MAWARAWARA

this is unfair really now, so there is no case against the police. life is a b%&*$
Report Abuse

dik

When an armed Impi charges an armed standing force there is usually a deathly outcome.

However, charging the captured Impi with murder is ludicrous.
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RobinH

Ene though I do NOT support their cause, this is really completely ridiculous. These poor people have been mislead and manipulated to such an extent by cunning and unscrupulous people that they really must be utterly confused by now. Sure, there may be "legal precedent" but this charge is pure vindictiveness designed to draw attention away from really poor policing. How can the presiding official even entertain such a disproportionate charge?
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Sinudeity_

RobinH - And what if the dudes who were arrested and charged with murder, were part of the cunning and unscrupulous people who fired up the protestors?
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Kaylae

This is really not fair,Zuma come back from Botswana and fix this mess.Murd3r WHAT?so the police will be charged with WHAT? Assassination
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Mellow

Its not fair really well since they are up for murder are the police officers who shot at them also charged with murder?
Report Abuse

Vhamsanda

Miners charged with murder ?
Jeff Radebe and Nathi , did you hear this ?
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Lungu

Yes they should be charged but not for muder our government has run out of ideas, instead of blaming the real culprits (Lonmin ceo's earning R100m per ann, and the police for shotting) they blame poor and hungry citizens who were only fighting for what they believed was right though their mistake was to carry weapons during their strike. I would love to know who came up with this stupid decision of pushing the blame away from the intruders to the innocents, bravo to ANC criminals get away with crime and the innocents pay's for them.
Report Abuse

RobinH

Sin. Both you and I know that this is not the case. Not going there, thanks, as I don't feel like bickering just for the sake of it.
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mhlupheki

can we allow the law to take its cause. as far as i know theres a lot that we are going to know when the time goes on that we dont know.
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Dzel

Sowetan please be specific, which of the arrested face charges (is it all or a sub-section of the arrested miners)?

Did the police investigate and identify those that were responsible?

Which murders does the charges relate; cops, security guards, rival union members?

It is difficult to comment when an article is poorly written, no comment from police ...

Be that as it may I find it interesting that Zuma is still president of South Africa, Nathi Mthethwa still the minister and Phiyega still a Commissioner General. Those cops that slaughtered our people are still employed and have not been suspended, these are the people who should be held behind bars without bail instead the poor miners are being victimised, tortured and denied basic human rights like medicine.

Report Abuse

Sinudeity_

RobinH - "Both you and I know that this is not the case"

Not really. Merely going off speculation.
Report Abuse

MommaC

Has the NPA gone mad?
Yes, the two cops, two security guards and six miners who were brutally murdered must have justice but do it properly. This is just degenerating into a farce.
Report Abuse

MGEEZ

@All
Remember that prior to the unfortunate Thursday wherein 34 people were shot dead by the police; there was 10 deaths that were not investigated. It is therefore understandable why they would be charged with murder; however charging and proving the same are two different things; nevertheless 10 lives (including 2 police) were lost before the police involvement and this definitely has to be investigated and brought to its logical conclusion.
I do not think that we are in a position to tell the police or the state how to do their job, particularly considering that we would be the first one to criticise them if they did nothing!!!!
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THANDY

Wow, now our government is using apartheid law of common purpose to charge the miners , WHAT A SHAME ! THE MORE THINGS CHANGE THE MORE THEY REMAIN THE SAME !!
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cornelius

Oh my word, I cannot believe this. The idiot.s at the NPA have got it horribly wrong. Even in the doctrine of common purpose, there has to be intention to k.ill. How could these miners ever have had the inteniton to ki.ll their colleagues ?

The NPA are making SA a laughing stock agaiin and playing straight into the hands of the populist Malema, who will be seen as the hero wwhen the charges get dropped , as they inevitably must.

Cry the beloved banana republic.
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RobinH

Sin: Whatever.
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Lungu

@THANDY you can say that again and again, i still believe that the apartheid was bette. We have been let down and sold by ppl we believed in and they show no remorse is like those werstern african rebels who have no hearts killing and drinking our blood.
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piet

YEH,CHARGE THOSE BUSTERD,10 people they killed,what about their family. after thet they loose their jobs bcos of their babaric action,they are the examples to others.

there is no need to arm to teeth when striking. check what happen to PTA CBD just after that lonnim incident,people vandalize everything.

we have soo bad tendency of violent when we strike.

i still say,nothing wrong what police did,it was 50 50 situation.
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MommaC

Dzel

Geez, it is so clear now. We don't need ballistic experts or forensic teams, photography is all the qualifications that we need for crime investigation. We can throw away all that needless forensic equipment and those costly bullet trajectory mapping tools and just ask the nearest photographer what happened.

(I know for a fact that the path reports aren't out yet and that most of the injuries of those in hospital were to their legs)
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Voetzek

Police killed 30 Miners and miners killed two policemen then 30-2=28 the police must be charged for murdering 28 Miners (not sure about numbers)
Report Abuse

dimpho_4U

270 miners ,some including bread winners...now face murder charges that could result in life sentences..ABSURD!
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Dzel

One has to read other news sources to get the story, apparently the NPA hads charged the 270 or so arrested miners with 34 counts of murder. They are charged with the “planned and premeditated murder committed in furtherance of a common purpose”.

What???

Has this country gone mad?

you've got to love Malema's comments though; “Now they are turning and say they killed those people. That is madness. Even a drunkard can’t say that.”

Report Abuse

piet

@ voetsek


police killed 34

miners killed 10 including those 2 policemen, SO HORIFFIC VIDEO CLIP WEN MINERS HACK THOSE 2 POLICEMEN WITH PANGAS

those miners they wer feed by wrong info, HOW MUTI CAN STOP R5 bullet mara.people take chances.the Inyanga is the 1 to be charged for murder

@ DENZEL

bullets from the back, bru all not confirmed yet. but if you watched video clip that day,you can see the miners wer rilly charging at the police.bullets from the back mayb as they see R5 oozing real bullets than water they told by INYANGA
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Dzel

MommaC

Geez, it is so clear now. We don't need ballistic experts or forensic teams, photography is all the qualifications that we need for crime investigation. We can throw away all that needless forensic equipment and those costly bullet trajectory mapping tools and just ask the nearest photographer what happened.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You know your problem is you seem to type without processing what it is you are saying and always end up lost between your words. Earlier this week you are the one who was going on about eye-witness accounts and how these are necessary to understand what transpired; I have posted an eye witness account by someone who is used to covering conflicts, an award winning journalist with a Pulitzer prize to his credit and just because you don't like what he has to say you post a response that cannot be described as anything but stupid.

Of course normal investigations have to be conducted. Of course ballistic testing has to be conducted to identify which cop shot whom, you are stating the obvious. That this has to be done does not invalidate the journo's account nor does it put a gag on him nor I so I am swell within my rights to post the story.

Think MommaC, think!

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Lehido

I believe that those who k!lled the 2 policemen, 2 guards and those 10 miners before the whole fiasco should be charged BUT......they dont know who they are, they can't identify them and I dont think they can do it, murder commited by a group is hard to solve...they cant just assume that it's all those who got arrested, for all we know those who commited those murders might still be out,,,,,

So, this comes across as a witch hunt and utter incompetence on the side of the police.......

It's getting trickier and it wont end now.....Just like they cant charge the police individually, even if they do gun-ballasstic tests,..we all know they'll cove rit up until Jesus comes...

MARA why do we think if we get violent we can get what we want?..This is a kak mentality that brought us where we are today....
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letwadi

Guys, please get yourself a copy of the Daily Maverick or Mail & Guardian. There is more to this story than we are fed. We are made to believe that the miners killed the police, but not a mention is made of the police being the ones who shot first, before the infamous massacre. It really sad
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MommaC

Dzel

Have you ever read the eye witness accounts of a minor bumper bashing? They are all over the place. That is why the cops take a LOT of statements and then sift through them to find the common link. They don't just take Themba's view of what happened or that of some anonymous source. They look at the statements of ALL of the people and then tie it up to the physical evidence.

Lets just let the professionals do their jobs instead of taking as gospel the beliefs of one photographer who wasn't even there on the day and who has not had the luxury of seeing any of the evidence. The footage from the helicopter, the pathology reports, the ballistic reports, the trajectory reports ..... none of that is out yet. Lets not go into the realms of theology and try keeping it within the boundaries of science
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Tsatsatsa

Udoti wejudgement lona.....it was an instruction from the top to the Magistrate.
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Hosh6

So 270 miners face murder charges...that's crazy the trial will take longer than the boeremag's one...just hope they grant the miners free bail.
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Sinudeity_

RobinH - Whatever :P
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dimpho_4U

S.ad thing , no one is making an appeal or pardon against the poor miners..no one would dare do this against COSATU or yours truly Vavi comrades. I feel sorry and quite pitiful on how our country is turning out to be especially with this infamous massacre together with its international relations, how does a country __kill and imprisons with no mercy...
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MzimbaShaker

As much as we all do not like ZUMA as our president, but pointing fingers at hime every time whem something goes wrong is a very unfortunate situation. ZUMA has MPs MMCs and so forth this are the ppl who should shoulder the blames, and ZUMA should be crucified for not taking this ministers to task when things are not going well in the platform of their Job.

The MALEMA who sounds as a hero today, before he was expelled the miners were paid R4000 pm he never visited them and advice them on what to do. Today just bcoz there is blood involved he plays the Messiah just for his own benefit.

Lastly I think, the law is applying the Guerrilla tactics here, they want this miners to feel the maximum pain so that they can reveal who exactly is behind the who thing. Because ANC blvs that there is a third force on this issue.
Report Abuse

Dzel

piet

bullets from the back, bru all not confirmed yet. but if you watched video clip that day,you can see the miners wer rilly charging at the police.bullets from the back mayb as they see R5 oozing real bullets than water they told by INYANGA
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You need to look at the footage again but this time you must look at the positioning of the miners, the police, sequence of events to understand what really happened.

Police decided that morning they were going to disarm the protestors. Their strategy was to break them into smaller groups which would have been easier to control and disarm. The group that was said to have charged at the police were actually cornered and boxed in when all hell broke loose.

Look closely at the footage you will see there is a Casper behind the group, to their right was barbed wire, to their left a police Nyala so the only way open for them was forward towards the police frontline. Prior to them “charging” another group was moving away from the police, this is where the gunman who fired at police was, you here a shot from this group. Soon afterwards the
Casper behind the small group fires teargas at this group and throws a stunt grenade. Now the small group feels they are under attack and in self-preservation mode instinct tells them to run to safety as they were exposed. I have already explained the only way they could run was towards the front line so you see them running towards the police frontline in panic.

The police who were positioned in the frontline then open fire on this group with live ammunition. You here the white cop who was in charge shout cease fire but you also here other police shouting with one who sounded Indian shouting, “I am going to shoot you”. All that was retrieved from this group is a gun and sticks, how do you charge at police carrying sticks only I ask?

Interesting thing is this group only accounts for no more than 7 or so deaths, these are many others that are not accounted for in the footage; how did they die. As stated eye-witness accounts say many were hunted down and shot from the back. It took over an hour for paramedics to reach the crime scene, obviously saving lives was not a priority.

Watch events unfold from all cameras to understand exactly what happened:
youtube.com/watch?v=p5stk8klE1Q&feature=g-logo-xit

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Dzel

More information on how the rest of the miners died; miners telling their story.

http://dailymaverick.co.za/article/2012-08-30-the-murder-fields-of-marikana-the-cold-murder-fields-of-marikana

One of the striking miners caught up in the mayhem, let’s call him “Themba”, though his name is known to the Daily Maverick, recalled what he saw once he escaped the killing fields around Wonderkop.

“Most people then called for us to get off the mountain, and as we were coming down, the shooting began. Most people who were shot near the kraal were trying to get into the settlement; the blood we saw is theirs. We ran in the other direction, as it was impossible now to make it through the bullets.

“We ran until we got to the meeting spot and watched the incidents at the koppie. Two helicopters landed; soldiers and police surrounded the area. We never saw anyone coming out of the koppie.”

The soldiers he refers to were, in fact, part of the police task team dressed in camouflage uniforms, brought to the scene in a brown military vehicle. Asked about this, Themba said he believed people were hiding at the koppie, and police went in and killed them.

In the days after the shooting, Themba visited friends at the nearby mine hospital. “Most people who are in hospital were shot at the back. The ones I saw in hospital had clear signs of being run over by the Nyalas,” he said. “I never got to go to the mortuary, but most people who went there told me that they couldn’t recognise the faces of the dead (they were so damaged by either bullets or from being driven over).”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

According to MommaC we should not take Themba's word to gospel truth, fair enough, blacks lie right. Don't take his word but look at the pictures and where the dead bodies lay and then read accounts and see if they don't make sense.

By the way MommaC I was not referring to Themba's account but reports of what the post mortems indicate. Funny how these different accounts seem to be telling the same story. Look at the pictures and imagine where the shooter was standing given the confined space and tell me if the account does not make sense. Multiple eye-witnesses speak of soldiers with automatic rifles, two helicopters landing and that no one came out alive from the koppie.
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swona

I think its a fair charge, to the families of the 10people who also died doing their lawful duties, the act by these miners we inhuman and barbaric, and the excuse that they are not educated and they dont know between right and wrong, its sheer B*uLL!
Report Abuse

MommaC

Dzel

LOL
When in doubt haul out the race card.
That is pathetic and indicates that you have completely lost perspective and the ability to argue coherently.

THE POST MORTEM PATHOLOGY REPORTS ARE NOT OUT YET. Not even all the autopsies are completed.
Report Abuse

Dzel

MommaC
Dzel

LOL
When in doubt haul out the race card.
That is pathetic and indicates that you have completely lost perspective and the ability to argue coherently.

THE POST MORTEM PATHOLOGY REPORTS ARE NOT OUT YET. Not even all the autopsies are completed.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

‘Autopsies show miners were fleeing’

Post-mortem reports on miners shot by police at Marikana show that most of the men were hit from behind – an indication that they were shot while fleeing.

According to sources close to the investigation, national police commissioner General Riah Phiyega and her senior police officers in the SAPS were misled about events that led up to the Lonmin mine shooting at Marikana in North West.

A day after the massacre, Phiyega told the nation that she stood by the police and had issued an order to use live ammunition against the striking workers at the mine on August 16 because she had been told that the police had come under attack

iol.co.za/the-star/autopsies-show-miners-were-fleeing-1.1369861#.UEBq8sGm_MI
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I suggest you take it up with the journalist since you know it all, right.
Report Abuse

Dzel

Here is another account by academic Peter Alexander and his academic team, I like this one because it has a map that explain how the smaller group that were captured by international media being slaughter were separated from the larger group and why.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Strikers were surrounded by heavily armed police and soldiers, and killed while fleeing from gunfire. The state forces were not “protecting themselves”. They participated in well-organised, premeditated slaughter.
We interviewed surviving miners and looked at physical evidence on the site of the massacre. What we found is even more shocking than the story presented in the media, even here in South Africa. Follow numbered events on the map above.
1: On the day of the killing about 3,000 striking miners were gathered on and just below the “mountain” (actually a small hill). Joseph Mathunjwa, president of their union, the AMCU, came and pleaded with them to leave to avoid a police attack. The miners refused.
2: Within 15 minutes of Mathunjwa leaving, the police and army laid razor wire, separating the strikers from the Enkanini informal settlement, where many of them live. Casspirs (armoured cars), horses and water cannon moved up to encircle the workers.
3: Some workers walked down to the razor wire to see if they could still get out through a gap. Witnesses say police near the “small koppie” (hillock) opened fire on them, probably with rubber bullets.
Some workers fled through a five metre gap in the razor wire. They were met with a barrage of live fire from the police and many died. Images of this shooting were broadcast around the world.
4: Terrified strikers scattered in all directions, with a large number heading for cover by a koppie about 300 metres in the opposite direction from the wire. This “killing koppie” is where the largest number of strikers died.
No cameras recorded this slaughter. But evidence remained on Monday, four days after the massacre. There are remnants of pools of blood. Police markers show where corpses were removed. We found markers labelled with letters up to ‘J’.
5-8: Other strikers were killed as they fled across the fields. Some examples are marked on the map. Shots were fired from helicopters and some workers, heading for hillock, were crushed by Casspirs.
By Monday the whole area had been swept clean of rubber bullets, bullet casings and tear-gas canisters. We also saw patches of burned grass, which local workers claim are the remains of police fires used to obscure evidence of deaths.
socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=29403
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Please follow the link to see the map as it is very important in understanding the chronology of events.

Report Abuse

Dzel

Here is another account by academic Peter Alexander and his academic team, I like this one because it has a map that explain how the smaller group that were captured by international media being slaughter were separated from the larger group and why.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Strikers were surrounded by heavily armed police and soldiers, and killed while fleeing from gunfire. The state forces were not “protecting themselves”. They participated in well-organised, premeditated slaughter.

We interviewed surviving miners and looked at physical evidence on the site of the massacre. What we found is even more shocking than the story presented in the media, even here in South Africa. Follow numbered events on the map above.

1: On the day of the killing about 3,000 striking miners were gathered on and just below the “mountain” (actually a small hill). Joseph Mathunjwa, president of their union, the AMCU, came and pleaded with them to leave to avoid a police attack. The miners refused.

2: Within 15 minutes of Mathunjwa leaving, the police and army laid razor wire, separating the strikers from the Enkanini informal settlement, where many of them live. Casspirs (armoured cars), horses and water cannon moved up to encircle the workers.

3: Some workers walked down to the razor wire to see if they could still get out through a gap. Witnesses say police near the “small koppie” (hillock) opened fire on them, probably with rubber bullets.

Some workers fled through a five metre gap in the razor wire. They were met with a barrage of live fire from the police and many died. Images of this shooting were broadcast around the world.

4: Terrified strikers scattered in all directions, with a large number heading for cover by a koppie about 300 metres in the opposite direction from the wire. This “killing koppie” is where the largest number of strikers died.

No cameras recorded this slaughter. But evidence remained on Monday, four days after the massacre. There are remnants of pools of blood. Police markers show where corpses were removed. We found markers labelled with letters up to ‘J’.

5-8: Other strikers were killed as they fled across the fields. Some examples are marked on the map. Shots were fired from helicopters and some workers, heading for hillock, were crushed by Casspirs.

By Monday the whole area had been swept clean of rubber bullets, bullet casings and tear-gas canisters. We also saw patches of burned grass, which local workers claim are the remains of police fires used to obscure evidence of deaths.

socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=29403
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Please follow the link to see the map as it is very important in understanding the chronology of events.

Report Abuse

MommaC

Dzel

Yes dear. The journalists never get anything wrong, That is why they never change their stories the next day. I have no idea why we bother with courts of law. We should just let the papers do the convictions.

I don't know it all and YOU don't know it all. That is my whole point, Judge Dread.
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Tasto

At this rate I think its very soon gonna hear that the 1976 students who faced the police with rocks petrol-bombs & sticks are responsible for the deaths of 1976 riots !!
Report Abuse

DeOvi

Voetzek
Police killed 30 Miners and miners killed two policemen then 30-2=28 the police must be charged for murdering 28 Miners (not sure about numbers)
-----------------------------------------
police killed 32 miners and miners killed 2 police and 10 miniers....BTW 44 people were killed not 34....
Report Abuse

Dzel

MommaC,

We may not have a version of the story that gives a complete view of what happened but smaller fragmented version. That these are from different individuals is not as important as the fact that when you read the different accounts you can identify common features and corroborative evidence, you can then juxtapose these and a picture of what happened emerges.

The two helicopters mentioned by "Themba" are mentioned in this account, you see the position in the map of where they landed and it is the same koppie mentioned by Themba. You see photographs of where the dead were killed and suddenly it makes sense that the shooter was either standing over the body or shooting from an elevated position i.e. from a helicopter.

How do you shoot at someone from the helicopter, what is the crime that deserves a death penalty when our constitution that life is the most supreme of all rights?
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MobBim

I also watched the video seeing police butchering our own people like wild animals... at the present moment I don't care about freedom or democracy because is worse than apartheid... because during apartheid white will not fire gun to another white...there is no equality and justice I do symphathize with the family who losed their loved in this process.. Our government has failed in high degree they are protecting the interests of the western in the expense of the poor people..
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Tasto

Is Chris Hani guilty of the death of ppl who were shot @Bisho as he led them to defy the army and guns?


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2shy2call

Let them account for what they have done. If it was the police we would be making noise.
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Naked

MR P'RESIDENT if you are indeed a good leader who has the people's interests at heart,this is your time to prove to the nation that you are not as bad as most would like to think you are. Please save these poor men. They have suffered enough,their families are suffering, some of their colleagues are dead, some have medical conditions, havent they suffered enough? They are tramauatised but they are still charged with murder of their collegues? it doesnt make sense. Please MR P'RESIDENT Dont turn a blind eye on this. Do what you can to save our fellow brothers. All they ever wanted was a better salary to help sustain their families.Yes they did not go about it in the most civilised manner and they were probably misguided,but they have learnt their lessons. These are men who are not criminals,who work hard to take care of their families. There are dangerous criminals out there commiting dangerous crimes,rapin.g of kids and old women,killling of innocent people,why does the justice system not focus on the latter and leave these "well mannered citizens". Give them bail. Its said that some of them do not have access to their medication ARVs and all,can you imagine what it does to their health? There are rumours that the arrested might even lose their jobs? MR P'RESIDENT havent they suffered enough? Hear their pleas oh please MR P'RESIDENT.MOTLANTE,Sir,you are mute on this issue,some consider you as a suitable candidate to be the next President,PLEASE show us your leadership qualities by saving these poor souls.

SouthAfricans,let us all imagine what these men are going through. Imagine if that were your own son,brother ,boyfrend or husban.d. Imagine what their kids are feeling. FRRREE THE MINERS PLEASE!!! THEY DID NOTHING WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Dzel

MommaC

Yes dear. The journalists never get anything wrong, That is why they never change their stories the next day. I have no idea why we bother with courts of law. We should just let the papers do the convictions.

I don't know it all and YOU don't know it all. That is my whole point, Judge Dread.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So now we question the integrity of journalists?

That is why I am not relying on one account, I combining information from various sources to recreate what happened and based on common features I have reached my own conclusion.

Have a look at all the source I have posted and am going to post, perhaps then it will sink in what happened.

Funny thing though is you were not arguing that we should wait for the final report when you were holding on to this "they charged at police" nonsense we have been fed, I had to break it down for you. Then your word was good enough, it is the miners fault and they deserve to be killed in cold blood. When evidence to the contrary is piling up we now question the integrity of the multiple sources that are giving a different perspective so we have to wait for the report.

Really MommaC?
Report Abuse

Dzel

2shy2call

Let them account for what they have done. If it was the police we would be making noise.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What did they do exactly?
Report Abuse

Tasto

There is more than what meets the eye here, there is some evidence being suppressed by the police for what?These were political killings in broad daylite !!
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Nzule

Kangaman must go!

Report Abuse

MommaC

OH FFFFS THIS WORD NANNY IS GOING TO DRIVE ME NUTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sort yourselves out Sowetan !!!!!!!!!!
Report Abuse

MommaC

Dzel

So the cops are actually monsters who set the whole thing up as a sporting day out?
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KatakataEmaotoAditshepe

They're now protecting whites,the reason caused the death of those people is the empoyers.
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The-Vince

You know I’ve been following the story since it started, and I’ve checked the comments on some of the online papers....what I’ve noticed especially if you can go to iol news paper online, the majority of people who comment there it's white people, and you will be shocked by the comments you will see there.
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swona

yes police also needs to be charged with murder, and its easy to know who shot and killed at the minners, police guns have unique serrial numbers dont they?
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The-Vince

Every white person on that paper feels that, what was done to these miners was the right thing, and i fail to understand how can one who calls himself or herself a person with brains can think like that,
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Tasto

@The-Vince - don't stress its so like our in-house crackers like aboRobinH Sinuediy Rothschild and crew!!


P.S Just wondering what CredoMutwa said in the same week of the massacre abt ppl having set up black on black and now they gonna sit back and watch their plan !!

Report Abuse

Dzel

MommaC

So the cops are actually monsters who set the whole thing up as a sporting day out?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Right now the focus is on HOW, the WHY would have to be answered by those responsible but it does not make sense that one would shoot at protesters using live ammunition from a helicopter as if you are shooting wild animals. One can only conclude the intention was to kill, but WHY is the question unfortunately I am not the right person to answer that question.


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RobinH

Kata: Your racism is really just so absurd. SInce when is this issue about whites? Your discrimination is really affecting your thinking, if indeed it can even be called thinking.
Report Abuse

RobinH

TheVince: Your racist general assumption is disgusting and totally absurd.

Tasto. So friendly and reasonable so early. Good morning.
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online~Evangelist

1 cor 6:9
Dont you know the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom, dont be deceived Neither the sexually immoral, fornicators, homosexuals, thieves, those that practice witchcraft, the list is endless

Jesus came so that sinners may come to REPENTance, so TAKE a decision while you still have time, FOR it is appointed for one to die then face judgement Heb 9:27. Today is the day for thy salvation GET saved my friend because your sin wont absolve thee in eternity
Jesus is the Way The truth and The life no one goeth to the Father except through Him

The preacher has spoken

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The-Vince

I ask myself if the tables were turned, all the white people who say what was done to these miners was a right thing would they still feel the same, and knowing that your son, your husband, your dad, that sole bread winner who went out to fight for what was rightfully his gets killed in cold blood, were you still going to say they deserved it, am just asking.
Report Abuse

MommaC

Dzel

So you do, genuinely, feel that the cops set up a horrible version of a 'canned hunting' expedition. I suppose if that is your opinion of the HUMANS that make up our police service then no amount of evidence will ever change your mind anyhow.
Report Abuse

KatakataEmaotoAditshepe

@RobinH

Kata: Your racism is really just so absurd. SInce when is this issue about whites? Your discrimination is really affecting your thinking, if indeed it can even be called thinking.
================
With respect sir,how could the guys shoot their memebers and if the charges are not laid against the police officers the employer must be held responsible for the the death of those africans?


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The-Vince

RobinH
TheVince: Your racist general assumption is disgusting and totally absurd.

Tasto. So friendly and reasonable so early. Good morning
==========================================================
Thats what puzzles me right there RobinH, you are to quick to cry racisim, am talking about facts here bro, go to that paper and see for youself.... am not racist for your info, I work with white people, I socialise with them, I grew up playing with your kind not even a single day did I feel any form of hate torwads a white person.
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online~Evangelist

Wide is the gate that leads to damnation
( it has no restrictions, everyone is welcome, educated or uneducated, Rich and poor. IT IS WIDE there is freedom to all sin and all unrighteousness, No one gives peoper rules to it) BUT
The end of It is wailing and gnashing of teeth

YOU THAT TREAT THE GRACE AND MERCY OF GOD WITH DISGUST AND DISDAIN, Take heed for your time is short and unless you REPENT AND GET SAVED you will not escape the impending judgment upon sin

The preacher has spoken
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MommaC

The-Vince

Nobody has EVER said that what happened was 'right'. The argument has always been that it should not have gotten to the point where this could have happened. The time to have stopped this from turning into a bloodbath was BEFORE two groups of armed men were standing within spitting distance of each other.

Unless we want a re-run of this horror, we need to look at where it started to go wrong and make sure that it can NEVER happen again.
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The-Vince

Any way this aint about black or white, it's about human beings: husbands, brothers, sons, bread winners who were brutally murderd for fighting for what is rightfully theirs.
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Shaangrito

"Miners now face murder charges", what a load of bullsh*t. This is what you get when you place incompetent combrades on executive positions. While the poor miners are being unfairly charges the police "amaberete" gets away with mudering 34 miners. Our justice system is governed by clowns...
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MsKinkyakaKamaSutra

NPA says they will be charged under "common purpose", I cant understand the 10 that was ki.lled but the 38 k.illed by SAPS??? That is plain ridiculous........ waste of taxpayers' money chasing after spooks
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Tasto

what abt the mining bosses/house(s) that gave workers million rands to set up rival union to Num to weaken it probably?

Or is this smoking gun reserved for bargaining in boarddrooms for BEEEEE or ZEEEE or ChancellorHous deals ?
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RobinH

What's with Sowetan's over-eager class-prefects and the ridiculous deletion of completely unoffensive comments this morning? Because the "info-bill" is loosening up, do you feel the need for more all-encompassing "policing" up front?
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Dzel

MommaC

So you do, genuinely, feel that the cops set up a horrible version of a 'canned hunting' expedition. I suppose if that is your opinion of the HUMANS that make up our police service then no amount of evidence will ever change your mind anyhow.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I believe the evidence in front of me. You believed those miners ran towards the police thinking bullets would not harm them didn't you?

The problem with your actions is you bought the story hook line and sinker without reflection, yes those blacks are idiots you must have thought to yourself and even now when that version is being torn apart you still stubbornly support the police.

I have laid my cards on the table and explained my logic; it is time for you to explain why it is so hard for you to accept you probably misread the situation and the police are not as blameless as you thought based on the different accounts in the public domain. Why is it so hard for you to believe police deliberately shot at and killed people who posed no danger to them. Why is it so difficult to understand that the killing of the 2 cops may have had a bearing on the slaughter with many shot fleeing the police?

Please break down your logic for me so I understand your resistance.

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Garanteni

Dzel, I like the way you putting things into perspective, Mommac like being the know it all
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MommaC

Dzel

Blame the guy who killed the bunny.

Again with the bloody race card. Are you really so far out of reasoned arguments that you have to resort to hauling out and abusing the race card? That poor race card is as used and abused as a R5 prosttitute on a fishing trawler. Stop raping it.

Police are humans. They are not monsters. Police are also fathers, sons, providers and partners. Somehow you have this impression that the cops are sick murderous b@stards who will do absolutely anything to quench their bloodlust.

You have this vision where the cops sat around planning this for a few days, got up that morning with a spring in their step and deliberately set about shooting at innocent unarmed men who where simply sitting peacefully on a hill top smoking the peace pipe. I don't see that.
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The-Vince

I hear you #MommaC, but am talking about what i have been reading coming from a certain group o people, you hear things like no those bastards desrved it, it serves them right, thats what they wanted, good ridence, police had no choice but to, barbarians what did they think. Read on those news paper blogs and you will see


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online~Evangelist

Acts 17:30Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,

i plead with thee O'h sons of men, like these miners who met their fate in an unbecoming circumstance in a sudden way, so it will be with us ( if we dont have Jesus and our sins arent forgiven surely calamity is on our way)

The only way is to REPENT and Be Born again, Jesus is the only way to The Father. God is willing to help you o'h desperate sinner bound by the fetters of hell

The preacher has spoken


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RobinH

online-Evangelist: Don't you worry about us. We're South Africans. We're used to seeing calamity on a daily basis.
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Dzel

Evangalist,

Please stop flooding the forum with things you don't understand.

You will be asked questions you can't answer about your god so please respect my right not to be harassed with lies.

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Dzel

MommaC

Blame the guy who killed the bunny.

Again with the bloody race card. Are you really so far out of reasoned arguments that you have to resort to hauling out and abusing the race card? That poor race card is as used and abused as a R5 prosttitute on a fishing trawler. Stop raping it.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

But race was a factor in you decided who is to blame who isn't. Deny it all you like but from where I am sitting it is obvious.

And again who said anything about planning, I am merely explaining events as I understand them and evidence shows many were killed in cold blood running away from the police. what do you want me to say, they were running towards the police and turned around so they can frame police for their own deaths?

The problem seems to be you did not think through your position and now shifting around like Sin would, saying things for the sake of having the last word.

OK, have the last word if it turns you on; I think we've both said what needs to be said.

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online~Evangelist

i love God!
He convicts and we manifest our sinfulness
He will forgive "IF" we choose to REPENT of our sins

The preacher is astonished
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Dzel

online~Evangelist

i love God!
He convicts and we manifest our sinfulness
He will forgive "IF" we choose to REPENT of our sins
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Good for you. Now can you love god without imposing yourself on others and making a nuisance of yourself.

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MommaC

Dzel

There were not more than a handful of white cops and two of those didn't even take their weapons out. How can a bunch of black police shooting at a bunch of black strikers be a race issue?

As I said right in the beginning. Let us wait for the professionals to go through ALL the evidence and then we can decide who is to blame. I don't think the cops had much choice and you think they deliberately went out their way to kill people. Luckily it isn't up to us.
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Naked

Dzel
Evangalist,

Please stop flooding the forum with things you don't understand.

You will be asked questions you can't answer about your god so please respect my right not to be harassed with lies.

________________________
yOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO tell the preacher what to do. You have a CHOICE of not reading his comments. He is in no way abusing your so called right. Leave the Preacher alone.
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RobinH

Naked: With respect, it is offensive because of his inherent assumption that he is better than anyone else.
Report Abuse

Dzel

Naked

yOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO tell the preacher what to do. You have a CHOICE of not reading his comments. He is in no way abusing your so called right. Leave the Preacher alone.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Funny thing is when I dispel religion and explain why it is a farce and a fabrication you bible thumpers become uncomfortable and I am asked to respect your views. You on the other hand think it is your god given right to flood us with your drivel.

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Naked

RobinH - If its his assumption ,how is that offensive to you? I dont get it. You guys are just intimidated,you like being in the spotlight. He hasnt done anything to provoke or insult anyone here,leave The Preacher alone. This is not your blogg.
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RobinH

Naked: INTIMIDATED? By a religious fanatic? Don't make me laugh. But okay, I will leave him be, before you too lose the plot.
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Dzel

MommaC

As I said right in the beginning. Let us wait for the professionals to go through ALL the evidence and then we can decide who is to blame. I don't think the cops had much choice and you think they deliberately went out their way to kill people. Luckily it isn't up to us.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Don't you understand that the police:

1. boxed in the small group,

2. Created panic within the group, and

3. Shot them in cold blood when they reacted to that panic and the self-preservation instinct and then turn around claiming self-defense.

Which part do you need clarity on. Had you been as level headed as you now present yourself as you would have stated that we wait for the outcome of the investigation, it is only now that your initial assessment which required no evidence is being crushed that you are now Miss Objectivity and all of a sudden you need proof before you can comment.

Like I said you clearly have nothing new to present so this conversation is quickly becoming a waste of time though your hypocrisy is noted.

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Dzel

Naked

RobinH - If its his assumption ,how is that offensive to you? I dont get it. You guys are just intimidated,you like being in the spotlight. He hasnt done anything to provoke or insult anyone here,leave The Preacher alone. This is not your blogg.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Intimidated ... LOL .... you need perspective girl. Intimidated by someone who does not know what they are talking about ... right!

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Naked

@Dzel
Naked

yOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO tell the preacher what to do. You have a CHOICE of not reading his comments. He is in no way abusing your so called right. Leave the Preacher alone.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Funny thing is when I dispel religion and explain why it is a farce and a fabrication you bible thumpers become uncomfortable and I am asked to respect your views. You on the other hand think it is your god given right to flood us with your drivel.
________________________________________________________________
I am against you telling him to stop commenting. Is this your blogg? You dont have to read or believe what he preaches about.He is not holding a gu.n to your head mos - You have a CHOICE. IGNORE him if he irritates you.
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MobBim

@MommaC
I have doubt with your analysis.. it does not take blind man to see which sight are u taking... I take this as blind loyalty all we say watch the Video, You will see peole who was killed facing police was not the influence of muthi but casper with full of Police was chasing them, yes our own black african police was firing bullets to the miners... unfortunetely your propaganda wont fool everyboody at the moment we are fighting for equal justice and fair trial.. at this present moment I losed faith on our Politician, ANC is protecting the Police, DA is protecting in the interest of white investors and Poor are left mouning for their losed once....
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online~Evangelist

Thank You Sir!

The preacher apprecites Naked's shield.
Report Abuse

Naked

ROBINH and DZEL - Yes you are both intimidated. leave him alone,he wasnt even commenting on your discussions. You dont own this blogg. And wena Robin nothing wrong with his choice of religion.
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MommaC

Dzel

That is according to YOUR version of the TV series CSI. Now let us wait for the REAL experts to complete their findings.

The ballistics reports, the powder residue reports and various other reports have not even been concluded yet. The footage from the helicopters has not been released yet. Not all of the autopsies have been completed. The trajectory and timeline reports have not been finalised. You are proposing to hang draw and quarter the police that were there based only on conjecture. That is bad science
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THEFFIE1

agg wena shower head and Nathi, only miners are charged with murder while the police still walk free? is this the freedom we fought for... niyanyanyisa now staright. or mjaybe getting killed by guys with uniform isnt a murder neh? or maybe u wanna silent the miners? think again baba, coz now its gonna be 100 police dead m telling u shower head nd ur k*k Cardes.
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RobinH

Naked: With respect. I am not intimidated by any religion, which I why I choose not to embrace one. And for interest, just to keep your self-righteouness at bay, where do I indicate any feeling about his "choice of religion"? I couldn't care less what relgion anyone chooses, as long as they don't force it down my throat, or claim superiority on the grounds of their faith. Get perspective, Lady, and butt out.
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ILLUMINATED

Guess who's pushing apartheid laws and policies now!!! The common purpose doctrine is what the strikers were charged upon. 2012 - ANC showing its TRUE COLOURS. Go thata mo lefatsheng...especially if its your own brother pulling you down and trampling on you.
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online~Evangelist

i plead with you o'h souls,
The only way to the Father is Jesus. Dont let the pleasures of Sin deceive you in thinking you still have time to party and caress, only God controls time. WE dont know OUR time of departure. Dont harden your Heart when you hear the Truth, dont let religion give you false security. Sin is dangerous folks

John 3:16 God loved the world that He gave Jesus so that whoever believes in Him not perish BUT have eternal life_ the world through Jesus may be saved. There is an element of Choice there.
i implore you! CHOOSE JESUS.

The preacher has pleaded with oblivious lost souls
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Dzel

Naked

ROBINH and DZEL - Yes you are both intimidated. leave him alone,he wasnt even commenting on your discussions. You dont own this blogg. And wena Robin nothing wrong with his choice of religion.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Neither do you sis. Sowetan created this blog so people can comment on topical issue, not as a platform for overzealous and self-appointed preachers.

I will say what I want to say when I want to say. Religion is meant to control unassuming minds like yours and moderate behavior. It is a fabrication and you think you are enlightened but you aren't my sister.

If only you understood facts. If you don't like what I have to say you are equally welcome to ignore my posts but never assume you are in a position to tell me what to do and what not to do.


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Dzel

Naked, I suggest you look up the definition of intimidation cause clearly you don't understand what the word means.

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Naked

RobinH - WHATEVER
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RobinH

Naked. GOOD. Now butt out.
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online~Evangelist

O'h people of God. O'h poor miners! catapulted to eternity in sudden way, my heart is sobbing

I tell you, Oh' the living, that unless you repent. The rushing wind of sin will usher you in to eternity suddenly and all shall be of no value BUT salvation in the blood of Jesus
REPENT of thy sin and live for God in righteousness, for the common denominator (death) is lurking.

where will you be The moment you die?
Jesus is the way

The preacher has spoken
Report Abuse

Dzel

RobinH

I couldn't care less what relgion anyone chooses, as long as they don't force it down my throat, or claim superiority on the grounds of their faith. Get perspective, Lady, and butt out.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Funny how they think they are "born again" which assumes an elevated level of understanding which makes them superior and gives them the right to preach to others.

Experience tells me the born agains are the most ignorant of the lot.

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Naked

DZEL
If only you understood facts. If you don't like what I have to say you are equally welcome to ignore my posts but never assume you are in a position to tell me what to do and what not to do.
__________________________
Good. nawe dont tell The preacher what to do..


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RobinH

FACTS!!!??? Oh my.
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Naked

RobinH
Naked. GOOD. Now butt out\
____________________________
was that necessary,now you pushing me...
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Dzel

Naked

Good. nawe dont tell The preacher what to do..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Eintlik what is your problem, are you his spokesperson now. Which part of this forum was not created for overzealous bible thumpers don't you understand.

Go find yourself a religious forum and you can share your views with like-minded people, people who will not mind you imposing yourself on them.

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Naked

Dzel
Naked

Good. nawe dont tell The preacher what to do..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Eintlik what is your problem, are you his spokesperson now. Which part of this forum was not created for overzealous bible thumpers don't you understand.

Go find yourself a religious forum and you can share your views with like-minded people, people who will not mind you imposing yourself on them
______________________________________________
Im NOT going anywhere. Get used to it. THIS IS NOT YOUR FORUM!
Report Abuse

online~Evangelist

May God's grace abound towards all

Go into the weekend conscious of the fact that God has spoken to your soul pertaining to its state of lostness thereof, I insist on urging you to get saved through the blood of Jesus

The preacher has pleaded
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RobinH

Clearly it was, as it seems to have no effect.
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MommaC

Naked

So it is only YOUR forum?
Who died so they could elect you god of forums?
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Dzel

Naked

Im NOT going anywhere. Get used to it. THIS IS NOT YOUR FORUM!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

No it is not, but you will do well to understand what each forum is created for and what material should be posted in the different forums.

This is not a religious forum, do you understand this simple statement?

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Naked

MommaC
Naked

So it is only YOUR forum?
Who died so they could elect you god of forums?
___________________________________________
Stay out of it old lady!!!
Report Abuse

RobinH

dzel: Understanding can be a problem when there is one answer to everything.
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RobinH

Naked. Wow, such politeness.
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Dzel

Naked

Stay out of it old lady!!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++

Calm down little lady, take 5 minutes and walk around before posting again. We need to respect each others views and opinions.


just accept this is not a religious forum and that some of us mind being flooded with religious drivel and that there are forums for people like you, can you just respect that.

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Naked

Dzel:Robin and mommac - YOU DONT OWN THIS BLOGG

I AM NOT GOING ANYWHERE and noboby has a right to tell me what to do in here. Will comment as I see fit unless and until sowetan decides to block me,I AM NOT GOING ANYWHERE ..GET USED TO IT!!!
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ILLUMINATED

@Online~Evangelist

preach baba, I'm rallying behind you, don't worry about Dzel, I have already sorted him out before. I tried to further the debate with him regarding religion when I left him my email addy and he chickened out.

2 Timothy 4:2-5
004:002 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
004:003 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
004:004 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
004:005 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

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Dzel

Naked

Dzel:Robin and mommac - YOU DONT OWN THIS BLOGG
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

OK I get it, not my forum and you are not going anywhere. I have no problem with that so long as you understand the type of objective of a forum like this. Flooding the forum is offensive to some of us, can you just respect that.

Before you repeat yourself again, I get it; not my forum.

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RobinH

Oh dear me. They multiply.
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Naked

dzel - and can you RESPECT other people's choice of religion? can you do that without calling them "shallow". Can you do that simple thing? Can you accept that we are different in so many ways that we are bound to see things differently?

RobinH
Naked. Wow, such politeness.
__________________________
yah i know hey just giving back as much as much as im getting. She was polite when she called me a "god of forums"
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Dzel

ILLUMINATED

preach baba, I'm rallying behind you, don't worry about Dzel, I have already sorted him out before. I tried to further the debate with him regarding religion when I left him my email addy and he chickened out.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is getting out of hand, we have now completely moved away from the subject and are now discussing triviality.

Firstly I did not see your addy, apologies if you assumed my lack of response amounted to capitulation. Secondly stick to the forum on which the debate is held if you want attention and people to respond to you.

We can pick up the debate where we left off if you want, say whatever you wanted to say my brother.

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Naked

RobinH
Oh dear me. They multiply
__________
lol poor old man *sigh*
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online~Evangelist

Sir: ILLUMINATED

i am encouraged by your words
i however dont mean to sow divisions among fellow humans on the blogg, i am just speaking The Word of God. I however insist REPENTANCE IS THE WAY TO obtaining Grace of God

The preacher appreciates a fellow brother
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ILLUMINATED

@Dzel

Everything you said to MommaC is correct. MommaC can be gullible and read newspapers like Sowetan (agent of influence). Most people at Lonmin attest to the fact that SANDF was also there, shooting was indeed done from helicopters and caspirs did crush most of the victims. What was reported by SA media was a cover-up for SAPS and government. Even this article doesn't make any mention of the "common purpose law", but us who get news from other sources especially independent ones know OBJECTIVE TRUTH.
Report Abuse

RobinH

Illuminated: Objective truth? From the media? Is there even such a thing outside algebra?
Report Abuse

Dzel

Naked
dzel - and can you RESPECT other people's choice of religion? can you do that without calling them "shallow". Can you do that simple thing? Can you accept that we are different in so many ways that we are bound to see things differently?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Unassuming does not mean shallow sisi.

Be that as it may religion has been debunked from every possible angle and still you go on faith and faith alone. You have been provided facts, given earth history and how it evolved from a gaseous ball of fire to the habitable planet it is today. It has been explained how human evolved from homo sapiens and still you refuse to accept this.

It has been proven that key tenants of religion including the made up story of Moses and his chosen people, that archaeology proves accounts in the bible are fictitious, that accounts of Jesus are largely made up including his so-called death and that he did not die in the cross.

All these things have been explained at great lengths yet you still get it. I even explained how the bible was compiled, by whom, when and what the objective was and still you don't get it.

Faith is all you have and because of this faith you turn a blind eye to everything else; oh yes, you are very enlightened my sister. Well done.

Report Abuse

ONEE

Exactly what is going on with our political leaders??
All they are interested in is power struggle, wernt they suppose to stand together in unity finding solutions on how to help the families that lost their loved ones and bread winners, help find the solution for the Miners to be paid better than what they are getting.
At what stage will south african politicians stand together in one voice and fight abuse, corruption and descrimination?

all they do is fight like hungry kids for bread not even considering the society they are standing for.
We need to here that somebody is calling for the police too to be charged with murder of 32 miners.
we need to here of Lonmin Directors, Board members, Ceo's salary cuts that are ridiculous.

Yes what happened is not good and can not be ignored neither embraced , but what solution is it going to bring to charge all of them with murder?
What if another life is on the line due to this strike that seem not to be ending?


Justice system ahs failed South Africans a million times
department of labour is not doing enough to eradicate the ridiculous gap of salaries
Report Abuse

ILLUMINATED

@Dzel

I'm back to the topic, there's nothing wrong if we take a "religious break", thanx to having online~evangelist, just don't ridicule him.

@RobinH

I know that media feeds the masses with subjective info/truth, but my point was that, I don't base my arguments on certain news agencies but do a lot of extensive research particularly from independent sources. In the case of Marikana, I managed to get the side of the story from witnesses, and before the massacre was carried out,I had actually spoken to 2 people of what was transpiring at the hill (they could not take my calls earlier on due to rules at the koppie). So I make efforts to ensure that in the end I'm 100% sure that I have Objective truth. I just don't want to open another debate regarding objective vs. subjective truth as you will end up calling me a 'religious freak'.

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cox$pus

This is why the charges of murder will hold.

Firstly the security guards that were hacked and torched in the manner reminicent of the apartheid era were victimized by these striking miners. Secondly, the two police men killed were as a result of the action of these these miners. Now, the same miners began charging at the police wielding the same weapons that they used to hack their earlier victims and we all know what the result of this was.

Anyone who has a problem with the miners being charged with murder should at least google "the law of common purpose". From the pictures that depict what took place there, I could count more than ten pangas and seeing that people were hacked, the conclusion is that had they not been attacked by one group it would have been the other from the same circle.

Simple question:
What is your intention when charging a police officer with a dangerous waepon?

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MommaC

Naked

Or what?
You will invoke your holy powers of blogdom and smite me with a mouse?
Report Abuse

seutullamakunutu

@Couldn't agree more, as mad as taking a shower to prevent AIDS.
Report Abuse

Naked

MommaC
Naked

Or what?
You will invoke your holy powers of blogdom and smite me with a mouse?
____________________________________
.........geez wrinkled one - im way past the issue of religion..........go have a threesome with dzel and Robin or something!!! nxa!!
Report Abuse

RobinH

well good for you, Illuminated. Unfortunately it is not possible for the average citizen to raqce around all over the place getting multiple versions to compare. WHich is why one gleans what one can from as many media sources as possible, with no illusions that any of them will post THE WHOLE IMPARTIAL TRUTH, and then try and piece togather some coherent picture. Capacity for reason also helps a little.

MommaC: Nice one, "old lady"..... lol. Shame, poor girl.
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RobinH

naked, What does a good little fanatic like you know about threesomes? You may just get out of your depth here, Honey, some here can bite.
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MommaC

MobBim

Sorry, I didn't see your comment.

How do you know the Kasper is 'chasing them'?
After years of watching cricket, I can honestly say that the camera angle can distort your impression of distances between things.

My stance is simple. We don't have enough EVIDENCE to make a judgement on who was wrong and if anyone was wrong. Let us please just wait for the final analysis by professionals on this before we start a lynch mob on the cops
Report Abuse

MommaC

Naked

It is called 'projection'. What you see in the mirror is what you are, not what others are. Now I am dreadfully sorry that your skin isn't standing up well to Mother Nature. May I suggest a good sunscreen and a good dose of Epsom Salts.
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Naked

robin,you and your old girlfriend are starting to get to my nerves seriously!!!! go play with each other's wrinkled genit.als or something and leave me a lone...okay...thank you! nxa!
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Danielrjvvuren

Whats happening here? What I miss?
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MommaC

cox$pus

Don't see it.

There is no evidence to put THESE particular miners at the murder scene of days earlier. Even if it can be determined that the miners in question were (on the 16th) in possession of the weapons that were used to commit the murders, there is no concrete evidence that they were in possession of those weapons on the day that the murders were committed.

Unless they can find some folk to turn state witness or confirmed, indisputable evidence linking them to the crime, I don't see the prosecution being successful
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Danielrjvvuren

This entire debacle has been handled so poorly that every person involved should be jointly held accountable for their stupidity and role in this. One blunder to the next to the next. Can we not get someone level headed to just short all this rubbish out. It has gone on long enough.
Report Abuse

MommaC

Danielrjvvuren
Whats happening here? What I miss?

Well apparently we have some VERY well endowed and quite ingenious men on this site as Robin, Dzel and I are having a threesome. Over an area of about 1500km, that makes us very talented indeed. Of course the irony of the religious nutcase's brain automatically going to (what she would consider) sexual deviant behaviour, is completely lost on her. Oh the joys of a dirty mind in a religious zealot,
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Danielrjvvuren

MommaC

Wow guys uber penises! Or is it phone sex? Just watch out for hearing AIDS. Lol lame I know and then she throws the religion card too? Sodom and Gomorrah its a hypocrite we dealing with! Great show!

Naked
Can we make it a 4sim? Haven't had some action in some time?
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RobinH

Naked: And getting on your nerves is really going to worry me. You really are pathetic.
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RobinH

MommaC: Well, as Naked will remind us, with God anything is possible.
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Naked

MommaC and your boyfriend

you both understood me. my main issue was DZEL telling a fellow blogger what to say and what not to say like he owns this forum. I have since understood his side of argument and have respected that. Now you com in and raise the issue again.WTF is wrong with you? Are you some kind of a sh!t stirrer? Never in my comments did I claim to be a christian you automatically assumed I am. Unless you work for Sowetan just nje SHARRUP dont appoint yourself to be the forum master or something. I wasnt even talking directly to you and your bf. Its Dzel I was talking to...now vtsek take your wrinkled self off my way..
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Danielrjvvuren

Naked
I am the FORUM MASTER! Bow to may amazeballs-ness!!! No really I am short of a big deal around here... Watch as I post this cuss word:

CRAP!!!

See I am a forum GOD!
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online~Evangelist

Lets Pray

Father, In heaven. Here are your people whom you Love perfectly, I ask you would open their eyes that they may see things as they are. I pray your expose their hearts to thmselves so that they may REPENT and be heaven bound through the blood of Jesus.
I bind foolishness, sexual impure spirit, greed, Lie, and Violence. i ask you would permeate their hearts oh' My father that they see The Truth.

Let conviction of sin surround them till their departure on earth.
Let Jesus and REPENTANCE be forever with them as they continue to live on this doomed planet.
God, let your mercy and Grace surround them, just like you did to me and other BORN agains.

In The name of Jesus, i pray
AMEN_ Have a great weekend



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MommaC

Danielrjvvuren
RobinH

:) as childish as it is, irritating Naked is quite fun

I always love it when they throw the Sodom and Gomorrah around. A city that was destroyed because they wouldn't take the offer of a degenerate couple trying to pimp their daughters. Now that is some kind of example of logic.

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Naked

MommaC AND bf

lol now this is funny!! A simple thing has now turned the thread up side down. and whats this? The pale ones ganging up on me? Well newsflash!! I say bring it on motherfckers! Aint scared of Sh!t Stains like you..This aint your blogg, I ma show you how B!tchy I can be. Bring it on you garlic stinking super sized A holes!!! nxa!!!
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Danielrjvvuren

Naked

OOO Lequisha hold my earrings the ghetto is on us!
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Danielrjvvuren

MommaC
This is entertaining! Its like dinner and a show, and wait there is more... If you insult now you will receive this wonderful Nxa(!!!) absolutely free! Thats right a Nxa(!!!) valued at almost nothing for free! She is funny to mess with she is going into teef mode now look.
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Naked

misunderstood
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RobinH

Oh God, so she plays the race card> H AHA HA HA. What the hell as all this got to do with race?? Idiocy is amusing once the irritation ebbs.
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RobinH

Daniel: Do you reckon she'll dance as well. The dance of the 7 veils or whatever the biblical Salome did.
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Danielrjvvuren

RobinH
She might just do a little jig? O wait no... no no thats her idiocy convulsing...
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RobinH

he he
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Danielrjvvuren

Naked

Wipe your chin theres so thing on it....

No...

No... the other chin deary.
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RobinH

WHere's the entertainment gone. K@k service delivery, lady.
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Dzel

Naked
MommaC and your boyfriend

you both understood me. my main issue was DZEL telling a fellow blogger what to say and what not to say like he owns this forum. I have since understood his side of argument and have respected that.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thank you Naked, that is all you had to say.

Now can we stop the insults and move on.

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Dzel

Guys, enough now. Let's leave Naked alone ... please.

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Danielrjvvuren

Dzel
Yes Sir! Was fun but it must also end at some stage ne?
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Dzel

nxa, ne, you are learning Daniel.

Next week we'll start with the difficult words, you guys also need to learn our languages.

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RobinH

OK. Game's over. Agreed. Enough is enough.


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Danielrjvvuren

Dzel
Always wanted to learn Zulu, functional in dbn, but at this age? Ukzn is going to make it a first year subject for all. I really do not mind. They say people who can speak more than one language is good at multi lateral thinking and whats a third language? I can say I want to drink and little things like that, but want to be able to converse.
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RobinH

Battling along trying to learn Shona, my partner's language. And at going on 60 it's not so easy.
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P4T

Shem lokhu kuyadabukisa impela. Kwenzekani eMzansi?. Using apartheid tactics to solve each other's disputes? These things are opening up buried wounds of what some of us used to go through ngezikhathi ze apartheid. A big question is looming: vele sasilwela inkululeko enjani?
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Tasto

I don't remember in 1984-5 anyone being driven over by hippos or inyala armoured vehchles even the helicopter used to hoover over us while chasing students maar no shooting even with birdshots.Maar this current government even Voster&AndriesTreunitch must be turning in their graves !!
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Dzel

This is relevant to this thread so I'll re-post:

The miners are charged under Criminal Procedures Act more specifically the following section:

Murder, when-
(a) it was planned or premeditated;
(d) the offence was committed by a person, group of persons or syndicate acting in the execution or furtherance of a common purpose or conspiracy.

Obviously they can’t argue premeditated murder but can charge them with common purpose but the NPA seems to miss the point that the group must have participated in the murder. A good example of this is mob justice where the group will participate in the beating up of the suspect who later dies of their injuries. Clearly in this instance it would be difficult to isolate the blow that cause the murder or murder a specific individual so you charge the group collective and they share culpability.

The charge is laughable because you have to directly contribute to the death so it is ridiculous to chare someone who was not even in the same vicinity as the victim, even when proximity was a factor you still have to prove the accused struck the deceased and participated in the assault. The NPA knows this which only leaves the possibility that they are going for this clause:


CRIMINAL PROCEDURE ACT SEC 60

60 (11) Notwithstanding any provision of this Act, where an accused is charged with an offence referred to-

(a) in Schedule 6, the court shall order that the accused be detained in custody until he or she is dealt with in accordance with the law, unless the accused, having been given a reasonable opportunity to do so, adduces evidence which satisfies the court that exceptional circumstances exist which in the interests of justice permit his or her release;

The charges are about keeping the miner in prison, nothing else.

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Dzel

Danielrjvvuren

Always wanted to learn Zulu, functional in dbn, but at this age?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You can still learn, Zulu is not as difficult to learn as Sotho or Tsonga and Venda the last two being very challenging. Age should not be too much of a barrier.

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Tasto

Did I read it correctly a pensioner dating an illegal immigrant maid from Zimbabwe? Deaf can't speak in the dark u have to learn Shona? No harm to diasbled intended pardon my pen !!
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MobBim

Lekota was challenging the Government of Zuma for their neglegence for killing innocent miners unfortunetely our current government told him He must shut up. Malema also tried his best to help survivors to open case against the police unfortunetely people called him names says is scoring political votes while his fired by ANC... our current Political parties espeacially ANC and DA are acting like Democrate and Republican simply because they share the same mandate they are serving the intrest of the western... ZUma went to Botswana blindfolding people ... People believe it was business trip while they were talking with mine investors in Botswana, Botswana is on of the country that is stil colonized by Britain, Lonmin is owned by By British investors..
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