THE Azanian People's Organisation's youth league has called on former president Nelson Mandela to apologise to the nation "before he dies" for selling out black people's struggle.
Yes let him apologise.I am ANC member,but i agree with AZAPO on this point.Our intial aims was to grab our land and economy to black people,but the blacks are still struggling and are facing freedom trauma. Juju has all correct. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
lindsay
yagagagagagaggagga
well at least now we know you Amukelani before this you were faceless but then people will do anything to be noticed Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Stumaeza
Please AZAPO not again...last week it was your comments on Bafunny Bafunny & now it's da Old Man! Are you seeking attention or what? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Secretary
Tata apologise without fear or favour. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sboro
No wonder organisations such AZAPO have never risen above themeselves - they are very much into academic hairy fairy stuff, theorising, intellectaulizing and hair-splitting, thus losing grassroot understanding and support. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
MommaC
Do the other 6 members of Azapo YL agree with him?
I am sick of these various YL puppies who keep yapping about issues that they are clueless about.
Let him apologise he sold us by agreeing to power sharing. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Bra_NeatDick
I think Mandela should repent to god before he dies . I would like to see him dying a christian. (dats about more politically correct) Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Stumaeza
Secretary
Yes let him apologise.I am ANC member,but i agree with AZAPO on this point.Our intial aims was to grab our land and economy to black people,but the blacks are still struggling and are facing freedom trauma. Juju has all correct.
@Secretary
How were you planning to grab your land & economy? not all the blacks are struggling & even white people are struggling this days. Juju is living large bcos of Mandela...
Thank you for speaking the truth Amukelani.
Truth hurts but it heals Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Phunyukabemphethe
Seeking for public stunt infact what a crap is Ngobeni talking about, we do not covet anything from any nation except their respect Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Chresmo
@ all wu r against what AZAPO is saying... what did mandela's much fought freedom has done for the current youth? we thot everything was going to b free angithi, ya'll are now complaining abou the Water and Electricity nw e-tolls, i waited 4 to long 2 hear the truth 4rm Mandela, We are still ruled by whites and mandela knew they are going to rule 4evr maan NXA.. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
It's too late brothers we just have to live with it. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Naivegirl
So now it is Mandela's fault that the ANC cannot deliver. This country is becoming a circus with too many clowns. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sasafrican
Oh azapo ,no wonder you cant even garner 2% support,go join anc for freebies bra,some of us are ok working for a living,its 18years now and even if the ruling party can grab all the land in the world ngeke uneke nencane ,it will all be for them,so plz Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Bdoobs
This is the truest thing I have read in years. Tata sold us for a Noble Peace Prize and thats the reason for the service dilevery demonstration and the lack of service dilevery. Our constitution favour the caucasians while it oppresses the Africans. Thanks for nothing Mandela. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
PleaseGetReal1
Secretary
Yes let him apologise.I am ANC member,but i agree with AZAPO on this point.Our intial aims was to grab our land and economy to black people,but the blacks are still struggling and are facing freedom trauma. Juju has all correct.
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Dude, people in S.A is living in poverty because they managed in 18 years to expand by more than 12 million people, mothers and fathers who does not have jobs are making children in a country where the government is raiding the coffers and instead of creating jobs, more people are losing jobs. So if people are still struggling they must look in the mirror or ask their parents, WHY? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
PleaseGetReal1
Naivegirl
So now it is Mandela's fault that the ANC cannot deliver. This country is becoming a circus with too many clowns.
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that is unfortunately the way, blame blame blame, but never seeing the 3 fingers pointing back when pointing at someone else. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Insider
White people made him a world icon because he protected their interests.
Chris Hani was against that compromise
"Azanian People's Organisation's youth league" what a peace of sh!t is this? I only know of one youth league in this country which is ANCYL and the rest are mickey mouse. This one too seek publicity and recognition so a apeal to the ANC to never respond to this palooka to make him and his mickey mouse league famous. Why were they quiet all along hey???
This guy is clueless - the "grab back" is indeed going on. But he is losing out because he spends too much time in the shebeen and is on the wrong train where they do not have access to the gravy. Become an ANC member and benefit now bro. Otherwise you will have to be grabbing back from privileged black people and not white people. It is more difficult to do. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Jacobus
Some people are just imprudent and haughty, why ain't they just appreciate what the old man has done for us. They think 27 years behind bars is pap n vlais. for me thats just bul*********sht. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Phunyukabemphethe
@Chresmo
Mandela does not have direct influence in whatsoever bullshit is occurring currently Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
KeRataBasadi
An old man I knew always said, anyone thats revered by the enemy, should not be trusted. But I cannot blame Mandela for basic services not being delivered to the masses, rampant corruption, he gave us Mbeki who at hindsight was/is the most intelligent leader to date and we reversed it by taking a shower with a spear. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Socrates
@Insider..White people made him a world icon because he protected their interests.
Chris Hani was against that compromise
I agree with you on this one, Chris was not going to compromise and sell black people,Chris exuded the same resistance from the likes of the most revered struggle icon Robert Sobukwe, who spend more years in jail than Mandela and was not willing to be bought as the latter was Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Bumboklaat
WTF!? Azapo like PAC are like a bunch of ny@ope smoking monkeys! they always use ridiculous tactics to gain publicity! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Naivegirl
@Bdoobs
Are you really that stupid? So you would've rather fought the old SA army, all their fire power, police and all citizens in a civil war than take the country for yourself with peace. What do you think the outcome of that would've been? FFS grow some F8dfing brain cells please.
You took South Africa - power of more than two thirds to do as you please - AND LOOK WHAT YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED?
Lastly - everyone is yapping about 80% of land in white hands. Do you know how stupid this statement is? Since 1996 the deeds office has never registered any deed in catagory of race. That means that no one in South Africa knows how much land is in white and black hands.
Bdoobs
This is the truest thing I have read in years. Tata sold us for a Noble Peace Prize and thats the reason for the service dilevery demonstration and the lack of service dilevery. Our constitution favour the caucasians while it oppresses the Africans. Thanks for nothing Mandela.
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Nelson Mandela did not want the countries economy to crash and let 1000's of his own people die of hunger like in Zimbabwe. I think he was a bit, no not a bit, much more clued up and caring about the people of SA than what you could get in your few brain cells. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Mothata
How does he know that Mandela is going to die before him. Maybe he must apologise to Mandela for this statement before either of them dies. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
truthhurt
I would like to speak on behalf of Mr RN Mandela AKA Tata.
I did what i had to do at that time, things could have been much worse for South Africa, so whoever feels like i sold them out i am truelly sorry, and if that is not enough than you can go to the nearest e- toll gantrie and go swing on it, i gave all i could give South Africa. Report Abuse
this fu**er (Amukelani) should apologise to Mandela. Mandela never acted in a personal capacity, if there is any apology, it should come from everyone who participated in CODESA.
@ Amukelani, secret meetings how did you find out those meetings if they were "secret". you just desperate. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Shredder
I remember someone here on the Sowetan blog say the same thing. @tpaz, was it you? ☺ Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sasafrican
@ Chresmo,free???OMG ,grow up ,nothing is free on mother earth,your beloved ANC has taken what is left,you'll have to grab from the few blacks who were lucky to have a dip in the gravy train,jeeeez whites are struggling like most of us,leave them be Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Mr_President
Jacobus
Some people are just imprudent and haughty, why ain't they just appreciate what the old man has done for us. They think 27 years behind bars is pap n vlais. for me thats just bul*********sht.
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The very same so called Amukelani doesn't even have proof of what he is saying but only reading about it, where was he when those talks took place? I bet even his mother was not born when Mandela was serving time in jail for him to get the opportunity to emit that fart he has just emited on this paper. Amukelani is in fact a see out himself period....
@Mothata precisely my point how does he know his going to die soon......it is statement like this that get people killed, has this boy not yet read the word of scripture u can not curse what God has blessed. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Shredder
@Chresmo - we thot everything was going to b free angithi,
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No, no, no. You thought everything was going to be free. Where do you think you are, paradise? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Milaneshu
Only the truth shall set you free...to understand this better watch IN TIME. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
ISMORNACHIES8
@Sowetan,
Block this article please !!! Report Abuse
Its our youth culture and tradition to mourn, complain, demand, blame, throw tantrum, expect the country to do everything for us while we have unprotected sex, making babies, do not go to school, do not take responsibility, do not participate,not offer any contribution, litter, lack ideas and creativity.
Viva laziness viva! Amandla easy life amandla! Phambili ne blame game phambili! Qina ma spoil brats qina! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Tsar-Rasputin
Tjo!! Bana ba Azapo a bana molao, hence Azapo is performing poorly during elections Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Papgat
ANC is doing the right thing for not responding to a drunker like Ngobeni, because by doing that it will be glorifing a stuperd statement by so called AZAPO youthless league. People should remember that this are the statement made by people who don`t have directions. How can Mandela stays in prison for 27 years for just for selling black and white people. At that time it was not appropriate to talk about the land issues since that will cause a civil war in the country. So the transition was to develop a constitution that will satisfy both the parties, meaning a win-win situation, not a loso-win or lose-lose situation as that will drive a country in civil war. So Mandela and other people are not sell out as claim by uneducated youthless AZAPO. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Cowgirl
ISMORNACHIES8
That will amount to censorship but i think i get were you are coming from with that suggestion, this article infuriated me so much.
@SOWETAN
this is so offensive to us,pls understand!whoever made this staements could get killed,dont u understand..this is our Tata who is now on his sick bed ,old tired and deserve RESPECT!pls i am very offende,this so sensitive.Tata is my everything and most of us wish he could get younger and come to lead us again.I AM SO ANGRY. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Dandan
Secretary
Yes let him apologise.I am ANC member,but i agree with AZAPO on this point.Our intial aims was to grab our land and economy to black people,but the blacks are still struggling and are facing freedom trauma. Juju has all correct.
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in 2004 the anc got 2/3 majority why it was nt necessary for evry bla.ck men to realise that the Const has to be changed where were you and Ngobeni you are very good to talk nothing to do Report Abuse
What do these youngsters know about the situation around 1994 ? Mandelas did not act on his own, the whole ANC leadership stood behind him in the negotiations at Kempton Park. The uneducated young brats are not even worthy of mentioning Mandela's name, they should be told to shut the f up.
1994 brought democracy and a constitutional order, with reasonable affirmative action and land restitution measures specifically built in. It is simply a wuestion of implementing those measures efficiently and fairly, in a healthy econo9mic climate, and the previously oppressed will start to see the fruits of liberation. The problem is that this ANC government is not up to the task, the problem is not the 1994 settlement. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
lamza
This guy is either was sitting next to hearter or else he was honey wen he was making such a statement..He can say watever he wants to say because of the freedom which was gained through this soldier(s)..where was his grandfather when Mandela and the other crews where in jail after fighting for frredom he is exercising 2day...He needs a shambok...O totetjwe struu..u vukelwe... Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
fizo
Let him apologise, they did sell us to the whites...we all see, they still have portion of our wealth. we still bag them to feed our stomach Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
truthhurt
NGUVANGUVA
Where there's Smoke There's Fire
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So what are you trying to say? I think the smoke is coming from your head! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
somaartakeit
@Secretary - LoL except for the anc leaders now like Zim leaders own the land whilst the masses are kept alive on a life saving social grant drip so they can make it to the polls and keep them fat cats well in the trough whilst majority of them live like peasants,
as for Azapo call, I don't know whether to laugh or cry, but I think its too simplistic to blame only Mandela when he is not the ONLY leader of the anc, what about Ramaphosas, Sexwale, Zuma's who are all multimillionaires? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Jelly
It is very disturbing 2 note dt de so called azapooo yl sik political publicity in a very un4tunate way..al along dey hv been dead,n now dey try 2 shw up with deir nonsensical sentiment abt our HERO.
One can judge 4rm deir sentiments dt dey lack political maturity and dy knw nothing abt revolution.
our heroes have fought 4 freedom,dey dd der best 2 bring abt de democracy we r enjoyin 2 day..
it is 4 u 2 carry on de struggle 4 economic freedom n wteva,without plying a blame game..
wt hs azapo yl done so far 4 de youth of dis country...?
is not a time 2 blame de past but a time 2 reflect on de past n carry on 2 de future generation..
dey shld b ashamed of such comments if only dey knew n understood de road to democracy.. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
DjEp
Mr.Ngobeni, Mlambya, mburhi you are a disgrace to yourself. Mandela is no Angel but his good work exceed by far the hard decisions they made then.
Sometime when you propose a girl, not ka Facebook you will agree if she asked can you go naked the whole day for me? all you are doing is trying to win something in her and once you have it, she can kiss her elbow. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
GLAVA
"We must teach the young the truth in the face of such distortion. Speaking truth to power is today the best service we can give those who died so that we may live.
We need to ask why the names of Tsietsi Mashinini and Khotso Seatlholo are not celebrated as the leaders of the uprising.
The young must be taught why both these amazing young people, who shook the foundations of white rule, refused to join the ANC in exile or on Robben Island and died members of Biko's Black Consciousness Movement?
I had the privilege of sharing a house with Seatlholo after his period on Robben Island. He understood the Kempton Park negotiations as a sell-out solution to rescue white capital and for the few in power, and that such a democracy would continue the suffering of the black majority." qoute Andile Mngxtama
fizo
Let him apologise, they did sell us to the whites...we all see, they still have portion of our wealth. we still bag them to feed our stomach
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do you think wealth just fall out of the air, or do you think it comes form hard work, go and ask any rich black or white man with their own business where that money comes from, hard work, tests, fails and success. If you want wealth, work for it. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
snazz
Yoh that kick in the balls to the old man. Tata did have does secret talks but he does but he does not deserve to be cursed like that. Rest In Peace to Robert Sobukwe Report Abuse
AZAPO idiots at their best, apologize for what f@#k reason. How is that going to change our current rotten state in South Africa. Land grabbing and all that bullsh&*t will result in this country becoming another Zimbabwe. Like really how stupid are these wannabe politicians. In order for this country to be a better place we need to work in harmony, black&white. Although i think this is going to take years because judging from many comments about this article, some people need a reality check! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Cowgirl
@GLAVA
It is interesting how the youth always praise Tsietsi Mashinini for his role in the liberation struggle and in the same breathe forget to metion the damage he caused the movement while he was in Nigeria...maybe it would benefit others to really learn the truth about Tsietsi Mashinini while in exile before his death.
@Bdoobs
go ask your grandparents to apologise for not doing anything during the struugle while Tata gave up his family and kids to be slaughtered in order for u to get the job u now have and sitting infront of the cp to type rubbish. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Oshmax
The thinking process is flawed. Mandela delivered a structure for all to thrive in. The ANC should have made the most of the opportunities presented, but they somehow got lost in corruption, cadre deployment, self interest etc.. Dont blame Mandela for that. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
PORQUENOMEQUIERES
@breaking
Are u lost wena?do we care what u think. Report Abuse
fizo
Let him apologise, they did sell us to the whites...we all see, they still have portion of our wealth. we still bag them to feed our stomach......................................................back to school Fizo asseblief,arent you tired of smoking dat ish?????Mandela is no saint and so are you,@ least now you have access to most things, Mandela nd your grandparents never had a chance ,just be grateful and let tata enjoy his life,He did what he thought was best and i bet you 99% of black south africans agree Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Oshmax
I also think the youth is more sophisticated than assumed by some of their "leaders". The "leaders" continue to take a hard non-sensical , destructive line. I think the youth of today see through that. They see succesful black people, and are beginning to form impressions of what makes them succesful.
The destructive , moronic pursuit of vengeance, may ring true for some, but not, I think for the majority. These "leaders" should not underestimate the newfound sophistication of our youth. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
SexyAngel
Amukelani - At least he did not sit on his backside and pray that things fall into place. He "negotiated", like you rightfully said, and fought for what he believed was right. If you feel it doesn't work for you, then get up and do something about it, instead of blaming those who tried. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Cowgirl
@breaking
Hopefully you enjoyed your two minutes of fame....! besides that's the only way you can make yourself relevant these days.....hhhhhhhhahahahahahah, your tea lady and garden boy aren't giving you enough attention at home?
Godday baas/madam!....
Signed: black sister who has nothing but love for the schizophrenic whitey. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
cocolucho
@all mornings.
These fools should just shut up and sit down. They know nothing about the struggle, they only know how to create a struggle for themselves. Grow up and learn to do things for yourself thats the only way that your struggle will end...and to think that I was actually thinking of voting for them next election,just lost my vote....anyone know of other parties to vote for? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
DA-DBN-GUY
Are AZAPO still around????
Mandela did not sell out the blacks it is the current anc leadership under the shower head that has sold out the country as a whole! Policies are in place to rectify the ills of the past but the anc has failed to implement and steer the policies efficiently and in some cases at all!!!! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
SexyS411
Amukelani you Bloody fool,What have you done to contributed to this country?All u do is Nyhweeeeeee,You're now free to say such things because of Nelson Mandela
Please just grow up and stop acting like a fool and PLEASE respect Tata,and ''IF'' he's gonna die before you die,let him enjoy his last moments on Earth,UNLIKE you he never enjoyed his youth,
Just SHUT UP
This is not an accident it is a man-made thing and can be removed by the actions of human beings. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
truthhurt
NGUVANGUVA
@truthhurt Drugs are bad small boy
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I want a street fight with you, then we will see who is a small boy. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sir.JT
but honestly is it Mandela's fault that most blacks don't want to work hard to earn? That's Adam's fault and God punished us for it. So now, all we can do is study and work hard. the problem with our youth this days is that they opt for the simplest route and think they'll get rich quickly and all that. yes Politically you can insult bo Mandela le bo Zuma for fellow politicians to think u r tough and clever and you'll be given a top position for talking nonsense like Malema. nxa.
But as for this clown, i bet he doesn't even have a girlfriend. *Sit down* Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
PORQUENOMEQUIERES
@Vivla
thanks girl.to be honest ,ke kwatile baby girl....I LOVE TATA WITH ALL MY HEART, the day God takes him away will be the saddest day of my life,he did what he could.im so angry ...sobono sa ka sea tjhesa mona mo keleng. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
MGEEZ
Leave the old men alone!!! Why wait until he is 94 yrs old? The men was hear all along for crying out loud and A.z.apo never raised this matter whilst he had all his faculties to debate this matter with them. Your timing is questionable Speaking evil of dignitaries does not qualify you as one!!! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Cowgirl
@RobinH
You know some people come here just to stir the pot....i am actually beating myself up for having fallen for that lame attempt by that idiot....i'm having a rough day and some fool almost causes me to pop a vein.
@PORQUENOMEQUIERES we have something in common,I love Tata. I even share a birth date with him, which (mind you) I flaunt with pride Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
PleaseGetReal1
Oshmax
The thinking process is flawed. Mandela delivered a structure for all to thrive in. The ANC should have made the most of the opportunities presented, but they somehow got lost in corruption, cadre deployment, self interest etc.. Dont blame Mandela for that.
Well Said,
Breaking is a ancyl kid who is trying to flame up the blog, ignore him. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Shaangrito
Amukelani what are you smoking combrade? wahi poliya maan sies!!! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
RobinH
Cowgirl: Sure. I understand. But as a paleface who worked hard "in the struggle" I feel seriously aggrieved by such racism from people who happen to share my paler pigmentation, and the sheer absurd arrogance with which they make truly disgusting pronouncements in the name of my culture and people, a vast number of whom share my commitment to a non-racial, liberated South Africa, free from oppression by wealth or race or gender. I feel it almost my duty to tear them to shreds, as one statement like that unfortunately resonates with those less sophisticated than you or I, and therefore creates a skewed and sick opinion of me and my people. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
MGEEZ
DA-DBN-GUY
Are AZAPO still around????
Mandela did not sell out the blacks it is the current anc leadership under the shower head that has sold out the country as a whole! Policies are in place to rectify the ills of the past but the anc has failed to implement and steer the policies efficiently and in some cases at all!!!!
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Does is it really matter who sold who out? Why are people not removing the ruling party if they are unhappy about it? The truth is that whether we like it or not the ANC is a party runned by a collective; just like communist China (I hope you get what I mean) and the majority of our people are very happy to have them in power because they believe it's their time to eat!!!! Said but real. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
lerotse
Most of people who are commeting here are those who were born/became conciouse after 1994. Read the process of "Negotiated Settlement " the so called CODESA and find out why Mandela went on to negotiate whilst t PAC and AZAPO went out of negotiations.
Ask why did he opt to go on .Its because there was a bargain ."YOU LEAVE US WITH WHAT WE HAVE NOW (LAND) AND YOU GO TO PARLIAMENT ,STAY IN TOWN AND YOUR KID GO TO "MODEL C SCHOOLS WITH OURS".This was enough for him to say its fine .There are lot of african countries that were independent before SA .Why him and de klerk can be given the noble peace what ever. Its because he saved the white majority by giving them the most important thing in every citizens life LAND .Were in Europe can you have Africans own hectors and hectors of land . Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
PORQUENOMEQUIERES
@vivla
you are so blessed to be born on the same day with TATA,I wish i was ,im so jealous Congrats girl!!!! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Insider
You can try in vain to hide the truth, it can take years, decades and even centuries but eventually it will come out. God is great all the time. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Oshmax
LEROTSE
Oh dear, blacks in Europe can own land, as much as they wish, and they do. But that's not the issue. The issue is that government has not delivered on an opportunity Mandela so carefully crafted in the interests of all of us.
Some people have a lot of time in their hands. I respect the ANC for not replying to this rubbish Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
CHANGEISGOOD
THE TRUTH HURTS
@LEROTSE, YOU ARE 100% CORRECT MY FRIEND, WE ALSO LOVE TATA BUT WE MUST NOT LET OUR EMOTIONS TO CONTROL OUR JUDGEMENT,
CODESA CONCLUSION\AGREEMENT WAS NOT MADE PUBLIC DUE TO THE SOLD BLACKS.
DO YOU ALL REMEBER WHEN SHIVHAMBU ATTACKED CYRIL RAMAPHOSA ABOUT BEING A SELL OUT? HE WAS ONE THE NEGOTIATORS.
OVERALL PPL JUST TALK WITHOUT FACT.
THE TRUTH DAMN HURTS, TATA SOLD US, THATS THE REASON MOST OF BLACK STILL LIVE IN POVERTY & THE WHITES STILL ENJOY THE RESOURCES & WE WORK FOR THEM & MAKE THEM RICHER EVERY YEAR.
Lesson.1: Here's lesson two for you. Responding to racism with racism is also racism. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
SAMETHING
AZAPO YL & ANC YL have shown how unhappy they are with the current economic situation.
The mass too on the ground have shown how unhappy through service delivery protests.
So are we all gonna pretend everything is okay here?
Are the minority & the handfull senior ANC leaders will continue to be ignorant too?
It is not okay here. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Moriskie
Some people need to think before the can speak, how did Madiba sell us out. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
lerotse
Oshmax u r not honest to yourself .Were in Europe do an African person own land like what we see when driving on every road in SA. Go to Freestate,limpopo ,Mpumalanga ,Northern Cape <westernCape wine lands .All the vast land is owned by white .They even own more land than they did during aparthein .Its because ANC had no policy on every department of governance when they take over. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT .THIS IS FOR THE FUTURE OF MY AND YOUR KIDS . Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
RobinH
Samething: Sure, it's not okay here. But what has that got to do with demanding that Mandela apologise? THINK! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
PleaseGetReal1
CHANGEISGOOD
THE TRUTH DAMN HURTS, TATA SOLD US, THATS THE REASON MOST OF BLACK STILL LIVE IN POVERTY & THE WHITES STILL ENJOY THE RESOURCES & WE WORK FOR THEM & MAKE THEM RICHER EVERY YEAR.
The reason is that there is 12 million extra people in SA since 94, does not help to point fingers at anyone when people are breeding like rabbits who is unemployed and still want to put the blame for poverty somewhere else. WAKE THE F UP YOU IMBECILE. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Oshmax
CHANGEISGOOD
I cant believe that you write nonsense like this. You must be a very bitter man. I hope you dont teach your children this. Let them grow up and achieve all they want to and can. That is mandela's legacy. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Cowgirl
I wish people could stop writting in CAPS lock as that is plain rude....hope you catch my drift! not holding my breathe though as that probably flew over that brick you might call a head.
I would like to pose a question to all those who feel that Mandela sold us out....how would you have liked the ANC to have handled the negotiations?...note i mentioned the ANC and not Mandela as he was not the only one who was negotiating a resolution....most of you lack understanding of politics and the impact of other alternatives had they decided to entertain any. It becomes pointless in debating/discussing anything with you lot cause you are too ignorant to comprehend anything...
Damn bornfrees who have no intentions of understanding their history and just repeat what their sheeben counterparts spew on their drinking spree...read and learn domkops! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
rasefatee
This boy is Amukelan disrespectfu.l just like juju they don’t consider age difference when they open their big mouth full of shiit where was he in 1986 blooody small boy Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
RobinH
Cowgirl: I truly admire your thinking on this issue. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
NGUVANGUVA
@truthhurt Your problem is this: You got two Brains the one is Lost the other is Out looking for it!!!
You so jajarag that's what i noticed - (You stup1d M0nkey) Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
MommaC
One of the biggest problems our 'youth' have is ignorance. If they could go to a country that has been (or is) in the grip of civil war, they wouldn't make these foolish statements, Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
scapiso
AZAPO go to hell with your bull sh**t. You have a freedom of speech coz of this old man just appreciate you looser comrades Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
THUTLWANE
OKAY! this is very sensitive and have all made our minds about utata. yes he is a political hero but what if ther is some truth in what this guyz are sying? come to think about it who knows what was agreed on during CORDESSA?( I am not sure of the spelling there). I am just clarifying because some people are always looking for mistakes.
One can ask themselfs questions like, If ground roots people like me can see the need for a better education system, why cant our leaders see that? The economic imbalance is clear to the man on the street are you telling me that still our leaders are blind to that as well? The youth league speaks of nationalisation of mine and people get expulsion. Something is fishy. You do not spend 27 yrs of your in prison and achieve so less. Our struggle is only beneficiary to the minority and that is a fact. All the follen african countries had something to do with what thier leaders has agreed to during negitiations. It is clear we are next. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
RobinH
Lesson.1: Ja ja. And the same to you. Have a wonderful day. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
LESSON.1
@RobinH = AKA Robin Highland
Have a wonderful day too and dont forget to brush your teeth next time Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Cowgirl
@RobinH
It truly upsets me to think that there are people amongst us who believe that a civil war would have been a solution, their argument is that we should have taken up arms for our freedom..what they lack to understand is that there are NO WINNERS in war, can you imagine where we would have been as a country had they entertained the beliefs of Chris Hani and Joe Slove during those negotiations.
These fools need to look around Africa to see the results of a war, which in most cases would have been avoided had people decided to put their massive EGO's aside and do what is beneficial for the people.
I command those who were part of those negotiations for having had the courage to see beyond their selfish needs and putting the people of the Republic first, those who were negotiating set us apart from the rest of the Continent and for that i am eternally grateful...sacrifices had to be made which is why it was called a NEGOTIATION.
Oh on another note...these lazy people need to get off their behinds and start doing things for themselves and stop expecting handouts cause that seems to be the main reason why they are pissed off with the current status...they expected things to fall from the sky....aint going to happen lazy bums.
Get up and do it for yourself or suffer the consequences of being lazy....the entitlement mentality is not going to get you far in this life my lazy friends.
No amount of insults or character assisnation will suffice but truth is a bitter pill sometimes.Who knows abt "Talks about Talks" meeting ? Who knows or where are the Groote Schuur minutes ? Especially to amavarara on this blog if you can answer!! Do you know what Tambo saud to Mandela when they met for the first time? Probably since the day Mandela was incacerated at RobbenIlsand the devil\NP was tempting him to denounce violent armed struggle !! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
SharpSharp
Azapo wanted to remind us that they are still exist this is far from being serious....Just a JOKE. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
MarryMe
Well now people want Mana to fall from heaven. How much can one man do. Is it not enough? I support those who say the struggle goes on. The man has done his part, somebody take over and leave the old man alone to enjoy the little time he has lefft on this world. Even Jesus did not do everything, he sent the Holy Spirit to continue were he left off. Come on now!! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Candyboy
@Cowgirl
I love you....almost wrote that in CAPS.....*blowing kisses* Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Secretary
If Tata does not apologise in this one,they should take him back to Roben-iland to rot nicely in there. We must actually confiscate the land of our fore fathers from our well known thiefs(whites).Mandela entered in secret talks and agreed on a compromised constitution. We will be happy even if we can get a secret apology...... Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Tasto
Ppl its so serouis even the ruling party is butt of the joke in drinking circles, called managers not rulers of this country with political office no political power(busy want to change constitution daily) and no economic power except few co-opted blacks & Chacellor House even the black billionares are not taken serouisly because they did not sweat for their wealth!! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Zezinho
The system failed to let us get involved only a selected few such as BEE. The system needs to change. You can not hop up and down with your blame game because it won’t help us with anything. What we need is a solution to the crisis not blame. That is our current challenge as Mzansi, we are busy pointing fingers instead of looking for solutions. You can not just say, I want economic participation while you are sitting at the corner and doing nothing about your development.
Come up with something concrete maybe I will listen to you because what you just said shows a lack of maturity and a lack of understanding.
You would have been forgiven if you had written that in CAPS cause i LOVE YOU TOO....kikikikikiki, people need to move away from the sheeben talk and use their own braincells to think for a change.
They are yet to come up with any alternatives as to what the ANC should have done instead of the current settlement, all they are good at is shooting from the hip about issues they know nothing about. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Shredder
@PleaseGetReal1 - The reason is that there is 12 million extra people in SA since 94, does not help to point fingers at anyone when people are breeding like rabbits
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You! Nxa!
Azapo got it right. How on earth can you suffer for 27 years in jail while black people are dying outside and do not compensate the lost souls by giving their items (LAND and COWS) back after your victory? We are suffering because of him (Tata). I do buy it fosek Tata!!! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
PleaseGetReal1
Shredder
You! Nxa!
I hope Nxa!, Yes Please get real, you are 100% right! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
Secretary - Do you want my PC too, because apparently I stole that from you too. Report Abuse
Why did you wait for all this years 18 and then you come up with your Kak story, AZAPO can go to hell Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
PleaseGetReal1
Sorry should have read,
Shredder
You! Nxa!
I hope Nxa!, means ,,, ,,,,Yes Please get real, you are 100% right! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
LESSON.1
@Secretary
Tata was born to rot in jail
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Heey you Chicken Licken waitress - did you just stole some1's Hot wings for your lunch ?
only ppl like you was born to rot in jail. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sasafrican
@Thutlwane,achieved so less,who exactly,arent billions wasted day in and day out by ANC,he spent 27 years and your beloved party 18 yrs into democracy destroying everything and everyone who dares differ with them,I say it again,let the man enjoy his life,wena nje u all who keeps blaming and blaming need to get a life Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Secretary
@S1nude1ty
The PC you are talking about is via the exchange of goods. You gave europeans our cows and they blocked your mouth with PC Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Quicktrick
children should be seen and not heard Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Cowgirl
Secretary
Azapo got it right. How on earth can you suffer for 27 years in jail while black people are dying outside and do not compensate the lost souls by giving their items (LAND and COWS) back after your victory? We are suffering because of him (Tata). I do buy it fosek Tata!!!
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Is that you breaking?
Some people never fail to amaze me...there is nothing as a free lunch skat! don't tell me you actually believed the election rhetoric in 94 which said...everything in the new South Africa will be free...that was just election talk boet.....even my 4 year old would have been able to understand that....you disappoint me! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
CHANGEISGOOD
@OSHMAX
I'm not bitter my friend. just saying something as it is my friend, the legacy you talking about will be pure bulls*-/t, we are talking fact here, and we are asking a questing what was the conclusion or agreemnt of CODESA?
Mandela & company had a freedom chater to aadhere to when negotiating for a new South Africa, some of you are talking about wars, it seems like you are derailing fron the the topic, that TATA sold us when negotiating, he was not alone, even Cyril Ramaphosa was company of the team.
all we asking was for better life for all of us who live in South Africa, we knew things must happen gradually but due to the constitution some other chnages can't take place
So please go & read the CODESA agreement.
even my boy Malema did not have the guts to call a spade a spade due to we all know it is a sensitive matter. please note we all love TATA for his participation in the strugle & we can't take away his legacy of fighting strugle.
@Cowgirl, "what they lack to understand is that there are NO WINNERS in war"
That's the whole point of such people since they have the shot hand of fortune they figure we might as well all loose, same as a successfull or rich person does not feel the need to share the countrie's wealth with others and that if one is in porverty then hard luck for them they must find thier way out of porverty, same as you believe such people are lazy as you also don't acknowladge thier up-hill struggle to escape the circle of porverty.
Mandela's is the world's sweet heart of the world as much as AZAPO might have a point it is too late for any apologies as most of those who were part of the collective then have passed away, it's now out of place for such a request. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Secretary
@Cowgirl
You are just a cow. How on earth will you ever feel proud with the truth. Tata should explain why after our victory we could not get our estate back and economy. White people robbed Tata and Tata spread the decease to all of us. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Candyboy
@Cowgirl
@Candyboy
You would have been forgiven if you had written that in CAPS cause i LOVE YOU TOO....kikikikikiki, people need to move away from the sheeben talk and use their own braincells to think for a change.
They are yet to come up with any alternatives as to what the ANC should have done instead of the current settlement, all they are good at is shooting from the hip about issues they know nothing about.
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My cowgirl.......you have so much energy that's going to waste trying to change peoples midset....we can put that to good use ma sweet pea.....i have an alternative for you....how about I get my Spanish Bull Fighting Outfit ready and shoot from my hip, while you whisper in my ear the issues you are good at...*winks* Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
PleaseGetReal1
Secretary
Azapo got it right. How on earth can you suffer for 27 years in jail while black people are dying outside and do not compensate the lost souls by giving their items (LAND and COWS) back after your victory? We are suffering because of him (Tata). I do buy it fosek Tata!!!
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What would you have liked him to do, declare a civil war and the SADF would have had to contract out companies to dig mass graves for all the people that would have been killed and the SADF decreasing the black majority to the minority or do a peaceful transition.?
@Cowgirl
@Secretary
Azapo got it right. How on earth can you suffer for 27 years in jail while black people are dying outside and do not compensate the lost souls by giving their items (LAND and COWS) back after your victory? We are suffering because of him (Tata). I do buy it fosek Tata!!!
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Is that you breaking?
Some people never fail to amaze me...there is nothing as a free lunch skat! don't tell me you actually believed the election rhetoric in 94 which said...everything in the new South Africa will be free...that was just election talk boet.....even my 4 year old would have been able to understand that....you disappoint me!
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Dn't be disappointed -(Just ask yourself how old is him ? i think he is still using his birth certificate.... Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Chichima
This azapo boy is digging his own grave, Tata did what he had to do if it wasnt for him we would be working in a farm somewhere..we would have this life of luxury that we r having now,Mandela did what he thought was best at the moment..ngobeni is very disrespectful and he should just go straight to hell nxa. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Tasto
@Cowgirl
I wish people could stop writting in CAPS lock as that is plain rude....hope you catch my drift! not holding my breathe though as that probably flew over that brick you might call a head.
I would like to pose a question to all those who feel that Mandela sold us out....how would you have liked the ANC to have handled the negotiations?...note i mentioned the ANC and not Mandela as he was not the only one who was negotiating a resolution....most of you lack understanding of politics and the impact of other alternatives had they decided to entertain any. It becomes pointless in debating/discussing anything with you lot cause you are too ignorant to comprehend anything...
Damn bornfrees who have no intentions of understanding their history and just repeat what their sheeben counterparts spew on their drinking spree...read and learn domkops!
Thas it my girl , what did Tambo said to Mandela when they meet for the first time ? Have you heard abt the question alleged asked "Who gave you the mandate to talk"? To jog your memory who was the anc president & who went to Groote Schuur ? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Makhosini0408
Its actually the other way round. We sold Madiba out. When he came out of prison, he said: "I stand before you as a humble servant." He reiterated that he was prepared to pay the highest price in fighting for both bl@ck and wh!te domination.
Now we have repaid him for the time that he spent in Robben Island by looting the State coffers, corruption, racism disguised as liberalism, tribalism (100% Z.ulu boy/ X.hosa boy, crime, dysfunctional education system and the list is endless.
Let us remember that he did his best and he left the ANC and government in sound health and now patient ANC and government is in intensive care unit and arrogantly do not want to accept that it is dying a slow painfull death.
Azapo must leave Madiba alone and concentrate on building the party that is in political wilderness and stop being irrelevant and insensitive. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
ONEE
@ Secretary you are the worst faceless human being i have ever heard of , tjooo shameless.
what did you want tata to do?
go out there in the farms collecting cows fo you hun heee??
he is not blank minded like you are, wisdom is forever profittable to direct.
many wont like what m about to write now that *tata played his part and we as mostly black africans came to the party with huge basg galloping to only feast with our friends and family, the result of that is evident to what we read on watch on the news averyday. do you mean he was still to come and spoon feed you again. what have you done for your self now let alone the country u useless person??
think with your head and not your emotions that are baseless here, Oppression is still alive bcz a black child is now the biggest player in the field pointing the enemy with one finger while the rest is pointing back to her/him.
let me not say much and leave you to it , but finally u need to realise that politics is a dirty game and dats what AZAPO is doing taking an opportunity capitalising on ANC's mistakes. there is no way now they can after 18 years start tarnishing Mandela's reputation its tooo late.
Sorry, my PC and most of my possessions was bought via the exchange of SKILLS. My skills for the goods. My skills involve the manipulation of imaginary 1's and 0's in cyberspace.
Now you think you can just march in here, and tell me that you actually own it, because Im white?
Someone is in dire need of a reality check. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
ONEE
S1nude1ty
Secretary - Do you want my PC too, because apparently I stole that from you too.
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hahahahahaha I cant help it but laugh...really now? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
ONEE - Hehe, why do we have to deal with 16 year olds who think they own land and cows? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
LESSON.1
@ONEE
@ Secretary you are the worst faceless human being i have ever heard of , tjooo shameless.
what did you want tata to do?
go out there in the farms collecting cows fo you hun heee??
he is not blank minded like you are, wisdom is forever profittable to direct.
many wont like what m about to write now that *tata played his part and we as mostly black africans came to the party with huge basg galloping to only feast with our friends and family, the result of that is evident to what we read on watch on the news averyday. do you mean he was still to come and spoon feed you again. what have you done for your self now let alone the country u useless person??
think with your head and not your emotions that are baseless here, Oppression is still alive bcz a black child is now the biggest player in the field pointing the enemy with one finger while the rest is pointing back to her/him.
let me not say much and leave you to it , but finally u need to realise that politics is a dirty game and dats what AZAPO is doing taking an opportunity capitalising on ANC's mistakes. there is no way now they can after 18 years start tarnishing Mandela's reputation its tooo late.
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You talking to a fly with no harm - Don't use doom , just take your size 5 high heel and moerhom.... Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Tabza325is
@Makhosini0408, you repay him, I was born in 1981 and as much as I didn't experiance apartheit to that extend I saw the affects growing up, with also the passing of my cousin in the hand of the South African police force then we all and our families paid our doose, Mandela was not the only one fighting the struggle, many died for the course, we love Mandela but we don't owe him anything. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
ONEE
Makhosini0408
well said Makhosini reality check will help us build a better nation facing our mistakes as they are in unity. whether in the blogg or in the real world fighting against each while the real crookes are out there enjoying the milk and honey is useless.
what can WE as the youth of this century do, to restore our country, why dont we have forums where we seat as the rainbow nation he dreamt about share ideas without expecting rewards. see where there is a weakest link then flow??
have you tghought that if two can stand up and do something that bring forth good results then the next person myt be interested and wanna join?
The reason the platforms that are available now are useless its because for you to participate it must be about which party you follow and the incentives thereoff. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
ONEE
S1nude1ty
ONEE - Hehe, why do we have to deal with 16 year olds who think they own land and cows?
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Truth hurts dats the problem.
but all we need in my opinion is to find solutions and not faults, we did that and does not seem to be helping.
If one did Management skill training will agree with me, put much effort on solution than the root cause.
because once you have the solution then its easy to move foward , hence Mandela wanted nothng but peace. look at Zim, it is not in good condition bcz Muggy only wants revenge while the people are suffering and also enjoying the best healthcare system abroad of which he cant even provide for his own people, his children live a sophisticated life, in the midst of poverty he is the king, Mswati too.
do we wanna go back there and be like them or even worse? as for me NO.
lol some flies can be irritating into a point you think its a rhino end up taking a wood stick to hit the head.. kwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
ONEE - Unfortunately, not enough truth, and too much propaganda here. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
kuyozekubenini
Well,we do not know ukuthi iyozala nkomoni.The truth is very souer and has its ways to put all in perspective....... its just a matter of time until the bomb explodes and when it does,i hope people shall have awaken from their deep sleep.I am very afraid that lies will always be protected and amended to siut certain political school of thought and it will depend on what the midia feeds you and what you choose to believe.Ga pinyana e re ping,e utlwa ka tse kgolo le mororo molato o sa e lebagana.
Ngwana wa dikgomo ithute molodi mme o gopole motlha malata a ileng.Kgetha nnete o bolokege mme o se itsenye matlho gareng ga ditshaba.All those who are asleep will learn by the grapevine and disseminate a hearsay since they never saw anything but mumble about what they are told.Be hands on and substantiate your arguments.Use qoutes,conscripts,time and place of events but also be able to show based on culculated information to make your point.
So, shoot streight AZAPO and make sure it is not ambiguous and easy to criticise by political bigotry because if you are not careful your argument will lack substance
Tabza325is
@Makhosini0408, you repay him, I was born in 1981 and as much as I didn't experiance apartheit to that extend I saw the affects growing up, with also the passing of my cousin in the hand of the South African police force then we all and our families paid our doose, Mandela was not the only one fighting the struggle, many died for the course, we love Mandela but we don't owe him anything.
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Madiba displayed leadership qualities when all wanted to revenge Hani's death, he managed to calm the storm at Soccer City during the burial of Chris Hani. He was the brain behind the stoping of senseless killing of ANC/IFP members in the 90's. All I am saying is that yes to some, he is a hero and Azapo disagrees, but he is the best son of the soil that Mzansi has ever produced. Azapo is out of order. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
ONEE
Tabza325is
@Makhosini0408, you repay him, I was born in 1981 and as much as I didn't experiance apartheit to that extend I saw the affects growing up, with also the passing of my cousin in the hand of the South African police force then we all and our families paid our doose, Mandela was not the only one fighting the struggle, many died for the course, we love Mandela but we don't owe him anything.
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very true we owe him nothing except respect for he efforts
but have you pondered on why we keep giving so much money to Mswati and also helping Zim with the tax payers money??
some political analysts keep on reminding us of the past and where we come from dat it is because we owe them favour.
I dont believe its fair, because we give them those moneis but they are not well spent. and the man who spent almost a quoter of his life in jail demands absolutly nothing , yet we have people who fail to bring solutions but start more problems by openning a poisonous smelly can of worms, he sure might have his own ghosts in the closet, but we dont need that now, but a solution Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Bebesocs
Shocked!!!!!!!!! Lets not loose focus. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
ONEE
S1nude1ty
hopefully oneday we will wake up and smell the coffee.
its too late now for more and more propaganda coz its taking us to NOWHERE Report Abuse
lol some flies can be irritating into a point you think its a rhino end up taking a wood stick to hit the head.. kwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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I’m still in shock about what he said- it shows that S.A history to him is an Imaginary *** More like a Ch1nese sangoma*** Report Abuse
CHANGEISGOOD
What you are saying is understandble to me, but my point of argument to AZAPO is why now??
2. in your own opinion from the day ANC took over what has been the hinderence to service delivery?
3. Didnt we at Mandela time have free education, feeding schemes etc? the things that he needed to implement then.
I doubt it would have been good for him to squander tax payers money in one period proviing for all the promises in one go. He left the duty for others to continue.
He was wise enought to stepdown before he is cornered by family and friend to do favours, of which the leaders after him thought they can not step down for each other so that all the skill and expetees can be exercised.
I guess what was discussed in the CODESA was ignored by the leaders that are now on the seats, we hear of all manner of corruption done by GVMNT officials.
It has been proven that with 14% of tax the gov can't manage to service the country...so it's needs extra income...which is under the soil on this country...only nationalization will be the solution to this country... Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
jozburg
but Winnie once said this about Mandela, the person who went to Robben Island is not the same person who came out. What i would like to know is why was the outcome of the negotiations a secret if they were beneficial to everyone in the country??
Tabza325is
@Cowgirl, "what they lack to understand is that there are NO WINNERS in war"
That's the whole point of such people since they have the shot hand of fortune they figure we might as well all loose, same as a successfull or rich person does not feel the need to share the countrie's wealth with others and that if one is in porverty then hard luck for them they must find thier way out of porverty, same as you believe such people are lazy as you also don't acknowladge thier up-hill struggle to escape the circle of porverty.
Mandela's is the world's sweet heart of the world as much as AZAPO might have a point it is too late for any apologies as most of those who were part of the collective then have passed away, it's now out of place for such a request.
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Some of my people seem to think that they are the only ones who have it bad, forgetting that we all had it bad pre 94 and we decided to do something about it post 94, and that is were the difference is between those who made something of their lives without expecting free handouts...it was never going to serve any purpose to moan while life passed us by...it was only going to leave us bitter and feeling like victims of the circumstances....i believe it is a mindset thing and sheer determination to make something of yourself and sorry to say this but when you have none...no amount of blame will help you overcome your circumstances.
People need to stop being selective in their blame game...they should rather blame the ANC for selling them out if they feel that is the case and not put the blame solely on Mandela cause that just exposes the fact that they do not understand our countries politics, the ANC specifically.......THE COLLECTIVE has always been an ANC motto...let it not change now to suit your devious agenda people.
@Secretary
Discussing anything with you is a waste of time cause you sound like a stuck record......i am still asking you ...what would you have liked the ANC to do?....taking out the settlement and civil war that is.
Maybe people need to start being truthful in analysing the current situation and admit that CORRUPTION is the root of the current state of affairs, these current comrades are corruptable and this is something which was an oversight on the part of the leadership of the past cause they had assumed that the ANC would always have leaders with moral compass who would like to see all their people succeed, they didn't bank on the current scum who are in it for themselves and to hell with the masses who live in abject poverty and they are happy keeping them there for as long as they can.
The resources are there but plummeted by the greedy so called comrades which we see in our midst...you can't blame Mnadela for that sh%t.
@Candyboy
The thought of you in that Spanish Bull fighting outfit makes my blood run wild...i see you are a naughty boy today...it must be the weather(cold)
I can't entertain the deliberate ignorance of most here....surely there is no excuse anymore for not educating ourselves about world issues cause the implications of not reaching a settlement had far reaching repurcussions for South Africa and the world as we are not a freakin island as some would like to believe....we operate in a global community and all those things had to be taken into consideration when those negotiations were taking place.
Wake up people and educate yourselves a little more for the sake of your own children.
Lesson.1
I’m still in shock about what he said- it shows that S.A history to him is an Imaginary *** More like a Ch1nese sangoma***
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tltltltl dont you think she/he was born in 1994 or after??
so all he/she enjoyed was feeding scheme, free transport to school
freedom of speech ad having access to a pc anywhere by the road side or got a job bcz her friend family memeber works in that organisation without skill with no clue of who he is and where the country he is living in come from. or may be he is not even a SAan..lol Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
Milaneshu - The first trillion rand budget in the history of South Africa, and its not enough for the government?!
Meanwhile, we are paying tens of millions every year for Zuma's wives. We are paying a BILLION RAND for luxury vehicles for MP's...
R30 BILLION goes missing every year due to corruption.
No dude, the money isnt the problem. its the management of it thats the problem. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
RobinH
Secretary: For a secretary your language is pretty poor. Not to mention a trifle objectionable. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
LESSON.1
ONEE
Lesson.1
I’m still in shock about what he said- it shows that S.A history to him is an Imaginary *** More like a Ch1nese sangoma***
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tltltltl dont you think she/he was born in 1994 or after??
so all he/she enjoyed was feeding scheme, free transport to school
freedom of speech ad having access to a pc anywhere by the road side or got a job bcz her friend family memeber works in that organisation without skill with no clue of who he is and where the country he is living in come from. or may be he is not even a SAan..lol
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ki ki ki ki ki ki he works at Chicken Licken - i dn't know how he manage to log on to sowetan Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
ONEE
Cowgirl
....i believe it is a mindset thing and sheer determination to make something of yourself and sorry to say this but when you have none...no amount of blame will help you overcome your circumstances.
People need to stop being selective in their blame game...they should rather blame the ANC for selling them out if they feel that is the case and not put the blame solely on Mandela cause that just exposes the fact that they do not understand our countries politics, the ANC specifically.......THE COLLECTIVE has always been an ANC motto...let it not change now to suit your devious agenda people.
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Cant add neither take anything away from this.
we dont need big english to be wise or make sense. People think we are denying the facts and I guess not but AZAPO shouldnt pick n choose.
@ SOWETAN
I propose a platform for bloggers who wants to see the change of our country positively
some people make sense some they dont but at the end of the day the solution might not lie in the cabinets / parliament but within the ordinaty people on the ground.
we dont want compensation but to have an input that will drive to a change.
Where black,white,indian coloured will throw esivivaneni and the expects review.
The stup!d boy Slikkur was sent death threats for his analysis of SA blacks (Blacks are stup!d). Questioning or pointing out mistakes done by Mandela is more like a blasphemy, more like drawing a Prophet Mahomed cartoon, you could be stoned to death. Just like the ANC and Zuma "we need to debate, we need to debate", yet when faced with issues to debate about they lack modesty, which is what they showed when that Khoza boy from Nedcor experienced. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
NDA
Thanks azapo someone is saying it without fear. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Cowgirl
@jozburg
i bet Mandela said the same thing about Winnie when he came out of prison seeing that she was a completely different woman(not possitively) when he came out of prison....note that i am not taking anything away from Madikizela but i just think she is the last person to throw any stones as she understands all too well that sacrifices had to be made. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
kuyozekubenini
Ikhotha e khothayo ngoba e ngayikhothi izoyi khahlela.South African history is distorted and in many instances falsified.I stand to wonder how much the critic knows since I have not seen or heared what they know.The hogwash from the responding views is very steriotype and does not give bloggers a clue as to where they are coming from.To say the least it is very disturbing to realise that our people are not tolerent and will never give us the truth about what transpired during the CODESA negociations in conjuction to what MADIBA did or did not do.I also cannot understand the role of more than thirtien organisations who went to form the ptriotic front that was latter sidestepped by the ANC who wanted to speak in one voice towards and against the wanton and selfish gains the ANC envissaged.
Watch the space,the chickens are coming home to roost.
Milaneshu
It has been proven that with 14% of tax the gov can't manage to service the country...so it's needs extra income...which is under the soil on this country...only nationalization will be the solution to this country...
******
I can bet u on my last 5c my brother.
how come did our governent aprove for etoll for R20b if thats the case?? for what
How come that our government is paying child grant, instead of forster care grant only?? promoting child birth before wedlock and school leavers to graduate to HIV n AIDS graduates
How come that our government is paying for HIV n AIDS victims?? encouraging that everybody if they cant get jobs or dont wanna work must hunt for Aids and they will have income.
Wats next?? Nationalise then you can Marry as many wives as you like then there will be compensation for such men who has 20 wives paid per wife and the number of children and also the wife to be paid for being in a polygammy??
Our forefathers did that based on their wealth.
if the nationalisation can be allowed now it will serve their purpose ofclosing the gaps they created through corruption that they can not answer for during financial audits.
It is a way they wanna make sure before they are taken down by another party , they would have finished all the resources, untill when we shall be starting from the scratch fixing problems instead of moving foward?
look at what is Eskom doing increasing rates over and over again giving top top senior staff FAT bonuses living the people who does risky real jobs with nothing. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Mapholobakay1
As much this is sad, unfortunately it is also true BUT if Mandela and Co. did not negotiate we would be in the same boat as Zimbabwe. The policies that the ANC is implementing now are trying to reverse Mandela's flopp. The policies that Juju was talking about are also trying to reverse Mandela's flopp.
We can only hope for the better. The struggle continues. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Cowgirl
Bdoobs
The stup!d boy Slikkur was sent death threats for his analysis of SA blacks (Blacks are stup!d). Questioning or pointing out mistakes done by Mandela is more like a blasphemy, more like drawing a Prophet Mahomed cartoon, you could be stoned to death. Just like the ANC and Zuma "we need to debate, we need to debate", yet when faced with issues to debate about they lack modesty, which is what they showed when that Khoza boy from Nedcor experienced.
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The issue here is the fact that most people distort the truth for their own agenda, it has nothing to do with questioning or pointing Mandela's mistakes....the issue is....lies perpetuated by others. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
lerotse
Azapo was always existing .Most of your so called Coucilors and MECs have diverted from AZAPO and PAC because of the bread that they wanted and behind thier minds to expose the anc that you can invade it without it being aware of you thinking when you join. Report Abuse
PEOPLE MANDELA FOUGHT 4 27 YEARS AND NOW WHAT HE FOUGHT FOR IS GOING DOWN THE DRAIN, DONT U GUYS THINK HE WAS SUPOSE TO CUM OUT AND REMIND THE CURENT GVMNT HOW THE IS SOPOSED TO BE RUNED, WHY IS HE QUITE???? DONT U GUYS THINK IF HE CAN CUM OUT AND SPEAK WITH OUR LEADERS THINGS WUD CHANGE???? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
sh!tFaceSamsung
for me there is no NEW SOUTH AFRICA: yes of couse on paper look new: but te reality differ: Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
MGEEZ
@PleaseGetReal1
Dude, people in S.A is living in poverty because they managed in 18 years to expand by more than 12 million people, mothers and fathers who does not have jobs are making children in a country where the government is raiding the coffers and instead of creating jobs, more people are losing jobs. So if people are still struggling they must look in the mirror or ask their parents, WHY?
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I am on my feet right now applauding your comments above, well thought and well said!!!! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Tabza325is
@Makhosini0408, "Madiba displayed leadership qualities when all wanted to revenge Hani's death"
Now you just justifying what you said earlier that we should repay Madiba for being in jail all those years which is why I pointed out that others also fought for this freedom not only UTATA, we all love Mandela but we cannot be blinded by our masianic love for one man as being responsible for our liberation fogerting our other fallen heroes. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Mporoz
Azapo hould apologise to the nation for this statement! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Candyboy
@Cowgirl,
You will get to know the real Candyboy.........Spanish outfit & all......btw...the weather has nothing to do with my appetite for a well educated & and open minded woman like you.....your brains are so attractive, i can only imagine what else it can do if stimulated the right way....*smiles*
Text of the Groote Schuur Minute
4 May 1990
The government and the African National Congress agree on a common commitment towards the resolution of the existing climate of violence and intimidation from whatever quarter as well as a commitment to stability and to a peaceful process of negotiations.
Flowing from this commitment, the following was agreed upon:
The establishment of a working group to make recommendations on a definition of political offences in the South African situation; to discuss, in this regard, time scales; and to advise on norms and mechanisms for dealing with the release of political prisoners and the granting of immunity in respect of political offences to those inside and outside South Africa. All persons who may be affected will be considered. The working group will bear in mind experiences in Namibia and elsewhere. The working group will aim to complete its work before 21st May 1990. It is understood that the South African government, in its discretion, may consider other political parties and movement and other relevant bodies. The proceedings of the working group will be confidential. In the meantime the following offences will receive attention immediately:
The leaving of the country without a valid travel document.
Any offences related merely to organizations which were previously prohibited.
In addition to the arrangements mentioned in paragraph 1, temporary immunity from prosecution of political offences committed before today, will be considered on an urgent basis for members of the National Executive Committee and selected other members of the ANC from outside the country, to enable them to return and help with the establishment and management of political activities, to assist in bringing violence to an end and to take part in peaceful political negotiations.
The government undertakes to review existing security legislation to bring it into line with the new dynamic situation developing in South Africa in order to ensure normal and free political activities.
The government reiterates its commitment to work towards the lifting of the state of emergency. In this context, the ANC will exert itself to fulfill the objectives contained in the preamble.
Efficient channels of communication between the government and the ANC will be established in order to curb violence and intimidation from whatever quarter effectively.
The government and the ANC agree that the objectives contained in this minute should be achieved as early as possible.
Sell-out or not, Mandela couldn't have done it alone. Liberation movements had armed wings (MK, Apla, Azanla), the aim being to take on and defeat the apartheid government. Somewhere along the line collective decisions were made that negotiations were better than war, hence the "compromise constitution". NOT all parties agreed to this arrangement, unfortunately they were the minority so the decision remained in force (like in a normal democracy) and CODESA was concieved, giving birth to what is now Freedom Day.
It's wrong for AZAYO to blame Nelson Mandela for a collective decision; calling him names is just pure contempt and goes against the founding principles of AZAPO. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
SharpSharp
Mporoz
Azapo should apologise to the nation for this statement!...hahahahahahahahahaha OMG Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Candyboy
@Tabza325is
you know i do all I can irratate the living sh!t out of you....but today i wana offer you a bells buddy:-) Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
TonkiYaPoho
I remeber the open letter written to Zuma by Mbeki. google it, read it where he says they had all agreed to make Mandela a Global face because it was convinient & you'll get the truth from the letter.
Mandela fought for the right for every South African to be able to chose a government of their choice at the poll station without fear.
Mandela DID NOT FIGHT for money to be transferred to every black soul in this country. Mandela expected black people to take advantage of the freedom that had been given to them to uplift themselves. He said that above all things, education is your greatest asset to survival and success.
Sadly the organization of Mandela was hijacked by gangsters that have robbed the coffers. Now that all the money is gone and stored in bank accounts in Switzerland, Cuba and Shanghai, the ANC is now been cornered by the masses and the ANC is now using their puppet mouth pieces like NUMSA and the ANCYL to divert the blame on Wh!te Capital.
The ANC took a loan that they would never pay the people back and used wh!te wealth as security. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sjekula
"Any form of political freedom which does not touch on proper distribution of wealth will be meaningless. Whites have locked up within a small minority of themselves, the greater proportion of the country's wealth, and if we have a mere change of face of those in governing positions, what is likely to happen is that black people will continue to be poor, and we will get a few blacks filtering through into the so called bourgeoisie and our society will be ran almost as of yesterday." Steve Biko
Mandela and his crew knew this was gonna happen, and their "Bourgeoisie" children(Tselane Tambo) labeled black people lazy, that's what she said when she landed in the country. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
MGEEZ
@All
This is politics; and like in anything, hindsight is beautiful because it makes every one look intelligent!!!! I can see that many right now must be thinking very highly of themselves than they ought to, looking at the comments above.
It's a free country and each one is exercising their freedom of speech!!! Lol Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Tabza325is
@Cowgirl, I also made it but going back to my old neighborhood I still see some of my peers who didn't make it not because they were lazy but simply circumstances and fortune is not on everybody's side, just because one has great fortune in life does not mean those that don't are just lazy doing nothing to lift thier circumstances, we can't live ourlives with our noses high in the sky acting as if we are the only hard working people in this world we are all working hard the defference is others have fortune on their side and others are bound to be trapped in the circle of porverty regardless of iether you think they are lazy or not, be compassionate to others and try to be considerate as a human being and have Ubuntu and acknowdge others pain. This is why every December I always make sure I have something for the gabage pick up guys in my neighborhood as I know not all are as fortunate as the few of us in this world whom fortune and destiny is on our side. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sakaza
In my opinion AZAPO is right, if it was'nt for Mandela the gap between the rich (whitepeople) and a poor (blackpeople) would'nt so pathetically huge. freedom combatent died some jailed never tested freedom in their live time some are watching it on tv poor, all in the name of stupid rainbow nation, no nation will become a rainbow, you only get rainbow when moisture meets light, they will never like us, so why must we? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
SharpSharp
Nelson Mandela Foundation spokesman Sello Hatang said Mandela had always maintained "that he was always acting as part of the collective".
I will recommend Long Walk To Freedom for those who didnt read it... inlcuding leshaangane la Ngobeni.... Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sjekula
@SharpSharp
Does being Shangaan make him less of a human being, you sure have a small brain, don't engage ezindabeni zabantu abadala. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
Nah, I think you guys are wrong. You forget that at the time, the SADF was considered one of the most powerful and elite military units in the world.
If negotiations didnt happen, and the end of apartheid was defined by a military struggle, then apartheid would still be happening as we speak. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
SharpSharp
Sakaza
In my opinion AZAPO is right, if it was'nt for Mandela the gap between the rich (whitepeople) and a poor (blackpeople) would'nt so pathetically huge. freedom combatent died some jailed never tested freedom in their live time some are watching it on tv poor, all in the name of stupid rainbow nation, no nation will become a rainbow, you only get rainbow when moisture meets light, they will never like us, so why must we?
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Can u explain yourself This rich and poor thing ????????????????????????????????????? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Makhosini0408
Tabza325is
@Makhosini0408, "Madiba displayed leadership qualities when all wanted to revenge Hani's death"
Now you just justifying what you said earlier that we should repay Madiba for being in jail all those years which is why I pointed out that others also fought for this freedom not only UTATA, we all love Mandela but we cannot be blinded by our masianic love for one man as being responsible for our liberation fogerting our other fallen heroe
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With all due respect, I did not say we owe Madiba anything. In my initial post I said I think Madiba should be the one that we need to apologise to for betraying the ideals that he fought for, not like what the this clowns are alluding to. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
Sakaza - Did you know, that as of 5 years ago, black capital in South Africa is greater than white capital. Meaning that combined, black people have more money than white people. The black middle class is bigger than the entire white population. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sjekula
@S1nude1ty
Negotiations with so much of a compromise from Africans. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Chresmo
@The-Rothschilds, dont u tink he was supoz to cum out and talk to our current leaders??? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
MGEEZ
Sakaza
In my opinion AZAPO is right, if it was'nt for Mandela the gap between the rich (whitepeople) and a poor (blackpeople) would'nt so pathetically huge. freedom combatent died some jailed never tested freedom in their live time some are watching it on tv poor, all in the name of stupid rainbow nation, no nation will become a rainbow, you only get rainbow when moisture meets light, they will never like us, so why must we?
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They are subjectively right because their opinion is directly linked to your prejudices that inform your premise hence in your opinion they are right. I want you to understand that no scientific research was performed to prove or disprove their theory. As long as that is the case; they have not proven anything but just inspired a debate about the matter. Another thing i want you to understand is that there is no telling where we would be today in South Africa had the ANC refused to take what was on the table. It can be argued that the ANC approach was a better one because in any negotiations you give and take!!! How does that change the price of eggs? What has Azapo done for our people; except criticizing those who are doing something!!! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Secretary
I do not buy it,Tata should be brought to book and charged. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
The-Rothschilds
Chresmo
@The-Rothschilds, dont u tink he was supoz to cum out and talk to our current leaders???
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The man can hardly walk and talk.
He spent almost 3 decades in prison, let the man live his last few years in peace. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Tabza325is
@Makhosini0408, if you put it that way then agreed, the noble course and Idealogy that him and our other fallen heroes fought for are being dis-horned by the current ANC organisation. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Maezizsto_
Fack this Amukelani trash.You cant blame Tata for ANC failures.It is not Tata's fault that we have greedy individuals in the government who are power hungry and are only interested in enriching themselves and their families. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
MGEEZ
Makhosini0408
Tabza325is
@Makhosini0408, "Madiba displayed leadership qualities when all wanted to revenge Hani's death"
Now you just justifying what you said earlier that we should repay Madiba for being in jail all those years which is why I pointed out that others also fought for this freedom not only UTATA, we all love Mandela but we cannot be blinded by our masianic love for one man as being responsible for our liberation fogerting our other fallen heroe
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With all due respect, I did not say we owe Madiba anything. In my initial post I said I think Madiba should be the one that we need to apologise to for betraying the ideals that he fought for, not like what the this clowns are alluding to.
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So; how is the statement above different from having said we owe the men? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
Sjekula - What compromise? The return of stolen land to its original owners? Thats happening and the process is almost complete.
Control of the economy? You do realise how you control the economy right? By buying majority shares, look at these figures:
Annual claimed buying power Last quarter 2005 estimate First quarter 2007 estimate
Whites R230bn R235bn
Blacks: R300bn R335bn
Therefore, its easy enough for combined black investors to outbuy the shares of white investors. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
Secretary - "I do not buy it,Tata should be brought to book and charged."
You will protect scumbags like Block, Zuma and Ace... but you want Mandela to be charged? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
oldlady5
Mandela did not have a choice. If he did not agree to terms that suited the NATS, 1994 wouldn't have happened. Instead, there would have been full blown war, and the people with the most weapon power would have won. Sure, the Russians would have provided many weapons to the revolution, but then they'd become masters, and they're mostly white too.
What intrigues me most is all the talk about Hani. I've always wondered what Derby-Lewis and the dude with the difficult name got out of kil.ling him. Now it seems more and more like a plot somewhere from deep within the ruling ranks to prevent him from preventing them having luxury lifestyles in the future. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
SharpSharp
Sjekula
@SharpSharp
Does being Shangaan make him less of a human being, you sure have a small brain, don't engage ezindabeni zabantu abadala.
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I am Mope di and proud of being Mop edi why you Shaanganes dont want ppl to call u by your names if you are shaangane ur shaangane it will never change. No one ever talked about less human being...Whats wrong with you shaanganes is shaaangane an insult...Tells us shaanganes tell us
OK, I will recommend Long Walk To Freedom for those who didnt read it... inlcuding m opedi woo wa Ngobeni.... Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Secretary
@Cowgirl
You are just a tailless calf without confidence.
If you are adamand by saying Curruption is the root. What Tata did was purely corruption,because he went through secret meeting and surrendered our land and cows to white minority,those meeting apparently involved bribism and mafia Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
nsukuangel
Unfortunately the brother is spot on, on this matter, we were sold out in return for fame and union building... Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
The-Rothschilds
gangsters took over Mandela's ANC............................all the money is now gone.........................and now the people are asking where is the money???? We have been done in!
Secretary, he surrendered your COWS to white minority????? Hahahahaha. That's priceless. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
mozanana
ma azapo anyela dey must leave our hero in peace long live TATA MANDELA long live Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
Just so we get the records straight, it wasnt Mandela that organised the terms to end apartheid. It was Thabo Mbeki and Willie Esterhuysen (to mention the chief negotiators). Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sjekula
"Before taking the stand, the president said he had grave reservations about the unprecedented order for him to appear in court because it might open floodgates by which all presidential decisions might be challenged and government undermined." - Nelson Mandela. He didn't make those decisions as an individual, people must understand that there is the NEC, and our major problem was also exiles having input on negotiations, having not taken time to study/observe the black man's position then, hence the Sibusiso Bhengu's came and implemented education systems that were being piloted wherever they copied them.
Secretary
I do not buy it,Tata should be brought to book and charged.
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Charged for what???? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Secretary
@S1nude1ty
As it was highlighted in the article that Tata is about to surrender to death,we should be quick to charge him and the rest of his mafias later. Do not worry about Zuma,Mangaung conference will charge him. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
Secretary - You are a cowless tail without logic. If you want war, then stop being a little war mongerer behind the safety of your PC. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
Secretary - The article clearly got its facts wrong. As do you. So, whats the point in debating with someone that doesnt have a clue. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
truthhurt
S1nude1ty
Secretary - "I do not buy it,Tata should be brought to book and charged."
=============================================================
How about we start by charging your mother for givung birth to you? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
MzimbaShaker
After seeing the heading, I went straight to the comments bcoz I know how much luv we have for uTata so I wanted real to see what ppl will say. After reading most of the comments, I decided to google for the CODESA agreement. Though it does not give much details on what was discussed and agreements, I am convinced that there are some decision that were taken back then for the betterment of the country.
What I noticed was that, the negtiations were about to reach the stand still untill the death of Chris Hani. The NP then allowed Mandela and ANC to dectate terms bcoz of how Mandela handled the Chris Hani issue.
The problem we are facing is that the current ANC leadership never had a plan of how to transform from the brick Mandela and company has laid to sustain the economy of the country. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Makhosini0408
Tabza325is
@Makhosini0408, if you put it that way then agreed, the noble course and Idealogy that him and our other fallen heroes fought for are being dis-horned by the current ANC organisati.
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I am glad that the miss understanding was cleared. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Secretary
@MGEEZ
Secret meeting could consist of bribes and mafias. That old man turned himself to Jesus Christ illegally. He harnessed the mass and benefitted out of their potential. We are cleaning south Africa by starting with Tata. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
MsHollyHerb
Mcm abantu dont appreciate shame at all, how can u hlukumeza uMandela out of all people, dis Amukelani is the 1 who wont rest in peace and there goes his ticket to heaven, Nx Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
oldlady5
Charge, charge, charge, charge, charge. sounds like a raging bull in a china shop destroying everything beautiful around him. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
LESSON.1
@Secretary
I do not buy it,Tata should be brought to book and charged.
====================================================
You need to take your Medication Seriously - (First of all by following the instructions )
You been here on this blog talking about cows- What cows cos even your grand- grand fathers never had 1 single cow? stop drinking overdose of Chibuku......... Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Makhosini0408
Makhosini0408
Its actually the other way round. We sold Madiba out. When he came out of prison, he said: "I stand before you as a humble servant." He reiterated that he was prepared to pay the highest price in fighting for both bl@ck and wh!te domination.
Now we have repaid him for the time that he spent in Robben Island by looting the State coffers, corruption, racism disguised as liberalism, tribalism (100% Z.ulu boy/ X.hosa boy, crime, dysfunctional education system and the list is endless.
Let us remember that he did his best and he left the ANC and government in sound health and now patient ANC and government is in intensive care unit and arrogantly do not want to accept that it is dying a slow painfull death.
Azapo must leave Madiba alone and concentrate on building the party that is in political wilderness and stop being irrelevant and insensitive.
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MGEEZ
I hope that answers your question? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sjekula
@SharpSharp
I didn't mean to get into a debate with you, and I know that batho ba dipolasing cannot see beyond tribes and yet they want to engage in bigger topics, I do not entertain tribalists. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Tabza325is
@S1nude1ty, "Annual claimed buying power Last quarter 2005 estimate First quarter 2007 estimate
Whites R230bn R235bn
Blacks: R300bn R335bn"
Interesting figures, I wonder how much of that spending power is debt accumilated by the blacks compared to white debt. I think they is a defference between having money and spending power as access to credit as most South Africans do. How much of that spending power does the blacks own as money they have compared to the debt they take to buy.
S1nude1ty
Secretary - "I do not buy it,Tata should be brought to book and charged."
You will protect scumbags like Block, Zuma and Ace... but you want Mandela to be charged?
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this is a secretary and all she ever does is to follow instructions and write what is said, so dont mind such people bcz her brain is very limited she cant think at all.. ooh no ofence to the briliant secretaries. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
Tabza325is - Interesting question... Lemme see if I can find some figures... Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
LESSON.1
@truthhurt
@S1nude1ty
Secretary - "I do not buy it,Tata should be brought to book and charged."
=============================================================
How about we start by charging your mother for givung birth to you?
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Wrong how about charging his father by wasting his energy and Sp3rms ? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
MinsterWithoutPortfolio
I couldn’t agree more:
I APOLOGISE FOR those who are blinded by ignorance on this matter .
Corruption started under the Mandela administration .e.g Tokyo and Cyril multi millions mostly from BEE deals.
In his home town he lives like the white man on his farm, yet his neighbours live in extreme poverty....
I didn’t see much change as he moved from Soweto to Sand ton .
If Mandela didn’t sell us out, how come he has not comment on the high level of corruption from ANC official over the years as he is well respected....
Why : because HE IS JUST A CIP OFF THE OLD BLOCK...........
Keep in mind it’s not only Mandela who suffered during the fight for freedom...........
If someone remains neutral about known BAD situation, it becomes obvious which side is that person taking.
AZAPO motherbody is mum about the useless article advanced by thier doomed youth wing. I don't have words or share how disgusted I am. Its a disgraced for a liberation movement to let its legacy go down the drain like this. Please close shop Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Secretary
@LESSON.1
Cows refer to our richness idiot. You are mentally paralyzed and hypnotized hence you cant think outside the box Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Cowgirl
@Tabza325is
Well i see that we have different views on life and therefore we will not agree on this one....firstly i do not believe in luck or fortune as you put it....i believe in putting in the work to succeed, having changed my circumstances after being orphaned at the age of 13 and being raised by me sister who was 16 at the time, having gone to bed on an empty stomach on some nights, being a child of an alcoholic father who terrorised us as children... see i had a choice...either to let my circumstances define me or define myself...i chose the latter cause i did not want to be a victim of my circumstances.....my point here is that we were all born in those circumstances but most of us chose to define our own paths when freedom was gained....this is not being cruel but stating a simple fact..... we choose our paths in this life and work hard at determining a path for our journey.
By the way i also do my part in helping others, the woman who helps to keep my house together, who looks after my child as i am trying to make sure that he has a better future can attest to that, so will her son who i contribute towards his education since he completed his matric in 2010 and therefore i ask that you do not accuse me of not caring when i do not accept laziness. I probably practise more UBUNTU than you ever will but i chose do it in a way that will assist people rather than enable them to not get up and do it for themselves(lazy).
I have identified two more candidates that i will sponsor from 2013 in furthering their studies but i have made it perfectly clear to them that...what they put in to ensure that they succeed with their matric year will determine me assisting them as i WILL NOT invest my resources on people who are not willing to put in the work. The is NO FREE lunch in this life and i want these young people that i am assisting to understand that and i want them to know that they are not their circumstances.
You cannot blame anyone for your failure in this life....NO ONE! Report Abuse
According to the article, Men account for 58.12 percent of debt. White males make up 44.13 percent of debt and black males 28.93 percent. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
ONEE
LESSON.1
@Secretary
I do not buy it,Tata should be brought to book and charged.
====================================================
You need to take your Medication Seriously - (First of all by following the instructions )
You been here on this blog talking about cows- What cows cos even your grand- grand fathers never had 1 single cow? stop drinking overdose of Chibuku.........
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You earlier told me not to bother waste my doom here...kwaaaa and this is one of those attention seekers we normally come acroos the blog.
brainless, clueless and honeslty i believe she took her medication but the timing was wrong it should be taken at night so she can rest for its al ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz dizzy Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sjekula
S1nude1ty
Annual claimed buying power Last quarter 2005 estimate First quarter 2007 estimate
Whites R230bn R235bn
Blacks: R300bn R335bn
To howmany Africans does that belong to, it could be 3 politicians, "Bourgeoisie", you should have read my the quote on my first comment, by Steve Biko. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
oldlady5
Tabza325i, you see, the same thing applies to the white.s. For all these years you've been so blinded by their riches, that you never took into account that only the top elite is rich. The rest of us us owned by the banks........ house, care, furniture and souls. Just like the blacks. Check the next white tannie standing before you in a supermarket queue's wallet. Credit card after credit card. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
SharpSharp
I must say i am really disappointed about the knowledge our ppl has in terms of the running of the country...Many dont really have a clue on what happened pre1994 and post 1994. i can understand that many were young but that does nt justify this lot of rubbbish about an individual. It was alsways collective in the ANC, and even when it was very diffuclt for uTata to consult with the NEC of the ANC then he make sure that he speaks to one and two ppl who was in the NEC of the burned ANC. I repeat even in difficult situation he has never ever take any decision that concern the majority of the ppl with consulting with one or two of the ANCNEC Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Milaneshu
With nationalisation of mines we will better the conditions of workers more jobs will be created...we open companies to cut and polish the minerals here in sa...the country is very rich with minerals... that's why we still have more investors who are willing to invest here...the time has come for us to implement the freedom charter unapologetically...
We continue to demand that the land and wealth be shared and that all mineral wealth beneath the soil be transferred to the people as a whole...we all agree with the freedom charter when it's say's sa belongs to everyone who live in it...however we always differ when it say's people shall share the wealth of this country...why?
The problem we are facing is that the current ANC leadership never had a plan of how to transform from the brick Mandela and company has laid to sustain the economy of the country.
================================================================================
CORRECTION....
The ANC had a brilliant plan called GEAR.
But GEAR cannot work when those running the show are stealing the resources required to finance GEAR.
The ANC took a loan that they knew they would NEVER EVER pay back.
Over the past 18 years, the top 300 in the ANC has stolen 100s of billions of rands..........................the money is now gone.................our economy is not growing anywhere near as fast as it should be to uplift the black majority. The ANC has created a welfare uneducated state to keep itself and the top 300 with all the wealth and power it wants. Ofcourse the money comes from wh!te monopoly capital and other investments which is why the top 300 will defend monopoly capital as long as monopoly capital stays out of politics. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
The-Rothschilds
Milaneshu
With nationalisation of mines we will better the conditions of workers more jobs will be created...we open companies to cut and polish the minerals here in sa...the country is very rich with minerals... that's why we still have more investors who are willing to invest here...the time has come for us to implement the freedom charter unapologetically...
We continue to demand that the land and wealth be shared and that all mineral wealth beneath the soil be transferred to the people as a whole...we all agree with the freedom charter when it's say's sa belongs to everyone who live in it...however we always differ when it say's people shall share the wealth of this country...why?
=============================================================================
Because someone worked hard to create that wealth................if we are going to share we have to all put in equal effort..................but we all know this has never been the case. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sakaza
@Shapshap
we have estates that valued at millions whith electric fence, 2 kilometers away people are living in shacks with sh****t all over the place, just guess who stays in estates and who stays in shacks and why? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Cowgirl
Secretary
@Cowgirl
You are just a tailless calf without confidence.
If you are adamand by saying Curruption is the root. What Tata did was purely corruption,because he went through secret meeting and surrendered our land and cows to white minority,those meeting apparently involved bribism and mafia
_____________________________________________________
Okay i can't deal anymore...what is up with the cows dude?...into farming i presume....kikikiki
Sjekula - "To how many Africans does that belong to, it could be 3 politicians"
Wether it belongs to 3 politicians or 5 million middle-class members, the facts are starting to state things quite obviously. The power to enrich people on the ground is not on the onus of the white man anymore. Its now in the hands of the black man.
What all the calls of 'expropriation' are showing, is that instead of distributing wealth, the black capital owners would rather take more, from diminishing white capital, then actually trickling down from the greater caches of black capital. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
LESSON.1
@Goat_Sperm_Returns_
Click- dn't involve me in your madness - pleaaaaaaaaaaaase Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
Milaneshu - "With nationalisation of mines we will better the conditions of workers more jobs will be created."
Where did you get this information from? Are you just pulling statements out of your socks now?
Just a correction, the wealth of the country is available to everyone. But unfortunately, those profiteering the most (Patrice Motsepe) doesnt want to share with you. Nor does Zuma, Tokyo or Rhamaphosa. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
SharpSharp
Sjekula
@SharpSharp
I didn't mean to get into a debate with you, and I know that batho ba dipolasing cannot see beyond tribes and yet they want to engage in bigger topics, I do not entertain tribalists.
=================================================
Ppl need to learn to confront things the way they are Shaaangane is Shaangane unless u have a problem with that....Mopedi ke Mopedi, Afrikaa ner is Afrikaa ner.
I must say that we dont need ppl like u in this country they keep on dragging us back Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
The-Rothschilds
Sakaza
@Shapshap
we have estates that valued at millions whith electric fence, 2 kilometers away people are living in shacks with sh****t all over the place, just guess who stays in estates and who stays in shacks and why?
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People work very hard to live in an estate, and its probably decades and generations of wealth that would allow someone to live in an estate. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
Sakaza - "we have estates that valued at millions whith electric fence, 2 kilometers away people are living in shacks with sh****t all over the place, just guess who stays in estates and who stays in shacks and why?"
ANC politicians living in the mansions? Julius living in his R16 million mansion? Like I say, you need to do some serious introspection dude. Its now black responsbility to enrich the people living in poverty, not white responsibility. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Secretary
@Goat_Sperm_Returns_
We want facts on this platform not insults. You may leave us!!! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Tabza325is
@oldlady5
Tabza325i, you see, the same thing applies to the white.s. For all these years you've been so blinded by their riches, that you never took into account that only the top elite is rich. The rest of us us owned by the banks........ house, care, furniture and souls. Just like the blacks. Check the next white tannie standing before you in a supermarket queue's wallet. Credit card after credit card.
That's why I asked that question as I understand spending power can mean more debt than actual wealth and people mistake this as having money or so called Black Diamonds, very few have money and the rest are living with debt and untill they pay it of the bank owns thier houses and assets. I stay in Kempton Park and have no false illution that all whites have money, believe me I see poor white people all the time and some even homeless in Kempton Park CBD, also within Kempton Park residential you get this residential flats or granny flats were some of the struggling young white couples stay and most struggle to pay thier monthly rent. I know spending power does not translate to wealth but more debt. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
Tabza325is - Its true, but like the link I posted stated, white folks have more debt than black folks. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Tasto
Ppl there were many talks b4 CODESA some ppl want or think that when they saw CODESA on tv that was it, there was Conference For Democratic Future @ Wits in 1989 prior to NMandela release and fortunatley or unfortunatley it was graced by those former Robben Ilsand prisoners but they were not part of any delegation.What I saw there was the start of the way the country was going to follow.Azapo on 1 side was contesting that the Bantustan(Holomisa&crew) to be on one side with the NATS and liberation movements to form-a-front and seat on one side of the table.This led to some confrontation and KZN-Azapo left the hall because ANC & PAC did not se Holomisa then as a bantustan or as special one !!By the time we went to CODESA it was one for himself @ some point Azapo was uncertain to take part in legitimising government of national-unuty whateva that means !!
PS - There were talks already long before this in London, Lusaka, etc by the anc and apartheid NATS !! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
lickme
who is azapo? this guys think their shisa nyama meetings with their frieds count in polotics.. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sjekula
@SharpSharp
"I must say that we dont need ppl like u in this country they keep on dragging us back"
I believe sane people would see it the other way round, st.up.id tribalist, I wouldn't attack BaPedi because of you mor.on, you're not adding value, don't let your emotions cloud your brain, next time you disagree with a person, do so in a decent way, don't pull tribes semaumau. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Insider
"You can fool some people sometime but you can't fool all the people all the times"- Bob Marley Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
truthhurt
@Goat_Sperm_Returns
What can you expect from som1 like you, i know your type. day dreaming about other men, all day long, sies! Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sakaza
@S1nidet1y
dont tell about 200 black people against 50 thousand whites wena, we should have at least about 100 squre kilometre balck suburb not of shacks something you will only find in Africa. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
truthhurt - Err, thats funny. Because you made a similiar comments towards me. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
oldlady5
Truthhurt, and old women like me too. Shame, must be that he cannot handle a real woman his age group. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Blackstone.lebs
@Oldlady5
RE: your comment on the Chris Hani murder
++++++++++++++++
you may want to check MAIL & GUARDIAN article dated January 31, 1997 titled "New evidence in Hani death plot" Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
SharpSharp
Sakaza
@Shapshap
we have estates that valued at millions whith electric fence, 2 kilometers away people are living in shacks with sh****t all over the place, just guess who stays in estates and who stays in shacks and why?
====================================
If this is how u explain rich and poor then i rest my case cos Mandela has nothing to do with ppl who choose to start staying in shackss and those in estate. By the way Phola Park in Thokoza, Winnie Mandela Tembisa etc were there even before Mandela released frm prison... Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
oldlady5
Sakaza, I understand what you say, but just think about this. In 1642, ten years before the white man arrived here, what were black people living in, and bear in mind white people were already living in houses then. Report Abuse
"The documents raise the question why MI, prewarned, had done nothing to prevent Hani's death. More surprisingly, they claim an unidentified group of African National Congress operatives had ahand in Hani's death." Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
SharpSharp
Sjekula
Do hind behind tribes and tibalist thing...
Lets clear this one once and for all do you have a problem with this statement and what is it that u r not comfortable with"OK, I will recommend Long Walk To Freedom to those who didnt read it... inlcuding m opedi woo wa Ngobeni...."
I can see that you are starting to lose ur mind, let me help u understand so that u do nt end up exposing urself...I can see that u have started with insults...READ THE ABOVE STATEMENT VERY EVRY VERY SLOW AND tell me whats wrong with that.... Report Abuse
@Oldlady
i just don't understand what got to do with the current SA situation, i think we should stop thinking about them and start focus on us make butter days for our black children and I must emphasise we must invest in the future, its not about us but for our generatins to legacy.
@Sharphsrp
you need to grow or catch a wake up Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
The-Rothschilds - Of course :P
Inferno - Act I, havent played much since then though. Back to my BF3 and Eve online schedule. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
The-Rothschilds - The gold spammers have been p***ing me off bigtime. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
The-Rothschilds - The day I rolled wizard, Diablo said GG. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
CYBORICO
let the oldman come out clean, he did his part, if there is something to be said let him come out and say it, it will teach many of future leaders the concept of accountability, success comes with compromise we know that, lets just here from him what compromises were made, he'll still be a hero in our hearts Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sjekula
@SharpSharp
You meant to degrade that Ngobeni guy, thought being Shangaan is less human, started labeling me Shangaan, I didn't mind that because you were just being plain du.mb, and by the way, you win baba/mama, whatever you are, you should be happy now, phuma kimi. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
SharpSharp
Sjekula
I just posted that comment purposefully cos i did know that someone will react to it without lookinng at it...This is the kind of ppl we have in SA when ever you say blaak or whhite they start raising voice saying you r raciiissst. And if black on black they will say you are tribalist blh blah blh....
We are still having a long way to go in terms of us understading each without naming one another tribalist raccccist etc. Some never had the opportunity to express themself by they tribal names without feeling demeaning...it is a lesson which we all need to acquire for us to move forward...It is very difficult to accept whiiite ppl while we dont fell comfortable in calling each other Zullllus.Xhossssaaa,Pedissss Shaaaaanganes etc.We still have long way to goooooooooo Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
SharpSharp
Sakaza
@Sharphsrp
you need to grow or catch a wake up
=====================
Sakazy, what it's got to do with the current situation is that once the white man arrived here, the first thing he did was start building houses. The black man didn't worry about houses for many moons after that, as the earth was his house, so it stand to reason that Africa in general will have a huge backlog in houses compared to other continents. But yes, I agree with you, we must start looking at how to save this country for our children, and theirs, and to continue comparing the one colour's riches to the other colour riches will do nothing to change the situation. The building of RDP's also cannot keep up with the demand for RDP's, so we, as a nation, will have to find another solution. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
STOPA
ngobeni le a phapha mang, leaders of apartheid,i mean the boers are the ones who must apologise to the blacks not the liberators, Report Abuse
"The documents raise the question why MI, prewarned, had done nothing to prevent Hani's death. More surprisingly, they claim an unidentified group of African National Congress operatives had ahand in Hani's death."
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The last edition of the defunct New Nation, spelled it out that a meeting held on the 8th of April 1993, where Joe Modise and Thabo Mbeki were present sealed Hani's fate. It also alleged that Hani and Waluz met face to face at the Carlton Centre. Also if one digs deep, who gave the order for Hani's bodyguard to be off, when the right wingers were baying for his blood, because a research revealed that he was the second popular leader after Madiba? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
S1nude1ty
STOPA - Eish, another tribalist. Wasnt it Vlok that apologised for apartheid? He washed feet in this sentiment. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
SharpSharp
This days ppl are afraid to call each other Zulllu boy, Xhosaaaaa son, mfana wa mo pedi, Mfana wa Moshaaaangane etc.It is not an insult guys wake up this is SA, Report Abuse
SharpSharp - Its true, I dont mind being called a "bo3r" at all. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sakaza
@Sharpahrp
do you really some people prefer living in shacks? or i'm not getting you correctly Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
RobinH
Cowgirl: Forget about getting any form of reasoning from our poor semi-literate Secretary. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
SharpSharp
Sjekula
@SharpSharp
You meant to degrade that Ngobeni guy, thought being Shangaan is less human, started labeling me Shangaan, I didn't mind that because you were just being plain du.mb, and by the way, you win baba/mama, whatever you are, you should be happy now, phuma kimi.
===========================
Ok thanks i did nt mean to win if that is what u call it....sharp sharp Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
LESSON.1
SharpSharp
This days ppl are afraid to call each other Zulllu boy, Xhosaaaaa son, mfana wa mo pedi, Mfana wa Moshaaaangane etc.It is not an insult guys wake up this is SA,
=====================================
The-Rothschilds - Yeah, D3 was quite a letdown. Short game. Little replayability. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
SharpSharp
Sakaza
@Sharpahrp
do you really some people prefer living in shacks? or i'm not getting you correctly
==========================================
Yes many ppl prefer living in shacks...They were given RDP houses but they sell them and go back to Shacks. It is thier chose and Madela has nothing to do with that...
======================================
S1nude1ty
SharpSharp - Its true, I dont mind being called a "bo3r" at all....Ok mfana wa le Bo3r... Just call me mfana wa Mopedi i dont mind tooo
Those people work hader than a man working at the mine? I dont think so.
this is what is holding us down, you start by helping inside the house and you go solo
DOWN WITH CAPITALITS MENTALITY
ITS NOT ALL ABOUT YOU BUT FOR THE COUNTRY Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
CYBORICO
@Tabza325is
that oldlady303 wont even understand what u wrote, she got ET and AWB smoke coming out of every opening in her body, evething touched by a black man is not worth it to her.
there would be no global warming if black people had their way, everything was recyclable Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
SharpSharp
LESSON.1
SharpSharp
This days ppl are afraid to call each other Zulllu boy, Xhosaaaaa son, mfana wa mo pedi, Mfana wa Moshaaaangane etc.It is not an insult guys wake up this is SA,
=====================================
Like Mfana wa Lekwapa ?
====================================
SharpSharp - Ja meneer. Much respect. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sjekula
@SharpSharp
Calling each other by tr.ibes depends on the context, you said "including leshang.aane la-Ngobeni", if I may ask, isn't there a difference between Le.pedi and Mo.pedi? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
Sjekula
@SharpSharp
Calling each other by tr.ibes depends on the con.text, you said "including leshang.aane la-Ngobeni", if I may ask, isn't there a difference between Le.pe.di and Mo.p.edi? Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
rasefatee
Tabza325is
@oldlady5
Sakazy, what it's got to do with the current situation is that once the white man arrived here, the first thing he did was start building houses. The black man didn't worry about houses for many moons after that, as the earth was his house, so it stand to reason that Africa in general will have a huge backlog in houses compared to other continents
========================================
this is why people like oldlady5 should just leave this country with their arrogant stereotype mentality of undermining black people of this country and life would have been better is if they were not here let them fkof Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
The-Rothschilds
Sakaza
@TheRothchilds
Those people work hader than a man working at the mine? I dont think so.
this is what is holding us down, you start by helping inside the house and you go solo
DOWN WITH CAPITALITS MENTALITY
ITS NOT ALL ABOUT YOU BUT FOR THE COUNTRY
=============================================================================
It is not a capitalists fault that some people in our society aspire to work in a mine shaft...................and who are you to say that a person hitting a rock all day has harder work than a CEO who has sleepless nights trying to run a global company in uncertain times?
There is no skill in hitting a rock, im sure even a Ch.impanzee can be taught this skill. Why should people who aspire for such a low skilled unproductive job be entitled to the assets of someone else who took the time to really aspire to be something great?
Today I have to make a contribution, straight to it, Tata started secret talks with the previous government in 1981 if i am not mistaken till late eighties then came the codesa meetings in Eastrand a mere formality in my opinion. The then democtratic government took office in 1994 and there came the window of opportunity 2thirds majority we could've changed the constitution but we didn't, second elections i think we still had the 2thirds majority still we didn't. Secondly the biggest mistake ever made by P.W.Botha was to underestimate the black youth of south africa and he lived to regret it, point being when the ANC took power they made a similler mistake by ignoring the state of education which is almost disfunctional to say the least and that act alone undermined the black youth of south africa and the future of the country as a whole. The prime minister of Japan once said Africans will always be slaves because they are sprinters and can't run marathons. we think and live for today and we never invest in our communities and in the future of our children hence our leaders are now failing to invest in education which is only way to ensure that we breed intellegent leaders maybe not now but in years to come and those years would have been almost now had we begun in 1994. But guess what we are still throwing insults at one another even we now have plartforms like these to engage each other all you hear slurs and curses instead progressive robust debates. Mandela is no saint but I AINT JUDGIN THE MAN TILL I WALK ON HIS SHOES. ANCLY is calling for free education instead of quality high standard education for our children is what will sustain this country going forward. Some have Land first and all will follow forgeting that we are fighting a sychological warfare therefore it should be QUALITY EDUCATION FIRST AND ALL ELSE WILL TAKE OF CARE OF ITSELF. In as much as there is some truth in AZAPO's statement bear in mind that article by Winnie Mandela which was quickly swept under the carpet by the NEC, so the isn't new at all and as udults we have to make hard decisions and@times even we are not proud of the things we have done and Mandela is no exception. AZAPO is not taking us anywhere with this. Let the government reed itself of corruption, invest in sport, education and importantly our culture. I mean these guys receive qualified audits year in and year out and it's normal. I quess we should blame Mandela for that too. Delegates at conferences continue to vote for mediocre leaders and that must be Mandela's fault too I could go on and on but here it is HANDS OFF MANDELA ESPECIALY WHEN HE CAN NO LONGER DEFEND HIMSELF. Report Abuse
Jun 12, 2012
ONEE
Very true there's one thing people must know about human beings in their culture classes.
Black people are very few who has access into credit
and most white people are swiming to debts with most things you see enjoying and you think we are the worst Report Abuse
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Comments
rasefatee
Ngobeni hahahahhahahaha azapoReport Abuse
Bobodlwane
This is pure madness Leave Mandela alone.Dont you think he suffered enough by staying in jail for 27 years without commiting crime....????Report Abuse
sh!tFaceSamsung
hehehehehehehe Mzansi fosho alive with possibility!Report Abuse
ISMORNACHIES8
Ngobeni,U are mad mi boi nxa sies !Report Abuse
Secretary
Yes let him apologise.I am ANC member,but i agree with AZAPO on this point.Our intial aims was to grab our land and economy to black people,but the blacks are still struggling and are facing freedom trauma. Juju has all correct.Report Abuse
lindsay
yagagagagagaggaggawell at least now we know you Amukelani before this you were faceless but then people will do anything to be noticed
Report Abuse
Stumaeza
Please AZAPO not again...last week it was your comments on Bafunny Bafunny & now it's da Old Man! Are you seeking attention or what?Report Abuse
Secretary
Tata apologise without fear or favour.Report Abuse
Sboro
No wonder organisations such AZAPO have never risen above themeselves - they are very much into academic hairy fairy stuff, theorising, intellectaulizing and hair-splitting, thus losing grassroot understanding and support.Report Abuse
MommaC
Do the other 6 members of Azapo YL agree with him?I am sick of these various YL puppies who keep yapping about issues that they are clueless about.
Report Abuse
1723nevus24
Let him apologise he sold us by agreeing to power sharing.Report Abuse
Bra_NeatDick
I think Mandela should repent to god before he dies . I would like to see him dying a christian. (dats about more politically correct)Report Abuse
Stumaeza
SecretaryYes let him apologise.I am ANC member,but i agree with AZAPO on this point.Our intial aims was to grab our land and economy to black people,but the blacks are still struggling and are facing freedom trauma. Juju has all correct.
@Secretary
How were you planning to grab your land & economy? not all the blacks are struggling & even white people are struggling this days. Juju is living large bcos of Mandela...
Report Abuse
guiliano
This statement should be treated with the contempt that it deserves.Report Abuse
selahlasello
YEAR I YHINK HE MUST JUST ADMIT AND APOLOGISEReport Abuse
Wanani
Is this necessary?Report Abuse
Insider
Thank you for speaking the truth Amukelani.Truth hurts but it heals
Report Abuse
Phunyukabemphethe
Seeking for public stunt infact what a crap is Ngobeni talking about, we do not covet anything from any nation except their respectReport Abuse
Chresmo
@ all wu r against what AZAPO is saying... what did mandela's much fought freedom has done for the current youth? we thot everything was going to b free angithi, ya'll are now complaining abou the Water and Electricity nw e-tolls, i waited 4 to long 2 hear the truth 4rm Mandela, We are still ruled by whites and mandela knew they are going to rule 4evr maan NXA..Report Abuse
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
It's too late brothers we just have to live with it.Report Abuse
Naivegirl
So now it is Mandela's fault that the ANC cannot deliver. This country is becoming a circus with too many clowns.Report Abuse
Sasafrican
Oh azapo ,no wonder you cant even garner 2% support,go join anc for freebies bra,some of us are ok working for a living,its 18years now and even if the ruling party can grab all the land in the world ngeke uneke nencane ,it will all be for them,so plzReport Abuse
Bdoobs
This is the truest thing I have read in years. Tata sold us for a Noble Peace Prize and thats the reason for the service dilevery demonstration and the lack of service dilevery. Our constitution favour the caucasians while it oppresses the Africans. Thanks for nothing Mandela.Report Abuse
PleaseGetReal1
SecretaryYes let him apologise.I am ANC member,but i agree with AZAPO on this point.Our intial aims was to grab our land and economy to black people,but the blacks are still struggling and are facing freedom trauma. Juju has all correct.
-------------------------------------------------
Dude, people in S.A is living in poverty because they managed in 18 years to expand by more than 12 million people, mothers and fathers who does not have jobs are making children in a country where the government is raiding the coffers and instead of creating jobs, more people are losing jobs. So if people are still struggling they must look in the mirror or ask their parents, WHY?
Report Abuse
PleaseGetReal1
NaivegirlSo now it is Mandela's fault that the ANC cannot deliver. This country is becoming a circus with too many clowns.
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that is unfortunately the way, blame blame blame, but never seeing the 3 fingers pointing back when pointing at someone else.
Report Abuse
Insider
White people made him a world icon because he protected their interests.Chris Hani was against that compromise
Report Abuse
Mr_President
"Azanian People's Organisation's youth league" what a peace of sh!t is this? I only know of one youth league in this country which is ANCYL and the rest are mickey mouse. This one too seek publicity and recognition so a apeal to the ANC to never respond to this palooka to make him and his mickey mouse league famous. Why were they quiet all along hey???Report Abuse
Pointman
This guy is clueless - the "grab back" is indeed going on. But he is losing out because he spends too much time in the shebeen and is on the wrong train where they do not have access to the gravy. Become an ANC member and benefit now bro. Otherwise you will have to be grabbing back from privileged black people and not white people. It is more difficult to do.Report Abuse
Jacobus
Some people are just imprudent and haughty, why ain't they just appreciate what the old man has done for us. They think 27 years behind bars is pap n vlais. for me thats just bul*********sht.Report Abuse
Phunyukabemphethe
@ChresmoMandela does not have direct influence in whatsoever bullshit is occurring currently
Report Abuse
KeRataBasadi
An old man I knew always said, anyone thats revered by the enemy, should not be trusted. But I cannot blame Mandela for basic services not being delivered to the masses, rampant corruption, he gave us Mbeki who at hindsight was/is the most intelligent leader to date and we reversed it by taking a shower with a spear.Report Abuse
Socrates
@Insider..White people made him a world icon because he protected their interests.Chris Hani was against that compromise
I agree with you on this one, Chris was not going to compromise and sell black people,Chris exuded the same resistance from the likes of the most revered struggle icon Robert Sobukwe, who spend more years in jail than Mandela and was not willing to be bought as the latter was
Report Abuse
Bumboklaat
WTF!? Azapo like PAC are like a bunch of ny@ope smoking monkeys! they always use ridiculous tactics to gain publicity!Report Abuse
Naivegirl
@BdoobsAre you really that stupid? So you would've rather fought the old SA army, all their fire power, police and all citizens in a civil war than take the country for yourself with peace. What do you think the outcome of that would've been? FFS grow some F8dfing brain cells please.
You took South Africa - power of more than two thirds to do as you please - AND LOOK WHAT YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED?
Lastly - everyone is yapping about 80% of land in white hands. Do you know how stupid this statement is? Since 1996 the deeds office has never registered any deed in catagory of race. That means that no one in South Africa knows how much land is in white and black hands.
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PleaseGetReal1
BdoobsThis is the truest thing I have read in years. Tata sold us for a Noble Peace Prize and thats the reason for the service dilevery demonstration and the lack of service dilevery. Our constitution favour the caucasians while it oppresses the Africans. Thanks for nothing Mandela.
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Nelson Mandela did not want the countries economy to crash and let 1000's of his own people die of hunger like in Zimbabwe. I think he was a bit, no not a bit, much more clued up and caring about the people of SA than what you could get in your few brain cells.
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Mothata
How does he know that Mandela is going to die before him. Maybe he must apologise to Mandela for this statement before either of them dies.Report Abuse
truthhurt
I would like to speak on behalf of Mr RN Mandela AKA Tata.I did what i had to do at that time, things could have been much worse for South Africa, so whoever feels like i sold them out i am truelly sorry, and if that is not enough than you can go to the nearest e- toll gantrie and go swing on it, i gave all i could give South Africa.
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Stumaeza
WHAT IS AZAPO...WHO IS AZAPO?Report Abuse
SfisoM
this fu**er (Amukelani) should apologise to Mandela. Mandela never acted in a personal capacity, if there is any apology, it should come from everyone who participated in CODESA.@ Amukelani, secret meetings how did you find out those meetings if they were "secret". you just desperate.
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Shredder
I remember someone here on the Sowetan blog say the same thing. @tpaz, was it you? ☺Report Abuse
Sasafrican
@ Chresmo,free???OMG ,grow up ,nothing is free on mother earth,your beloved ANC has taken what is left,you'll have to grab from the few blacks who were lucky to have a dip in the gravy train,jeeeez whites are struggling like most of us,leave them beReport Abuse
Mr_President
JacobusSome people are just imprudent and haughty, why ain't they just appreciate what the old man has done for us. They think 27 years behind bars is pap n vlais. for me thats just bul*********sht.
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The very same so called Amukelani doesn't even have proof of what he is saying but only reading about it, where was he when those talks took place? I bet even his mother was not born when Mandela was serving time in jail for him to get the opportunity to emit that fart he has just emited on this paper. Amukelani is in fact a see out himself period....
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BRA-MAFUTHA
@Mothata precisely my point how does he know his going to die soon......it is statement like this that get people killed, has this boy not yet read the word of scripture u can not curse what God has blessed.Report Abuse
Shredder
@Chresmo - we thot everything was going to b free angithi,======================================================================
No, no, no. You thought everything was going to be free. Where do you think you are, paradise?
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Milaneshu
Only the truth shall set you free...to understand this better watch IN TIME.Report Abuse
ISMORNACHIES8
@Sowetan,Block this article please !!!
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PORQUENOMEQUIERES
@SOWETANBLOCK THIS ARTICLE NOW!
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Mgaraji
Its our youth culture and tradition to mourn, complain, demand, blame, throw tantrum, expect the country to do everything for us while we have unprotected sex, making babies, do not go to school, do not take responsibility, do not participate,not offer any contribution, litter, lack ideas and creativity.Viva laziness viva! Amandla easy life amandla! Phambili ne blame game phambili! Qina ma spoil brats qina!
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Tsar-Rasputin
Tjo!! Bana ba Azapo a bana molao, hence Azapo is performing poorly during electionsReport Abuse
Papgat
ANC is doing the right thing for not responding to a drunker like Ngobeni, because by doing that it will be glorifing a stuperd statement by so called AZAPO youthless league. People should remember that this are the statement made by people who don`t have directions. How can Mandela stays in prison for 27 years for just for selling black and white people. At that time it was not appropriate to talk about the land issues since that will cause a civil war in the country. So the transition was to develop a constitution that will satisfy both the parties, meaning a win-win situation, not a loso-win or lose-lose situation as that will drive a country in civil war. So Mandela and other people are not sell out as claim by uneducated youthless AZAPO.Report Abuse
Cowgirl
ISMORNACHIES8That will amount to censorship but i think i get were you are coming from with that suggestion, this article infuriated me so much.
How dare they, ungrateful morons!
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PORQUENOMEQUIERES
@SOWETANthis is so offensive to us,pls understand!whoever made this staements could get killed,dont u understand..this is our Tata who is now on his sick bed ,old tired and deserve RESPECT!pls i am very offende,this so sensitive.Tata is my everything and most of us wish he could get younger and come to lead us again.I AM SO ANGRY.
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Dandan
SecretaryYes let him apologise.I am ANC member,but i agree with AZAPO on this point.Our intial aims was to grab our land and economy to black people,but the blacks are still struggling and are facing freedom trauma. Juju has all correct.
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in 2004 the anc got 2/3 majority why it was nt necessary for evry bla.ck men to realise that the Const has to be changed where were you and Ngobeni you are very good to talk nothing to do
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NGUVANGUVA
Where there's Smoke There's FireReport Abuse
cornelius
What do these youngsters know about the situation around 1994 ? Mandelas did not act on his own, the whole ANC leadership stood behind him in the negotiations at Kempton Park. The uneducated young brats are not even worthy of mentioning Mandela's name, they should be told to shut the f up.1994 brought democracy and a constitutional order, with reasonable affirmative action and land restitution measures specifically built in. It is simply a wuestion of implementing those measures efficiently and fairly, in a healthy econo9mic climate, and the previously oppressed will start to see the fruits of liberation. The problem is that this ANC government is not up to the task, the problem is not the 1994 settlement.
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lamza
This guy is either was sitting next to hearter or else he was honey wen he was making such a statement..He can say watever he wants to say because of the freedom which was gained through this soldier(s)..where was his grandfather when Mandela and the other crews where in jail after fighting for frredom he is exercising 2day...He needs a shambok...O totetjwe struu..u vukelwe...Report Abuse
fizo
Let him apologise, they did sell us to the whites...we all see, they still have portion of our wealth. we still bag them to feed our stomachReport Abuse
truthhurt
NGUVANGUVAWhere there's Smoke There's Fire
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So what are you trying to say? I think the smoke is coming from your head!
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somaartakeit
@Secretary - LoL except for the anc leaders now like Zim leaders own the land whilst the masses are kept alive on a life saving social grant drip so they can make it to the polls and keep them fat cats well in the trough whilst majority of them live like peasants,as for Azapo call, I don't know whether to laugh or cry, but I think its too simplistic to blame only Mandela when he is not the ONLY leader of the anc, what about Ramaphosas, Sexwale, Zuma's who are all multimillionaires?
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Jelly
It is very disturbing 2 note dt de so called azapooo yl sik political publicity in a very un4tunate way..al along dey hv been dead,n now dey try 2 shw up with deir nonsensical sentiment abt our HERO.One can judge 4rm deir sentiments dt dey lack political maturity and dy knw nothing abt revolution.
our heroes have fought 4 freedom,dey dd der best 2 bring abt de democracy we r enjoyin 2 day..
it is 4 u 2 carry on de struggle 4 economic freedom n wteva,without plying a blame game..
wt hs azapo yl done so far 4 de youth of dis country...?
is not a time 2 blame de past but a time 2 reflect on de past n carry on 2 de future generation..
dey shld b ashamed of such comments if only dey knew n understood de road to democracy..
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DjEp
Mr.Ngobeni, Mlambya, mburhi you are a disgrace to yourself. Mandela is no Angel but his good work exceed by far the hard decisions they made then.Sometime when you propose a girl, not ka Facebook you will agree if she asked can you go naked the whole day for me? all you are doing is trying to win something in her and once you have it, she can kiss her elbow.
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GLAVA
"We must teach the young the truth in the face of such distortion. Speaking truth to power is today the best service we can give those who died so that we may live.We need to ask why the names of Tsietsi Mashinini and Khotso Seatlholo are not celebrated as the leaders of the uprising.
The young must be taught why both these amazing young people, who shook the foundations of white rule, refused to join the ANC in exile or on Robben Island and died members of Biko's Black Consciousness Movement?
I had the privilege of sharing a house with Seatlholo after his period on Robben Island. He understood the Kempton Park negotiations as a sell-out solution to rescue white capital and for the few in power, and that such a democracy would continue the suffering of the black majority." qoute Andile Mngxtama
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PleaseGetReal1
fizoLet him apologise, they did sell us to the whites...we all see, they still have portion of our wealth. we still bag them to feed our stomach
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do you think wealth just fall out of the air, or do you think it comes form hard work, go and ask any rich black or white man with their own business where that money comes from, hard work, tests, fails and success. If you want wealth, work for it.
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snazz
Yoh that kick in the balls to the old man. Tata did have does secret talks but he does but he does not deserve to be cursed like that. Rest In Peace to Robert SobukweReport Abuse
NGUVANGUVA
@truthhurt Drugs are bad small boyReport Abuse
RobinH
EFF OFF AZAPO.Report Abuse
vivla
AZAPO idiots at their best, apologize for what f@#k reason. How is that going to change our current rotten state in South Africa. Land grabbing and all that bullsh&*t will result in this country becoming another Zimbabwe. Like really how stupid are these wannabe politicians. In order for this country to be a better place we need to work in harmony, black&white. Although i think this is going to take years because judging from many comments about this article, some people need a reality check!Report Abuse
Cowgirl
@GLAVAIt is interesting how the youth always praise Tsietsi Mashinini for his role in the liberation struggle and in the same breathe forget to metion the damage he caused the movement while he was in Nigeria...maybe it would benefit others to really learn the truth about Tsietsi Mashinini while in exile before his death.
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PORQUENOMEQUIERES
@Bdoobsgo ask your grandparents to apologise for not doing anything during the struugle while Tata gave up his family and kids to be slaughtered in order for u to get the job u now have and sitting infront of the cp to type rubbish.
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Oshmax
The thinking process is flawed. Mandela delivered a structure for all to thrive in. The ANC should have made the most of the opportunities presented, but they somehow got lost in corruption, cadre deployment, self interest etc.. Dont blame Mandela for that.Report Abuse
PORQUENOMEQUIERES
@breakingAre u lost wena?do we care what u think.
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ONEE
attention seekerReport Abuse
Sasafrican
fizoLet him apologise, they did sell us to the whites...we all see, they still have portion of our wealth. we still bag them to feed our stomach......................................................back to school Fizo asseblief,arent you tired of smoking dat ish?????Mandela is no saint and so are you,@ least now you have access to most things, Mandela nd your grandparents never had a chance ,just be grateful and let tata enjoy his life,He did what he thought was best and i bet you 99% of black south africans agree
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Oshmax
I also think the youth is more sophisticated than assumed by some of their "leaders". The "leaders" continue to take a hard non-sensical , destructive line. I think the youth of today see through that. They see succesful black people, and are beginning to form impressions of what makes them succesful.The destructive , moronic pursuit of vengeance, may ring true for some, but not, I think for the majority. These "leaders" should not underestimate the newfound sophistication of our youth.
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SexyAngel
Amukelani - At least he did not sit on his backside and pray that things fall into place. He "negotiated", like you rightfully said, and fought for what he believed was right. If you feel it doesn't work for you, then get up and do something about it, instead of blaming those who tried.Report Abuse
Cowgirl
@breakingHopefully you enjoyed your two minutes of fame....! besides that's the only way you can make yourself relevant these days.....hhhhhhhhahahahahahah, your tea lady and garden boy aren't giving you enough attention at home?
Godday baas/madam!....
Signed: black sister who has nothing but love for the schizophrenic whitey.
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cocolucho
@all mornings.These fools should just shut up and sit down. They know nothing about the struggle, they only know how to create a struggle for themselves. Grow up and learn to do things for yourself thats the only way that your struggle will end...and to think that I was actually thinking of voting for them next election,just lost my vote....anyone know of other parties to vote for?
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DA-DBN-GUY
Are AZAPO still around????Mandela did not sell out the blacks it is the current anc leadership under the shower head that has sold out the country as a whole! Policies are in place to rectify the ills of the past but the anc has failed to implement and steer the policies efficiently and in some cases at all!!!!
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SexyS411
Amukelani you Bloody fool,What have you done to contributed to this country?All u do is Nyhweeeeeee,You're now free to say such things because of Nelson MandelaPlease just grow up and stop acting like a fool and PLEASE respect Tata,and ''IF'' he's gonna die before you die,let him enjoy his last moments on Earth,UNLIKE you he never enjoyed his youth,
Just SHUT UP
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Milaneshu
This is not an accident it is a man-made thing and can be removed by the actions of human beings.Report Abuse
truthhurt
NGUVANGUVA@truthhurt Drugs are bad small boy
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I want a street fight with you, then we will see who is a small boy.
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Sir.JT
but honestly is it Mandela's fault that most blacks don't want to work hard to earn? That's Adam's fault and God punished us for it. So now, all we can do is study and work hard. the problem with our youth this days is that they opt for the simplest route and think they'll get rich quickly and all that. yes Politically you can insult bo Mandela le bo Zuma for fellow politicians to think u r tough and clever and you'll be given a top position for talking nonsense like Malema. nxa.But as for this clown, i bet he doesn't even have a girlfriend. *Sit down*
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PORQUENOMEQUIERES
@Vivlathanks girl.to be honest ,ke kwatile baby girl....I LOVE TATA WITH ALL MY HEART, the day God takes him away will be the saddest day of my life,he did what he could.im so angry ...sobono sa ka sea tjhesa mona mo keleng.
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MGEEZ
Leave the old men alone!!! Why wait until he is 94 yrs old? The men was hear all along for crying out loud and A.z.apo never raised this matter whilst he had all his faculties to debate this matter with them. Your timing is questionable Speaking evil of dignitaries does not qualify you as one!!!Report Abuse
Cowgirl
@RobinHYou know some people come here just to stir the pot....i am actually beating myself up for having fallen for that lame attempt by that idiot....i'm having a rough day and some fool almost causes me to pop a vein.
Damn i need to relax!
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NGUVANGUVA
@truthhurt I see u forgot to take your pills again!!! Dont do street fights with kids!!Report Abuse
vivla
@PORQUENOMEQUIERES we have something in common,I love Tata. I even share a birth date with him, which (mind you) I flaunt with prideReport Abuse
PleaseGetReal1
OshmaxThe thinking process is flawed. Mandela delivered a structure for all to thrive in. The ANC should have made the most of the opportunities presented, but they somehow got lost in corruption, cadre deployment, self interest etc.. Dont blame Mandela for that.
Well Said,
Breaking is a ancyl kid who is trying to flame up the blog, ignore him.
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Shaangrito
Amukelani what are you smoking combrade? wahi poliya maan sies!!!Report Abuse
RobinH
Cowgirl: Sure. I understand. But as a paleface who worked hard "in the struggle" I feel seriously aggrieved by such racism from people who happen to share my paler pigmentation, and the sheer absurd arrogance with which they make truly disgusting pronouncements in the name of my culture and people, a vast number of whom share my commitment to a non-racial, liberated South Africa, free from oppression by wealth or race or gender. I feel it almost my duty to tear them to shreds, as one statement like that unfortunately resonates with those less sophisticated than you or I, and therefore creates a skewed and sick opinion of me and my people.Report Abuse
MGEEZ
DA-DBN-GUYAre AZAPO still around????
Mandela did not sell out the blacks it is the current anc leadership under the shower head that has sold out the country as a whole! Policies are in place to rectify the ills of the past but the anc has failed to implement and steer the policies efficiently and in some cases at all!!!!
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Does is it really matter who sold who out? Why are people not removing the ruling party if they are unhappy about it? The truth is that whether we like it or not the ANC is a party runned by a collective; just like communist China (I hope you get what I mean) and the majority of our people are very happy to have them in power because they believe it's their time to eat!!!! Said but real.
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lerotse
Most of people who are commeting here are those who were born/became conciouse after 1994. Read the process of "Negotiated Settlement " the so called CODESA and find out why Mandela went on to negotiate whilst t PAC and AZAPO went out of negotiations.Ask why did he opt to go on .Its because there was a bargain ."YOU LEAVE US WITH WHAT WE HAVE NOW (LAND) AND YOU GO TO PARLIAMENT ,STAY IN TOWN AND YOUR KID GO TO "MODEL C SCHOOLS WITH OURS".This was enough for him to say its fine .There are lot of african countries that were independent before SA .Why him and de klerk can be given the noble peace what ever. Its because he saved the white majority by giving them the most important thing in every citizens life LAND .Were in Europe can you have Africans own hectors and hectors of land .
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PORQUENOMEQUIERES
@vivlayou are so blessed to be born on the same day with TATA,I wish i was ,im so jealous Congrats girl!!!!
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Insider
You can try in vain to hide the truth, it can take years, decades and even centuries but eventually it will come out. God is great all the time.Report Abuse
Oshmax
LEROTSEOh dear, blacks in Europe can own land, as much as they wish, and they do. But that's not the issue. The issue is that government has not delivered on an opportunity Mandela so carefully crafted in the interests of all of us.
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Fanle
Some people have a lot of time in their hands. I respect the ANC for not replying to this rubbishReport Abuse
CHANGEISGOOD
THE TRUTH HURTS@LEROTSE, YOU ARE 100% CORRECT MY FRIEND, WE ALSO LOVE TATA BUT WE MUST NOT LET OUR EMOTIONS TO CONTROL OUR JUDGEMENT,
CODESA CONCLUSION\AGREEMENT WAS NOT MADE PUBLIC DUE TO THE SOLD BLACKS.
DO YOU ALL REMEBER WHEN SHIVHAMBU ATTACKED CYRIL RAMAPHOSA ABOUT BEING A SELL OUT? HE WAS ONE THE NEGOTIATORS.
OVERALL PPL JUST TALK WITHOUT FACT.
THE TRUTH DAMN HURTS, TATA SOLD US, THATS THE REASON MOST OF BLACK STILL LIVE IN POVERTY & THE WHITES STILL ENJOY THE RESOURCES & WE WORK FOR THEM & MAKE THEM RICHER EVERY YEAR.
AMANDLA!!
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RobinH
Lesson.1: Here's lesson two for you. Responding to racism with racism is also racism.Report Abuse
SAMETHING
AZAPO YL & ANC YL have shown how unhappy they are with the current economic situation.The mass too on the ground have shown how unhappy through service delivery protests.
So are we all gonna pretend everything is okay here?
Are the minority & the handfull senior ANC leaders will continue to be ignorant too?
It is not okay here.
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Moriskie
Some people need to think before the can speak, how did Madiba sell us out.Report Abuse
lerotse
Oshmax u r not honest to yourself .Were in Europe do an African person own land like what we see when driving on every road in SA. Go to Freestate,limpopo ,Mpumalanga ,Northern Cape <westernCape wine lands .All the vast land is owned by white .They even own more land than they did during aparthein .Its because ANC had no policy on every department of governance when they take over. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT .THIS IS FOR THE FUTURE OF MY AND YOUR KIDS .Report Abuse
RobinH
Samething: Sure, it's not okay here. But what has that got to do with demanding that Mandela apologise? THINK!Report Abuse
PleaseGetReal1
CHANGEISGOODTHE TRUTH DAMN HURTS, TATA SOLD US, THATS THE REASON MOST OF BLACK STILL LIVE IN POVERTY & THE WHITES STILL ENJOY THE RESOURCES & WE WORK FOR THEM & MAKE THEM RICHER EVERY YEAR.
The reason is that there is 12 million extra people in SA since 94, does not help to point fingers at anyone when people are breeding like rabbits who is unemployed and still want to put the blame for poverty somewhere else. WAKE THE F UP YOU IMBECILE.
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Oshmax
CHANGEISGOODI cant believe that you write nonsense like this. You must be a very bitter man. I hope you dont teach your children this. Let them grow up and achieve all they want to and can. That is mandela's legacy.
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Cowgirl
I wish people could stop writting in CAPS lock as that is plain rude....hope you catch my drift! not holding my breathe though as that probably flew over that brick you might call a head.I would like to pose a question to all those who feel that Mandela sold us out....how would you have liked the ANC to have handled the negotiations?...note i mentioned the ANC and not Mandela as he was not the only one who was negotiating a resolution....most of you lack understanding of politics and the impact of other alternatives had they decided to entertain any. It becomes pointless in debating/discussing anything with you lot cause you are too ignorant to comprehend anything...
Damn bornfrees who have no intentions of understanding their history and just repeat what their sheeben counterparts spew on their drinking spree...read and learn domkops!
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rasefatee
This boy is Amukelan disrespectfu.l just like juju they don’t consider age difference when they open their big mouth full of shiit where was he in 1986 blooody small boyReport Abuse
RobinH
Cowgirl: I truly admire your thinking on this issue.Report Abuse
NGUVANGUVA
@truthhurt Your problem is this: You got two Brains the one is Lost the other is Out looking for it!!!Report Abuse
LESSON.1
@RobinHYou so jajarag that's what i noticed - (You stup1d M0nkey)
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MommaC
One of the biggest problems our 'youth' have is ignorance. If they could go to a country that has been (or is) in the grip of civil war, they wouldn't make these foolish statements,Report Abuse
scapiso
AZAPO go to hell with your bull sh**t. You have a freedom of speech coz of this old man just appreciate you looser comradesReport Abuse
THUTLWANE
OKAY! this is very sensitive and have all made our minds about utata. yes he is a political hero but what if ther is some truth in what this guyz are sying? come to think about it who knows what was agreed on during CORDESSA?( I am not sure of the spelling there). I am just clarifying because some people are always looking for mistakes.One can ask themselfs questions like, If ground roots people like me can see the need for a better education system, why cant our leaders see that? The economic imbalance is clear to the man on the street are you telling me that still our leaders are blind to that as well? The youth league speaks of nationalisation of mine and people get expulsion. Something is fishy. You do not spend 27 yrs of your in prison and achieve so less. Our struggle is only beneficiary to the minority and that is a fact. All the follen african countries had something to do with what thier leaders has agreed to during negitiations. It is clear we are next.
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RobinH
Lesson.1: Ja ja. And the same to you. Have a wonderful day.Report Abuse
LESSON.1
@RobinH = AKA Robin HighlandHave a wonderful day too and dont forget to brush your teeth next time
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Cowgirl
@RobinHIt truly upsets me to think that there are people amongst us who believe that a civil war would have been a solution, their argument is that we should have taken up arms for our freedom..what they lack to understand is that there are NO WINNERS in war, can you imagine where we would have been as a country had they entertained the beliefs of Chris Hani and Joe Slove during those negotiations.
These fools need to look around Africa to see the results of a war, which in most cases would have been avoided had people decided to put their massive EGO's aside and do what is beneficial for the people.
I command those who were part of those negotiations for having had the courage to see beyond their selfish needs and putting the people of the Republic first, those who were negotiating set us apart from the rest of the Continent and for that i am eternally grateful...sacrifices had to be made which is why it was called a NEGOTIATION.
Oh on another note...these lazy people need to get off their behinds and start doing things for themselves and stop expecting handouts cause that seems to be the main reason why they are pissed off with the current status...they expected things to fall from the sky....aint going to happen lazy bums.
Get up and do it for yourself or suffer the consequences of being lazy....the entitlement mentality is not going to get you far in this life my lazy friends.
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RobinH
Cowgirl: Exactly.Report Abuse
Tasto
No amount of insults or character assisnation will suffice but truth is a bitter pill sometimes.Who knows abt "Talks about Talks" meeting ? Who knows or where are the Groote Schuur minutes ? Especially to amavarara on this blog if you can answer!! Do you know what Tambo saud to Mandela when they met for the first time? Probably since the day Mandela was incacerated at RobbenIlsand the devil\NP was tempting him to denounce violent armed struggle !!Report Abuse
SharpSharp
Azapo wanted to remind us that they are still exist this is far from being serious....Just a JOKE.Report Abuse
MarryMe
Well now people want Mana to fall from heaven. How much can one man do. Is it not enough? I support those who say the struggle goes on. The man has done his part, somebody take over and leave the old man alone to enjoy the little time he has lefft on this world. Even Jesus did not do everything, he sent the Holy Spirit to continue were he left off. Come on now!!Report Abuse
Candyboy
@CowgirlI love you....almost wrote that in CAPS.....*blowing kisses*
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Secretary
If Tata does not apologise in this one,they should take him back to Roben-iland to rot nicely in there. We must actually confiscate the land of our fore fathers from our well known thiefs(whites).Mandela entered in secret talks and agreed on a compromised constitution. We will be happy even if we can get a secret apology......Report Abuse
Tasto
Ppl its so serouis even the ruling party is butt of the joke in drinking circles, called managers not rulers of this country with political office no political power(busy want to change constitution daily) and no economic power except few co-opted blacks & Chacellor House even the black billionares are not taken serouisly because they did not sweat for their wealth!!Report Abuse
Zezinho
The system failed to let us get involved only a selected few such as BEE. The system needs to change. You can not hop up and down with your blame game because it won’t help us with anything. What we need is a solution to the crisis not blame. That is our current challenge as Mzansi, we are busy pointing fingers instead of looking for solutions. You can not just say, I want economic participation while you are sitting at the corner and doing nothing about your development.Come up with something concrete maybe I will listen to you because what you just said shows a lack of maturity and a lack of understanding.
U nga hi khomisi tingana kam!!!
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Cowgirl
@CandyboyYou would have been forgiven if you had written that in CAPS cause i LOVE YOU TOO....kikikikikiki, people need to move away from the sheeben talk and use their own braincells to think for a change.
They are yet to come up with any alternatives as to what the ANC should have done instead of the current settlement, all they are good at is shooting from the hip about issues they know nothing about.
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Shredder
@PleaseGetReal1 - The reason is that there is 12 million extra people in SA since 94, does not help to point fingers at anyone when people are breeding like rabbits=======================================================================
You! Nxa!
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Secretary
Azapo got it right. How on earth can you suffer for 27 years in jail while black people are dying outside and do not compensate the lost souls by giving their items (LAND and COWS) back after your victory? We are suffering because of him (Tata). I do buy it fosek Tata!!!Report Abuse
PleaseGetReal1
ShredderYou! Nxa!
I hope Nxa!, Yes Please get real, you are 100% right!
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S1nude1ty
Secretary - Do you want my PC too, because apparently I stole that from you too.Report Abuse
Secretary
@TastoThats rubbish. YOU ARE RUBBISH
Except Chris Hanni and the mass
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Papage
Why did you wait for all this years 18 and then you come up with your Kak story, AZAPO can go to hellReport Abuse
PleaseGetReal1
Sorry should have read,Shredder
You! Nxa!
I hope Nxa!, means ,,, ,,,,Yes Please get real, you are 100% right!
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LESSON.1
@SecretaryTata was born to rot in jail
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Heey you Chicken Licken waitress - did you just stole some1's Hot wings for your lunch ?
only ppl like you was born to rot in jail.
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Sasafrican
@Thutlwane,achieved so less,who exactly,arent billions wasted day in and day out by ANC,he spent 27 years and your beloved party 18 yrs into democracy destroying everything and everyone who dares differ with them,I say it again,let the man enjoy his life,wena nje u all who keeps blaming and blaming need to get a lifeReport Abuse
Secretary
@S1nude1tyThe PC you are talking about is via the exchange of goods. You gave europeans our cows and they blocked your mouth with PC
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Quicktrick
children should be seen and not heardReport Abuse
Cowgirl
SecretaryAzapo got it right. How on earth can you suffer for 27 years in jail while black people are dying outside and do not compensate the lost souls by giving their items (LAND and COWS) back after your victory? We are suffering because of him (Tata). I do buy it fosek Tata!!!
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Is that you breaking?
Some people never fail to amaze me...there is nothing as a free lunch skat! don't tell me you actually believed the election rhetoric in 94 which said...everything in the new South Africa will be free...that was just election talk boet.....even my 4 year old would have been able to understand that....you disappoint me!
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CHANGEISGOOD
@OSHMAXI'm not bitter my friend. just saying something as it is my friend, the legacy you talking about will be pure bulls*-/t, we are talking fact here, and we are asking a questing what was the conclusion or agreemnt of CODESA?
Mandela & company had a freedom chater to aadhere to when negotiating for a new South Africa, some of you are talking about wars, it seems like you are derailing fron the the topic, that TATA sold us when negotiating, he was not alone, even Cyril Ramaphosa was company of the team.
all we asking was for better life for all of us who live in South Africa, we knew things must happen gradually but due to the constitution some other chnages can't take place
So please go & read the CODESA agreement.
even my boy Malema did not have the guts to call a spade a spade due to we all know it is a sensitive matter. please note we all love TATA for his participation in the strugle & we can't take away his legacy of fighting strugle.
AMANDLA!!
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Tabza325is
@Cowgirl, "what they lack to understand is that there are NO WINNERS in war"That's the whole point of such people since they have the shot hand of fortune they figure we might as well all loose, same as a successfull or rich person does not feel the need to share the countrie's wealth with others and that if one is in porverty then hard luck for them they must find thier way out of porverty, same as you believe such people are lazy as you also don't acknowladge thier up-hill struggle to escape the circle of porverty.
Mandela's is the world's sweet heart of the world as much as AZAPO might have a point it is too late for any apologies as most of those who were part of the collective then have passed away, it's now out of place for such a request.
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Secretary
@CowgirlYou are just a cow. How on earth will you ever feel proud with the truth. Tata should explain why after our victory we could not get our estate back and economy. White people robbed Tata and Tata spread the decease to all of us.
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Candyboy
@Cowgirl@Candyboy
You would have been forgiven if you had written that in CAPS cause i LOVE YOU TOO....kikikikikiki, people need to move away from the sheeben talk and use their own braincells to think for a change.
They are yet to come up with any alternatives as to what the ANC should have done instead of the current settlement, all they are good at is shooting from the hip about issues they know nothing about.
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My cowgirl.......you have so much energy that's going to waste trying to change peoples midset....we can put that to good use ma sweet pea.....i have an alternative for you....how about I get my Spanish Bull Fighting Outfit ready and shoot from my hip, while you whisper in my ear the issues you are good at...*winks*
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PleaseGetReal1
SecretaryAzapo got it right. How on earth can you suffer for 27 years in jail while black people are dying outside and do not compensate the lost souls by giving their items (LAND and COWS) back after your victory? We are suffering because of him (Tata). I do buy it fosek Tata!!!
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What would you have liked him to do, declare a civil war and the SADF would have had to contract out companies to dig mass graves for all the people that would have been killed and the SADF decreasing the black majority to the minority or do a peaceful transition.?
What did you want?
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LESSON.1
@Cowgirl@Secretary
Azapo got it right. How on earth can you suffer for 27 years in jail while black people are dying outside and do not compensate the lost souls by giving their items (LAND and COWS) back after your victory? We are suffering because of him (Tata). I do buy it fosek Tata!!!
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Is that you breaking?
Some people never fail to amaze me...there is nothing as a free lunch skat! don't tell me you actually believed the election rhetoric in 94 which said...everything in the new South Africa will be free...that was just election talk boet.....even my 4 year old would have been able to understand that....you disappoint me!
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Dn't be disappointed -(Just ask yourself how old is him ? i think he is still using his birth certificate....
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Chichima
This azapo boy is digging his own grave, Tata did what he had to do if it wasnt for him we would be working in a farm somewhere..we would have this life of luxury that we r having now,Mandela did what he thought was best at the moment..ngobeni is very disrespectful and he should just go straight to hell nxa.Report Abuse
Tasto
@CowgirlI wish people could stop writting in CAPS lock as that is plain rude....hope you catch my drift! not holding my breathe though as that probably flew over that brick you might call a head.
I would like to pose a question to all those who feel that Mandela sold us out....how would you have liked the ANC to have handled the negotiations?...note i mentioned the ANC and not Mandela as he was not the only one who was negotiating a resolution....most of you lack understanding of politics and the impact of other alternatives had they decided to entertain any. It becomes pointless in debating/discussing anything with you lot cause you are too ignorant to comprehend anything...
Damn bornfrees who have no intentions of understanding their history and just repeat what their sheeben counterparts spew on their drinking spree...read and learn domkops!
Thas it my girl , what did Tambo said to Mandela when they meet for the first time ? Have you heard abt the question alleged asked "Who gave you the mandate to talk"? To jog your memory who was the anc president & who went to Groote Schuur ?
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Makhosini0408
Its actually the other way round. We sold Madiba out. When he came out of prison, he said: "I stand before you as a humble servant." He reiterated that he was prepared to pay the highest price in fighting for both bl@ck and wh!te domination.Now we have repaid him for the time that he spent in Robben Island by looting the State coffers, corruption, racism disguised as liberalism, tribalism (100% Z.ulu boy/ X.hosa boy, crime, dysfunctional education system and the list is endless.
Let us remember that he did his best and he left the ANC and government in sound health and now patient ANC and government is in intensive care unit and arrogantly do not want to accept that it is dying a slow painfull death.
Azapo must leave Madiba alone and concentrate on building the party that is in political wilderness and stop being irrelevant and insensitive.
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ONEE
@ Secretary you are the worst faceless human being i have ever heard of , tjooo shameless.what did you want tata to do?
go out there in the farms collecting cows fo you hun heee??
he is not blank minded like you are, wisdom is forever profittable to direct.
many wont like what m about to write now that *tata played his part and we as mostly black africans came to the party with huge basg galloping to only feast with our friends and family, the result of that is evident to what we read on watch on the news averyday. do you mean he was still to come and spoon feed you again. what have you done for your self now let alone the country u useless person??
think with your head and not your emotions that are baseless here, Oppression is still alive bcz a black child is now the biggest player in the field pointing the enemy with one finger while the rest is pointing back to her/him.
let me not say much and leave you to it , but finally u need to realise that politics is a dirty game and dats what AZAPO is doing taking an opportunity capitalising on ANC's mistakes. there is no way now they can after 18 years start tarnishing Mandela's reputation its tooo late.
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S1nude1ty
Secretary - Because I paid 5 cows for my PC.Sorry, my PC and most of my possessions was bought via the exchange of SKILLS. My skills for the goods. My skills involve the manipulation of imaginary 1's and 0's in cyberspace.
Now you think you can just march in here, and tell me that you actually own it, because Im white?
Someone is in dire need of a reality check.
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ONEE
S1nude1tySecretary - Do you want my PC too, because apparently I stole that from you too.
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hahahahahaha I cant help it but laugh...really now?
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S1nude1ty
ONEE - Hehe, why do we have to deal with 16 year olds who think they own land and cows?Report Abuse
LESSON.1
@ONEE@ Secretary you are the worst faceless human being i have ever heard of , tjooo shameless.
what did you want tata to do?
go out there in the farms collecting cows fo you hun heee??
he is not blank minded like you are, wisdom is forever profittable to direct.
many wont like what m about to write now that *tata played his part and we as mostly black africans came to the party with huge basg galloping to only feast with our friends and family, the result of that is evident to what we read on watch on the news averyday. do you mean he was still to come and spoon feed you again. what have you done for your self now let alone the country u useless person??
think with your head and not your emotions that are baseless here, Oppression is still alive bcz a black child is now the biggest player in the field pointing the enemy with one finger while the rest is pointing back to her/him.
let me not say much and leave you to it , but finally u need to realise that politics is a dirty game and dats what AZAPO is doing taking an opportunity capitalising on ANC's mistakes. there is no way now they can after 18 years start tarnishing Mandela's reputation its tooo late.
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You talking to a fly with no harm - Don't use doom , just take your size 5 high heel and moerhom....
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Tabza325is
@Makhosini0408, you repay him, I was born in 1981 and as much as I didn't experiance apartheit to that extend I saw the affects growing up, with also the passing of my cousin in the hand of the South African police force then we all and our families paid our doose, Mandela was not the only one fighting the struggle, many died for the course, we love Mandela but we don't owe him anything.Report Abuse
ONEE
Makhosini0408well said Makhosini reality check will help us build a better nation facing our mistakes as they are in unity. whether in the blogg or in the real world fighting against each while the real crookes are out there enjoying the milk and honey is useless.
what can WE as the youth of this century do, to restore our country, why dont we have forums where we seat as the rainbow nation he dreamt about share ideas without expecting rewards. see where there is a weakest link then flow??
have you tghought that if two can stand up and do something that bring forth good results then the next person myt be interested and wanna join?
The reason the platforms that are available now are useless its because for you to participate it must be about which party you follow and the incentives thereoff.
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ONEE
S1nude1tyONEE - Hehe, why do we have to deal with 16 year olds who think they own land and cows?
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Truth hurts dats the problem.
but all we need in my opinion is to find solutions and not faults, we did that and does not seem to be helping.
If one did Management skill training will agree with me, put much effort on solution than the root cause.
because once you have the solution then its easy to move foward , hence Mandela wanted nothng but peace. look at Zim, it is not in good condition bcz Muggy only wants revenge while the people are suffering and also enjoying the best healthcare system abroad of which he cant even provide for his own people, his children live a sophisticated life, in the midst of poverty he is the king, Mswati too.
do we wanna go back there and be like them or even worse? as for me NO.
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ONEE
@ Lesson.1lol some flies can be irritating into a point you think its a rhino end up taking a wood stick to hit the head.. kwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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S1nude1ty
ONEE - Unfortunately, not enough truth, and too much propaganda here.Report Abuse
kuyozekubenini
Well,we do not know ukuthi iyozala nkomoni.The truth is very souer and has its ways to put all in perspective....... its just a matter of time until the bomb explodes and when it does,i hope people shall have awaken from their deep sleep.I am very afraid that lies will always be protected and amended to siut certain political school of thought and it will depend on what the midia feeds you and what you choose to believe.Ga pinyana e re ping,e utlwa ka tse kgolo le mororo molato o sa e lebagana.Ngwana wa dikgomo ithute molodi mme o gopole motlha malata a ileng.Kgetha nnete o bolokege mme o se itsenye matlho gareng ga ditshaba.All those who are asleep will learn by the grapevine and disseminate a hearsay since they never saw anything but mumble about what they are told.Be hands on and substantiate your arguments.Use qoutes,conscripts,time and place of events but also be able to show based on culculated information to make your point.
So, shoot streight AZAPO and make sure it is not ambiguous and easy to criticise by political bigotry because if you are not careful your argument will lack substance
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Makhosini0408
Tabza325is@Makhosini0408, you repay him, I was born in 1981 and as much as I didn't experiance apartheit to that extend I saw the affects growing up, with also the passing of my cousin in the hand of the South African police force then we all and our families paid our doose, Mandela was not the only one fighting the struggle, many died for the course, we love Mandela but we don't owe him anything.
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Madiba displayed leadership qualities when all wanted to revenge Hani's death, he managed to calm the storm at Soccer City during the burial of Chris Hani. He was the brain behind the stoping of senseless killing of ANC/IFP members in the 90's. All I am saying is that yes to some, he is a hero and Azapo disagrees, but he is the best son of the soil that Mzansi has ever produced. Azapo is out of order.
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ONEE
Tabza325is@Makhosini0408, you repay him, I was born in 1981 and as much as I didn't experiance apartheit to that extend I saw the affects growing up, with also the passing of my cousin in the hand of the South African police force then we all and our families paid our doose, Mandela was not the only one fighting the struggle, many died for the course, we love Mandela but we don't owe him anything.
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very true we owe him nothing except respect for he efforts
but have you pondered on why we keep giving so much money to Mswati and also helping Zim with the tax payers money??
some political analysts keep on reminding us of the past and where we come from dat it is because we owe them favour.
I dont believe its fair, because we give them those moneis but they are not well spent. and the man who spent almost a quoter of his life in jail demands absolutly nothing , yet we have people who fail to bring solutions but start more problems by openning a poisonous smelly can of worms, he sure might have his own ghosts in the closet, but we dont need that now, but a solution
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Bebesocs
Shocked!!!!!!!!! Lets not loose focus.Report Abuse
ONEE
S1nude1tyhopefully oneday we will wake up and smell the coffee.
its too late now for more and more propaganda coz its taking us to NOWHERE
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Zulumacansi
Niyagula nina bafana be Azapo.Report Abuse
LESSON.1
@ONEE@ Lesson.1
lol some flies can be irritating into a point you think its a rhino end up taking a wood stick to hit the head.. kwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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I’m still in shock about what he said- it shows that S.A history to him is an Imaginary *** More like a Ch1nese sangoma***
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Mickeymouse
@Mr presidentwatch out !
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ONEE
CHANGEISGOODWhat you are saying is understandble to me, but my point of argument to AZAPO is why now??
2. in your own opinion from the day ANC took over what has been the hinderence to service delivery?
3. Didnt we at Mandela time have free education, feeding schemes etc? the things that he needed to implement then.
I doubt it would have been good for him to squander tax payers money in one period proviing for all the promises in one go. He left the duty for others to continue.
He was wise enought to stepdown before he is cornered by family and friend to do favours, of which the leaders after him thought they can not step down for each other so that all the skill and expetees can be exercised.
I guess what was discussed in the CODESA was ignored by the leaders that are now on the seats, we hear of all manner of corruption done by GVMNT officials.
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Milaneshu
It has been proven that with 14% of tax the gov can't manage to service the country...so it's needs extra income...which is under the soil on this country...only nationalization will be the solution to this country...Report Abuse
jozburg
but Winnie once said this about Mandela, the person who went to Robben Island is not the same person who came out. What i would like to know is why was the outcome of the negotiations a secret if they were beneficial to everyone in the country??Report Abuse
Cowgirl
Tabza325is@Cowgirl, "what they lack to understand is that there are NO WINNERS in war"
That's the whole point of such people since they have the shot hand of fortune they figure we might as well all loose, same as a successfull or rich person does not feel the need to share the countrie's wealth with others and that if one is in porverty then hard luck for them they must find thier way out of porverty, same as you believe such people are lazy as you also don't acknowladge thier up-hill struggle to escape the circle of porverty.
Mandela's is the world's sweet heart of the world as much as AZAPO might have a point it is too late for any apologies as most of those who were part of the collective then have passed away, it's now out of place for such a request.
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Some of my people seem to think that they are the only ones who have it bad, forgetting that we all had it bad pre 94 and we decided to do something about it post 94, and that is were the difference is between those who made something of their lives without expecting free handouts...it was never going to serve any purpose to moan while life passed us by...it was only going to leave us bitter and feeling like victims of the circumstances....i believe it is a mindset thing and sheer determination to make something of yourself and sorry to say this but when you have none...no amount of blame will help you overcome your circumstances.
People need to stop being selective in their blame game...they should rather blame the ANC for selling them out if they feel that is the case and not put the blame solely on Mandela cause that just exposes the fact that they do not understand our countries politics, the ANC specifically.......THE COLLECTIVE has always been an ANC motto...let it not change now to suit your devious agenda people.
@Secretary
Discussing anything with you is a waste of time cause you sound like a stuck record......i am still asking you ...what would you have liked the ANC to do?....taking out the settlement and civil war that is.
Maybe people need to start being truthful in analysing the current situation and admit that CORRUPTION is the root of the current state of affairs, these current comrades are corruptable and this is something which was an oversight on the part of the leadership of the past cause they had assumed that the ANC would always have leaders with moral compass who would like to see all their people succeed, they didn't bank on the current scum who are in it for themselves and to hell with the masses who live in abject poverty and they are happy keeping them there for as long as they can.
The resources are there but plummeted by the greedy so called comrades which we see in our midst...you can't blame Mnadela for that sh%t.
@Candyboy
The thought of you in that Spanish Bull fighting outfit makes my blood run wild...i see you are a naughty boy today...it must be the weather(cold)
I can't entertain the deliberate ignorance of most here....surely there is no excuse anymore for not educating ourselves about world issues cause the implications of not reaching a settlement had far reaching repurcussions for South Africa and the world as we are not a freakin island as some would like to believe....we operate in a global community and all those things had to be taken into consideration when those negotiations were taking place.
Wake up people and educate yourselves a little more for the sake of your own children.
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ONEE
Lesson.1I’m still in shock about what he said- it shows that S.A history to him is an Imaginary *** More like a Ch1nese sangoma***
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tltltltl dont you think she/he was born in 1994 or after??
so all he/she enjoyed was feeding scheme, free transport to school
freedom of speech ad having access to a pc anywhere by the road side or got a job bcz her friend family memeber works in that organisation without skill with no clue of who he is and where the country he is living in come from. or may be he is not even a SAan..lol
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S1nude1ty
Milaneshu - The first trillion rand budget in the history of South Africa, and its not enough for the government?!Meanwhile, we are paying tens of millions every year for Zuma's wives. We are paying a BILLION RAND for luxury vehicles for MP's...
R30 BILLION goes missing every year due to corruption.
No dude, the money isnt the problem. its the management of it thats the problem.
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RobinH
Secretary: For a secretary your language is pretty poor. Not to mention a trifle objectionable.Report Abuse
LESSON.1
ONEELesson.1
I’m still in shock about what he said- it shows that S.A history to him is an Imaginary *** More like a Ch1nese sangoma***
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tltltltl dont you think she/he was born in 1994 or after??
so all he/she enjoyed was feeding scheme, free transport to school
freedom of speech ad having access to a pc anywhere by the road side or got a job bcz her friend family memeber works in that organisation without skill with no clue of who he is and where the country he is living in come from. or may be he is not even a SAan..lol
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ki ki ki ki ki ki he works at Chicken Licken - i dn't know how he manage to log on to sowetan
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ONEE
Cowgirl....i believe it is a mindset thing and sheer determination to make something of yourself and sorry to say this but when you have none...no amount of blame will help you overcome your circumstances.
People need to stop being selective in their blame game...they should rather blame the ANC for selling them out if they feel that is the case and not put the blame solely on Mandela cause that just exposes the fact that they do not understand our countries politics, the ANC specifically.......THE COLLECTIVE has always been an ANC motto...let it not change now to suit your devious agenda people.
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Cant add neither take anything away from this.
we dont need big english to be wise or make sense. People think we are denying the facts and I guess not but AZAPO shouldnt pick n choose.
@ SOWETAN
I propose a platform for bloggers who wants to see the change of our country positively
some people make sense some they dont but at the end of the day the solution might not lie in the cabinets / parliament but within the ordinaty people on the ground.
we dont want compensation but to have an input that will drive to a change.
Where black,white,indian coloured will throw esivivaneni and the expects review.
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Bdoobs
The stup!d boy Slikkur was sent death threats for his analysis of SA blacks (Blacks are stup!d). Questioning or pointing out mistakes done by Mandela is more like a blasphemy, more like drawing a Prophet Mahomed cartoon, you could be stoned to death. Just like the ANC and Zuma "we need to debate, we need to debate", yet when faced with issues to debate about they lack modesty, which is what they showed when that Khoza boy from Nedcor experienced.Report Abuse
NDA
Thanks azapo someone is saying it without fear.Report Abuse
Cowgirl
@jozburgi bet Mandela said the same thing about Winnie when he came out of prison seeing that she was a completely different woman(not possitively) when he came out of prison....note that i am not taking anything away from Madikizela but i just think she is the last person to throw any stones as she understands all too well that sacrifices had to be made.
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kuyozekubenini
Ikhotha e khothayo ngoba e ngayikhothi izoyi khahlela.South African history is distorted and in many instances falsified.I stand to wonder how much the critic knows since I have not seen or heared what they know.The hogwash from the responding views is very steriotype and does not give bloggers a clue as to where they are coming from.To say the least it is very disturbing to realise that our people are not tolerent and will never give us the truth about what transpired during the CODESA negociations in conjuction to what MADIBA did or did not do.I also cannot understand the role of more than thirtien organisations who went to form the ptriotic front that was latter sidestepped by the ANC who wanted to speak in one voice towards and against the wanton and selfish gains the ANC envissaged.Watch the space,the chickens are coming home to roost.
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ONEE
MilaneshuIt has been proven that with 14% of tax the gov can't manage to service the country...so it's needs extra income...which is under the soil on this country...only nationalization will be the solution to this country...
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I can bet u on my last 5c my brother.
how come did our governent aprove for etoll for R20b if thats the case?? for what
How come that our government is paying child grant, instead of forster care grant only?? promoting child birth before wedlock and school leavers to graduate to HIV n AIDS graduates
How come that our government is paying for HIV n AIDS victims?? encouraging that everybody if they cant get jobs or dont wanna work must hunt for Aids and they will have income.
Wats next?? Nationalise then you can Marry as many wives as you like then there will be compensation for such men who has 20 wives paid per wife and the number of children and also the wife to be paid for being in a polygammy??
Our forefathers did that based on their wealth.
if the nationalisation can be allowed now it will serve their purpose ofclosing the gaps they created through corruption that they can not answer for during financial audits.
It is a way they wanna make sure before they are taken down by another party , they would have finished all the resources, untill when we shall be starting from the scratch fixing problems instead of moving foward?
look at what is Eskom doing increasing rates over and over again giving top top senior staff FAT bonuses living the people who does risky real jobs with nothing.
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Mapholobakay1
As much this is sad, unfortunately it is also true BUT if Mandela and Co. did not negotiate we would be in the same boat as Zimbabwe. The policies that the ANC is implementing now are trying to reverse Mandela's flopp. The policies that Juju was talking about are also trying to reverse Mandela's flopp.We can only hope for the better. The struggle continues.
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Cowgirl
BdoobsThe stup!d boy Slikkur was sent death threats for his analysis of SA blacks (Blacks are stup!d). Questioning or pointing out mistakes done by Mandela is more like a blasphemy, more like drawing a Prophet Mahomed cartoon, you could be stoned to death. Just like the ANC and Zuma "we need to debate, we need to debate", yet when faced with issues to debate about they lack modesty, which is what they showed when that Khoza boy from Nedcor experienced.
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The issue here is the fact that most people distort the truth for their own agenda, it has nothing to do with questioning or pointing Mandela's mistakes....the issue is....lies perpetuated by others.
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lerotse
Azapo was always existing .Most of your so called Coucilors and MECs have diverted from AZAPO and PAC because of the bread that they wanted and behind thier minds to expose the anc that you can invade it without it being aware of you thinking when you join.Report Abuse
relo
how naive????Report Abuse
Chresmo
PEOPLE MANDELA FOUGHT 4 27 YEARS AND NOW WHAT HE FOUGHT FOR IS GOING DOWN THE DRAIN, DONT U GUYS THINK HE WAS SUPOSE TO CUM OUT AND REMIND THE CURENT GVMNT HOW THE IS SOPOSED TO BE RUNED, WHY IS HE QUITE???? DONT U GUYS THINK IF HE CAN CUM OUT AND SPEAK WITH OUR LEADERS THINGS WUD CHANGE????Report Abuse
sh!tFaceSamsung
for me there is no NEW SOUTH AFRICA: yes of couse on paper look new: but te reality differ:Report Abuse
MGEEZ
@PleaseGetReal1Dude, people in S.A is living in poverty because they managed in 18 years to expand by more than 12 million people, mothers and fathers who does not have jobs are making children in a country where the government is raiding the coffers and instead of creating jobs, more people are losing jobs. So if people are still struggling they must look in the mirror or ask their parents, WHY?
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I am on my feet right now applauding your comments above, well thought and well said!!!!
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Tabza325is
@Makhosini0408, "Madiba displayed leadership qualities when all wanted to revenge Hani's death"Now you just justifying what you said earlier that we should repay Madiba for being in jail all those years which is why I pointed out that others also fought for this freedom not only UTATA, we all love Mandela but we cannot be blinded by our masianic love for one man as being responsible for our liberation fogerting our other fallen heroes.
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Mporoz
Azapo hould apologise to the nation for this statement!Report Abuse
Candyboy
@Cowgirl,You will get to know the real Candyboy.........Spanish outfit & all......btw...the weather has nothing to do with my appetite for a well educated & and open minded woman like you.....your brains are so attractive, i can only imagine what else it can do if stimulated the right way....*smiles*
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SharpSharp
Text of the Groote Schuur Minute4 May 1990
The government and the African National Congress agree on a common commitment towards the resolution of the existing climate of violence and intimidation from whatever quarter as well as a commitment to stability and to a peaceful process of negotiations.
Flowing from this commitment, the following was agreed upon:
The establishment of a working group to make recommendations on a definition of political offences in the South African situation; to discuss, in this regard, time scales; and to advise on norms and mechanisms for dealing with the release of political prisoners and the granting of immunity in respect of political offences to those inside and outside South Africa. All persons who may be affected will be considered. The working group will bear in mind experiences in Namibia and elsewhere. The working group will aim to complete its work before 21st May 1990. It is understood that the South African government, in its discretion, may consider other political parties and movement and other relevant bodies. The proceedings of the working group will be confidential. In the meantime the following offences will receive attention immediately:
The leaving of the country without a valid travel document.
Any offences related merely to organizations which were previously prohibited.
In addition to the arrangements mentioned in paragraph 1, temporary immunity from prosecution of political offences committed before today, will be considered on an urgent basis for members of the National Executive Committee and selected other members of the ANC from outside the country, to enable them to return and help with the establishment and management of political activities, to assist in bringing violence to an end and to take part in peaceful political negotiations.
The government undertakes to review existing security legislation to bring it into line with the new dynamic situation developing in South Africa in order to ensure normal and free political activities.
The government reiterates its commitment to work towards the lifting of the state of emergency. In this context, the ANC will exert itself to fulfill the objectives contained in the preamble.
Efficient channels of communication between the government and the ANC will be established in order to curb violence and intimidation from whatever quarter effectively.
The government and the ANC agree that the objectives contained in this minute should be achieved as early as possible.
CAPE TOWN
4th May 1990
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Blackstone.lebs
Sell-out or not, Mandela couldn't have done it alone. Liberation movements had armed wings (MK, Apla, Azanla), the aim being to take on and defeat the apartheid government. Somewhere along the line collective decisions were made that negotiations were better than war, hence the "compromise constitution". NOT all parties agreed to this arrangement, unfortunately they were the minority so the decision remained in force (like in a normal democracy) and CODESA was concieved, giving birth to what is now Freedom Day.It's wrong for AZAYO to blame Nelson Mandela for a collective decision; calling him names is just pure contempt and goes against the founding principles of AZAPO.
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SharpSharp
MporozAzapo should apologise to the nation for this statement!...hahahahahahahahahaha OMG
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Candyboy
@Tabza325isyou know i do all I can irratate the living sh!t out of you....but today i wana offer you a bells buddy:-)
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TonkiYaPoho
I remeber the open letter written to Zuma by Mbeki. google it, read it where he says they had all agreed to make Mandela a Global face because it was convinient & you'll get the truth from the letter.Everyone lies just to get ahead!
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The-Rothschilds
HANDS OF MANDELA!Mandela fought for the right for every South African to be able to chose a government of their choice at the poll station without fear.
Mandela DID NOT FIGHT for money to be transferred to every black soul in this country. Mandela expected black people to take advantage of the freedom that had been given to them to uplift themselves. He said that above all things, education is your greatest asset to survival and success.
Sadly the organization of Mandela was hijacked by gangsters that have robbed the coffers. Now that all the money is gone and stored in bank accounts in Switzerland, Cuba and Shanghai, the ANC is now been cornered by the masses and the ANC is now using their puppet mouth pieces like NUMSA and the ANCYL to divert the blame on Wh!te Capital.
The ANC took a loan that they would never pay the people back and used wh!te wealth as security.
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Sjekula
"Any form of political freedom which does not touch on proper distribution of wealth will be meaningless. Whites have locked up within a small minority of themselves, the greater proportion of the country's wealth, and if we have a mere change of face of those in governing positions, what is likely to happen is that black people will continue to be poor, and we will get a few blacks filtering through into the so called bourgeoisie and our society will be ran almost as of yesterday." Steve BikoMandela and his crew knew this was gonna happen, and their "Bourgeoisie" children(Tselane Tambo) labeled black people lazy, that's what she said when she landed in the country.
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MGEEZ
@AllThis is politics; and like in anything, hindsight is beautiful because it makes every one look intelligent!!!! I can see that many right now must be thinking very highly of themselves than they ought to, looking at the comments above.
It's a free country and each one is exercising their freedom of speech!!! Lol
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Tabza325is
@Cowgirl, I also made it but going back to my old neighborhood I still see some of my peers who didn't make it not because they were lazy but simply circumstances and fortune is not on everybody's side, just because one has great fortune in life does not mean those that don't are just lazy doing nothing to lift thier circumstances, we can't live ourlives with our noses high in the sky acting as if we are the only hard working people in this world we are all working hard the defference is others have fortune on their side and others are bound to be trapped in the circle of porverty regardless of iether you think they are lazy or not, be compassionate to others and try to be considerate as a human being and have Ubuntu and acknowdge others pain. This is why every December I always make sure I have something for the gabage pick up guys in my neighborhood as I know not all are as fortunate as the few of us in this world whom fortune and destiny is on our side.Report Abuse
Sakaza
In my opinion AZAPO is right, if it was'nt for Mandela the gap between the rich (whitepeople) and a poor (blackpeople) would'nt so pathetically huge. freedom combatent died some jailed never tested freedom in their live time some are watching it on tv poor, all in the name of stupid rainbow nation, no nation will become a rainbow, you only get rainbow when moisture meets light, they will never like us, so why must we?Report Abuse
SharpSharp
Nelson Mandela Foundation spokesman Sello Hatang said Mandela had always maintained "that he was always acting as part of the collective".I will recommend Long Walk To Freedom for those who didnt read it... inlcuding leshaangane la Ngobeni....
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Sjekula
@SharpSharpDoes being Shangaan make him less of a human being, you sure have a small brain, don't engage ezindabeni zabantu abadala.
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S1nude1ty
Nah, I think you guys are wrong. You forget that at the time, the SADF was considered one of the most powerful and elite military units in the world.If negotiations didnt happen, and the end of apartheid was defined by a military struggle, then apartheid would still be happening as we speak.
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SharpSharp
SakazaIn my opinion AZAPO is right, if it was'nt for Mandela the gap between the rich (whitepeople) and a poor (blackpeople) would'nt so pathetically huge. freedom combatent died some jailed never tested freedom in their live time some are watching it on tv poor, all in the name of stupid rainbow nation, no nation will become a rainbow, you only get rainbow when moisture meets light, they will never like us, so why must we?
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Can u explain yourself This rich and poor thing ?????????????????????????????????????
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Makhosini0408
Tabza325is@Makhosini0408, "Madiba displayed leadership qualities when all wanted to revenge Hani's death"
Now you just justifying what you said earlier that we should repay Madiba for being in jail all those years which is why I pointed out that others also fought for this freedom not only UTATA, we all love Mandela but we cannot be blinded by our masianic love for one man as being responsible for our liberation fogerting our other fallen heroe
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With all due respect, I did not say we owe Madiba anything. In my initial post I said I think Madiba should be the one that we need to apologise to for betraying the ideals that he fought for, not like what the this clowns are alluding to.
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S1nude1ty
Sakaza - Did you know, that as of 5 years ago, black capital in South Africa is greater than white capital. Meaning that combined, black people have more money than white people. The black middle class is bigger than the entire white population.Report Abuse
Sjekula
@S1nude1tyNegotiations with so much of a compromise from Africans.
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Chresmo
@The-Rothschilds, dont u tink he was supoz to cum out and talk to our current leaders???Report Abuse
MGEEZ
SakazaIn my opinion AZAPO is right, if it was'nt for Mandela the gap between the rich (whitepeople) and a poor (blackpeople) would'nt so pathetically huge. freedom combatent died some jailed never tested freedom in their live time some are watching it on tv poor, all in the name of stupid rainbow nation, no nation will become a rainbow, you only get rainbow when moisture meets light, they will never like us, so why must we?
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They are subjectively right because their opinion is directly linked to your prejudices that inform your premise hence in your opinion they are right. I want you to understand that no scientific research was performed to prove or disprove their theory. As long as that is the case; they have not proven anything but just inspired a debate about the matter. Another thing i want you to understand is that there is no telling where we would be today in South Africa had the ANC refused to take what was on the table. It can be argued that the ANC approach was a better one because in any negotiations you give and take!!! How does that change the price of eggs? What has Azapo done for our people; except criticizing those who are doing something!!!
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Secretary
I do not buy it,Tata should be brought to book and charged.Report Abuse
The-Rothschilds
Chresmo@The-Rothschilds, dont u tink he was supoz to cum out and talk to our current leaders???
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The man can hardly walk and talk.
He spent almost 3 decades in prison, let the man live his last few years in peace.
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Tabza325is
@Makhosini0408, if you put it that way then agreed, the noble course and Idealogy that him and our other fallen heroes fought for are being dis-horned by the current ANC organisation.Report Abuse
Maezizsto_
Fack this Amukelani trash.You cant blame Tata for ANC failures.It is not Tata's fault that we have greedy individuals in the government who are power hungry and are only interested in enriching themselves and their families.Report Abuse
MGEEZ
Makhosini0408Tabza325is
@Makhosini0408, "Madiba displayed leadership qualities when all wanted to revenge Hani's death"
Now you just justifying what you said earlier that we should repay Madiba for being in jail all those years which is why I pointed out that others also fought for this freedom not only UTATA, we all love Mandela but we cannot be blinded by our masianic love for one man as being responsible for our liberation fogerting our other fallen heroe
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With all due respect, I did not say we owe Madiba anything. In my initial post I said I think Madiba should be the one that we need to apologise to for betraying the ideals that he fought for, not like what the this clowns are alluding to.
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So; how is the statement above different from having said we owe the men?
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S1nude1ty
Sjekula - What compromise? The return of stolen land to its original owners? Thats happening and the process is almost complete.Control of the economy? You do realise how you control the economy right? By buying majority shares, look at these figures:
Annual claimed buying power Last quarter 2005 estimate First quarter 2007 estimate
Whites R230bn R235bn
Blacks: R300bn R335bn
http://www.southafrica.info/about/people/blackdiamonds-230507.htm
Therefore, its easy enough for combined black investors to outbuy the shares of white investors.
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S1nude1ty
Secretary - "I do not buy it,Tata should be brought to book and charged."You will protect scumbags like Block, Zuma and Ace... but you want Mandela to be charged?
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oldlady5
Mandela did not have a choice. If he did not agree to terms that suited the NATS, 1994 wouldn't have happened. Instead, there would have been full blown war, and the people with the most weapon power would have won. Sure, the Russians would have provided many weapons to the revolution, but then they'd become masters, and they're mostly white too.What intrigues me most is all the talk about Hani. I've always wondered what Derby-Lewis and the dude with the difficult name got out of kil.ling him. Now it seems more and more like a plot somewhere from deep within the ruling ranks to prevent him from preventing them having luxury lifestyles in the future.
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SharpSharp
Sjekula@SharpSharp
Does being Shangaan make him less of a human being, you sure have a small brain, don't engage ezindabeni zabantu abadala.
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I am Mope di and proud of being Mop edi why you Shaanganes dont want ppl to call u by your names if you are shaangane ur shaangane it will never change. No one ever talked about less human being...Whats wrong with you shaanganes is shaaangane an insult...Tells us shaanganes tell us
OK, I will recommend Long Walk To Freedom for those who didnt read it... inlcuding m opedi woo wa Ngobeni....
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Secretary
@CowgirlYou are just a tailless calf without confidence.
If you are adamand by saying Curruption is the root. What Tata did was purely corruption,because he went through secret meeting and surrendered our land and cows to white minority,those meeting apparently involved bribism and mafia
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nsukuangel
Unfortunately the brother is spot on, on this matter, we were sold out in return for fame and union building...Report Abuse
The-Rothschilds
gangsters took over Mandela's ANC............................all the money is now gone.........................and now the people are asking where is the money???? We have been done in!Report Abuse
oldlady5
Secretary, he surrendered your COWS to white minority????? Hahahahaha. That's priceless.Report Abuse
mozanana
ma azapo anyela dey must leave our hero in peace long live TATA MANDELA long liveReport Abuse
S1nude1ty
Just so we get the records straight, it wasnt Mandela that organised the terms to end apartheid. It was Thabo Mbeki and Willie Esterhuysen (to mention the chief negotiators).Report Abuse
Sjekula
"Before taking the stand, the president said he had grave reservations about the unprecedented order for him to appear in court because it might open floodgates by which all presidential decisions might be challenged and government undermined." - Nelson Mandela. He didn't make those decisions as an individual, people must understand that there is the NEC, and our major problem was also exiles having input on negotiations, having not taken time to study/observe the black man's position then, hence the Sibusiso Bhengu's came and implemented education systems that were being piloted wherever they copied them.Report Abuse
MGEEZ
SecretaryI do not buy it,Tata should be brought to book and charged.
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Charged for what????
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Secretary
@S1nude1tyAs it was highlighted in the article that Tata is about to surrender to death,we should be quick to charge him and the rest of his mafias later. Do not worry about Zuma,Mangaung conference will charge him.
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S1nude1ty
Secretary - You are a cowless tail without logic. If you want war, then stop being a little war mongerer behind the safety of your PC.Report Abuse
S1nude1ty
Secretary - The article clearly got its facts wrong. As do you. So, whats the point in debating with someone that doesnt have a clue.Report Abuse
truthhurt
S1nude1tySecretary - "I do not buy it,Tata should be brought to book and charged."
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How about we start by charging your mother for givung birth to you?
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MzimbaShaker
After seeing the heading, I went straight to the comments bcoz I know how much luv we have for uTata so I wanted real to see what ppl will say. After reading most of the comments, I decided to google for the CODESA agreement. Though it does not give much details on what was discussed and agreements, I am convinced that there are some decision that were taken back then for the betterment of the country.What I noticed was that, the negtiations were about to reach the stand still untill the death of Chris Hani. The NP then allowed Mandela and ANC to dectate terms bcoz of how Mandela handled the Chris Hani issue.
The problem we are facing is that the current ANC leadership never had a plan of how to transform from the brick Mandela and company has laid to sustain the economy of the country.
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Makhosini0408
Tabza325is@Makhosini0408, if you put it that way then agreed, the noble course and Idealogy that him and our other fallen heroes fought for are being dis-horned by the current ANC organisati.
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I am glad that the miss understanding was cleared.
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Secretary
@MGEEZSecret meeting could consist of bribes and mafias. That old man turned himself to Jesus Christ illegally. He harnessed the mass and benefitted out of their potential. We are cleaning south Africa by starting with Tata.
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MsHollyHerb
Mcm abantu dont appreciate shame at all, how can u hlukumeza uMandela out of all people, dis Amukelani is the 1 who wont rest in peace and there goes his ticket to heaven, NxReport Abuse
oldlady5
Charge, charge, charge, charge, charge. sounds like a raging bull in a china shop destroying everything beautiful around him.Report Abuse
LESSON.1
@SecretaryI do not buy it,Tata should be brought to book and charged.
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You need to take your Medication Seriously - (First of all by following the instructions )
You been here on this blog talking about cows- What cows cos even your grand- grand fathers never had 1 single cow? stop drinking overdose of Chibuku.........
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Makhosini0408
Makhosini0408Its actually the other way round. We sold Madiba out. When he came out of prison, he said: "I stand before you as a humble servant." He reiterated that he was prepared to pay the highest price in fighting for both bl@ck and wh!te domination.
Now we have repaid him for the time that he spent in Robben Island by looting the State coffers, corruption, racism disguised as liberalism, tribalism (100% Z.ulu boy/ X.hosa boy, crime, dysfunctional education system and the list is endless.
Let us remember that he did his best and he left the ANC and government in sound health and now patient ANC and government is in intensive care unit and arrogantly do not want to accept that it is dying a slow painfull death.
Azapo must leave Madiba alone and concentrate on building the party that is in political wilderness and stop being irrelevant and insensitive.
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MGEEZ
I hope that answers your question?
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Sjekula
@SharpSharpI didn't mean to get into a debate with you, and I know that batho ba dipolasing cannot see beyond tribes and yet they want to engage in bigger topics, I do not entertain tribalists.
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Tabza325is
@S1nude1ty, "Annual claimed buying power Last quarter 2005 estimate First quarter 2007 estimateWhites R230bn R235bn
Blacks: R300bn R335bn"
Interesting figures, I wonder how much of that spending power is debt accumilated by the blacks compared to white debt. I think they is a defference between having money and spending power as access to credit as most South Africans do. How much of that spending power does the blacks own as money they have compared to the debt they take to buy.
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ONEE
S1nude1tySecretary - "I do not buy it,Tata should be brought to book and charged."
You will protect scumbags like Block, Zuma and Ace... but you want Mandela to be charged?
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this is a secretary and all she ever does is to follow instructions and write what is said, so dont mind such people bcz her brain is very limited she cant think at all.. ooh no ofence to the briliant secretaries.
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S1nude1ty
Tabza325is - Interesting question... Lemme see if I can find some figures...Report Abuse
LESSON.1
@truthhurt@S1nude1ty
Secretary - "I do not buy it,Tata should be brought to book and charged."
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How about we start by charging your mother for givung birth to you?
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Wrong how about charging his father by wasting his energy and Sp3rms ?
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MinsterWithoutPortfolio
I couldn’t agree more:I APOLOGISE FOR those who are blinded by ignorance on this matter .
Corruption started under the Mandela administration .e.g Tokyo and Cyril multi millions mostly from BEE deals.
In his home town he lives like the white man on his farm, yet his neighbours live in extreme poverty....
I didn’t see much change as he moved from Soweto to Sand ton .
If Mandela didn’t sell us out, how come he has not comment on the high level of corruption from ANC official over the years as he is well respected....
Why : because HE IS JUST A CIP OFF THE OLD BLOCK...........
Keep in mind it’s not only Mandela who suffered during the fight for freedom...........
If someone remains neutral about known BAD situation, it becomes obvious which side is that person taking.
The truth shall set you free….
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KarlZimbiri.71
AZAPO motherbody is mum about the useless article advanced by thier doomed youth wing. I don't have words or share how disgusted I am. Its a disgraced for a liberation movement to let its legacy go down the drain like this. Please close shopReport Abuse
Secretary
@LESSON.1Cows refer to our richness idiot. You are mentally paralyzed and hypnotized hence you cant think outside the box
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Cowgirl
@Tabza325isWell i see that we have different views on life and therefore we will not agree on this one....firstly i do not believe in luck or fortune as you put it....i believe in putting in the work to succeed, having changed my circumstances after being orphaned at the age of 13 and being raised by me sister who was 16 at the time, having gone to bed on an empty stomach on some nights, being a child of an alcoholic father who terrorised us as children... see i had a choice...either to let my circumstances define me or define myself...i chose the latter cause i did not want to be a victim of my circumstances.....my point here is that we were all born in those circumstances but most of us chose to define our own paths when freedom was gained....this is not being cruel but stating a simple fact..... we choose our paths in this life and work hard at determining a path for our journey.
By the way i also do my part in helping others, the woman who helps to keep my house together, who looks after my child as i am trying to make sure that he has a better future can attest to that, so will her son who i contribute towards his education since he completed his matric in 2010 and therefore i ask that you do not accuse me of not caring when i do not accept laziness. I probably practise more UBUNTU than you ever will but i chose do it in a way that will assist people rather than enable them to not get up and do it for themselves(lazy).
I have identified two more candidates that i will sponsor from 2013 in furthering their studies but i have made it perfectly clear to them that...what they put in to ensure that they succeed with their matric year will determine me assisting them as i WILL NOT invest my resources on people who are not willing to put in the work. The is NO FREE lunch in this life and i want these young people that i am assisting to understand that and i want them to know that they are not their circumstances.
You cannot blame anyone for your failure in this life....NO ONE!
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S1nude1ty
Tabza325is - http://personalfinance.iafrica.com/debtmanagement/2001460.htmAccording to the article, Men account for 58.12 percent of debt. White males make up 44.13 percent of debt and black males 28.93 percent.
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ONEE
LESSON.1@Secretary
I do not buy it,Tata should be brought to book and charged.
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You need to take your Medication Seriously - (First of all by following the instructions )
You been here on this blog talking about cows- What cows cos even your grand- grand fathers never had 1 single cow? stop drinking overdose of Chibuku.........
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You earlier told me not to bother waste my doom here...kwaaaa and this is one of those attention seekers we normally come acroos the blog.
brainless, clueless and honeslty i believe she took her medication but the timing was wrong it should be taken at night so she can rest for its al ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz dizzy
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Sjekula
S1nude1tyAnnual claimed buying power Last quarter 2005 estimate First quarter 2007 estimate
Whites R230bn R235bn
Blacks: R300bn R335bn
To howmany Africans does that belong to, it could be 3 politicians, "Bourgeoisie", you should have read my the quote on my first comment, by Steve Biko.
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oldlady5
Tabza325i, you see, the same thing applies to the white.s. For all these years you've been so blinded by their riches, that you never took into account that only the top elite is rich. The rest of us us owned by the banks........ house, care, furniture and souls. Just like the blacks. Check the next white tannie standing before you in a supermarket queue's wallet. Credit card after credit card.Report Abuse
SharpSharp
I must say i am really disappointed about the knowledge our ppl has in terms of the running of the country...Many dont really have a clue on what happened pre1994 and post 1994. i can understand that many were young but that does nt justify this lot of rubbbish about an individual. It was alsways collective in the ANC, and even when it was very diffuclt for uTata to consult with the NEC of the ANC then he make sure that he speaks to one and two ppl who was in the NEC of the burned ANC. I repeat even in difficult situation he has never ever take any decision that concern the majority of the ppl with consulting with one or two of the ANCNECReport Abuse
Milaneshu
With nationalisation of mines we will better the conditions of workers more jobs will be created...we open companies to cut and polish the minerals here in sa...the country is very rich with minerals... that's why we still have more investors who are willing to invest here...the time has come for us to implement the freedom charter unapologetically...We continue to demand that the land and wealth be shared and that all mineral wealth beneath the soil be transferred to the people as a whole...we all agree with the freedom charter when it's say's sa belongs to everyone who live in it...however we always differ when it say's people shall share the wealth of this country...why?
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The-Rothschilds
MzimbaShakerThe problem we are facing is that the current ANC leadership never had a plan of how to transform from the brick Mandela and company has laid to sustain the economy of the country.
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CORRECTION....
The ANC had a brilliant plan called GEAR.
But GEAR cannot work when those running the show are stealing the resources required to finance GEAR.
The ANC took a loan that they knew they would NEVER EVER pay back.
Over the past 18 years, the top 300 in the ANC has stolen 100s of billions of rands..........................the money is now gone.................our economy is not growing anywhere near as fast as it should be to uplift the black majority. The ANC has created a welfare uneducated state to keep itself and the top 300 with all the wealth and power it wants. Ofcourse the money comes from wh!te monopoly capital and other investments which is why the top 300 will defend monopoly capital as long as monopoly capital stays out of politics.
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The-Rothschilds
MilaneshuWith nationalisation of mines we will better the conditions of workers more jobs will be created...we open companies to cut and polish the minerals here in sa...the country is very rich with minerals... that's why we still have more investors who are willing to invest here...the time has come for us to implement the freedom charter unapologetically...
We continue to demand that the land and wealth be shared and that all mineral wealth beneath the soil be transferred to the people as a whole...we all agree with the freedom charter when it's say's sa belongs to everyone who live in it...however we always differ when it say's people shall share the wealth of this country...why?
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Because someone worked hard to create that wealth................if we are going to share we have to all put in equal effort..................but we all know this has never been the case.
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Sakaza
@Shapshapwe have estates that valued at millions whith electric fence, 2 kilometers away people are living in shacks with sh****t all over the place, just guess who stays in estates and who stays in shacks and why?
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Cowgirl
Secretary@Cowgirl
You are just a tailless calf without confidence.
If you are adamand by saying Curruption is the root. What Tata did was purely corruption,because he went through secret meeting and surrendered our land and cows to white minority,those meeting apparently involved bribism and mafia
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Okay i can't deal anymore...what is up with the cows dude?...into farming i presume....kikikiki
I am out, can't take Secretary anymore.
Goodday to all!
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S1nude1ty
Sjekula - "To how many Africans does that belong to, it could be 3 politicians"Wether it belongs to 3 politicians or 5 million middle-class members, the facts are starting to state things quite obviously. The power to enrich people on the ground is not on the onus of the white man anymore. Its now in the hands of the black man.
What all the calls of 'expropriation' are showing, is that instead of distributing wealth, the black capital owners would rather take more, from diminishing white capital, then actually trickling down from the greater caches of black capital.
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LESSON.1
@Goat_Sperm_Returns_Click- dn't involve me in your madness - pleaaaaaaaaaaaase
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S1nude1ty
Milaneshu - "With nationalisation of mines we will better the conditions of workers more jobs will be created."Where did you get this information from? Are you just pulling statements out of your socks now?
Just a correction, the wealth of the country is available to everyone. But unfortunately, those profiteering the most (Patrice Motsepe) doesnt want to share with you. Nor does Zuma, Tokyo or Rhamaphosa.
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SharpSharp
Sjekula@SharpSharp
I didn't mean to get into a debate with you, and I know that batho ba dipolasing cannot see beyond tribes and yet they want to engage in bigger topics, I do not entertain tribalists.
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Ppl need to learn to confront things the way they are Shaaangane is Shaangane unless u have a problem with that....Mopedi ke Mopedi, Afrikaa ner is Afrikaa ner.
I must say that we dont need ppl like u in this country they keep on dragging us back
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The-Rothschilds
Sakaza@Shapshap
we have estates that valued at millions whith electric fence, 2 kilometers away people are living in shacks with sh****t all over the place, just guess who stays in estates and who stays in shacks and why?
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People work very hard to live in an estate, and its probably decades and generations of wealth that would allow someone to live in an estate.
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S1nude1ty
Sakaza - "we have estates that valued at millions whith electric fence, 2 kilometers away people are living in shacks with sh****t all over the place, just guess who stays in estates and who stays in shacks and why?"ANC politicians living in the mansions? Julius living in his R16 million mansion? Like I say, you need to do some serious introspection dude. Its now black responsbility to enrich the people living in poverty, not white responsibility.
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Secretary
@Goat_Sperm_Returns_We want facts on this platform not insults. You may leave us!!!
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Tabza325is
@oldlady5Tabza325i, you see, the same thing applies to the white.s. For all these years you've been so blinded by their riches, that you never took into account that only the top elite is rich. The rest of us us owned by the banks........ house, care, furniture and souls. Just like the blacks. Check the next white tannie standing before you in a supermarket queue's wallet. Credit card after credit card.
That's why I asked that question as I understand spending power can mean more debt than actual wealth and people mistake this as having money or so called Black Diamonds, very few have money and the rest are living with debt and untill they pay it of the bank owns thier houses and assets. I stay in Kempton Park and have no false illution that all whites have money, believe me I see poor white people all the time and some even homeless in Kempton Park CBD, also within Kempton Park residential you get this residential flats or granny flats were some of the struggling young white couples stay and most struggle to pay thier monthly rent. I know spending power does not translate to wealth but more debt.
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S1nude1ty
Tabza325is - Its true, but like the link I posted stated, white folks have more debt than black folks.Report Abuse
Tasto
Ppl there were many talks b4 CODESA some ppl want or think that when they saw CODESA on tv that was it, there was Conference For Democratic Future @ Wits in 1989 prior to NMandela release and fortunatley or unfortunatley it was graced by those former Robben Ilsand prisoners but they were not part of any delegation.What I saw there was the start of the way the country was going to follow.Azapo on 1 side was contesting that the Bantustan(Holomisa&crew) to be on one side with the NATS and liberation movements to form-a-front and seat on one side of the table.This led to some confrontation and KZN-Azapo left the hall because ANC & PAC did not se Holomisa then as a bantustan or as special one !!By the time we went to CODESA it was one for himself @ some point Azapo was uncertain to take part in legitimising government of national-unuty whateva that means !!PS - There were talks already long before this in London, Lusaka, etc by the anc and apartheid NATS !!
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lickme
who is azapo? this guys think their shisa nyama meetings with their frieds count in polotics..Report Abuse
Sjekula
@SharpSharp"I must say that we dont need ppl like u in this country they keep on dragging us back"
I believe sane people would see it the other way round, st.up.id tribalist, I wouldn't attack BaPedi because of you mor.on, you're not adding value, don't let your emotions cloud your brain, next time you disagree with a person, do so in a decent way, don't pull tribes semaumau.
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Insider
"You can fool some people sometime but you can't fool all the people all the times"- Bob MarleyReport Abuse
truthhurt
@Goat_Sperm_ReturnsWhat can you expect from som1 like you, i know your type. day dreaming about other men, all day long, sies!
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Sakaza
@S1nidet1y
dont tell about 200 black people against 50 thousand whites wena, we should have at least about 100 squre kilometre balck suburb not of shacks something you will only find in Africa.
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S1nude1ty
truthhurt - Err, thats funny. Because you made a similiar comments towards me.Report Abuse
oldlady5
Truthhurt, and old women like me too. Shame, must be that he cannot handle a real woman his age group.Report Abuse
Blackstone.lebs
@Oldlady5RE: your comment on the Chris Hani murder
++++++++++++++++
you may want to check MAIL & GUARDIAN article dated January 31, 1997 titled "New evidence in Hani death plot"
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SharpSharp
Sakaza@Shapshap
we have estates that valued at millions whith electric fence, 2 kilometers away people are living in shacks with sh****t all over the place, just guess who stays in estates and who stays in shacks and why?
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If this is how u explain rich and poor then i rest my case cos Mandela has nothing to do with ppl who choose to start staying in shackss and those in estate. By the way Phola Park in Thokoza, Winnie Mandela Tembisa etc were there even before Mandela released frm prison...
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oldlady5
Sakaza, I understand what you say, but just think about this. In 1642, ten years before the white man arrived here, what were black people living in, and bear in mind white people were already living in houses then.Report Abuse
oldlady5
Blackstone.lebs, thanks, will do.Report Abuse
S1nude1ty
Blackstone.lebs - Thanks for the info:http://www.scribd.com/doc/29415893/97-01-31-M-G-New-Evidence-in-Hani-Death-Plot-ANC-Mil-Int-Knew-Did-Nothing
"The documents raise the question why MI, prewarned, had done nothing to prevent Hani's death. More surprisingly, they claim an unidentified group of African National Congress operatives had ahand in Hani's death."
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SharpSharp
SjekulaDo hind behind tribes and tibalist thing...
Lets clear this one once and for all do you have a problem with this statement and what is it that u r not comfortable with"OK, I will recommend Long Walk To Freedom to those who didnt read it... inlcuding m opedi woo wa Ngobeni...."
I can see that you are starting to lose ur mind, let me help u understand so that u do nt end up exposing urself...I can see that u have started with insults...READ THE ABOVE STATEMENT VERY EVRY VERY SLOW AND tell me whats wrong with that....
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The-Rothschilds
S1nude1tyHave you reached Inferno yet? :)
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Sakaza
@Oldladyi just don't understand what got to do with the current SA situation, i think we should stop thinking about them and start focus on us make butter days for our black children and I must emphasise we must invest in the future, its not about us but for our generatins to legacy.
@Sharphsrp
you need to grow or catch a wake up
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S1nude1ty
The-Rothschilds - Of course :PInferno - Act I, havent played much since then though. Back to my BF3 and Eve online schedule.
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S1nude1ty
The-Rothschilds - The gold spammers have been p***ing me off bigtime.Report Abuse
S1nude1ty
The-Rothschilds - The day I rolled wizard, Diablo said GG.Report Abuse
CYBORICO
let the oldman come out clean, he did his part, if there is something to be said let him come out and say it, it will teach many of future leaders the concept of accountability, success comes with compromise we know that, lets just here from him what compromises were made, he'll still be a hero in our heartsReport Abuse
Sjekula
@SharpSharpYou meant to degrade that Ngobeni guy, thought being Shangaan is less human, started labeling me Shangaan, I didn't mind that because you were just being plain du.mb, and by the way, you win baba/mama, whatever you are, you should be happy now, phuma kimi.
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SharpSharp
SjekulaI just posted that comment purposefully cos i did know that someone will react to it without lookinng at it...This is the kind of ppl we have in SA when ever you say blaak or whhite they start raising voice saying you r raciiissst. And if black on black they will say you are tribalist blh blah blh....
We are still having a long way to go in terms of us understading each without naming one another tribalist raccccist etc. Some never had the opportunity to express themself by they tribal names without feeling demeaning...it is a lesson which we all need to acquire for us to move forward...It is very difficult to accept whiiite ppl while we dont fell comfortable in calling each other Zullllus.Xhossssaaa,Pedissss Shaaaaanganes etc.We still have long way to goooooooooo
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SharpSharp
Sakaza@Sharphsrp
you need to grow or catch a wake up
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Whats wrong with u now???????????
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oldlady5
Sakazy, what it's got to do with the current situation is that once the white man arrived here, the first thing he did was start building houses. The black man didn't worry about houses for many moons after that, as the earth was his house, so it stand to reason that Africa in general will have a huge backlog in houses compared to other continents. But yes, I agree with you, we must start looking at how to save this country for our children, and theirs, and to continue comparing the one colour's riches to the other colour riches will do nothing to change the situation. The building of RDP's also cannot keep up with the demand for RDP's, so we, as a nation, will have to find another solution.Report Abuse
STOPA
ngobeni le a phapha mang, leaders of apartheid,i mean the boers are the ones who must apologise to the blacks not the liberators,Report Abuse
Makhosini0408
S1nude1tyBlackstone.lebs - Thanks for the info:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/29415893/97-01-31-M-G-New-Evidence-in-Hani-Death-Plot-ANC-Mil-Int-Knew-Did-Nothing
"The documents raise the question why MI, prewarned, had done nothing to prevent Hani's death. More surprisingly, they claim an unidentified group of African National Congress operatives had ahand in Hani's death."
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The last edition of the defunct New Nation, spelled it out that a meeting held on the 8th of April 1993, where Joe Modise and Thabo Mbeki were present sealed Hani's fate. It also alleged that Hani and Waluz met face to face at the Carlton Centre. Also if one digs deep, who gave the order for Hani's bodyguard to be off, when the right wingers were baying for his blood, because a research revealed that he was the second popular leader after Madiba?
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S1nude1ty
STOPA - Eish, another tribalist. Wasnt it Vlok that apologised for apartheid? He washed feet in this sentiment.Report Abuse
SharpSharp
This days ppl are afraid to call each other Zulllu boy, Xhosaaaaa son, mfana wa mo pedi, Mfana wa Moshaaaangane etc.It is not an insult guys wake up this is SA,Report Abuse
S1nude1ty
Makhosini0408 - Interesting info, thanks.Report Abuse
S1nude1ty
SharpSharp - Its true, I dont mind being called a "bo3r" at all.Report Abuse
Sakaza
@Sharpahrpdo you really some people prefer living in shacks? or i'm not getting you correctly
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RobinH
Cowgirl: Forget about getting any form of reasoning from our poor semi-literate Secretary.Report Abuse
SharpSharp
Sjekula@SharpSharp
You meant to degrade that Ngobeni guy, thought being Shangaan is less human, started labeling me Shangaan, I didn't mind that because you were just being plain du.mb, and by the way, you win baba/mama, whatever you are, you should be happy now, phuma kimi.
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Ok thanks i did nt mean to win if that is what u call it....sharp sharp
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LESSON.1
SharpSharpThis days ppl are afraid to call each other Zulllu boy, Xhosaaaaa son, mfana wa mo pedi, Mfana wa Moshaaaangane etc.It is not an insult guys wake up this is SA,
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Like Mfana wa Lekwapa ?
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S1nude1ty
The-Rothschilds - Yeah, D3 was quite a letdown. Short game. Little replayability.Report Abuse
SharpSharp
Sakaza@Sharpahrp
do you really some people prefer living in shacks? or i'm not getting you correctly
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Yes many ppl prefer living in shacks...They were given RDP houses but they sell them and go back to Shacks. It is thier chose and Madela has nothing to do with that...
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S1nude1ty
SharpSharp - Its true, I dont mind being called a "bo3r" at all....Ok mfana wa le Bo3r... Just call me mfana wa Mopedi i dont mind tooo
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Sakaza
@TheRothchildsThose people work hader than a man working at the mine? I dont think so.
this is what is holding us down, you start by helping inside the house and you go solo
DOWN WITH CAPITALITS MENTALITY
ITS NOT ALL ABOUT YOU BUT FOR THE COUNTRY
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CYBORICO
@Tabza325isthat oldlady303 wont even understand what u wrote, she got ET and AWB smoke coming out of every opening in her body, evething touched by a black man is not worth it to her.
there would be no global warming if black people had their way, everything was recyclable
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SharpSharp
LESSON.1SharpSharp
This days ppl are afraid to call each other Zulllu boy, Xhosaaaaa son, mfana wa mo pedi, Mfana wa Moshaaaangane etc.It is not an insult guys wake up this is SA,
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Like Mfana wa Lekwapa ?
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Wena otlo betha ke batho....lol
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S1nude1ty
SharpSharp - Ja meneer. Much respect.Report Abuse
Sjekula
@SharpSharpCalling each other by tr.ibes depends on the context, you said "including leshang.aane la-Ngobeni", if I may ask, isn't there a difference between Le.pedi and Mo.pedi?
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Sjekula
@SharpSharpCalling each other by tr.ibes depends on the con.text, you said "including leshang.aane la-Ngobeni", if I may ask, isn't there a difference between Le.pe.di and Mo.p.edi?
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rasefatee
Tabza325is@oldlady5
Sakazy, what it's got to do with the current situation is that once the white man arrived here, the first thing he did was start building houses. The black man didn't worry about houses for many moons after that, as the earth was his house, so it stand to reason that Africa in general will have a huge backlog in houses compared to other continents
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this is why people like oldlady5 should just leave this country with their arrogant stereotype mentality of undermining black people of this country and life would have been better is if they were not here let them fkof
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The-Rothschilds
Sakaza@TheRothchilds
Those people work hader than a man working at the mine? I dont think so.
this is what is holding us down, you start by helping inside the house and you go solo
DOWN WITH CAPITALITS MENTALITY
ITS NOT ALL ABOUT YOU BUT FOR THE COUNTRY
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It is not a capitalists fault that some people in our society aspire to work in a mine shaft...................and who are you to say that a person hitting a rock all day has harder work than a CEO who has sleepless nights trying to run a global company in uncertain times?
There is no skill in hitting a rock, im sure even a Ch.impanzee can be taught this skill. Why should people who aspire for such a low skilled unproductive job be entitled to the assets of someone else who took the time to really aspire to be something great?
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changeoverdue
Today I have to make a contribution, straight to it, Tata started secret talks with the previous government in 1981 if i am not mistaken till late eighties then came the codesa meetings in Eastrand a mere formality in my opinion. The then democtratic government took office in 1994 and there came the window of opportunity 2thirds majority we could've changed the constitution but we didn't, second elections i think we still had the 2thirds majority still we didn't. Secondly the biggest mistake ever made by P.W.Botha was to underestimate the black youth of south africa and he lived to regret it, point being when the ANC took power they made a similler mistake by ignoring the state of education which is almost disfunctional to say the least and that act alone undermined the black youth of south africa and the future of the country as a whole. The prime minister of Japan once said Africans will always be slaves because they are sprinters and can't run marathons. we think and live for today and we never invest in our communities and in the future of our children hence our leaders are now failing to invest in education which is only way to ensure that we breed intellegent leaders maybe not now but in years to come and those years would have been almost now had we begun in 1994. But guess what we are still throwing insults at one another even we now have plartforms like these to engage each other all you hear slurs and curses instead progressive robust debates. Mandela is no saint but I AINT JUDGIN THE MAN TILL I WALK ON HIS SHOES. ANCLY is calling for free education instead of quality high standard education for our children is what will sustain this country going forward. Some have Land first and all will follow forgeting that we are fighting a sychological warfare therefore it should be QUALITY EDUCATION FIRST AND ALL ELSE WILL TAKE OF CARE OF ITSELF. In as much as there is some truth in AZAPO's statement bear in mind that article by Winnie Mandela which was quickly swept under the carpet by the NEC, so the isn't new at all and as udults we have to make hard decisions and@times even we are not proud of the things we have done and Mandela is no exception. AZAPO is not taking us anywhere with this. Let the government reed itself of corruption, invest in sport, education and importantly our culture. I mean these guys receive qualified audits year in and year out and it's normal. I quess we should blame Mandela for that too. Delegates at conferences continue to vote for mediocre leaders and that must be Mandela's fault too I could go on and on but here it is HANDS OFF MANDELA ESPECIALY WHEN HE CAN NO LONGER DEFEND HIMSELF.Report Abuse
ONEE
Very true there's one thing people must know about human beings in their culture classes.Black people are very few who has access into credit
and most white people are swiming to debts with most things you see enjoying and you think we are the worst
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