably worse. The colour-scheme has just changed ever so slightly.Report Abuse
januswanus
@Dzel, we are so much illiterate. You seem to know the supreme law, can you please explain it in detail. I do not know the Schedule 1 charge, blah blah blah, please enlighten us.Personally I thought they wanted to keep them so that they can turn some into state witnesses as the process goes, but my heart on the other side was that if really we had a week of mourning, the NPA was suppose to get the details of the accused and then release them so that we mourn as a country and while we free. Thats what I was thinking will happen.
Report Abuse
Papage
surely the corpse bodies had gun wounds not phanka scars, so who carried the guns?Report Abuse
Tasto
I thot so this is a deliberate strategy to confuse the whole process, the inquiry set up by government has even started yet we have ppl to blame, Vavi said Malema & Themba Godi, Mantashe spoke abt Capitalist that gave money to workers to form Union.Report Abuse
Mmmooohooo
If you had seen bodies of the two policemen killed by thugs-miners you will swallow your comments and shutup. I just feel for the state as judges will also vindicate the ANC-led goverment. While you are all targeting pres Zuma, he is protected by the ancsestors of the ANC. Going for 2nd term noma ka njani!Report Abuse
seutullamakunutu
Zuma has left this instruction before leaving for Botswana," i was not in the coutry when NPA made that decision" is the next excuse.Apartheid was thrown out because of the same reasons we all know, however this is not helping the situation. Thanks now i can live where i can afford, not because of my skin colour .
Report Abuse
Mothohalatlhwe
PapageThe police killed miners and yet miners are cherged for being the strike that contributed in their colegues being killed by police, so they are charged with murder, what a law! I so wish the state can 270 miners could get a good lawyer that will sue the state milions. It true madness, are we all mad?
******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
Dude you are confused AF.....The case concerned here is not about the 34 miners killed bu yhe cops, but the 8 miners 2 cops who were killed before the "Marikana massacre"
SAn criminal justice system is guided by common law, and we have the so called "doctrine of common purporse" that allows NPA to charge and try you for being tin the company of the ppl who committed a particular crime. In this case, an eg will be common incidence of the application of the rule is to impute criminal liability for assaulting a person with a knife, on all the participants to a riot who knew, or were reckless as to knowing, that one of their number had a knife and might use it, even when the imputed participants did not actually have knives themselves.
The Cops case is a different case and no one's been arrested as yet.
Report Abuse
RobinH
Tasto: EXACTLY!!! The ruling party is known for this strategy. Don't deal with the problem, just blame somebody else.Report Abuse
Mmmooohooo
People seem to be ill-informed of SA politics, they are driven by mere anger which they do not know where to take it off. JZ is here to stay beyond 2014, so be STRONGReport Abuse
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
We done Mr Radebe and whilst waiting for Mr Jiba all guys must be released then all officers who were at Marikane must be taken in custody whilst Mr Jiba's still preparing himself.Report Abuse
swona
Radebe, what I want to know is, from the bullets fired that killed 35minners, can your forensic team fail to identify the officers who fired the shots and get them charged as well?Report Abuse
star88
Haai ke MADNESS indeed !!!! Hoooo, I can dzeal !!!Report Abuse
Papage
@ MothohalatlhwePapage
The police killed miners and yet miners are cherged for being the strike that contributed in their colegues being killed by police, so they are charged with murder, what a law! I so wish the state can 270 miners could get a good lawyer that will sue the state milions. It true madness, are we all mad?
******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
Dude you are confused AF.....The case concerned here is not about the 34 miners killed bu yhe cops, but the 8 miners 2 cops who were killed before the "Marikana massacre"
SAn criminal justice system is guided by common law, and we have the so called "doctrine of common purporse" that allows NPA to charge and try you for being tin the company of the ppl who committed a particular crime. In this case, an eg will be common incidence of the application of the rule is to impute criminal liability for assaulting a person with a knife, on all the participants to a riot who knew, or were reckless as to knowing, that one of their number had a knife and might use it, even when the imputed participants did not actually have knives themselves.
The Cops case is a different case and no one's been arrested as yet.
You want to tell me that the miners killed their own?
Report Abuse
M'Lungu
Eish! It is such a shame that politicians are now using this very sad thing which happened in Marikana as a preperation platform prior to the ANC leadership battle looming! Jeff Radebe with his artificial accent is also joining in the fray!What amazes me is that everyone seems to not have seen the policemen being fired at first! You can clearly see it (If you have any military training -of course!) the little dust clouds jumping up around the policemen was in fact live bullets - not just little dust storms!And to make it worse - the NPA with their fanatical obsession in appointing politically correct people to top positions instead of the best experts and specialists, are also fighting a losing battle against crime in South Africa!
Ja nee dis 'n lekker groot k@kspul!
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ProgressiveAfricanDemocrat
This is just madness!!! The Zuma administration certainly falling apart and the wheels coming off in the runup to Mangaung. First, they went beserk attacking democratic institutions and manning them with Jacob Zuma lackeys and supporters regardless of whether they are suitable candidates or not. And many of them are down and out by the way as they no longer enjoy the favour of Jacob Zuma or support for the president has waned. Willem Heath of the Special Investigation Unit is out. Menzi Simelane, National Director of Prosecutions out. Bheki Cele has also been kicked out. Is it not time perhaps to kick out Nomgcobo Jiba? yet, not so long ago President Jacob Zuma said "I know what I am doing". Marikana clearly shows that this old man does not know what he is doing. Time for change in Mangaung and have someone who will unite the ANC and not pander to factions while alienating skilled and competent people who do not agree with him. Otherwise our beloved country is in big trouble.Report Abuse
Papage
"KILL US, please abelungu," yelled a wounded, probably dying Marikana striking worker shot by the police last Thursday.What about this Judge? who killed who?
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ThirdEye
“Most people who are in hospital were shot at the back. The ones I saw in hospital had clear signs of being run over by the Nyalas,” he said.“I never got to go to the mortuary, but most people who went there told me that they couldn’t recognise the faces of the dead” because they were so damaged either by bullets or from being driven over"
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it says all.
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Msknowitall2
KatakataEmaotoAditshepeWe done Mr Radebe and whilst waiting for Mr Jiba all guys must be released then all officers who were at Marikane must be taken in custody whilst Mr Jiba's still preparing himself.
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Jiba is actually a woman not a man
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RobinH
ThirdEye. With respect, there are very strict laws governing the privacy of bodies in mortuaries. There is NO WAY the general public would be allowed to go and and take a look around. Only bona-fide relatives would get to view a body. Someone is stretching a story to fit their own truth.Report Abuse
SharpSharp
I miss Gigolo..where are you to clarify this situation....Hope you are doing fine where ever you are..MISS YOU BABEReport Abuse
KeRataBasadi
I reckon jail is not the worst place the miners have been in.Report Abuse
Aijaman
I think it's high time we stop commenting in these blogs but to act. Guys I have read many articles concerning Marikana and the more I read the more I feel like going outside and start revolution.We need to act before its too late...No point to wait for voting date and say we won't vote...Let's not be cowards!!!Revolution is needed now!!!
Blve me or not - The majority of the miners that were killed on that day is not the miners that we saw on T.V..Evidence in Rusternburg has shown!!!Explaination that has come across is even clearing the air about the1 dead body of a miner that cannot be identified bcos is badly damaged. Apparently the Nyala was running over people..Either alive or dead!!!plse guys visit this site and share information with others..http://dailymaverick.co.za/....Let us not be fooled!!!!
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KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
Msknowitall2KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
We done Mr Radebe and whilst waiting for Mr Jiba all guys must be released then all officers who were at Marikane must be taken in custody whilst Mr Jiba's still preparing himself.
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Jiba is actually a woman not a man
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LOL.Didnt I say Mrs Jiba?
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KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
How could they let DA member to handle this case eish!Report Abuse
Msknowitall2
KatakataEmaotoAditshepeMsknowitall2
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
We done Mr Radebe and whilst waiting for Mr Jiba all guys must be released then all officers who were at Marikane must be taken in custody whilst Mr Jiba's still preparing himself.
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Jiba is actually a woman not a man
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LOL.Didnt I say Mrs Jiba?
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Hahahaha.... No Sir, o rile Mr Jiba
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RobinH
Kata: WHAT?????Report Abuse
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
@RobinHKata: WHAT?????
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That DA Judge man.
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RobinH
If you say so??????Report Abuse
Tasto
@M'Lungu - 24 hrs eNews channel ran analysis from 3 different cameras - Aljezzera, eTV, Reuters !!Suspicion the police on the far right seem panicked and those bullets hitting the ground were actually from their direction with probability even eTV said so - u could see the fast mother fcukers falling while shooting even though they were not in line of the suppose charging "impi".The police must reveal too secrecy here !!
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DA-DBN-GUY
So should the murders of the 10 people before the massacre occured not be investigated or people brought to book? Was it not these 10 murders that led to the police defending themselves in the first place or were the police supposed to let the mob stab and shoot them first??KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
You are pathetic indeed!! Tha DA judge. You should seek permission from someone with a brain before you speak.
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Dzel
januswanus@Dzel, we are so much illiterate. You seem to know the supreme law, can you please explain it in detail. I do not know the Schedule 1 charge, blah blah blah, please enlighten us.
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I meant Schedule 6
The miners are charged under Criminal Procedures Act more specifically the following section:
Murder, when-
(a) it was planned or premeditated;
(d) the offence was committed by a person, group of persons or syndicate acting in the execution or furtherance of a common purpose or conspiracy.
Obviously they can’t argue premeditated murder but can charge them with common purpose but the NPA seems to miss the point that the group must have participated in the murder. A good example of this is mob justice where the group will participate in the beating up of the suspect who later dies of their injuries. Clearly in this instance it would be difficult to isolate the blow that cause the murder or murder a specific individual so you charge the group collective and they share culpability.
The charge is laughable because you have to directly contribute to the death so it is ridiculous to chare someone who was not even in the same vicinity as the victim, even when proximity was a factor you still have to prove the accused struck the deceased and participated in the assault. The NPA knows this which only leaves the possibility that they are going for this clause:
CRIMINAL PROCEDURE ACT SEC 60
60 (11) Notwithstanding any provision of this Act, where an accused is charged with an offence referred to-
(a) in Schedule 6, the court shall order that the accused be detained in custody until he or she is dealt with in accordance with the law, unless the accused, having been given a reasonable opportunity to do so, adduces evidence which satisfies the court that exceptional circumstances exist which in the interests of justice permit his or her release;
This is about keeping the miners in prison, nothing else.
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Dzel
Should read; or charge a specific individual so you charge the group collective and they share culpabilityReport Abuse
16-12-1838
Nevermind, discipline will be restored once the Ch1nese take over the mines! After all isn't that the ultimate master plan of the anc????Nationalise mines, destr0y production for short-term personal gain and then sell off the assets at a fraction of c0st to the lowest bidder (aka Ch1na)...job done!
Ec0nomic free_dom...tick! Ha, ha, ha...wake up people!
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Tasto
Hope cut&paste will suffice to drive what we have been saying all along :De Vos said the decision represented "a flagrant abuse" of the criminal justice system.
"Unless what we saw on our TV screens never happened or unless the NPA is hiding shocking and bizarre conspiracy theory-type evidence from us.... there could be no possible valid reason for the NPA to have charged the miners with murder..." he said.
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Tasto
Ppl am I taking this too far, we are still waiting for the update on arms-deal, what about the EC education crisis, Limpompo text book delivery & now this seem to have shifted focus away from these mentioned problems add to that deliberate confusion - ppl these comrades studied political science be careful !!Report Abuse
Dzel
Tasto,Not only an abuse of the justice system but a deliberate and systematic denial of basic human rights by the state; the move is criminal and unconstitutional.
Imagine if these miners were to launch a class action against the state. The abuses are so many the state will have to answer multiple counts of abuses, given the number of claimants damaged will run in the hundreds of millions which we as tax payers will have to pay once the dust has settled.
It is almost as if logic has gone out of the window and those in charge have all lost their minds.
Mark my words; we are going to see the biggest class action ever and government is going to lose the case.
It is so obvious what is going to happen it boggles the mind how those we have entrusted with power cannot figure out something as obvious as this.
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KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
@DA-DBN-GUYSo should the murders of the 10 people before the massacre occured not be investigated or people brought to book? Was it not these 10 murders that led to the police defending themselves in the first place or were the police supposed to let the mob stab and shoot them first??
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
You are pathetic indeed!! Tha DA judge. You should seek permission from someone with a brain before you speak.
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May be I should seek from you clever boy neh!lo
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Moffdat
THESE ANIMALS MUST GO TO JAIL!!!!If they don't get chargered for what they did it is going to send shock waves through the country!
THEY MUST GO TO JAIL!!!
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16-12-1838
@ Tasto"a flagrant abuse" of the criminal justice system.
...I thought we had one of the best national constitutions on the planet, protecting basic human rights? There is nothing more basic than the right to life! This conspiracy and a certain 'Secrecy Bill' are just prime examples of dictatorial tendencies on the part of our useless govt. They serve only to highlight the corruption within the judicial system (old news anyway) and how ineffective our constution really is.
Oh how the once mighty anc has fallen, desperate times require desperate measures I suppose?
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B_BIKO27
I don't see anything wrong with this charge infact another charge should be added.. conspiracy to commit murder hence they went to the hill with their pangas, spears and invisible muti for once I commend the corrupt NPAReport Abuse
southcross
The decision of charging miners for the murdering of their own colleagues is outraging and miserable because Zuma shall not belong to the Apartheid Times.Horrifying atrocity has been shown in the massacre of Lonmin Mines in Marikana by BBC. It was seen in T.V. at the end of the shootings and in front of the many dead bodies, a white policemen, standing up by a jeep, waving his arm up with his fist up and closed. Did he do it as a sign of victory ? Revenge? Or what?
If there it is a confusion about who did what, both sides shall be under judgment and not only one which, by coincidence, is the more weak and less represented by strong global interests which Lonmine represents.
Those ones who have decided to charge the responsibility to workers, are a part and parcel of a the Neoliberal Agenda in South Africa and will be judged by History and by the South African people as Apartheid was, but maybe banking is more important than any judgement.
Yesterday a MG journalist said in the BBC that everybody was tired of working class violence and that public opinion was no longer in favor of those labor strikes. (unusual language for M & G)
First: why does this media divides working class and public opinion? One is a part of the other one, isn't ?
Second: As reported by the BBC, the mining company is paying workers 500 pounds per month. Is this a normal salary for such a risky work? Whom is violent with who?
We have learnt from Gramsci that Media has a strong influence in political decisions.
This drama opened widely the window to watch wisely to this political horizon where, for instance, Big Corporations of foreign countries threaten workers publicly through international media (BBC) to brake their strike and go back to work. Which is the role of Labor Unions in this democratic (dramatic) South Africa ?
We, in Argentina, have recently expropriated our oil company from a Spanish company Repsol. Current associations of political events in Latin America and those ones in Africa can give a hint to watch better each different approaches of parallel events: a brotherhood with same masters that have disturb the growth of our countries. Why somebody in South Africa or outside (in association with locals) is trampling on the patience of the working South African class that have already been waiting for the past 18 years to reach such a stage of discontent and misery? This country should be proud of their working class and recognize their needs.
The best politician will know how to drive this turmoil and will set up the real African Renaissance Agenda. It could take even more time but we have learnt to be patience.
Does corruption exists around this issued? if so, workers in Marikana are so far away of it, that I guess they deserve a holy recognition of Calvinist proud. The ones who charge them are closer to Rome, the Italian way.
By the way, on BBC "Hard Talk" I have heard a journalist making a question to the South African Ministry of Commerce and Trade, which I wish to quote: "Are you really a socialist (or communist) that will nationalize the natural resources of South Africa?" It sounds interesting the way the socialist concept was used by this British journalist, almost as a bad world. He might not be living in a shanty house.
Maybe is time for Steve Biko to wake up as hero and come back to start writing again and for the Government to do their best by nationalizing South African rich soil resources and by giving clever and better news than those about charging miners of killing their own brothers.
Two hegemonic ways of thinking and doing are struggling in the political and economical arena worldwide, Socialism and Neoliberalism. The later seems to be the South African choice therefore big corporations and banks will make it whereas poor indebted people will remain in their shanty houses. The decision out of which a special law taken from apartheid shelves allow governmental institutions to charge miners of the murder of their brothers will remain in people´s mind to understand that strikes and struggles for a social system of life for all is a priority, even though under an ANC government, unless they feel themselves represented in a government that protects them from the global violence against workers of this new phase of liberalism and freedom to screw whoever dares to stop the richest to become richer than ever before.
Juan Carlos.
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Blaklikeme
It is not madness it is perfectly logical.If you go to the mountain with weapons looking for violent confrontation with the police,
and your friends get killed, YOU ARE JOINTLY RESPONSIBLE for their deaths.
Too long, far too long, do the people of this country act with impunity and don't think of consequences.
You want to be violent??? Violence will visit you my friend. Don't cry now.
This is what happens when an irresponsible leaders in an irresponsible organization keep fooling people that they can demand in an irresponsible way.
Don't cry now blaks, don't cry now.
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