RobinH

WHat democracy? It's a myth!
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LeparaThePresident

“Should we have seen this coming? Yes and no,” said Steven Friedman, director of the Centre for the Study of Democracy at Rhodes University and the University of Johannesburg.
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Steven Friedman will always give you a dodgy answer.He reminds me of Eugene Nyathi and Adam Habib. Never a dull moment when they are interviewed. How do u answer Yes and No?
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babyfats

wareng nnare waboa kapa obatla hoboa.......... mxm mxm
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LeparaThePresident

@RobinH
WHat democracy? It's a myth!
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RobinH google this "The Smoke that Calls" one of my cybermail friend asked me to read it. It looks like interesting reading. He co-authored that with Professor Karl Holt from Wits(CVSR).




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ApelMankotsana

I have always listened to Steven Friedman's comments and he seems to be in the same class with one Mr.Masoga used by Capricorn FM. To be honest i do noy blame the poloce at all. It is incorrect for Steven Friedman to suggest that our police are not trained to deal with violent situation. How did expect the police to react in the circumstances. It is also incorrect for Steve to suggest that the violence was as a result of the death of collective bargaining in the mines. That is not true. South African labour force has been given enough powers to collectively bargain with their employers and employees still have bargaining councils, the CCMA and the Labour Courts to push their demands. They are even allowed to strike in terms of section 74 of the Labour Relations Act. Therefore it is incorrect to suggest that the violence is as a result of the death of bargaining. This is not true. We have so many peaceful marches by employees in this country and our labour laws and the constitution have legalised the collective bargaining...What happened yesterday is as a result of hooligans and criminals masquarading as employees.
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RobinH

lepara: will do. Thanks.
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Hail

I agree that someone should have been aware of the problem from the mine mangement until to the union not leaving the police out. When people are hungry they are more dangerous than ever! so someone was supposed to have done something to prevent this. This is a very sad day for this country.
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RobinH

Lepara. Looks interesting, Thanks. Will download and save, as I don't have time to concentrate on it right now. Thanks again.
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LeparaThePresident

@RobinH
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Ok rite am going toread over weekend. with my wisky on the on=ther hand. hahahahaha!
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ApelMankotsana

I dont understand why we should blame our police here. These bunch of 'possessed' hooligans were requested peacefully ths week to disperse and they refused. Still this week, they hacked two police officials and other miners who did not want to take part in their brainless protest. Yesterday as they were on top of the hill, they once again ignored peaceful calls from the police to disperse. Then without any amount of provocation, they quickly charged to the police like they were possessed by demons, broke the police barricade. Like a possessed devil, they attacked the police vehicle and still charged towards the police.. They were armed with stell rods, steel pipes, pamgas, machetes, baseball bats and all assortment of weapons still charging towards the police..The police started by using rubber bullest but the lunatics would still charged towards the police as if they are possesed...Now what do we expect teh police to do in the circumstances. Run away? NO.
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Punkies

"I'm not blaming the police but they are not being trained to deal with this violent situation"...training or no training, we live once. The police are also human being, i mean did you see how aggressive those hooligans were. Our police did follow protocol, they warned them the whole day & even tried using water kernels to dismiss the crowd but they would listen. They were going to ki&*ll them..did u see how aggressive those people looked..
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RobinH

Lepara. Exactly.
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OPZAZA

@ Babyfats

wareng nnare waboa kapa obatla hoboa.......... mxm mxm
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Kwakwakwakwakwakwa. I agree with u, this analyst is quite. Blah blah bla.
They always come after the demage is done and want to analyse, why didn't he analyse before the incident and warn that this was going to happen. Mxm!
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MommaC

More Ivory Tower analysis.

After what happened at Implats, the rivalry should have been under close police scrutiny. Unfortunately, the branch of the police which is supposed to keep an eye on things like this is so mired in back stabbing and politicking that they are worse than useless.

Excusing union bosses for sending people out to be slaughtered is just sad. They left the cops no alternative but to open fire. Poverty and economics don't excuse that
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Tasto

“This industry [mining] is an important industry, but it also comes with human costs. We need a little bit more sensitivity to how difficult this job is.”


Sensitivity also to senseless killings no matter what the cause!! Criminals enjoy better human right than these mine workers - Demoncrazy indeed !!

The police force is ill-trained as this has been hi-lited in mayny prevouis similar situation, its just lesson are not being learned.abt two weeks ago Nathi mthethwa said no more use of rubber bullets in dealing with service delivery protest because of human life loss from them maar live ammunition this surpasses even the Trojan-horse shootings !!
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Msikana

I write all coments from this morning and I saw on news yesterday, it really really pains to see those black brothers lying died some of you laughing. I was shot during apertheid, I told myself that it's ok I was doing it for democracy (Freedom for black people in their own country). Some of you just post crap here u don't how is the feeling to see died comrades infront of you, blood all over one's clothes!
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TankGirl

I truly do understand their circumstances, their hardship, their danger (My grandfather was a miner).
What I don’t get is senseless violence to get things done your way. People will never agree or help you then – NEVER! AND THEY SHOULDN’T! EVER!
For example. These miners are now highly dangerous and aggressive due to negotiations not going anywhere, their demands are not being met and no one is listening. Daily their lives are at danger and they feel they deserve more than R 4 000.
Ten people were killed last week. These tragic deaths this week.
You now get you increase you demanded. You are happy. People didn’t lose their lives in vain. You as a striker wins!
Some guy now realize but he needs more than R 12 000 per month (The human race ALWAYS needs more and EVERYONE can admit to that. The human race just never will be satisfied with just what they have).
So now next year they want R 24 000 increase (It worked the previous year).
How many lives will be lost then? How much more violent would you have to be to get R 24 000. It worked before so why not now. Where will it stop. Violence worked so just carry on.
There is better ways to deal with crap.
PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE “REWARDED” FOR VIOLENCE. EVER!!! And our history in South Africa is just proof of that!
And I am not saying they don't deserve an increase! What I am saying is if people become violent to get what they want (There is more than one way to skin a cat. Ghandi did it) they should be fired and no one should get an increase.
What I don't get about this country is that a criminals live is always worth more than ordinary citizens (And this was an illegal strike). Shouldn't good behavior and citizens rather be awarded?

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MommaC

TankGirl

My great-great-grandad was one of the people who started the unions in the mines. He must be spinning in his grave at what they have turned the union into. Gone are the days when it was about protecting the lives of miners. Now it is a mafia that is controlled by the union bosses
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DDK

DEMOCRACY... is that what you call it...SA will never know true democracy as long as its governed the way it is...
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skwamasamabele

Keep shooting messengers of living wage, JZ, and you'd be a statistic of History. If you keep on knocking on Devils's Door, one day someone is going to answer. Shooting workers is incitement to Workers Revolution. Learn the lessons of 1905 that led to 1917. Remember: WORKERS UNITED WILL NEVER BE DEFEATED!!!!!!!! You've been warned Msholozi
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Ndele01

In this country, when a thief breaks into your house, the first guy to be charged is the owner of the home.

In this country, when hundreds of people walk towards the police with dangerous spears, knob kieries, sticks and stones, then the first guys confronted when there is violence, is the police.

If the public want a police force to protect them, then they should be supported - otherwise they will all leave the force. Be thankfull of them - they did not strike. The Public should know that if they are naughty, they will be punished - but parents are not even applying that with their chilldren today.
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Ndele01

Why can Africa not fix itself ? (because it does not learn from history - it does the same thing over and over).

We can't blame colonialism for ever ! We need to take responsibility and see what didn't work yesterday and change it today.

We have been given a "platform" to vote for change(democracy), yet we choose violence ! (quality people prefer the vote - fools prefer violence where their children will grow up in a devastating environment).

The people voted for corruption, stealing, theft, roads and infrastructure deterioration, poor sewerage and water, services etc, etc, - and they will vote for it again come the next election. We must be the only country that votes for a political party and then tommorrow we strike against them ?

You will never see this "clinging" to a party in the "first world" if the government provides poor services. So don't expect a better live - this is what the people are asking for at every election - and they will do it again !

The world must think we are stupid - I do !
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Mame

Why did Zuma travel to Mozambique during this crisis. He should be home and show his leadership. Also politicians of all stripes should be coming together to call for peace and avoid further bloodshed. This country needs effective Leadership!
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Ndele01

@Mame

How can you find fault with Zuma - the people voted for him - they like him !

The people must realise that you do not necessarily have the skill to lead a country if you can dance on stage.

They should look for intellect in a leader. They choose Malema who did not even finish school !
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SenzoM

In ews articles, the police, Lonmin management, the unions are being fingered to take responsibility for this.

What about the workers themselves who were carrying guns, Spears, axes. When do they take responsibility for this mess.
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MasheleJ

@ ApelMankotsana

You appear to be reasonable, if misguided!

Please recall that the legal system has had to intervene many times in order to punish those unions who choose to use intimidation and vandalism instead of negotiations.

That said, the issues at Lonmin’s Marikana mine should never have escalated to the degree it did - this is the consequence of poor labour management practices by the Lonmin staff, political and union leaders [Vavi's keeping his head well down] and last but not least, the police.

Taken in context, the whole debacle is simply another manifestation of our country's disintegration and things are gonna get much worse before they improve. We're reverting to the apartheid style of government and I won't be surprised to see censorship appear soon.

There are no real alternatives to the ANC - even given their unfortunate role in maladministration and corruption so, to me, we require a government of national unity.

In other words, the most competent persons should co-operating in managing the affairs of our country, no matter what their political affilliation...


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jen_knight

The moral responsibility for this outcome rests squarely with the Board of Lonmin - who just don't want to pay the poor - the poor who live in squalor - more.

We have no doubt Lonmin can afford to pay its workers more. Workers who are reasonably paid do not strike; they slog on.

The current government has some responsibility too for not admonishing Lonmin's stingy selfishness.

The upshot is dead people and an opening for the callous opportunistic Malema to stir further bloodshed.

The Lonmin Board has made dismal decisions lacking in foresight or insight into social dynamics.

We call on the executives of Lonmin to be dismissed now.
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vusomujo

all those ginsaz deserve what they got.they were also killing themselves

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