Jul 5, 2012 | Hlengiwe Nhlabathi Political Reporter |
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commentsTHERE was a positive vibe when South Africans gathered in Kliptown, Soweto, to share ideas on how to create unity in the country since many delegates felt such dialogues were long overdue in a country characterised by racial undertones and intolerance.
Comments
SeshegoGuY
What a waste of Tax-payers' MoneyWe should've held a summit on Education at least
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DjEp
This Zuma is quick to act on language issue than billions of rands his Cde are pocketing dialy! i would have liked him to be in Limpopo making sure my kids gets books when they open nextweek than siting next to Zille in Kliptown. It doesnt matter Msholozi you are no good leader at all, you can forget my vote.Report Abuse
Neon
Ag shaim, what alot of bulldust. Thanks to Malema and Kwere Kwere Lamola this country is 10 steps back. The Anc cannot discipline it's members.Report Abuse
MicaParis
This is brilliant as far as engaging social and cultural diversionary issues surrounding our country and we need our Government to urgently resolve economic and social imbalances. Governments around the world face a number of challenges in meeting the changing expectations and needs of their citizens South Africa is not an exception to that general challenge. As a solution responses to these challenges typically include setting up and delivering service delivery reforms, fiscal management, seeking to operate more effectively, efficiently and openly and developing new capabilities for civil society participation, partnership and strict resource management. As a countries in transition South Africa still need to redefine the role of the state in economic activity by combining a single component of hardcore economic statute to solve the combined cluster of economic legislation we currently have without any clear direction. As a solution to this we must work towards greater social economic empowerment in multi-ethnic societies. A further challenge relates to improving the interaction between local, regional and national levels of government in order to ensure greater responsiveness, efficiency, transparency and participation. Our country face major challenges of fiscal resources and revenue mobilization, resource allocation to address poverty and achievement of the millennium development goals, embarrassing public financial and expenditure management, civil society participation and the fight against corruption!. A key responsibility of the executive council must be insurance of governance excellence in their departments to debate and resolve common problematic concerns but normally they respond by doing the opposite as they control the acceleration of corruption , how sad for our country! . Social transformation must be initiated to address governance issues surrounding governance reform, whole-of-government trends, collaborative working arrangements and strict financial and public monetary safeguard.Report Abuse
DJWinner
People are so racist and tribalist in this country. It will take more than just this simple talk to get people together. I mean, the majority of land and economy are still in the hands of white of males. Black people remain poor and whites contunue to get richer. This issue has to be addressed for a racial unity. As for a tribalism, people don't travel in South Africa. Sotho people don't go to Eastern Cape and KZN, while EC and KZN don't go to Sotho dominated provinces. So, people don't understand each other. There are people in KZN who still can't distinguish between a Sotho, Nigerian or Venda. To them, they all sound the same.Report Abuse
DjEp
@MicaParisGood morning to you Sis' but i must say i disagree with you big time. This is not where the President should waste his energy. There are strategic issues and departments which the President must inteverne personaly, eg books issue in Limpopo,half built RDP houses,the non ending Gauteng freeways improvement,etc.
I dont see what value does sitting in Kliptown adds axcept to wasting our hard earned cash unnecesarily.
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Neon
Sorry DJ winner it is not that simple to say that "blacks remain poor" and "whites get richer" For 18 years the Anc goverment as helped it's self to the pap pot too much,leaving nothing for the poor. Now all of a sudden they are waking up, and guess who gets the blame? the bad old whites again.Report Abuse
GODESS
LOL***no commentReport Abuse
januswanus
The electorate shot themselves in the foot simple. The apartheid government worked for the whites as we claim neh, why can't the current government work for the previously disadvantaged. Problem the corruption that is there and people not accounting for their evil deeds is what takes the majority of the down. If the membership of the ruling party is above the constitution of this country to the extent that it protects you from prosecution in case of your evil deeds then forget it. Change the tendering system where supplier determine prices than having government set market prices. You can have a billion Rands budget for the year yep but if you buy one memory sticker for R2500 each because the service provider quoted less then forget about service delivery. The chiefs must also stop putting their hands illegally in the cookie pots.Even if we say we need to understand each other that is just a dream because personally there are people I prefer to associate myself with not every Martha sick and paul. Otherwise create another circus of truth and reconciliation commission on economy. There is no way that people will take their livelihood and give it to others. Government must just commit itself. Stop the corruption. The limpopo education, health, etc problems is more than what it looks like as we suspect a Pedi cabal that tries to amass itself with wealth to fund itself for political power at a later stage with a with of one of them becoming a president. The tribalism claim the is just a way of crying victims as if the zulus at the moment consider themselves superior to create a diversion so we do nt focus on the core problems in that province. Just a cheap propaganda.
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DJWinner
NeonSorry DJ winner it is not that simple to say that "blacks remain poor" and "whites get richer" For 18 years the Anc goverment as helped it's self to the pap pot too much,leaving nothing for the poor. Now all of a sudden they are waking up, and guess who gets the blame? the bad old whites again.
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I don't disagree that ANC also has to take some blame because of its slowness, but the economy and land are the main issues here. As long as white people continue to refuse to share, these issues will not go away.
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MommaC
Politicians are so very clueless. They live in their little ivory towers and have absolutely no idea of what reality is.People will always divide by class. There is very little racism within class structures. Desperately poor white people and black people happily live along side each other and get on just fine. Middle class professionals of all colours happily socialise and work together. Crossing those social structures is near to impossible as the people from different class strata have no common ground. Try upping the education levels and the social structures will sort themselves out. Social engineering has been tried and has always failed.
The older generation still finds integration very difficult but (within the cities), very few of the younger generation have issues.
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Mellow
This is just another waste our taxes, what the hell have they been doing for the last bloody 18yrs they claim that it was all bout the 1st transition into democracy and we all know what Democracy means but noooo it has always been Gov. for them and their families and friends it has never been about the nation, talk bout leaders without any vision none whatsoever now we drowning as the nation poverty, unemployment, inequality yeah sure ppl are bound to be angry and fight each other, what's there to understand bout each other except that this stupid anc is trying to play us like fools fck damnation enough now. If only now after 18yrs they screaming 2nd transition and summit this and summit that makes me wonder how long we'll have to wait to actually say we are indeed FREE...ZUMA MUST JUST PACK AND GOReport Abuse
WakeUpSouthAfrica
DJWhiner - LOL, the biggest racist here, crying about other people being racist. Get the fark out :PReport Abuse
Mbeva
Oil and water do not mixReport Abuse
WakeUpSouthAfrica
DJWhiner - Black people combined have more money than white people combined in South Africa. Why dont the rich black people want to share :(Report Abuse
MommaC
DJWinnerHow much land is in the hands of white people and how much is in the hands of non-white people and how much is in the hands of the state?
We don't know because the land audit has been dragging on for ages and they won't release the information. Why? Could it be because they don't want to admit that the land issue is not an issue anymore?
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DJWinner
WakeUpSouthAfricaDJWhiner - LOL, the biggest racist here, crying about other people being racist. Get the fark out :P
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Truth hurts. Disagree with my statement instead of attacking me.
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DJWinner
WakeUpSouthAfricaDJWhiner - Black people combined have more money than white people combined in South Africa. Why dont the rich black people want to share :(
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Are you trying to be funny?
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
DJWinner - I disagree with your statement.Report Abuse
Lehido
The only way we can achieve unity is if the current crop of politicians fark off....All of them...From the little aspiring tenderpreneur in Limpopo to Zuma, Zille to Buthelezi....Almal van hulle..ANC COPE DA AZAPO IFP...ka o fela f000sekReport Abuse
SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerPeople are so racist and tribalist in this country. It will take more than just this simple talk to get people together. I mean, the majority of land and economy are still in the hands of white of males. Black people remain poor and whites contunue to get richer.
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I will agree with you on the economy, we need black people who is leaders and also entrepreneurship. To get economic freedom takes hard work and does not come over night, it has been 18 years and there are many very rich black people because they worked hard. Then there is the black people who gives black people a bad name by teder fraud and also with the failed BEE policy of the anc. This only gives money to some few black people and not to those who work hard and honest trying to get tenders.
On the land, I cannot comment, not even the government or the anc top dawgs know how many land belongs to who. So that one I will stay away from.
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
DJWinner - Yeah I am. Facts are facts bru. Combined black wealth is greater than the combined white wealth. So, instead of harping on about whites (who pay half of their earnings to the state every month), to 'share wealth'... why dont you ask your black brothers driving around in their audi's and beamers, living in Sandton to share wealth.Report Abuse
DJWinner
MommaCDJWinner
How much land is in the hands of white people and how much is in the hands of non-white people and how much is in the hands of the state?
We don't know because the land audit has been dragging on for ages and they won't release the information. Why? Could it be because they don't want to admit that the land issue is not an issue anymore?
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You see, it is exactly this kind of comments that are not helping in uniting this country. When people are still in a state of denial, then there is no way these issues will be addressed.
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januswanus
Blah blah blah land and economy issue. Wake up how many mines do we have in the rural areas of limpopo and North West and why those mines are not doing any csi Programmes? Isn't because our politicians put them in a tight corner to benefit instead of those mines helping the masses around there because the politicians can control you.Report Abuse
MommaC
DJWinnerDon't quote rivers in Egypt. Answer the question.
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
DJWinner - I think people with no understanding, and merely just spreading propaganda on the forums, are the reasons for us not being united. That and silly little COSATU and youth league leaders sprouting racist bull$h1t all over the place.Whites own 90% of the land right?
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DJWinner
WakeUpSouthAfricaDJWinner - Yeah I am. Facts are facts bru. Combined black wealth is greater than the combined white wealth. So, instead of harping on about whites (who pay half of their earnings to the state every month), to 'share wealth'... why dont you ask your black brothers driving around in their audi's and beamers, living in Sandton to share wealth.
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How much percentage of population is white people making in this country?
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NomdeGuerre
@DJWinnerEven if white people where to give away every cent they had it would still not be enough. The ony way to create economic freedom is through quality education. People need skills that are sought in the work place not worthless matrics and BA's. This is governments single biggest failure they keep lowering education standards not improving them, the text book scandal is just the latest in this messup.
Black people also need to take responsibility for themselves. My company has offered to pay for further education for any staff member that wants it. Most of the white and Indian staff have taken the opportunity not a single black person out of 30 has done even one course. My domestic worker has at least started studying childhood education. So 1 out of 30 black people given the oppertunity to improve their lives has taken it.
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DJWinner
MommaCDJWinner
Don't quote rivers in Egypt. Answer the question.
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Well, you are in a state of denial. That is why I say you are not helping.
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MommaC
DJWinnerIn other words you CAN'T answer the question. Your only fall back is fairy stories
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Tikoloshe
"Languages must be treated as equal and we must afford them the necessary respect,..."
People who speak a specific language are the custodians of their language and they need to promote and nurture the continuity thereof with the assistance of the academic community....
Unfortunately English is a universal language....it's needn't be forced on you but if you're not familiar with it you will be disadvantaged in the world environment,..... so it should be encouraged through all communities in the country.
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DJWinner
NomdeGuerre@DJWinner
Even if white people where to give away every cent they had it would still not be enough. The ony way to create economic freedom is through quality education. People need skills that are sought in the work place not worthless matrics and BA's. This is governments single biggest failure they keep lowering education standards not improving them, the text book scandal is just the latest in this messup.
Black people also need to take responsibility for themselves. My company has offered to pay for further education for any staff member that wants it. Most of the white and Indian staff have taken the opportunity not a single black person out of 30 has done even one course. My domestic worker has at least started studying childhood education. So 1 out of 30 black people given the oppertunity to improve their lives has taken it.
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I don't disagree with that, but we cannot shy away from the point of inequality in this country. People will never unite when there is still such a big gap between them. I'm not saying that people must give everything away, but I say people must share.
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerYou see, it is exactly this kind of comments that are not helping in uniting this country. When people are still in a state of denial, then there is no way these issues will be addressed.
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Brilliant comment, I wonder who is in the state of DENIAL and if addressing are still necessary? or is this another way of the anc keeping our people voting for them.
Interesting
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1937
If Dr Irvin Khoza of Orlando Pirates was there, then I'll deem this even a huge success.Report Abuse
DJWinner
MommaCDJWinner
In other words you CAN'T answer the question. Your only fall back is fairy stories
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I still maintain my point that it doesn't help to sit here all day and deny things. We will never find solutions this way.
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malemaforpresident
THE ANC IS COMFUSEDReport Abuse
Papage
people can pretent big time, they look united until they go separate roads and you will hear them back talking. What message are our Leaders giving usReport Abuse
Neon
Dj, I understand the issue of economy and land. the land issue is really a problem, because unfortuanately the majority of farm that have been given to black farmers are in a mess, and not productive. - I blame goverment for that. We should have started with the training of black farmers 18 years ago, but that never happend. The goverment kept on "governing" and the farmers "farmed" Now all of a sudden the goverment want to "quick" "quick" restore land issues without taking the consequences into account. Once again the goverment is pushing all the blame to the farming community.Further, the economy. The word "economy" is very vague. Goverment needs to pin point "where" in the economy is change needed. Just to "put" alot of black faces in companies and now we are all happy is not going to work. It is a sad fact that we have seen this in Government offices, and municipality. We have lost a lot of skilled white people over the years just because there must be "black faces" They were replaced with people that did not have the skills, "post" were created for each and every department - my god I think that our municipalities and government has probably the most senior posts in the world when it comes to directors, and heads.
Because we have a huge "back logg" in black education concerning skilled posts, not just in government but also in the private sector - engineers, pilots, scientific fields, IT, and a lot more, the government has failed us. We still have alot of potential out there among young black kids but when will they be reached? When will our government stop looking after themselves? Nepotism, favouritism and corruption is rife in govermnet depts. and municipalities.
Nowe after 18 years the ANC want to rectify this once again "quick" "quick" without taking REAL accountability for their failures. I can understand in a way way whites are not very keen on the anc's plan regarding the economy and land, because unfortuanately the Anc has no good track record. Most of the ANC municipalities are in trouble, A whole province (Limpopo) is bankrupt, and so the list goes on.
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DJWinner
SOLUTIONSDJWinner
You see, it is exactly this kind of comments that are not helping in uniting this country. When people are still in a state of denial, then there is no way these issues will be addressed.
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Brilliant comment, I wonder who is in the state of DENIAL and if addressing are still necessary? or is this another way of the anc keeping our people voting for them.
Interesting
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People deny that the majority of land and economy is still in the hands of white males.
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MommaC
DJWinnerSaying that it is 'denial' is like saying it is 'purple'. Bring FACTS
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BokFan
@DJWinner"I don't disagree that ANC also has to take some blame because of its slowness, but the economy and land are the main issues here. As long as white people continue to refuse to share, these issues will not go away."
What is your suggestion for this sharing process you speak of?
Must white homeowners give a corner of their plot to a black person. Or the whole plot?
Must a white business owner give shares to someone with a black skin? Or all the shares?
Should white employees pay more tax than black employees.?
My problem with the youth league type thinking isn't about nationalisation or land redistribution. Its the fact that they can never explain how the transfer of these things from where they are now held will benefit anyone. Maybe you can spell it out to me.
Thanks in anticipation
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerPeople deny that the majority of land and economy is still in the hands of white males.
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Combined black wealth is more than the combined white wealth, please supply your sources where we can see how much land belongs to state, to whites and to blacks, it should be interesting reading.
Thank you.
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DJWinner
@Neon...One thing that I like about your comment is that you don't deny these things. It is a good start in the right direction.Report Abuse
NomdeGuerre
@DJWinnerThe problem is white people are already sharing. My company is taxed, I am taxed, I pay extra tax every time I buy something or fill up with fuel. There are skills developement levies, this levy that levy. It has been worked out that at the end of the day around 60 - 70% of middle to upperclass income ends up with the government one way or another. That means I am already giving more than the gorvenment more than half of what I earn (excluding any charities I support) it is their responsibilty to use it wisely to uplift the people that require it and not waste it on parties, fancy cars and jet planes.
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DJWinner
SOLUTIONSDJWinner
People deny that the majority of land and economy is still in the hands of white males.
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Combined black wealth is more than the combined white wealth, please supply your sources where we can see how much land belongs to state, to whites and to blacks, it should be interesting reading.
Thank you.
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Look at the percentages of population. For example, you have 1 million black people each own R2, then you have 2 white people each own R500 000. So, you see?
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BokFan
Howdy MC The Sowetan comments page reminds me of the good ole days on the Times.This one is just a lot funnier. (I mean that in a good way :D)
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
DJWinner - "People will never unite when there is still such a big gap between them. I'm not saying that people must give everything away, but I say people must share."The black middle class is now bigger than the entire white population. Are you saying that the black middle class and the poor cannot unite?
Dude, your natural hate for white people is confusing you to all the real issues in South Africa./
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DJWinner
@NomdeGuerre....Your comments are not helping towards reconciliation, sorry.Report Abuse
WakeUpSouthAfrica
DJWinner - We will NEVer be united if folks like you keep spewing anti-white propaganda.Report Abuse
Nwanawamukalaha
If someone may ask, what is social cohesion, what would the answer be looking at the social disparity brought forward from the oppression period which still exist and escalating? Also, taking into consideration that the b!ack man (ANC government) is failing to address this disparity by embracing the minority while we are slipping deep into b!ack on b!ack system of imbalance while the wh!te minority are kept beneficiaries of the economy in large.Only leaders of ANC and their families are reaping the rewards of political and economic freedom while they are serving the wh!te masters indirectly.
Children in Eastern Cape and Limpopo Provinces don't have books and the sense of urgency given to this k@k "social cohesion" is never a sign of undermining b!acks by the likes of Paul Mashatile and "PeanutHead" Zuma. Why are they emphasising on this cohesion thing while it's not prevalent around the men on the ground but only with b!ack and wh!te business elite/people?
When things like these happen, one would think that uncle Bob's radicalism in giving economic resources to the local b!acks is never a bad idea at all. Our ANC is still afraid of the colonialists and that would not end now or soon.
How i wish there was a man of Irvin Jim/Andile Mqi***na/Vavi/Peter Mokaba/Malema's calibre in the current crop of ANC top leaders. Non of the current leaders is radical and militant.
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Neon
Dj, thx, I just really want this country to be the best. It's is just unfortuanate that like minded people's voices are dwarfed by blacks and whites who do not really care about this lovely country.Report Abuse
DJWinner
WakeUpSouthAfricaDJWinner - "People will never unite when there is still such a big gap between them. I'm not saying that people must give everything away, but I say people must share."
The black middle class is now bigger than the entire white population. Are you saying that the black middle class and the poor cannot unite?
Dude, your natural hate for white people is confusing you to all the real issues in South Africa./
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Nobody hate white people here. Stating facts does not mean hate. Unfortunately, these issues will not go away. Especially as people are still in the state of denial.
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
DJWinner - "Look at the percentages of population. For example, you have 1 million black people each own R2, then you have 2 white people each own R500 000. So, you see?"Most white people dont own mines or farms right. Most white people are lower-middle/middle class. What YOU are doign is demonising the entire white race, because of 5 families that control most of the mines. You can k1ss my @ss for that.
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
DJWinner - The REAL problem in SA, is education and overpopulation. Not peoples wealth.You are the one living in denial.
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DJWinner
WakeUpSouthAfricaDJWinner - We will NEVer be united if folks like you keep spewing anti-white propaganda.
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I just hope one day, you will accept these things.
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NomdeGuerre
@DJWinnerLook at the percentages of population. For example, you have 1 million black people each own R2, then you have 2 white people each own R500 000. So, you see?
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But you need to look at the reason for that. It is not because the white people magically got R500 000 in most cases they studied hard in areas like engineering or sciences where their skills would earn them that R500 000 rand while the 95% of those black people would be lucky to have a matric (for what it is worth). If you were to give all of those 1 million people R500 000 most would be poor within a few years again as they don't have skills to manage or grow it.
The only thing that can help these people is free or subsidised education, training colleges and quality schools and that is all the governments responsibility and it is their resposibility to then make use of these facilities.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a life time.
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DJWinner
@WakeUpSouthAfrica...Let's agree to disagree. The struggle continues....Report Abuse
MommaC
BokFanHey there Bokkie :)
Yea, definitely some characters on here. Its a lot tamer than the old Times though.
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerLook at the percentages of population. For example, you have 1 million black people each own R2, then you have 2 white people each own R500 000. So, you see?
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I promise you I did not go out and had s.ex with 12 million woman in the last 18 years, it is not my fault that the there are millions more black people than whites. This is one that you we must speak to black people and your government about. Handing out grants is just causing the population to bubble more. How can one ever fight poverty if people just keep popping out babies like it is in fashion.
White population stayed steady if not declined since 1994.
So who's fault is it?
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MommaC
DJWinner...... I'm still waiting for some FACTS.
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
Nwanawamukalaha - Dude, we are not being advantaged from the current economy. You are not taking advantage of it. That is the bottom line.Why is there no new African banks created? Why not a black investment company/insurance company etc. etc. etc.
You think that you can distribute the minority of jobs available and employ EVERYONE in the country. Unfortunately, we are not Jesus. We cant take 5 loaves and fishes and distribute it to millions of people. You cant take 10 jobs and hope to employ 100 people.
The whites who are rolling forward with the economy, are doing it at a disadvantage. Due to policies implimented by the government. But, thank goodness, the economy is a free market system. Im not reliant on anyone to further my goals.
If it wasnt for the current economy, the government wouldnt have a trillion rand budget. You wouldnt receive free housing and education. You wouldnt receive grants.
Be thankful and grateful you tw@t.
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NomdeGuerre
@NomdeGuerre....Your comments are not helping towards reconciliation, sorry.
Sorry if I don't seem sympathetic to people who are struggling I am. What I am asking (as have some others) is what do you suggest as a reasonable way to share wealth in a sustainable and productive manner.
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MicaParis
DjEp@MicaParis
Good morning to you Sis' but i must say i disagree with you big time. This is not where the President should waste his energy. There are strategic issues and departments which the President must inteverne personaly, eg books issue in Limpopo,half built RDP houses,the non ending Gauteng freeways improvement,etc.
I dont see what value does sitting in Kliptown adds axcept to wasting our hard earned cash unnecesarily.
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Exactly true Comrade DJep I agree with your disagreement, but I still stand with my idea that Comrades in leadership must accustom themselves with on ground issues and General Public debates like that, for me the fact that at list they have hitten the call to engage with the poor and marginalized masses of our country is of vital and important! All we need is direct public political debates such as this one for the executive to here closely urgent demands of our people!
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
MicaParis - What do these government social cohesion meetings help? What do government officials who arrive with their blue light guards and their luxury vehicles know about what we experience as everyday South Africans?Report Abuse
Nwanawamukalaha
NomdeGuerre@DJWinner
Look at the percentages of population. For example, you have 1 million black people each own R2, then you have 2 white people each own R500 000. So, you see?
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But you need to look at the reason for that. It is not because the white people magically got R500 000 in most cases they studied hard in areas like engineering or sciences where their skills would earn them that R500 000 rand while the 95% of those black people would be lucky to have a matric (for what it is worth). If you were to give all of those 1 million people R500 000 most would be poor within a few years again as they don't have skills to manage or grow it.
The only thing that can help these people is free or subsidised education, training colleges and quality schools and that is all the governments responsibility and it is their resposibility to then make use of these facilities.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a life time
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What do you mean by wh!te studying hard as if we don't study hard?
The imbalance is everywhere. The latest statistics show that an average b!lack man earns R2500 and an average wh!te man earns R19000. From that, how do you associate the two with studying hard and being paid because of your skin colour?
From experience, a b!ack person who's experienced is nomarly a mentor to a wh!te person. Huess what, in no time, the two will be earning more or less the same. That's in private sector and something i'm sure the state has won in scraping out.
Labelling b!acks as poor money managers is pure ignorance and supportive of the low salary scales for us.
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
Nwanawamukalaha - "The latest statistics show that an average b!lack man earns R2500 and an average wh!te man earns R19000."[Citation needed]
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SeshegoGuY
@NomdeGuerreBut you need to look at the reason for that. It is not because the white people magically got R500 000 in most cases they studied hard in areas like engineering or sciences where their skills would earn them that R500 000 rand while the 95% of those black people would be lucky to have a matric (for what it is worth
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I read this twice and i find no substance whatsover. Question: When Last were u at a Graduation ceremony??? Who's the majority?? Ur statement is offensive and one-sided
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SOLUTIONS
NwanawamukalahaThe imbalance is everywhere. The latest statistics show that an average b!lack man earns R2500 and an average wh!te man earns R19000. From that, how do you associate the two with studying hard and being paid because of your skin colour?
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Very interesting stats, could you please supply me with the article or the url. We must also remember that more that more than 500 000 people who started their education 13 years ago in grade one did not show up last year to write their final exams for matric. Please tell me, uneducated people who does not even have a matric certificate, where does your company place these people and with what salary?
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Nwanawamukalaha
After all, this social cohesion thing should be discussed by b!acks since nothing comes from wh!tes that seems to lead to reconciliation and cohesion. This is just a problem of scared top ANC cadres who are still worshipping the wh!te master. Their slow approach to burning economic issues is affecting the man on the ground at some point, there'll be a revolution against them.Report Abuse
MommaC
NwanawamukalahaIn all fairness, the average white child goes to a model C school. The average black child is at the mercy of Angie and her incompetence. Yes, that is a situation created by history but it should be addressed to bring the average black child UP to the levels of where the more fortunate are. Not (as Angie seems to want) to bring the standards DOWN to the lowest common denominator. Sort out the education discrepancy and the salary discrepancy will sort itself out
In many ways, AA has improved the white, coloured and indian children. They know full well that they have to excel or lose out on tertiary education. No longer is 65% or 75% good enough. They now need consistent scores of 90% and above.
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BokFan
Eish it seems that those demanding that whites "share" the wealth don't really have a program for how it should be done and how the benefits will get to to the "majority"Either they don't have a program or they are too shy to tell us that redistribution is only for the fatcats at the top of the anc thugpile.
Sorry DJWinner this time I think you are the loser.
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SOLUTIONS
MommaCDJWinner
...... I'm still waiting for some FACTS.
Do you also think there is some hard thumb sucking going on now. lol
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NomdeGuerre
The imbalance is everywhere. The latest statistics show that an average b!lack man earns R2500 and@Nwanawamukalaha
an average wh!te man earns R19000. From that, how do you associate the two with studying hard and being paid because of your skin colour?
From experience, a b!ack person who's experienced is nomarly a mentor to a wh!te person. Huess what, in no time, the two will be earning more or less the same. That's in private sector and something i'm sure the state has won in scraping out.
Labelling b!acks as poor money managers is pure ignorance and supportive of the low salary scales for us.
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You misuderstand what I am saying. I did not say that blacks do not study hard or were not smart. What I am saying is for the vast majority don't have access to quality education. You need to understand where those statistics come from. If you have a 100 000 qualified black people earning 20 000 a month and 900 000 earning 2000 a month the average income is 3800 per person per month. The only way to change that is to give the 900 000 the skills to earn more money. A black person is earning the same as a white person with the same skills but there are far more black people without skills that create the statistical difference.
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MommaC
SOLUTIONSI sometimes wonder if young DJ ever takes his thumb out of his mouth !
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SOLUTIONS
NwanawamukalahaAfter all, this social cohesion thing should be discussed by b!acks since nothing comes from wh!tes that seems to lead to reconciliation and cohesion. This is just a problem of scared top ANC cadres who are still worshipping the wh!te master. Their slow approach to burning economic issues is affecting the man on the ground at some point, there'll be a revolution against them.
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So where the anc F' s up, we must blame the white people.
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
Nwanawamukalaha - LOLWere here every day giving you solutions to social cohesion. But you just wount LISTEN.
Just like we told Julius before the last elections, please, dont support Zuma. We cant have him as president. Then the Julius fool told us, "Hey wena, you are being racist!" And then he started singing that he will kiiill for Zuma. Now he says that supporting Zuma was his biggest mistake ever.
You need to GROW UP. You need to do some introspection, and stop blaming everyone else for your own f***UPS!
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
Nwanawamukalaha - The revolution (South African spring will be against the ANC, against Malema, against Zuma, against Winnie etc.Report Abuse
NomdeGuerre
05 Jul 2012SeshegoGuY@NomdeGuerre
But you need to look at the reason for that. It is not because the white people magically got R500 000 in most cases they studied hard in areas like engineering or sciences where their skills would earn them that R500 000 rand while the 95% of those black people would be lucky to have a matric (for what it is worth
*******************************************************************
I read this twice and i find no substance whatsover. Question: When Last were u at a Graduation ceremony??? Who's the majority?? Ur statement is offensive and one-sided
Sorry it is offensive but it is a fact I own an electronics and IT company and everytime I have advertised a position we are lucky to get one black applicant out of twenty and most are snapped up by big corporates. I know this is a case in several other engineering fields as well. People (not only black ones) need choose what they study carefully as it affects your oppertunities later.
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Cl!ck
If you're new on this blogg and want to make your mark.. I suggest you focus on DJExposed aka DJWinner, ask him a couple of current affair questions & you'll see the reaction.. I know alot of newcomers who've done this.. Trust me, it works!!Report Abuse
SOLUTIONS
WakeUpSouthAfricaYou need to GROW UP.
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The problem is the anc calls themselves youth until the age of 35, now we have a lot of 21 - 35 year old's acting like teenagers expecting everything must be given to them like true teenagers does.
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BokFan
NwanawamukalahaThats more like it. Outright naked racism and hate is more palatable to me than this airy fairy nonsense about share this share that.
I think people like you Nwanawhatwhatwhatwhat, primitive as you are, will probably be the one of the few tribesmen to survive the battles to come.
Unfortunately I don't think you have it in you to last much longer than that. Especially when you see your Zim and Moz counterparts fleeing back to their countries to get away from the hell you have created here and wont let local kwerekweres like you climb the border fence to steal THEIR grant money and jobs.
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
What doesnt help with social cohesion, is calling us 'imperialists', 'slave masters' and whatever else at any given opportunity.Report Abuse
DJWinner
MommaCDJWinner
...... I'm still waiting for some FACTS.
................................
Look outside your window and see struggling black people.
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MommaC
DJWinnerNope. Only the garden and a couple of cold sparrows out there.
Where are the hard, tangible FACTS.
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerLook outside your window and see struggling black people.
---------------------------------------------
There are struggling white people as well, poverty does not choose a certain race.
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DJWinner
Cl!ckIf you're new on this blogg and want to make your mark.. I suggest you focus on DJExposed aka DJWinner, ask him a couple of current affair questions & you'll see the reaction.. I know alot of newcomers who've done this.. Trust me, it works!!
...........................................................
You must learn to distingish between jokes and serious issues.
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DJWinner
SOLUTIONSDJWinner
Look outside your window and see struggling black people.
---------------------------------------------
There are struggling white people as well, poverty does not choose a certain race.
.................................................
You are still refusing to look at the percentages.
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BokFan
DJ WinnerThe only struggling black I see is you and the other layabouts who think life owes them a beemer and a big tender.
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DJWinner
MommaCDJWinner
Nope. Only the garden and a couple of cold sparrows out there.
Where are the hard, tangible FACTS.
........................
Think!
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerYou are still refusing to look at the percentages.
I will re-post my previous comment, you fail to look at facts.
I promise you I did not go out and had s.ex with 12 million woman in the last 18 years, it is not my fault or that of white people that there are millions more black people than whites. This is one that you/ we must speak to black people and your government about. Handing out grants is just causing the population to bubble more. How can one ever fight poverty if people just keep popping out babies like it is in fashion. Claiming poverty when you have no job and 6 children is m.oronic.
White population stayed steady if not declined since 1994.
So who's fault is it?
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DJWinner
BokFanDJ Winner
The only struggling black I see is you and the other layabouts who think life owes them a beemer and a big tender.
.......................................
It is comments like this that are dividing this country even further.
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MommaC
DJWinnerThink about what?
How on earth does the sparrows have anything to do with who owns land in SA ?????
Come on boychild, give me FACTS about current land ownership or admit that you are making things up as you go along.
Report Abuse
DJWinner
SOLUTIONSDJWinner
You are still refusing to look at the percentages.
I will re-post my previous comment, you fail to look at facts.
I promise you I did not go out and had s.ex with 12 million woman in the last 18 years, it is not my fault or that of white people that there are millions more black people than whites. This is one that you/ we must speak to black people and your government about. Handing out grants is just causing the population to bubble more. How can one ever fight poverty if people just keep popping out babies like it is in fashion. Claiming poverty when you have no job and 6 children is m.oronic.
White population stayed steady if not declined since 1994.
So who's fault is it?
.....................................
Well, this is racist.
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Cl!ck
@ DjWinnerI was only joking.. Funny hey?
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinner.....................................
Well, this is racist, please explain?
is it racist because it is fact?
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DJWinner
MommaCDJWinner
Think about what?
How on earth does the sparrows have anything to do with who owns land in SA ?????
Come on boychild, give me FACTS about current land ownership or admit that you are making things up as you go along.
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Everybody knows that the land is still owned by the majority of white people in country. I will not argue with you on this one. This is a very sensitive issue to the majority of South African people. Deny it all you want.
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DJWinner
SOLUTIONSDJWinner
.....................................
Well, this is racist, please explain?
is it racist because it is fact?
.....................
Consider revisiting your comment.
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerMommaC
DJWinner
Nope. Only the garden and a couple of cold sparrows out there.
Where are the hard, tangible FACTS.
........................
Think!
--------
I am thinking that about 75% of land belongs to the majority and State, and the rest are divided into the minority groups. HEY, just because I thought this it is FACT.
There you go DJ,
75% ---- Majority and State
25%--- minority groups.
AND THIS IS FACT.
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MommaC
DJWinnerWell at some stage "everybody' knew that the earth was the centre of the universe and that there were sea monsters that ate ships. Seems like 'everybody' is still ignorant.
Don't come with airy-fairy notions, give me FACTS or admit that you are talking k@k.
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerConsider revisiting your comment.
------------------
I did, nothing racist, just the truth and I know, sometimes the truth hurt, but what can one do about it.
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DJWinner
SOLUTIONSDJWinner
Consider revisiting your comment.
------------------
I did, nothing racist, just the truth and I know, sometimes the truth hurt, but what can one do about it.
....................................
Well, go read it again, but not emotionally this time.
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somaartakeit
NeonSorry DJ winner it is not that simple to say that "blacks remain poor" and "whites get richer" For 18 years the Anc goverment as helped it's self to the pap pot too much,leaving nothing for the poor. Now all of a sudden they are waking up, and guess who gets the blame? the bad old whites again.
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you will never get thru to DJ cause he is a brainwashed anc sheep repeating same cr@p his leaders told him in some of these bogus meetings/summits that don't yield any results, fortunately majority black SAns now know they are poor as a direct result of jacob zuma and co using our resources on unnecessary expenditure such as a 2bil jet for himself his million wives and kids whilst majority of us have to live in poverty, Race card is the only thing left for these con artists posing as leaders and their sheep,
DJ zuma's children are millions overnight whilst majority of you in KZN live in abject poverty, how do you reconcile that?
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somaartakeit
@SOLUTIONSDJWinner
Consider revisiting your comment.
------------------
I did, nothing racist, just the truth and I know, sometimes the truth hurt, but what can one do about it.
----------------------------------------
DJ always has to make himself out as a victim of either tribalism or racism, that's so typically anc manipulate emotions to gain upper hand in the debate.
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerWell, go read it again, but not emotionally this time.
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I think you read it emotionally, hence the emotional response of that is racist. How else would you like to clarify the % differences if I did it in a racist way. Why would you say there is such a huge difference in the population numbers?
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DJWinner
MommaCDJWinner
Well at some stage "everybody' knew that the earth was the centre of the universe and that there were sea monsters that ate ships. Seems like 'everybody' is still ignorant.
Don't come with airy-fairy notions, give me FACTS or admit that you are talking k@k.
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This is a very sensitive issue. Getting emotionally and vulgar about it will not help. We have to address these issues. Look these things will not go away whether we get emotionally or not.
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DJWinner
@somaartakeit...I have one sentence for you: Mbeki is not coming back.Report Abuse
DJWinner
@SOLUTIONS...Let's agree to disagree.Report Abuse
SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerThis is a very sensitive issue.
If this is such an sensitive issue, please supply us with the facts so this can be addressed.
Building a house needs material, from bricks to cement to pipes and tiles, without these one cannot start to build.
To address a sensitive issue, we need to start and look at the facts, without the facts we cannot start to build the house.
So where are the facts, what are we going to do about it.
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somaartakeit
@DJ unlike you I don't support a man/woman cause he/she belongs to my tribe or race I support merit which is why in the first place I didn't vote for Mbeki in his second term cause he thoroughly p!ssed me off on the aids issue, wena you are a sheep you follow leaders and say 'bayede wena nkosi' just like a brainless sheep without any ability to think for yourself whether what you are worshiping is helpful to your cause of a better life as promised by these thieving liars you call leaders.Report Abuse
BokFan
DJ WinnerMy old mate Stirrer would by now have given you a new name. Probably something like kakpraat or similar.
Why do people like you persist in wasting everyone's time with your rubbish talk and behaviour. Please man there are people in this world with more productive things to do than constantly fix the things you keep breaking. Don't you realise that time is a finite resource that cant be replaced.
Do us all a favour and give a bit more thought to your contributions in future
Thank you.
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
DJWinner - This isnt a sensitive issue. Its merely you, and your fellow white-demonisers that harp on about this topic, WITHOUT ANY FACTS TO BACKUP YOUR PROPAGANDA!YOU are the problem with South Africa.
YOU are the one blocking social cohesion.
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somaartakeit
and btw I also didn't support TM's third term bid (as country president) but I didn't expect you ppl will drag us a mouse in the house, I have never thought you could stoop this low in selecting leaders, I must say you exceeded any form of shallowness, and that you defend this BS sinking this country into even lowest levels tells me that you have no standards or values.Report Abuse
MommaC
DJWinnerHow do you 'address these issues' when you won't even share the FACTS about these issues?
For heavens sake boychild, bring me something to change my mind or admit that you are spouting nonsense.
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinner@SOLUTIONS...Let's agree to disagree.
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about what? as per your below request you wanted us to look at the percentages in which I gave you my honest opinion and you said it is racist, what is your opinion?
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DJWinner
There are struggling white people as well, poverty does not choose a certain race.
.................................................
You are still refusing to look at the percentages.
Report Abuse
DJWinner
MommaCDJWinner
How do you 'address these issues' when you won't even share the FACTS about these issues?
For heavens sake boychild, bring me something to change my mind or admit that you are spouting nonsense.
.............................................................................................
You must admit that you are in a state of denial and this will not help with the unity we are trying to promote here.
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SeshegoGuY
@SolutionsI promise you I did not go out and had s.ex with 12 million woman in the last 18 years, it is not my fault or that of white people that there are millions more black people than whites. This is one that you/ we must speak to black people and your government about. Handing out grants is just causing the population to bubble more. How can one ever fight poverty if people just keep popping out babies like it is in fashion. Claiming poverty when you have no job and 6 children is m.oronic.
***************************************************************************************************************
I find your statement littered with sarcasm, a case of "US" & "Them" and very Elitist
Most people are disappointed with how the current Administration is running the Country but it doesn't excuse ur divisive rant by "INSINUATING" that All Black People do is engage in Sex and "Popping out babies like it is in fashion". Ur comment does not in any way foster better relations in this Country as it is the worst form of "Finger Pointing"
Poverty in this Country and many other parts of the World is Real and is not in any way m.onoric
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DJWinner
@somaartakeit...You are lying. Even in this day, you are still whining about him.Report Abuse
MommaC
DJWinnerWell how about presenting a few FACTS to convince me?
Come now. I'm sure you can give me percentages by province to back up your land ownership claims.
Report Abuse
DJWinner
@WakeUpSouthAfrica...I've already told you that the struggle continues. We cannot force you to come to the party.Report Abuse
somaartakeit
wena DJ if this debate was soccer you would be Ronaldo (from Portugal) diving hoping the ref will give you penalty and send off your opponent, cause like you he has no ability to win on merit, he has to dive, wena I am sure you speak with your hand in your pocket holding firmly on a the race/tribalism card so you can draw it as soon as your brains go on blank to try advance your position, what you must know very quickly for my part I don't do political correctness so I don't give a fig about tribe or race I will say to you what needs to be said, and the more you pull you victimhood card the more brutal I will be, cause there is nothing that infuriates me more than dishonesty, you are dishonest that is why you try to manipulate us by abusing race/tribalism card, well it won't work with me instead I will use it to brutalise you verbally. This BS victimhood card will only work with white SAns cause they are too politically correct to deal with ppl like you, so here is the tip, to be effect, chose careful when you flash you tribe/race card in your attempts (pathetic) at making yourself a victim.Report Abuse
WakeUpSouthAfrica
DJWinner - The struggle continues.But you are going to the wrong party dude. Your party is for fellow black racists and AWB members.
Report Abuse
somaartakeit
@DJWinner@somaartakeit...You are lying. Even in this day, you are still whining about him.
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I only EVER mention his name when ppl like you try to compare him with this sgubhu of a president cause really there is no comparison, the other is a respected intellectual and the other is a horny intellect dwarf moonlighting as president in SA, spot the difference already, and I h ave no time nor respect for con artists, so you and sgubhu take your cheap tricks and go amuse your kind elsewhere, the only time I will start to horny sgubhu serious is when he starts behavign and speakign like a national leaders till them he is just is just a clot hindering our progress,
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DJWinner
MommaCDJWinner
Well how about presenting a few FACTS to convince me?
Come now. I'm sure you can give me percentages by province to back up your land ownership claims.
...........................................................................................................................
Who doesn't know that the land act took the land from black people? Who doesn't know that the land has not been returned? That is why I say this is a very sensitive issue and we must be very careful how we approach it. These issues need to be addressed and stop denying them.
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SOLUTIONS
SeshegoGuY***************************************************************************************************************
I find your statement littered with sarcasm, a case of "US" & "Them" and very Elitist
Most people are disappointed with how the current Administration is running the Country but it doesn't excuse ur divisive rant by "INSINUATING" that All Black People do is engage in Sex and "Popping out babies like it is in fashion". Ur comment does not in any way foster better relations in this Country as it is the worst form of "Finger Pointing"
Poverty in this Country and many other parts of the World is Real and is not in any way m.onoric
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Lol, thanks on the first line, I find your comment with a bit of inferiority complex associated, maybe you will understand and think my comment through after you read the comments that was made by djwinner. It is not finger pointing, I am not an anc cadre I take irresponsibility for my actions, i used facts, go and look up the populations statistics since 1994, go even earlier and get a bigger shock.
How would you describe people having 4 children with no job and expecting the next, not monoric, I will describe it as m.oronic, especially if they pop another one after that as well. What do they expect but to live in poverty, this is a problem in all races but some seem to care less than others.
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DJWinner
WakeUpSouthAfricaDJWinner - The struggle continues.
But you are going to the wrong party dude. Your party is for fellow black racists and AWB members.
....................
Your opinion and it is incorrect.
Report Abuse
DJWinner
@somaartakeit...I can see you also in a state of denial. I've been following your comments, always whining about Mbeki.Report Abuse
MommaC
DJWinnerAgain - not a single current FACT.
How many land claims are outstanding? How many farms are owned by white people? How many farms are owned by non-white people?
Come on. Give me numbers
Report Abuse
MicaParis
WakeUpSouthAfricaMicaParis - What do these government social cohesion meetings help? What do government officials who arrive with their blue light guards and their luxury vehicles know about what we experience as everyday South Africans?
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Well extremely relevant fact Comrade Wake up! But unfortunately that is the most painful fact that me and you cannot do something about. But on an ultimate solution I think our beloved ANC need a very serious extremely painful ''wake up call'' of a century which the general electorate can offer since they are the ones who predict and control the weather as far as leadership survival of ANC is concerned!! I do not know may be that might be a final solution but you be the judge!
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1937
Orlando Pirates is the new democracy of SA football.Report Abuse
BokFan
It pleases me to see our nation in dialogue and rooting out the rotten apples such as these Zumanoids with their idiocriminal tendencies.Even in the picture you can see the giggling fool lacks any of the presidential qualities of Madame Zille
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
DJWinner - Not opinion in this case fact. You and people like you will share hell with eugene terblanche, hitler and similiar folks.Back in 2010, the government said that 99% of all stolen land cases have been resolved.
So there you have it. Its not a senstive issue anymore.
Repe3ating that over and over doesnt make it true.
Report Abuse
somaartakeit
@Solutions pliz note there is a correlation btwn over-breeding and poverty not only in SA but the world over, so I think its not fair for us to say poor ppl should reduce birth rate, cause that comes across as we are saying bcoz you are poor some of the natural rights denied to you is that you become a parent, what is needed is gov that is pro-active, make birth controls available and accessible to everyone instead of ppl using abortion as a form of birth control,Report Abuse
SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerthis is how your government is fighting poverty.
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/business/2012/07/05/government-orders-shops-to-close
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
MicaParis - The entire word 'racist' is used by black people too much. Its overused. If you want a white dude to back down, you just call him a racist. If you lose an argument, just call the dude a racist.Getting so sick of it. If a white dude attacks a black dude. Its racist, and we must all go to arms, white people arent coming to 'the party' etc. But when a white dude is killed by a black dude, then its merely a crime, and we must calm down etc.
TOO MUCH BULLSH!T GOING ON IN SOUTH AFRICA
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somaartakeit
@DJWinner@somaartakeit...I can see you also in a state of denial. I've been following your comments, always whining about Mbeki.
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The only ppl who are in denial are the ppl who blame whites for eg poverty when they voted for a bunch of thieves to manage our national resources and budget and instead these thieves use our resources on themselves and their families and friends, I have nothing to hide so I have no reason to be in denial about anything, but as you say you have been reading my comments, I supposed you are also another uneducated comrade who reads without comprehension, now that is your issue to deal with, cause I write simple and understandable English which should be understood even by you.
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DJWinner
@MommaC...What I like about your last comment is that you didn't deny that land act took the land from black people and that land is still not yet returned. So, the step in the right direction. Look, I don't work at the post office. Stop asking me about numbers.Report Abuse
SOLUTIONS
somaartakeit@Solutions pliz note there is a correlation btwn over-breeding and poverty not only in SA but the world over, so I think its not fair for us to say poor ppl should reduce birth rate, cause that comes across as we are saying bcoz you are poor some of the natural rights denied to you is that you become a parent, what is needed is gov that is pro-active, make birth controls available and accessible to everyone instead of ppl using abortion as a form of birth control.-----
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I agree 100%, the conversation djwinner and I had right to the top is about something else, but your point is taken.
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SeshegoGuY
@SolutionsLoL..U find my comment with a bit of inferiority complex associated??? Geez!! Is it because i don't generalise like u did (Now u are back-tracking saying this is a problem in all races-- Something u did not allude to in your initial post.) U Isolated the Problem only to a certain section of our Community and that is the main problem i had with what u posted
I understand why the Social Grant was introduced although im disappointed the Govt. is not coming with Programmes to make sure we do away with it eventually and stop us from degenerating into a welfare state (if we r not there already)
Report Abuse
DJWinner
WakeUpSouthAfricaDJWinner - Not opinion in this case fact. You and people like you will share hell with eugene terblanche, hitler and similiar folks.
Back in 2010, the government said that 99% of all stolen land cases have been resolved.
So there you have it. Its not a senstive issue anymore.
Repe3ating that over and over doesnt make it true.
.......................................................
You are lying. Government did say that.
Report Abuse
somaartakeit
@WakeUpSouthAfrica"Getting so sick of it. If a white dude attacks a black dude, its racist" its not only racist its also violent *tongue in cheek*
seriously why do guys attack one another? are you guys still not completely evolved yet? cause really communication tools have advanced so much, so therefore there is no need to be physical against each other, mos!
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DJWinner
@WakeUpSouthAfricaYou are lying. Government did not say that... I meant.
Report Abuse
DJWinner
@somaartakeit...You didn't see all that when Mbeki was in power.Report Abuse
MommaC
DJWinnerYou don't have to work at the Post Office to have numbers - geez! OBE has much to explain!!!!!
Come on! Give me facts and figures or admit that you are talking out of your hat.
Report Abuse
WakeUpSouthAfrica
DJWinner - "land act took the land from black people and that land is still not yet returned."Bullsh11111t, the land has been returned dude. Come on, stop telling us nonsense. We want facts. Not the stuff you pull out of your rear. ie K@K.
Report Abuse
MommaC
August 2008Since its establishment in 1994, South Africa's Commission on Restitution of Land Rights has settled 74 808 out of 79 696 land claims lodged at a cost of R16-billion. Acting chief land claims commissioner Blessing Mphela says all outstanding claims could be settled by 2011.
southafrica.info/about/social/land-010808.htm#ixzz1zjm6T0lg
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somaartakeit
@DJWinner@somaartakeit...You didn't see all that when Mbeki was in power.
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Clearly a debate is clearly wasted on you all you know is deny and make unfounded accusation supporting BS that is destroying our country, now since you don't know how to read with comprehension here is your simple challenge, go the pic accompanying this article look at the body language of your leaders and tell me if those are kind of ppl yo wld trust with power to run our national affairs?
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
somaartakeit - Im not attacking the person, Im merely stating my issues. I have ZERO beed with MicaParis. Im just stating my problems with regards to social cohesion.Report Abuse
MommaC
There was a total of 3 346 outstanding claims of which 1 359 was in KZN. There was a total of 76 506 settled restitution claims from 1995 to date. A total of 2.8m ha had been approved for acquisition of which 979 921 ha had been transferred into the hands of claimant communities and the state. Grants expended since 1995 till the present amounted to R4, 233, 451,032.93. There were 152 land claim dispute cases in court with the most in KZN.pmg.org.za/report/20120207-department-rural-development-and-land-reform-special-investigative-un
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
DJWinner - Read it and weep boytjie:http://www.property[24].com/articles/99-of-gauteng-land-claims-settled/10572
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MommaC
DJ WinnerNOW - come with your FACTS
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
DJWinner - You see now why facts are so important?Because otherwise you look quite stttuuuuupid.
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somaartakeit
@WakeUpSA we should not fight we should talk and agree to disagree, I get your point tho that sometimes as in the case of DJ race card is overused but you must know that he is a coward that's why he is hiding behind race and tribe cause without these cards he has no other card to play, to win this fight one has to bring facts to the table cause truth triumphs always:-)Report Abuse
somaartakeit
another point to remember on the land squabble is that gov officials stole funds from land bank, funds which were supposed to have been used to fund and support up coming farmers, and the anc gov of corruption did nothing against that, dj when next you meet up with dancing b*ll ask him what has since happened to the officials implicated on land bank missing funds? he prolly re-deployed them elsewhere as godongwana is goign to be re-deployed so that he can make another pension scheme disappear like he did with the textile workers pension scheme, the anc are like rats always eating what doesn't belong to themReport Abuse
16-12-1838
The one thing us S.Africans are good at...creating a lot of hot air! A whole lot of talk but absolutely nothing substantial and tangible???I have yet to meet someone who can or read something that will, categorically explain how nationalisation/redistribution of wealth/land grabs/economic freedom can be implementd in such a manner that the majority will benefit??? There is insurmountable evidence, steadfast facts, throughout the modern world where such economic idealogies have failed drastically; time and time again. Why should this country be any different?
Those who support such policies, must know deep down in their hearts that it will only end in failure. With more suffering and possibly even bloodshed, and if you believe that the current crop of leaders within the anc are capable of performing such miracles - then you are the ones who are in denial and greatly deluded!
Yes, something needs to be done to address these sensitive issues and re-dress the imbalances of the past BUT destroying the economy, education system and infrastructure to enrich the political elite is most definitely not the answer. What we need is a govt that is willing to open up dialogue and not create further divisions. A govt that is 100% accountable to every single S.African, who puts the livelihood of the people before themselves. One who puts education, at every level, on top of its agenda and makes it the number one priority. Only then will an economy be created where people can compete freely and fairly, as market conditions will determine the weak from the strong based on an individuals personal choice.
I am afraid, and in no way am I being derogatory here, your beloved anc has lied and cheated you out of a future where dreams of prosperity could have been achieved. Behind their gold-plated, diamond encrusted closed doors at Luthuli house, they are laughing at you while sipping on imported champagne.
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
somaartakeit I can have decent debates with decent people. I was having one with MacParis.With regards to the racism card, we heard COSATU use it yesterday and the day before. With regards to education (private schools). And saying that education is a bastion of 'racism' for the whites.
Evenn though its COSATU allied teachers that strike and buurn down classrooms. Even though its the ANC thats been blocking classrooms. Even though OBE was implemented with disastrous effects...
Last night, farm worker was k1lled. Reported by the woman farm owner. Evidence leads that other farm workers had the man ki1led. but now some government tool opened his mouth again, crying racism.
Sick as sh1t of that k@k.
Its always racism and the white man.
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
somaartakeit - Motlanthe himself stole money out of the landbank. When it was discovered, it was merely a 'loan' and the money was repaid.Report Abuse
somaartakeit
dj here get yourself informed so you can come across educated about theft going on right under the watch of your beloved anc theft of resources which were budgeted to uplift the poor in this case up coming farmers, and then you want to blame whites for this?http://www.meattradenewsdaily.co.uk/news/220909/south_africa___billions_lost_at_land_bank.aspx
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DJWinner
MommaCDJ Winner
NOW - come with your FACTS
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You refused to think after looking opening your window and look outside.
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MicaParis
MommaCAugust 2008
Since its establishment in 1994, South Africa's Commission on Restitution of Land Rights has settled 74 808 out of 79 696 land claims lodged at a cost of R16-billion. Acting chief land claims commissioner Blessing Mphela says all outstanding claims could be settled by 2011.
southafrica.info/about/social/land-010808.htm#ixzz1zjm6T0lg
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I will be very wrong if I cannot notice initiative brilliant quality commentary which is intellectually researched and of very good quality reference! As usual MommaC your comments keep me so clued on this blog keep it up, we really need matured comments like these, with due respect you can feel and appreciated quality comments our proud senior citizens! It does not take an illiterate like Jacob Zuma to realise that MommaC is indeed an opposite senior citizen of Mzanzi!!
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
somaartakeit = Why are you linking us 'imperialist' news sites from the right-wing corporate media you bloody agent :PReport Abuse
DJWinner
WakeUpSouthAfricaDJWinner - You see now why facts are so important?
Because otherwise you look quite stttuuuuupid.
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Well, I don't look stupid. It is your opinion and it is incorrect. We all know that the majority of land and economy is still in the hands of white males. We can deny it all we can, but this is a fact.
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Charley4sure
Ofcouse gathering views in order to have a peaceful society is required. But having a fancy talk because of a crude painting is stupid. There are more relevant issues needed to be addressed. The poor care not abouta summit, they need implementation. Zuma is no president material period....
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DJWinner
DJWinnerMommaC
DJ Winner
NOW - come with your FACTS
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You refused to think after opening your window and look outside, I meant.
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MommaC
MicaParisThank you sweetie. Now could you PLEASE explain to DJ why the birds in my garden have absolutely nothing to do with the land distribution issue?
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somaartakeit
@1937 you are being an @rsehole kid now, and your behaviour shld be an embarrassment to the club you claim support, you remind of the old anc trolls who used to do exactly what you've just done in defense of anc incompetence, pliz get a life and grow the hell up!!!Report Abuse
MommaC
DJWinnerMy window isn't the issue. The conversation was about LAND CLAIMS and LAND OWNERSHIP. Now leave my garden and my happy birds out of this and give me FACTS
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MommaC
1937??? nursery school out early today ???
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DJWinner
MommaCDJWinner
My window isn't the issue. The conversation was about LAND CLAIMS and LAND OWNERSHIP. Now leave my garden and my happy birds out of this and give me FACTS
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Well, I can't force you to think.
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SOLUTIONS
DJwinner,Like always on sowetan, you argument was slam dunked proven wrong back in your face.
The one side provided facts
You provided thumb sucks.
Who should be correct in this debate, uhhhhhhmmmmm DJWINNER --NOT>
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MommaC
DJWinner"think' about what?
You have not given a single shred of evidence for me to ponder
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16-12-1838
I also want to see some facts...and while you are at it - please could you explain how this whole 'economic freedom' and redistribution of wealth via nationalisation etc. works, so that the majority will benefit???Report Abuse
DJWinner
MommaCDJWinner
"think' about what?
You have not given a single shred of evidence for me to ponder
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But I told you to look outside your window and you refused to think.
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16-12-1838
God help us if looking out of our windows is going to solve the problems in this country! No wonder the anc have done such a disastrous job and the majority are even worse off 18 years down the line...eish!Report Abuse
MommaC
DJWinnerLooked out the window.
The thrush is trying desperately to get the robin to move away from the giant stralitzia and there are a small family of mossies rummaging around in the tyme. Now which of that should I think about?
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Maezizsto4Sure
"Miss Intelligent" aka SomaRRRRRete-I knew I would find you here.Fill me in whats happening.Are you talking Zuma and his spear?Report Abuse
somaartakeit
@DJ its not the slow pace of deliverance of services its the theft of resources and no one being held to account instead redeployed to steal in another department, most of the thieves caught with their hands in the coockie jar so far are black, which blows your argument abt whites getting richer (illegally) out of water, be a man DJ and look within, therein lies the problem of you chosing thieves to manage our national affairs. Whites are guilty of other stuff but they are not responsible to put into power these anc chiefs who are causing many to live in abject poverty casue resources have been stolen, it is the black majority voters who are supporting this grandscale theft against themselves, so therefore you are not a victim but fully participating in your own self destruction.Report Abuse
DJWinner
SOLUTIONSDJwinner,
Like always on sowetan, you argument was slam dunked proven wrong back in your face.
The one side provided facts
You provided thumb sucks.
Who should be correct in this debate, uhhhhhhmmmmm DJWINNER --NOT>
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I don't think so. Again, your opinion and it is incorrect.
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DJWinner
MommaCDJWinner
Looked out the window.
The thrush is trying desperately to get the robin to move away from the giant stralitzia and there are a small family of mossies rummaging around in the tyme. Now which of that should I think about?
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You are not thinking.
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerBut I told you to look outside your window and you refused to think.
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Looking out the window and thinking 100 X 5 = 6 does not make it true,
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
DJWinner - Ur a moooroooon and not worth debating dude.Report Abuse
MommaC
DJWinnerYou are not thinking either.
I gave you FACTS to think about (if possible) and you have given me nothing except amusement over the antics of an olive thrush.
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somaartakeit
Maezizsto are you stalking me?Report Abuse
DJWinner
@16-12-1838...I gues you don't know how did we get to that conversation. I will advice you to take few steps back.The problem here is a big gap between blacks and white in terms of wealth and that is why it will be so difficult to unite.
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerI don't think so. Again, your opinion and it is incorrect.
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It is not my opinion, it is a conclusion which was based on facts, how this worked is I looked at your comments where you do not have sufficient,,,, apologies, NO FACTS to state your case.
On the other hand, facts was supplied, did you go through these facts or are you going to keep with the thumb sucks? These facts provided to you came from your own government yet you deny them.
Why do you deny the facts from your own government? the people you voted for!!!!!!
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DJWinner
WakeUpSouthAfricaDJWinner - Ur a moooroooon and not worth debating dude.
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What's up with name calling now?
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somaartakeit
Dj for a person who has a degree and all you can come up with to counter your opponents is 'look out the window' leads me to concl that you should be glad that you are employed in the gov or anc where you don't have to use your brains otherwise you would be another OBE unemployable, you can't even hold a basic debate in a very basic debating platform? shem the anc truly achieved Verwoerds dream of giving black ppl inferior education, they actually went the extra mileReport Abuse
DJWinner
@MommaC...Well, when I look outside my window I see something. Sad situation indeed.We can deny it all we can, but we won't run away from these things. These issues have to be addressed as a prerequisite to us uniting. All we can do is to hope.
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MommaC
DJWinnerWHAT needs to be addressed?
Stop talking like some kind of hong fong soothsayer and spit it out. I don't deal in riddles and I can't see out of your window
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BokFan
Is attention_whore now a swear word?Report Abuse
somaartakeit
@SOLUTIONSDJWinner
"On the other hand, facts was supplied, did you go through these facts or are you going to keep with the thumb sucks? These facts provided to you came from your own government yet you deny them" Nobody until now has ever accused of anc comrades of reading/going through historical or just general facts which forms ppls opinions but you, how do you expect DJ to read something? Please realise that anc ppl don't read hence they always come across as most misinformed that is why its easy for their leaders to BS them all the time.
Now please repeat after me, anc burns books, anc delivers text books in the bushes, anc burns libraries, when you repeat this often enough you will understand why you should not expect anc cadre to have read documented facts, esp since he can whip out his race/tribe card as a defense.
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somaartakeit
@DJWinner@16-12-1838...I gues you don't know how did we get to that conversation. I will advice you to take few steps back.
The problem here is a big gap between blacks and white in terms of wealth and that is why it will be so difficult to unite.
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DJ how do blacks go about attaining wealth for themselves in this new political dispensation? by vote incompetent and corrupt gov into power to steal from them with education minister who is not accountable? At least if you must blame whites for something, please be smart about, do your research cause believe me there are a million things we can blame whites about but you have to research and get knowledge what to blame them on, in order to be effective or have your accusations have some semblance of credibility. Otherwise now you are beaming the rest of us with your foolishness.
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DJWinner
somaartakeitDj for a person who has a degree and all you can come up with to counter your opponents is 'look out the window' leads me to concl that you should be glad that you are employed in the gov or anc where you don't have to use your brains otherwise you would be another OBE unemployable, you can't even hold a basic debate in a very basic debating platform? shem the anc truly achieved Verwoerds dream of giving black ppl inferior education, they actually went the extra mile
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If you were thinking about what I meant about that, you would not make this comment. I always encourage people to think to avoid confusion. Think, read between the lines and all that, it helps. It is unfortunate that people tend to shy away of this encouragement. Anyway, what can we do?
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SOLUTIONS
somaartakeitPoint taken. lol
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DJWinner
MommaCDJWinner
WHAT needs to be addressed?
Stop talking like some kind of hong fong soothsayer and spit it out. I don't deal in riddles and I can't see out of your window
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We can only hope that you will see one day. Or else these issues are not going nowhere and they will remain as stubbling block towards our reconciliation endervours.
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somaartakeit
Dj you are a typical obfuscating anc. You ppl communicate badly, that's why translation is always lost somewhere in the middle, please use communication tools effectively, tell us what is that we should be thinking about or what is to be read btwn your moronic lines? cause since the thread started you said nothing of substance, now pliz sit down you are not in the anc summit here where you ppl open your mouth to cause gas emissions in your attempts to try validate your pathetic existence.You speak like zuma, unclear not precise, indecisive, and without any direction or substance, maybe you shld stick with giggling like your leader cause really communication is not your strong point.
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerI always encourage people to think to avoid confusion. Think, read between the lines and all that, it helps. It is unfortunate that people tend to shy away of this encouragement.
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This is a great trend that you have, encouragement is good for everyone, but please when you encourage us, please encourage us with facts. Facts does not have between the lines, it is the lines.
Keep up the encouragement please, please encourage us with facts. This is the best way to avoid confusion.
it is a fact that 1 + 1 = 2, there is no confusion or between the lines.
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MommaC
DJWinnerJa nee. Now you are just waffling on because you know full well that you are talking nothing but k@k. The one and only issue you pointed out has been well and truly thrashed and now you are too scared to show your complete ignorance by bringing anything else up.
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DJWinner
@somaartakeit...It funny 'cause you did not see all these things when Mbeki was still in power. You voted for the same government that you are criticising today.Well, Judge me all you can. As I always say, it is your opinion. I think otherwise.
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Maezizsto4Sure
"Miss Intelligent" aka SomaRRRRRete-Why are you attacking DJ?You are trying to hard to show people your "intelligence" relax babes.Report Abuse
somaartakeit
Finally I figured it out thought it took me long, this DJ must be zuma he like him think vaguely, is always encouraging ppl to think when he is not encouraging himself to think, most times he doesn't know what he is doing or talking about, zuma get off the computer now!!!Report Abuse
Maezizsto4Sure
MommaC-Dont say people are talkign k@k.You claim to be an elder but you busy swearing.Would you like it if DJ tells you that you also talking k@k?Im not with you on this one noways MommaCaucasian.Report Abuse
somaartakeit
@DJ stop with your BS now, or shall I draw you pictures that I stopped supporting anc during the aids debacle? I also don't owe loyalty to politicians incl those coming frm my region/tribe, now pliz get this basic and simple English into that thick skull of yours.@Maezisto non intelligence is not an option, I don't have this anc luxury of going through as moron. Now do you have anything intelligible you wanted to say? if not sit the f@ck already as I have no time to waste on morons.
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MommaC
Maezizsto4SureI call a spade a spade - it helps to avoid misunderstanding.
DJ is talking k@k. No other way of putting it as I have proven that he is talking k@k.
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Maezizsto4Sure
"Miss Intelligent" aka SomaRRRRRete-Let me get this straight,when someone is not agreeing with your opinion then that person is not intelligent?If only you knew that nobody in the ANC gives a fack about you.You think by making noise here you going to cost ANC votes?MommaCaucasian-Dont be insulted when people younger than you call a spade a spade also.
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somaartakeit
btw dj instead of incessantly blaming white folk for black ppl plight most it is self inflicted, you might wanna use this platform to try persuade them to do what you think they should do to help the plight of majority black ppl, cause when you start with accusation the other party will go on defensive direct, and you will in the end still not have received co-operation, also white ppl have begun to see this BS race card pulling, and when you start your conversation with them on that angle you can be sure you are not going to win or have them on your side, what do you want white ppl to do exactly to help in the process of the issues you are accusing them of? be straight, precise, and honest cause even when they dont' agree/go along at least you will still enjoy respect.Report Abuse
MommaC
Maezizsto4SureSorry, were you talking to me? I was a bit confused there as I have never heard of someone naming their child after a mountain range before.
Bring FACTS and you can put them in spade form if you like.
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MicaParis
MommaCMicaParis
Thank you sweetie. Now could you PLEASE explain to DJ why the birds in my garden have absolutely nothing to do with the land distribution issue?
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The Original Mama Cindy! As a mother you know raising kids is very difficult Comrade as such do not be surprised of number of kids that we must raise and groom under this blog, so exactly our famously acclaimed DJWinner is not an exception to grooming general rule!, I hope that answers your question we do not have to be harsh to our young kids we have to be polite and gentle as responsible parents but I totally agree with your perspective as far as our DJ kid is concerned well we know him like that, that is why we are not surprised! Where is menu-menno another notorious kid, the notorious blocked mind kids!
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Maezizsto4Sure
Would you people please laugh MommaCaucasian has made a joke.Report Abuse
somaartakeit
@Maezisto the only joke here is you, who is attacking MC's race when you should be dealing with issues she raised, you are a typical anc jerk yhazi?Report Abuse
Maezizsto4Sure
I h'ate it when a black person turns against his/her own in order to impress a caucasian.Report Abuse
Maezizsto4Sure
"Miss Intelligent" aka SomaRRRRRete-Thank you for the compliment much appreciated.Report Abuse
BokFan
Hey Racisto-fo-shoDont come late to the meeting and then try and grab the agenda. What has being caucasian to do with DJ Kakpraat being a zumanoid idiot and wasting valuable time with his twak.
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BokFan
Oh sorry I only just realised Racisto is another mindless attention_whore from LOOTHOURLY HOUSEReport Abuse
somaartakeit
@Maezizsto4SureI h'ate it when a black person turns against his/her own in order to impress a caucasian.
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you make it difficult for 'intelligent' blacks to stand by you when all you ever post is unmitigated BS,that goes for dj as well.
On the other hand, when you have black brothers like Makhosini and Dzel who bring facts to the table and discuss relevant matters, even when you disagree with them you do so with respect, wena no dj are trolling not debating so there is nothing to back you up on, I still maintain that anc are a bunch of thieving crooks who are fueling demise of majority black SAns voting for it, FACT!
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MommaC
MicaParisMy Gran had used to say
"Patience is a virtue
Virtue is a grace
Grace is a little girl with a dirty face"
Sometimes DJ pulls patience that far too.
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MommaC
Maezizsto4SureShift change at Loot Freely House?
Bring a fact or two to the table or are you just as lost on this as DJ was?
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somaartakeit
and that you maezisto tries (badly) to use a racist emotional blackmailing for your black support campaign makes all the worse, and if you must argue about land reform, at least bring our facts or well reasoned logic to the table you just might get some backers, but you must have researched what you want to talk about, I know that anc leaders are brainwashing you lot using race card cause that sorts of dis-enable you to think about how, as a direct result of their thieving projects, black ppl are becoming down-troddens and at the end of this grand theft disguise as gov there will be no legacy for black children to inherit and you expect to be supported in this BS?Report Abuse
Maezizsto4Sure
Fact "Miss Intelligent" aka SomaRRRRRete thinks she is white.Report Abuse
MommaC
I'm not sure how much Loot Freely pays their trolls but they really need to ask for a refund. The quality of work is atrocious. Luckily, I'm off to a meeting in Joburg soon so I will be spared the increasing lowering of the bar as well as the irrelevance of it allReport Abuse
somaartakeit
@Maezizsto4SureFact "Miss Intelligent" aka SomaRRRRRete thinks she is white.
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you really need to professional help for your inferiority complex, cause I agree on some of hte issues raised here by white bloggers that makes me think I am white? fact is you have brought nothing to the table to refute facts brought by the other side, you know what I find really unsexy about black males like you? is the huge chirp on your shoulder, I often wonder how do you move around...
to compensate for your inferiority complex you try to wear down emotionally, as I said to DJ it doesn't work with me, you will never get my co-operation by trying to manipulate me using emotional blackmailing, instead I pity you for a sad sad little boy that you are, please grow some balls be a man show the other race that you can stand your ground, not hide behind your race as a shield.
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somaartakeit
people like you maezisto who failed to use tools abundantly available instead try to ride on race card for all its worth, you know you come across as the most useless oxygen thieving git who is trying to us his race in order to get sympathies, I pity you really, cause you don't realise how shameful your behaviour is to your race cause now other races see us a bunch of losers cause they have to endure reading/listening to the 'please feel sorry for my black @rse' gits like you and they assume we are all like that, instead of using muti to enlarge your penis so you can feel manly, you should have enlarged your braincells capacity, as I said that is more stimulating, when I listen and read comments from men like you I know already what a bunch of a loser that you are and if I were to entertain these comments you wld drag me down to your level of losers who are feeling sorry for themselves and blaming the world for self inflicted demise,Report Abuse
DJWinner
MommaCDJWinner
Ja nee. Now you are just waffling on because you know full well that you are talking nothing but k@k. The one and only issue you pointed out has been well and truly thrashed and now you are too scared to show your complete ignorance by bringing anything else up.
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You personal judgemental/ opinion about me. I or someone else will think otherwise.
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Makhosini0408
Good afternoonI urge you for once to look at your contributions in dealing with the scourge of racism. We are all responsible to root it out, but we practice it with impunity. Let us look back, while will wh!te people take us seriously when we (bl@ck) still look down on other ethnic groups? We are our own worst enemies and it is high time we begin to think outside the box, after all, South Africa is for all of us.
On the issue of wh!te people, we paint them with the same brush and yet we cry foul, when they say all of us are corrupt, uneducated, incompetent and criminals?
My view on the matter is that we need to work together, this “we and them” scenario does not auger well to our young democracy. Let us talk about such issues as opposed to sweeping them under the carpet or sugar coating them as political correct.
We cannot substitute racism with liberalism, where we discriminate with impunity and say bad things about other races in the comfort of our homes, friends and boardrooms and passing uncalled for remarks as jokes.
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NomdeGuerre
@DJWinnerWhile I disagree with a lot of what you say you have mentioned two important facts. There is a huge difference in income levels and while this exists proper reconcilliation is nearly impossible.
What I disagree with is your reasoning as to why this gap exists. To my mind it is because people have not been given the chance to get the education/skills they need to progress in the business world. It has nothing to do with white people trying to hold onto wealth and not share and everything to do with the governments ability to provide a way to level the playing field.
Who do you think has more chance of succeeding somebody from a model C / private school or somebody who has been through the public school system or even worse dropped out?
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MommaC
DJWinnerNa. From the other comments here calling on you to bring a single fact to the table, I'd say its pretty much a universal opinion
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somaartakeit
@Makhosini0408 finally a voice of reason:-)Report Abuse
DJWinner
somaartakeit@DJ stop with your BS now, or shall I draw you pictures that I stopped supporting anc during the aids debacle? I also don't owe loyalty to politicians incl those coming frm my region/tribe, now pliz get this basic and simple English into that thick skull of yours.
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ha ha ha...You are allowing yourself to be controlled by emotions. You can deny this now, but deepdown you know it is an absolute truth.
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somaartakeit
and btw maezisto why do you expect that as a black woman I should back a system that is advancing my development? and you expect that I do this only on the basis that the destroyers of our country have a black face? do you think this is what the struggle was about? another that you should know, I know that men like you, always almost expect that black women abide and are loyal to supporting bad decisions made by foolish black men like you, you are like children with diarrhea shyting everywhere and on everything and expect your mothers to run after you with a bucket of water to clean up, don't try that with me cause I am not those African girls who put up with BS in the name of culture and blackness.Report Abuse
DJWinner
MommaCDJWinner
Na. From the other comments here calling on you to bring a single fact to the table, I'd say its pretty much a universal opinion
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And that is why I encouraged you to think. I wonder why people tend to shy away from thinking.
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somaartakeit
at DJ you were supposed to bring facts to support your position it seems you have now turned into a mind reader? and as result you are ass uming stuff about me? I dont' have time to discuss 'me' with you, please look at the content of the thread and engage me accordingly,Report Abuse
Maezizsto4Sure
kikikikikikiki what do you think you are?Report Abuse
MommaC
DJWinnerI do 'think'.
I 'think' you have no facts
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Maezizsto4Sure
What time is your meeting?Report Abuse
DJWinner
NomdeGuerre@DJWinner
While I disagree with a lot of what you say you have mentioned two important facts. There is a huge difference in income levels and while this exists proper reconcilliation is nearly impossible.
What I disagree with is your reasoning as to why this gap exists. To my mind it is because people have not been given the chance to get the education/skills they need to progress in the business world. It has nothing to do with white people trying to hold onto wealth and not share and everything to do with the governments ability to provide a way to level the playing field.
Who do you think has more chance of succeeding somebody from a model C / private school or somebody who has been through the public school system or even worse dropped out?
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Not all of us are educationally gifted. Some people are slow at school, but these people have other skills. They can farm, for example. That is why I say the land must be shared. People must stop holding on to it.
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MommaC
Don't worry, I am going. Was just printing out the last of the documents I need. Will be back to laugh at you again in a couple of hoursReport Abuse
SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerAnd that is why I encouraged you to think. I wonder why people tend to shy away from thinking.
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Give facts so that we can think about the facts. what do you think, should we think about the facts or should we think about fairy tales and bananas.
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Maezizsto4Sure
I will also laugh at you caucasians do not scare me.Report Abuse
DJWinner
MommaCDJWinner
I do 'think'.
I 'think' you have no facts
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If you were thinking, you would see it otherwise.
Report Abuse
SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerThat is why I say the land must be shared. People must stop holding on to it.
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How would you like people to share land regardless of race?
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DJWinner
SOLUTIONSDJWinner
And that is why I encouraged you to think. I wonder why people tend to shy away from thinking.
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Give facts so that we can think about the facts. what do you think, should we think about the facts or should we think about fairy tales and bananas
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If you were thinking, you would not even make this comment.
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerIf you were thinking, you would see it otherwise.
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I am thinking facts are proof, thinking does not prove anything. Thinking 1+1 = 6 does not make it true.
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DJWinner
SOLUTIONSDJWinner
That is why I say the land must be shared. People must stop holding on to it.
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How would you like people to share land regardless of race?
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The land must shared equally by all people of South Africa.
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somaartakeit
to be fair to yourself DJ you shld acknowledge that you have nothing to back up your land reform discussion, you just like to bring this up to wind up white ppl, but to effectively wind up someone you must have facts to hand, and just btw its not white ppl's job to dish out land to the landless its the gov's job using policies they told us they have, but instead they robbed land bank as they are robbing everything, somehow you wanna make this a white ppl problem?Report Abuse
NomdeGuerre
@DJWinnerNot all of us are educationally gifted. Some people are slow at school, but these people have other skills. They can farm, for example. That is why I say the land must be shared. People must stop holding on to it.
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By education I did not just mean book learning, trade skills like plumbing, welding building etc can also lead to successfull careers if they are combined with business training. There is nothing wrong with helping people become farmers but that means more than just giving them a piece of land and saying off you go farm. That is why so many new farmers have failed. It is better to help one person become a successful farmer who will create employment than setting up 100 people to fail and cause those that depend on them to lose there jobs.
There are plenty of farmers who are happy to form co-operatives I know because my cousin is involved in a successful scheme like this. The problem is you never hear about it as it doesn't suite the governments agenda. They need someone to point the finger at to excuse their failures.
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerIf you were thinking, you would not even make this comment.
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If you could think, you would think one need facts to support your theory, something which you don't have, proving your inability to think.
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somaartakeit
@DJWinnerSOLUTIONS
DJWinner
That is why I say the land must be shared. People must stop holding on to it.
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How would you like people to share land regardless of race?
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The land must shared equally by all people of South Africa.
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LOVL but you are full of fairy-tales? no wonder your opponents find it very hard to not lol reading what you try to pass out as a point/fact. You do realise that you are not in the anc meeting here? you are instead with ppl who will challenge (at times with facts) your views?
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DJWinner
somaartakeitto be fair to yourself DJ you shld acknowledge that you have nothing to back up your land reform discussion, you just like to bring this up to wind up white ppl, but to effectively wind up someone you must have facts to hand, and just btw its not white ppl's job to dish out land to the landless its the gov's job using policies they told us they have, but instead they robbed land bank as they are robbing everything, somehow you wanna make this a white ppl problem?
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I mentioned the land was taken from blacks by land act and that land has to be returned. This is a fact. People must denying this because it is a very sensitive issue. Holding on to land will not help us in trying to create unity.
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerThe land must shared equally by all people of South Africa
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I don't want a big piece of land, the people staying in Sandton don't want land, wtf must they do with it?
If people wanted land, why are flats being build by the day.
You see DJ, your thinking is dropping you completely again, if all land must be distributed between all people of SA, then each person will sit with 61 square meters. Now please, WTF are we going to do if each person have 61 square meters,
Do you think?
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DJWinner
SOLUTIONSDJWinner
If you were thinking, you would not even make this comment.
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If you could think, you would think one need facts to support your theory, something which you don't have, proving your inability to think.
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It is lie that the land was taken away from black people? And that it is still not returned?
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerI mentioned the land was taken from blacks by land act and that land has to be returned. This is a fact. People must denying this because it is a very sensitive issue. Holding on to land will not help us in trying to create unity.
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Dude, you have been proven wrong, did you not go and read the facts that was given to you?
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerIt is lie that the land was taken away from black people? And that it is still not returned?..
Thank you for confirming,
Confused
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DJWinner
SOLUTIONSDJWinner
The land must shared equally by all people of South Africa
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I don't want a big piece of land, the people staying in Sandton don't want land, wtf must they do with it?
If people wanted land, why are flats being build by the day.
You see DJ, your thinking is dropping you completely again, if all land must be distributed between all people of SA, then each person will sit with 61 square meters. Now please, WTF are we going to do if each person have 61 square meters,
Do you think?
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You are talking about land that people have paid for. I'm talking about land that was stollen from people.
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somaartakeit
@DJWinnerSOLUTIONS
DJWinner
"It is lie that the land was taken away from black people? And that it is still not returned?" proof that anc comrades don't read and that debate is wasted on them, MC already sent you a link breaking down how much has been redistributed to date, did you not read he non-reader.
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DJWinner
SOLUTIONSDJWinner
It is lie that the land was taken away from black people? And that it is still not returned?..
Thank you for confirming,
Confused
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Can't you see that there is a spell check error there? Think!
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DJWinner
somaartakeit@DJWinner
SOLUTIONS
DJWinner
"It is lie that the land was taken away from black people? And that it is still not returned?" proof that anc comrades don't read and that debate is wasted on them, MC already sent you a link breaking down how much has been redistributed to date, did you not read he non-reader.
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Atleast you noticed that there is spell check error. You see what I was trying to say...
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerYou are talking about land that people have paid for. I'm talking about land that was stollen from people.
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Are we still on this, you have been proven wrong over and over again, are you julias or zuma,
you know what to do with the [24]
http://www.property[24].com/articles/99-of-gauteng-land-claims-settled/10572
southafrica.info/about/social/land-010808.htm#ixzz1zjm6T0lg
Can we get over this now, Sheeze, are you also a 35 year old calling yourself a youth.
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somaartakeit
DJ do you really not feel ashamed to show yourself up as a fool? yoo sometimes I really wish you were white so that I can blame them for you being stupid, now I just can't blame them I have to sadly accept that my black brother is foolish beyond redemption.Report Abuse
DJWinner
@NomdeGuerre...you can't hold on to someone's property and say it is because he is not educated.Report Abuse
SOLUTIONS
DJWinnerCan't you see that there is a spell check error there? Think!
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Can you think that it was sarcasm (Think little boy, THINK!!!)
are you also 35 and still see yourself as a youth.
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somaartakeit
@SOLUTIONS LOVL what is worse he claims to have a degree, I suppose its a degree on stone throwing or burning text books, lolReport Abuse
somaartakeit
@DJWinner@NomdeGuerre...you can't hold on to someone's property and say it is because he is not educated.
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ROTFLOVL did you come up with this one all by yourself? *wipes tears from eyes*
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DJWinner
somaartakeitDJ do you really not feel ashamed to show yourself up as a fool? yoo sometimes I really wish you were white so that I can blame them for you being stupid, now I just can't blame them I have to sadly accept that my black brother is foolish beyond redemption.
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Well, that is your opinion.
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SOLUTIONS
somaartakeit@SOLUTIONS LOVL what is worse he claims to have a degree, I suppose its a degree on stone throwing or burning text books, lol
Lol, I can't understand that someone wants to be so thick, luckily not all people THINK his way, lol, or think to think his way, or thinking their thinking facts, or ..... I don't know, this thinking way of DJ is making me tired.
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somaartakeit
@Solutions ROTFLOVL I need to get some water my stomach sides are sore, I have never seen anything like this before in my life...Report Abuse
DJWinner
@SOLUTIONS...Those small articles you referring me to still do not change the fact the land has to be returned to people. These issues will not go away.Report Abuse
NomdeGuerre
@NomdeGuerre...you can't hold on to someone's property and say it is because he is not educated.So you would rather take a productive farm supporting hundreds of families and give it to someone to has very little chance of success. In a short time they will be as poor as they were and there will be a whole lot of new people dependant on the government for handouts. That makes no sense. If you don't believe that happens go and look at the farm land outside Escort a huge citrus producing area has been turned into a dust bowl and all the infrastructure has been destroyed and thousands of people lost there jobs.
This helping to create poverty not reducing it ?
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DJWinner
@NomdeGuerre...It is his property. No way one can justify the stealing.@somaartakeit...Wipe your eye all you want, Mbeki is not coming back.
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somaartakeit
@DJ honestly and I say this in as nicest possible way, if I was you I would stop commenting now, cause you left no doubts in our mind that you are not the sharpest tool in the box, really must you expose yourself so outrageously? with every comment you sound more like zuma, and what is worse like you he has no clue how much he is talking himself into a hole and is seeking second term and believes he deserves it, I often wonder where does the anc get ppl like you *SMH*Report Abuse
SOLUTIONS
DJWinner@SOLUTIONS...Those small articles you referring me to still do not change the fact the land has to be returned to people. These issues will not go away.
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Those articles shows you that the land has been returned, What articles did you read?
This was in 2008
There was a total of 3 346 outstanding claims of which 1 359 was in KZN. There was a total of 76 506 settled restitution claims from 1995 to date. A total of 2.8m ha had been approved for acquisition of which 979 921 ha had been transferred into the hands of claimant communities and the state. Grants expended since 1995 till the present amounted to R4, 233, 451,032.93. There were 152 land claim dispute cases in court with the most in KZN.
pmg.org.za/report/20120207-department-rural-development-and-land-reform-special-investigative-un
Which part do you not understand, please explain, try to THINK!!!
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DJWinner
In Closing:People are so racist and tribalist in this country. It will take more than just this simple talk to get people together. I mean, the majority of land and economy are still in the hands of white of males. Black people remain poor and whites contunue to get richer. This issue has to be addressed for a racial unity. As for a tribalism, people don't travel in South Africa. Sotho people don't go to Eastern Cape and KZN, while EC and KZN don't go to Sotho dominated provinces. So, people don't understand each other. There are people in KZN who still can't distinguish between a Sotho, Nigerian or Venda. To them, they all sound the same.
@All...I'm going to a meeting. We will continue to talk about these things.
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinner@NomdeGuerre...It is his property. No way one can justify the stealing.
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Let 1000's die of hunger and poverty, but at least they got their land back. This kind of THINKING is showing the incapability of THINKING.
Well done DJ, I think you are the first brainless person who is able to use a computer.
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NomdeGuerre
DJWinner@NomdeGuerre...It is his property. No way one can justify the stealing
Why do you think an ANC politician who's has no ancestral claim to land is entitled to take it anyway destroy what is there (and destroy a lot of local peoples lives while doing this) and then walk away because it is too much work to manage a farm.
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SOLUTIONS
DJWinner
In Closing:
People are so racist and tribalist in this country. It will take more than just this simple talk to get people together. I mean, the majority of land and economy are still in the hands of white of males. Black people remain poor and whites contunue to get richer. This issue has to be addressed for a racial unity. As for a tribalism, people don't travel in South Africa. Sotho people don't go to Eastern Cape and KZN, while EC and KZN don't go to Sotho dominated provinces. So, people don't understand each other. There are people in KZN who still can't distinguish between a Sotho, Nigerian or Venda. To them, they all sound the same.
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Combined black wealth is more than the combined white wealth.
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Maezizsto4Sure
SomaRRRRete-Are you still here?Report Abuse
somaartakeit
hey DJ and other zumanoids this one is for you mate, malema check-mating in a rally in Rustenburg,http://mg.co.za/article/2012-07-04-juju-tells-us-what-he-really-thinks-of-zuma
One gotta love malema's fighting spirit, he really fights like a wounded soldier who has nothing more to lose,
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somaartakeit
the fight to Manguang is going to be the bloodiest fight we've ever seen and I love it that zuma is getting his just rewards, for records I don't agree with malema politically but on the stuff he says about zuma he is so on the money. I also like that in the M&G article he takes no hostages, now zuma knows how it must felt for Helen Zille when he unleashed malema on her, karma is a biaatch!!!Report Abuse
SOLUTIONS
Somaar, i am actually don't know if I want Kgalema Motlanthe as president as well.Maybe zipper must stay and hopefully anc only gets the 50% votes in 2014 or less
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Sleezy
Another National Crisis (ANC)...Report Abuse
somaartakeit
@Solutions if country's interests were taken to consideration, I don't think anyone in the anc is capable of being a proper leader cause it wld appear they are all indebted to other corrupts who later pull their strings, we need a fresh gov,but I like that Juju is using the opportunity of a 'non discussion on leadership succession' to deal with zuma in fact their little tussle is what makes SAn politics interesting and showing the whole world what a bunch of a social misfits are ruling over us.
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
somaartakeit - That stuff Malema has been saying of Zuma, most people with common sense have been saying about Zuma SINCE BEFORE THE ELECTIONS. Of course, we were smeared as 'impeerialists with agendas' etc.And Julius wonders why he's a f***ing scuuuumbag? Because he helped elect a corrupt and incompetent person into the highest seat of the country.
Well done ANC.
You f***ing suuuuck.
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WakeUpSouthAfrica
somaartakeit - Remember the leadership 'tussle' in the DA between Lindiwe and Trollop?Based on that alone, its not difficult to see which party should be leading. Just a pity apartheid and common sense stands in the way from people voting for the best of the country.
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kgansi
The Spear n Madam, wonder what they talk abt off the scenes; politics is just a mind's game period!Report Abuse
somaartakeit
@WakeUpSA when many said the things that he says now, they were called coconuts, racists, tea girls etc now he is saying same things.... anyway its nice that he has also adopted sensible reasoning at last, dictator zuma must b gobsmacked and powerless cause he can't do anything to silence malema now, he is a free agent doing and saying what he wants, see miracles happens once you are outside the anc, one can speak their mind out independently without fear or favour, lol it shows that democracy only happens outside anc, also when I used to be anc supporter I spoke alongside party lines till I discovered my own voice (freedom),I know that as a country we were shortchanged on the zuma presidency deal but at least now he realises his mistakes and has apologised about them, for me that is good enough, I just hope that anc leaders will help groom him to become a responsible person.
As for fight btwn Trollip and Lindiwe, you know nobody ever accused anc leaders of having sophistry or class, we shld cut these guys some slack they lived in the bushes (Angola, Tanzania etc) for too long doing no brainer stuff just like dinosaurs and occasionally mounting female comrades for the privilege of sending them to developed countries and in Russia to study.
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somaartakeit
@Kgansi what do you imagine they possibly speak about? I think any self respecting woman would be hard pressed to find themselves 'behind the scenes' with country's number one pervert and I believe Helen Zille has enough common sense to not put herself in harms way, like Michelle Obama when she came to SA she ensured to avoid the perv instead she chose to hang out with MamGraca, I am sure when got to SA the USA embassy staff in SA ensured she has a speed-dial number just in case zuma tries to jive hlokoloza with her.Report Abuse
WakeUpSouthAfrica
somaartakeit - Now we just need Malema's corruption to catch up with him. I'll never respect that tw@t. You know why the scorpions/sars havent nailed him yet? Because Zuma is holding the evidence, and waiting for a time to use it as a flytrap. Where is our public protector with her findings?Report Abuse
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