Limpopo premier Cassel Mathale and chairman of the parliamentary finance committee, Thaba Mufamadi, are earning R40 million over eight years for renting one of their buildings to the Gauteng government.
SA, alive with possibility.
Can't say I'm surprised but I am getting very tired of this now. There is only so much screwing over we can take Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
rasefatee
Sowetan this is old news maaan eish are u lazy? Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
Papage
What do you use such lots of money for? can't you share with others? Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
rasefatee
Papage
What do you use such lots of money for? can't you share with others?
===================================================
lets kidnap one of his kids to get a share of his bllood stained money Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
1tsotsi
Come on sowetan this story was reperted in the city press two sundays ago, dont you have other news? I see you editorial room is drying up coz of your pathetic reporting and obssesion with certain individuals.
===============
Papage
What do you use such lots of money for? can't you share with others?
===================
Thats question should be directed to Patrice motsepe and cyril ramaphosa, you dont you ask them to share. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
RobinH
SO what's the surprise? This guy's integrity has been a joke since day one. The sad thing is that this sort of thing in our politicians has become so sommonplace that we the public have almost become desensitised. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
1tsotsi
RobinH
SO what's the surprise? This guy's integrity has been a joke since day one. The sad thing is that this sort of thing in our politicians has become so sommonplace that we the public have almost become desensitised.
============
Did you bother to get the full facts about the overall story boet? Its only fair to criticise based on facts, good morming. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
snazz
OLD NEWS SOWETAN ARE U RUNING OUT OF STORIES Report Abuse
Guys just guess who's companies are embroided in the E-Toll of Gauteng? about 35 companies? Eish politicians mara. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
hulas
Until the day corruption is criminalized not glorified this problem will persist.anc has done fcukol to stop this looting but one day is one day gravy train passengers will perish into the sea. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
rasefatee
sleeping on a pilo full of bank notes Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
RobinH
tsotsi. I know as much about it as anyone exposed to SA press, and thus comment on what I observe, as do you. Do publish the "real facts" and enlighten us, and then you'll warrant a decnt reply. Till then I shall proceed as usual. Have a good day. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
The-Rothschilds
This is the same guy calling for the nationalisation of mines.........should we be trusting him? Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
RobinH
Rothschilds: Trust Mathale? Not a chance. I'd sooner trust a rab id hyena. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
1tsotsi
RobinH
tsotsi. I know as much about it as anyone exposed to SA press, and thus comment on what I observe, as do you. Do publish the "real facts" and enlighten us, and then you'll warrant a decnt reply. Till then I shall proceed as usual. Have a good day.
==================
Some of the facts that sowetan should have published, was that Mathale and co. have been doing business since 2007, while Mathale was still a provincial secretary of the ANC, at that time he was not working for government and was fr.ee to do business with anyone just like the constitution of our country entails, surely yo will agree with me, those contracts were long term contracts, then enter Mathale the premier of limpopo, as stated by the cabinet that each and every public officer bearer should declare their intrests within parliament, Mathale did that and he even resigned as a director of the company. So i dont see nothing wrong with that, but id have a problem with him if soem of the buildings he leases are in limpopo, that for me would be a serious conflict of intrest Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
Papage
Remember Mathale & Malema are partners, so the Gauteng government hire a building from Mathale? how so? who is fooling who here ANC? Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
RobinH
Tsotsi: Thanks for that. I am not sure about the ethics of holding shares in a company your province dos business with, even if you resign as director. He never relinquished his shares as far as I know, so would still benefit from any transactions handed the way of the company. But I thank you for the detail, and I'll think about the matter. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
MommaC
1tsotsi
.... but would he have got the deal (without proper tendering nogal) if he hadn't been politically connected? Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
RobinH
MommaC: That's my point. Thanks for laying it out. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
Papage
@1Tsotsi we know where Mathale comes from, he has done that amd this, we know.he has connections all over, we know. he is a busineman before a polititian, we know, and he is corrupt, we know, dont try and justify the wrong here, what is happening in Government now is kak broer, friends get tenders and yet your so called President promised that things will change, what has changed? nothing, Things are going from bad to worse instead. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
1tsotsi
RobinH
Tsotsi: Thanks for that. I am not sure about the ethics of holding shares in a company your province dos business with, even if you resign as director. He never relinquished his shares as far as I know, so would still benefit from any transactions handed the way of the company. But I thank you for the detail, and I'll think about the matter.
==================
Very true, he never relinquished his shares, i see no reason for him to, just like any politician turned business man, he did declare his intrest. Theres he skipped a clause that said if you declare your business while holding a higher position you should relinquish your powers, until such clause is embedded i see nothing wrong or also unless according to some who dislike him his wrong abut while some in the very similar position with similar political power are allowed to do.
=======
MommaC
1tsotsi
.... but would he have got the deal (without proper tendering nogal) if he hadn't been politically connected?
=============
I'd h.ate to assume that he got the deal coz of his political connections, but since you "know" that he got that coz of his "connections" i wont argue that, maybe you the one who should enlighten us since you know it all. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
1tsotsi
Papage
@1Tsotsi we know where Mathale comes from, he has done that amd this, we know.he has connections all over, we know. he is a busineman before a polititian, we know, and he is corrupt, we know, dont try and justify the wrong here, what is happening in Government now is kak broer, friends get tenders and yet your so called President promised that things will change, what has changed? nothing, Things are going from bad to worse instead.
=============
Glad that you know that his a business man, and is allowed to do business with government. Nothing wrong with that, also remember he made his deals before he became a premier, it was in 2007. Can you please tell of of one business man whos not connected politicaly? Come on dont be a hypocrite, only voicing your opinion against those you dislike but keep quite with those you like, blame it on the constitution of SA. Dont be biter Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
MommaC
1tsotsi
Where did I say that I 'know'? I was asking a question.
You have to admit that there seems to be a lot of BEE which appears to be reserved for a very small (fast tracked to riches) politically affiliated people. Report Abuse
Eish Mathale has great supporters, Tsotsi No.1, enjoy it while it last, the winds of change will befall you as well. good luck with your millions, enjoy Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
Papage
So all his deals were signed before 2007 and the contract still runs according to Tsotsi No.1, Mathale's brother. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
MommaC
July 2009 and December 2016 .....Since the government contracts were signed, Mathale resigned as a director of Manaka, but was still a shareholder.
So the deal was signed in the same year he became Premier and the directorship was resigned thereafter.
Thaba Mufamadi has been the MEC for finance in Limpopo since 1999.
Nope, no reason at all to suspect that they know people Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
RobinH
TSOTSI: OTHER THAN THESE KNOWN FACTORS, OF COURSE EVERYTHING IS SPECULATION. But, it is speculation informed by clearly visible patterns in his and many other leaders' behaviour and posturing. There can be little doubtr that he has enriched himself immensely since his rise to his previous position, and I don't think one needs even a grade 3 to put 2 and 2 together and come up with 4, but let's leave it at that, rather than to argue based on assumptions. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
1tsotsi
MommaC
1tsotsi
Where did I say that I 'know'? I was asking a question.
You have to admit that there seems to be a lot of BEE which appears to be reserved for a very small (fast tracked to riches) politically affiliated people
=========
Your statements suggest that you know it all, as they are assumptions, why does it have to be always assumptions when its a black man?
============
Papage
Eish Mathale has great supporters, Tsotsi No.1, enjoy it while it last, the winds of change will befall you as well. good luck with your millions, enjoy
============
Im not a supportor, just stating what i know. Indeed the winds of chamge will befall you and me where we wont criticise without facts.
==================
Papage
So all his deals were signed before 2007 and the contract still runs according to Tsotsi No.1, Mathale's brother.
==========
Did you care you check/ read the original article? It states that the contrats are long term, check the duration of the contract before you comment. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
1tsotsi
MommaC
July 2009 and December 2016 .....Since the government contracts were signed, Mathale resigned as a director of Manaka, but was still a shareholder.
So the deal was signed in the same year he became Premier and the directorship was resigned thereafter.
Thaba Mufamadi has been the MEC for finance in Limpopo since 1999.
Nope, no reason at all to suspect that they know people
=================
Check City press 29 april 2012, to see when the deals where signed, sowetan as always does not publish full stories, those deals were signed is 2007, while he was still the secretary. Dont be selective, or atleast have facts. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
1tsotsi
RobinH
TSOTSI: OTHER THAN THESE KNOWN FACTORS, OF COURSE EVERYTHING IS SPECULATION. But, it is speculation informed by clearly visible patterns in his and many other leaders' behaviour and posturing. There can be little doubtr that he has enriched himself immensely since his rise to his previous position, and I don't think one needs even a grade 3 to put 2 and 2 together and come up with 4, but let's leave it at that, rather than to argue based on assumptions.
======================
My problem has always been to assume that so and so are rich or are good business men coz of who they are alligned to, or are related to, so until we have full facts on the table that there was something wrong on their part then i wont say they wrong, Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
MommaC
1tsotsi
Oh cry me a new race card. That one is just so tattered and torn that it is illegible now. When i questioned that black dude who ran Durban, was it because he was making skelem deals or because he is black? Oh, hold on a sec, he isn't black. Geez you need to get a new tactic for when you are running short of facts.
So 2007 the one partner was the finance MEC for Limpopo and the other partner was the regional secretary for a political party, correct tender procedure wasn't followed but we should assume that it was just a mighty co-incidence that they got the deal? Maybe it was the toothmouse's idea Report Abuse
The only thing that I see wrong here is that Mathale owns a company that got governmant leases without proper procurement just like Roux Shabangu. This mor0n Mathale resigned but remained a shareholder so I wonder what influence he had on these leases and if that can be proven!!! Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
TheDictator
@1tsotsi
.............................................
You nailed them,son.You gave a very mature debate.I'm impressed! Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
Catswhiskers
While there are people like 1tsotsi supporting the anc, they will always be in power.
The coincidences in these type of deals are just too far fetched to be trusted, and listening to the spin doctoring from the politicians, and some of these commentators, you never get a straight answer. There is always an excuse why it is proper. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
RobinH
Dictator. Debate is NOT a contest. It is an exchange of ideas, and I would like to believe that both Tsotsi and I have actually gained something through our "chat". Nobody "nailed" anybody. That is certainly not what I intend when I discuss things with people. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
1tsotsi
Mommac
Very true, but those two are doing business with another province, not the province that Mathale is the premier, theres nothing wrong with that or unless they are business refugees. I'm not trying to play a race card here, just that you so quick to judge when an article relates to a black fellow, you come up with words like cry my beloved country, why im not surprised, thats hypocrecy at its best. According to you whos entitled to do business with government? Had he Mathale not resined as a director i would agree with you, also you cant say he should sell his shares coz you have a problem with him personally Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
1tsotsi
Catswhiskers
While there are people like 1tsotsi supporting the anc, they will always be in power.
The coincidences in these type of deals are just too far fetched to be trusted, and listening to the spin doctoring from the politicians, and some of these commentators, you never get a straight answer. There is always an excuse why it is proper.
===========
Fortunately, south africa is a democratic country, i chose to support the anc. And m not in power, i have never worked for a governmet, never benefited from the government, i dont have a C.C, i'm just a humble south african who refuses to live a speculative and assumption life, i live by the facts of the matter not what the news papers say, i make my own conclusions, my conscious is clear. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
1tsotsi
RobinH
Dictator. Debate is NOT a contest. It is an exchange of ideas, and I would like to believe that both Tsotsi and I have actually gained something through our "chat". Nobody "nailed" anybody. That is certainly not what I intend when I discuss things with people.
==============
Very true, i for once gain alot when engaging with you. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
TheDictator
@RobinH
Dictator. Debate is NOT a contest. It is an exchange of ideas, and I would like to believe that both Tsotsi and I have actually gained something through our "chat". Nobody "nailed" anybody. That is certainly not what I intend when I discuss things with people.
....................................................................
What wins the US election campaign is a debate contest.Two potential candidates stand side by side debating issues and whoever gives a strong debate is likely to win the election because he would've nailed his opponent publicly.So debate is a contest and has always been. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
RobinH
Dictator: Obviously there are two (or more) approaches to debate. One is to win at all costs, to h e l l with reason or logic, and the other is to try and gain some form of common understanding between "opponents" to the advantage of both. Particularly in the realm of politics, where there is no such thing as "truth" but will ALWAYS be an issue of belief, and thus not governed by reasoning. So I still maintain that both Tsotsi and I gained from our exchange, though I remain unaligned to any particular party, and he probably retains his political loyalty. However, we have both gained insight into different ways of seeing (and it seems that Tsotsi agrees with me on this) and developing new ways of looking at things will ALWAYS benefit all involved. So you may hold to your approach and with permission I would prefer to hold to mine. Report Abuse
That is from 2009. Zuma admin..The country being taken straight to the hynas. In 10 years to come this country will be as rich as Somalia(sarcasm). Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
TheDictator
@Robin
So you may hold to your approach and with permission I would prefer to hold to mine.
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
For sure,in my school of thought debate is a contestation of ideas,concepts,beliefs and reasons. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
19851014
Go swana feela mo re no bolaya ke go bolela. Samma ikhomolele, ikhomolele samma ikhomolele, singing the lovely song. Pirates dumela, dumela, Pirates dumela dumela dumela dumela. Tired of corruption, just singing. Mathale o tlwa-ela mare-te, o tlo ka-ka bo-sepa bo-bogolo. Digwa-gwana tsena digwa-gwana tse. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
MommaC
1tsotsi
Show me ONE comment where I have said 'cry my beloved country'. Just a single example will do.
Our governmental track record ensures that we look upon every one of these tenderpreneurial 'anomalies' as suspicious. Just because the majority of the people in the country means that the majority of the tsotis are black. That is the one and only reason. Any politician (blackest of black or whitest of white or anything inbetween) should be able to face public scrutiny over their financial (and ethical) deportment. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
MSG_S
RobinH
Very good. The debate has never been a contest. And never has been won. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
1tsotsi
MommaC
1tsotsi
Show me ONE comment where I have said 'cry my beloved country'. Just a single example will do.
Our governmental track record ensures that we look upon every one of these tenderpreneurial 'anomalies' as suspicious. Just because the majority of the people in the country means that the majority of the tsotis are black. That is the one and only reason. Any politician (blackest of black or whitest of white or anything inbetween) should be able to face public scrutiny over their financial (and ethical) deportment.
==========================
You see again you forget you comments, you once said that some time ago, remember we watching you. Yes they can face public scrutinity from the public not in a bais way like some of you are Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
MommaC
1tsotsi
You are mistaking me for someone else. Its not an expression that I would use unless in reference to the book itself.
With the level of skulduggery that is uncovered, almost daily, gives us reason to be sceptical of government employees business dealings. Mathale has been rumoured to be behind a lot of shady deals (where there is smoke there is usually something burning) so I can't see how having blind faith in the man's honesty would benefit me or my country Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
1tsotsi
MommaC
1tsotsi
You are mistaking me for someone else. Its not an expression that I would use unless in reference to the book itself.
With the level of skulduggery that is uncovered, almost daily, gives us reason to be sceptical of government employees business dealings. Mathale has been rumoured to be behind a lot of shady deals (where there is smoke there is usually something burning) so I can't see how having blind faith in the man's honesty would benefit me or my country
===============
Let that be a topic for another day, a good afternoon to you, stay blessed. Report Abuse
@MSG_S
RobinH
Very good. The debate has never been a contest. And never has been won.
.......................................................................
Some won debates then elections.What makes American electioneering is a debate contest.He who debates the best climbs up the ladder.If your debate is weak,you not gonna make it to the White House.
In RSA debate is not a contest because we do not have debaters,let alone sound debate.we have a bunch of folks of insult each other,make unnecessary noise and call each other names.People up in RSA are emotional and non-thinkers.That is why when you raise genuine issues they call you either counter-revolutionary or racist. Report Abuse
May 7, 2012
MSG_S
Dictator
I hear you broer. but what you just mentioned is the contest of empty promises fed to the public. Of which by any means have a slight chance of kick starting. A debate is where something is put on the table and have to get a work over. Exploring the up and downwards of its outcome in its inception.In a debate all parties end up on a common groung. Report Abuse
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Comments
MommaC
SA, alive with possibility.Can't say I'm surprised but I am getting very tired of this now. There is only so much screwing over we can take
Report Abuse
rasefatee
Sowetan this is old news maaan eish are u lazy?Report Abuse
Papage
What do you use such lots of money for? can't you share with others?Report Abuse
rasefatee
PapageWhat do you use such lots of money for? can't you share with others?
===================================================
lets kidnap one of his kids to get a share of his bllood stained money
Report Abuse
1tsotsi
Come on sowetan this story was reperted in the city press two sundays ago, dont you have other news? I see you editorial room is drying up coz of your pathetic reporting and obssesion with certain individuals.===============
Papage
What do you use such lots of money for? can't you share with others?
===================
Thats question should be directed to Patrice motsepe and cyril ramaphosa, you dont you ask them to share.
Report Abuse
RobinH
SO what's the surprise? This guy's integrity has been a joke since day one. The sad thing is that this sort of thing in our politicians has become so sommonplace that we the public have almost become desensitised.Report Abuse
1tsotsi
RobinHSO what's the surprise? This guy's integrity has been a joke since day one. The sad thing is that this sort of thing in our politicians has become so sommonplace that we the public have almost become desensitised.
============
Did you bother to get the full facts about the overall story boet? Its only fair to criticise based on facts, good morming.
Report Abuse
snazz
OLD NEWS SOWETAN ARE U RUNING OUT OF STORIESReport Abuse
RobinH
Tsotsi: Ignored.Report Abuse
1tsotsi
RobinHTsotsi: Ignored.
=========
?????????
Report Abuse
Papage
Guys just guess who's companies are embroided in the E-Toll of Gauteng? about 35 companies? Eish politicians mara.Report Abuse
hulas
Until the day corruption is criminalized not glorified this problem will persist.anc has done fcukol to stop this looting but one day is one day gravy train passengers will perish into the sea.Report Abuse
rasefatee
sleeping on a pilo full of bank notesReport Abuse
RobinH
tsotsi. I know as much about it as anyone exposed to SA press, and thus comment on what I observe, as do you. Do publish the "real facts" and enlighten us, and then you'll warrant a decnt reply. Till then I shall proceed as usual. Have a good day.Report Abuse
The-Rothschilds
This is the same guy calling for the nationalisation of mines.........should we be trusting him?Report Abuse
RobinH
Rothschilds: Trust Mathale? Not a chance. I'd sooner trust a rab id hyena.Report Abuse
1tsotsi
RobinHtsotsi. I know as much about it as anyone exposed to SA press, and thus comment on what I observe, as do you. Do publish the "real facts" and enlighten us, and then you'll warrant a decnt reply. Till then I shall proceed as usual. Have a good day.
==================
Some of the facts that sowetan should have published, was that Mathale and co. have been doing business since 2007, while Mathale was still a provincial secretary of the ANC, at that time he was not working for government and was fr.ee to do business with anyone just like the constitution of our country entails, surely yo will agree with me, those contracts were long term contracts, then enter Mathale the premier of limpopo, as stated by the cabinet that each and every public officer bearer should declare their intrests within parliament, Mathale did that and he even resigned as a director of the company. So i dont see nothing wrong with that, but id have a problem with him if soem of the buildings he leases are in limpopo, that for me would be a serious conflict of intrest
Report Abuse
Papage
Remember Mathale & Malema are partners, so the Gauteng government hire a building from Mathale? how so? who is fooling who here ANC?Report Abuse
RobinH
Tsotsi: Thanks for that. I am not sure about the ethics of holding shares in a company your province dos business with, even if you resign as director. He never relinquished his shares as far as I know, so would still benefit from any transactions handed the way of the company. But I thank you for the detail, and I'll think about the matter.Report Abuse
MommaC
1tsotsi.... but would he have got the deal (without proper tendering nogal) if he hadn't been politically connected?
Report Abuse
RobinH
MommaC: That's my point. Thanks for laying it out.Report Abuse
Papage
@1Tsotsi we know where Mathale comes from, he has done that amd this, we know.he has connections all over, we know. he is a busineman before a polititian, we know, and he is corrupt, we know, dont try and justify the wrong here, what is happening in Government now is kak broer, friends get tenders and yet your so called President promised that things will change, what has changed? nothing, Things are going from bad to worse instead.Report Abuse
1tsotsi
RobinHTsotsi: Thanks for that. I am not sure about the ethics of holding shares in a company your province dos business with, even if you resign as director. He never relinquished his shares as far as I know, so would still benefit from any transactions handed the way of the company. But I thank you for the detail, and I'll think about the matter.
==================
Very true, he never relinquished his shares, i see no reason for him to, just like any politician turned business man, he did declare his intrest. Theres he skipped a clause that said if you declare your business while holding a higher position you should relinquish your powers, until such clause is embedded i see nothing wrong or also unless according to some who dislike him his wrong abut while some in the very similar position with similar political power are allowed to do.
=======
MommaC
1tsotsi
.... but would he have got the deal (without proper tendering nogal) if he hadn't been politically connected?
=============
I'd h.ate to assume that he got the deal coz of his political connections, but since you "know" that he got that coz of his "connections" i wont argue that, maybe you the one who should enlighten us since you know it all.
Report Abuse
1tsotsi
Papage@1Tsotsi we know where Mathale comes from, he has done that amd this, we know.he has connections all over, we know. he is a busineman before a polititian, we know, and he is corrupt, we know, dont try and justify the wrong here, what is happening in Government now is kak broer, friends get tenders and yet your so called President promised that things will change, what has changed? nothing, Things are going from bad to worse instead.
=============
Glad that you know that his a business man, and is allowed to do business with government. Nothing wrong with that, also remember he made his deals before he became a premier, it was in 2007. Can you please tell of of one business man whos not connected politicaly? Come on dont be a hypocrite, only voicing your opinion against those you dislike but keep quite with those you like, blame it on the constitution of SA. Dont be biter
Report Abuse
MommaC
1tsotsiWhere did I say that I 'know'? I was asking a question.
You have to admit that there seems to be a lot of BEE which appears to be reserved for a very small (fast tracked to riches) politically affiliated people.
Report Abuse
Lehido
im not surprisedReport Abuse
Papage
Eish Mathale has great supporters, Tsotsi No.1, enjoy it while it last, the winds of change will befall you as well. good luck with your millions, enjoyReport Abuse
Papage
So all his deals were signed before 2007 and the contract still runs according to Tsotsi No.1, Mathale's brother.Report Abuse
MommaC
July 2009 and December 2016 .....Since the government contracts were signed, Mathale resigned as a director of Manaka, but was still a shareholder.So the deal was signed in the same year he became Premier and the directorship was resigned thereafter.
Thaba Mufamadi has been the MEC for finance in Limpopo since 1999.
Nope, no reason at all to suspect that they know people
Report Abuse
RobinH
TSOTSI: OTHER THAN THESE KNOWN FACTORS, OF COURSE EVERYTHING IS SPECULATION. But, it is speculation informed by clearly visible patterns in his and many other leaders' behaviour and posturing. There can be little doubtr that he has enriched himself immensely since his rise to his previous position, and I don't think one needs even a grade 3 to put 2 and 2 together and come up with 4, but let's leave it at that, rather than to argue based on assumptions.Report Abuse
1tsotsi
MommaC1tsotsi
Where did I say that I 'know'? I was asking a question.
You have to admit that there seems to be a lot of BEE which appears to be reserved for a very small (fast tracked to riches) politically affiliated people
=========
Your statements suggest that you know it all, as they are assumptions, why does it have to be always assumptions when its a black man?
============
Papage
Eish Mathale has great supporters, Tsotsi No.1, enjoy it while it last, the winds of change will befall you as well. good luck with your millions, enjoy
============
Im not a supportor, just stating what i know. Indeed the winds of chamge will befall you and me where we wont criticise without facts.
==================
Papage
So all his deals were signed before 2007 and the contract still runs according to Tsotsi No.1, Mathale's brother.
==========
Did you care you check/ read the original article? It states that the contrats are long term, check the duration of the contract before you comment.
Report Abuse
1tsotsi
MommaCJuly 2009 and December 2016 .....Since the government contracts were signed, Mathale resigned as a director of Manaka, but was still a shareholder.
So the deal was signed in the same year he became Premier and the directorship was resigned thereafter.
Thaba Mufamadi has been the MEC for finance in Limpopo since 1999.
Nope, no reason at all to suspect that they know people
=================
Check City press 29 april 2012, to see when the deals where signed, sowetan as always does not publish full stories, those deals were signed is 2007, while he was still the secretary. Dont be selective, or atleast have facts.
Report Abuse
1tsotsi
RobinHTSOTSI: OTHER THAN THESE KNOWN FACTORS, OF COURSE EVERYTHING IS SPECULATION. But, it is speculation informed by clearly visible patterns in his and many other leaders' behaviour and posturing. There can be little doubtr that he has enriched himself immensely since his rise to his previous position, and I don't think one needs even a grade 3 to put 2 and 2 together and come up with 4, but let's leave it at that, rather than to argue based on assumptions.
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My problem has always been to assume that so and so are rich or are good business men coz of who they are alligned to, or are related to, so until we have full facts on the table that there was something wrong on their part then i wont say they wrong,
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MommaC
1tsotsiOh cry me a new race card. That one is just so tattered and torn that it is illegible now. When i questioned that black dude who ran Durban, was it because he was making skelem deals or because he is black? Oh, hold on a sec, he isn't black. Geez you need to get a new tactic for when you are running short of facts.
So 2007 the one partner was the finance MEC for Limpopo and the other partner was the regional secretary for a political party, correct tender procedure wasn't followed but we should assume that it was just a mighty co-incidence that they got the deal? Maybe it was the toothmouse's idea
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RobinH
Tsotsi. That's fine.Report Abuse
MorenaWaPolelo
The only thing that I see wrong here is that Mathale owns a company that got governmant leases without proper procurement just like Roux Shabangu. This mor0n Mathale resigned but remained a shareholder so I wonder what influence he had on these leases and if that can be proven!!!Report Abuse
TheDictator
@1tsotsi.............................................
You nailed them,son.You gave a very mature debate.I'm impressed!
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Catswhiskers
While there are people like 1tsotsi supporting the anc, they will always be in power.The coincidences in these type of deals are just too far fetched to be trusted, and listening to the spin doctoring from the politicians, and some of these commentators, you never get a straight answer. There is always an excuse why it is proper.
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RobinH
Dictator. Debate is NOT a contest. It is an exchange of ideas, and I would like to believe that both Tsotsi and I have actually gained something through our "chat". Nobody "nailed" anybody. That is certainly not what I intend when I discuss things with people.Report Abuse
1tsotsi
MommacVery true, but those two are doing business with another province, not the province that Mathale is the premier, theres nothing wrong with that or unless they are business refugees. I'm not trying to play a race card here, just that you so quick to judge when an article relates to a black fellow, you come up with words like cry my beloved country, why im not surprised, thats hypocrecy at its best. According to you whos entitled to do business with government? Had he Mathale not resined as a director i would agree with you, also you cant say he should sell his shares coz you have a problem with him personally
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1tsotsi
CatswhiskersWhile there are people like 1tsotsi supporting the anc, they will always be in power.
The coincidences in these type of deals are just too far fetched to be trusted, and listening to the spin doctoring from the politicians, and some of these commentators, you never get a straight answer. There is always an excuse why it is proper.
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Fortunately, south africa is a democratic country, i chose to support the anc. And m not in power, i have never worked for a governmet, never benefited from the government, i dont have a C.C, i'm just a humble south african who refuses to live a speculative and assumption life, i live by the facts of the matter not what the news papers say, i make my own conclusions, my conscious is clear.
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1tsotsi
RobinHDictator. Debate is NOT a contest. It is an exchange of ideas, and I would like to believe that both Tsotsi and I have actually gained something through our "chat". Nobody "nailed" anybody. That is certainly not what I intend when I discuss things with people.
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Very true, i for once gain alot when engaging with you.
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TheDictator
@RobinHDictator. Debate is NOT a contest. It is an exchange of ideas, and I would like to believe that both Tsotsi and I have actually gained something through our "chat". Nobody "nailed" anybody. That is certainly not what I intend when I discuss things with people.
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What wins the US election campaign is a debate contest.Two potential candidates stand side by side debating issues and whoever gives a strong debate is likely to win the election because he would've nailed his opponent publicly.So debate is a contest and has always been.
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RobinH
Dictator: Obviously there are two (or more) approaches to debate. One is to win at all costs, to h e l l with reason or logic, and the other is to try and gain some form of common understanding between "opponents" to the advantage of both. Particularly in the realm of politics, where there is no such thing as "truth" but will ALWAYS be an issue of belief, and thus not governed by reasoning. So I still maintain that both Tsotsi and I gained from our exchange, though I remain unaligned to any particular party, and he probably retains his political loyalty. However, we have both gained insight into different ways of seeing (and it seems that Tsotsi agrees with me on this) and developing new ways of looking at things will ALWAYS benefit all involved. So you may hold to your approach and with permission I would prefer to hold to mine.Report Abuse
RobinH
Tsotsi. Thanks. I am flattered.Report Abuse
MSG_S
That is from 2009. Zuma admin..The country being taken straight to the hynas. In 10 years to come this country will be as rich as Somalia(sarcasm).Report Abuse
TheDictator
@RobinSo you may hold to your approach and with permission I would prefer to hold to mine.
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For sure,in my school of thought debate is a contestation of ideas,concepts,beliefs and reasons.
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19851014
Go swana feela mo re no bolaya ke go bolela. Samma ikhomolele, ikhomolele samma ikhomolele, singing the lovely song. Pirates dumela, dumela, Pirates dumela dumela dumela dumela. Tired of corruption, just singing. Mathale o tlwa-ela mare-te, o tlo ka-ka bo-sepa bo-bogolo. Digwa-gwana tsena digwa-gwana tse.Report Abuse
MommaC
1tsotsiShow me ONE comment where I have said 'cry my beloved country'. Just a single example will do.
Our governmental track record ensures that we look upon every one of these tenderpreneurial 'anomalies' as suspicious. Just because the majority of the people in the country means that the majority of the tsotis are black. That is the one and only reason. Any politician (blackest of black or whitest of white or anything inbetween) should be able to face public scrutiny over their financial (and ethical) deportment.
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MSG_S
RobinHVery good. The debate has never been a contest. And never has been won.
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1tsotsi
MommaC1tsotsi
Show me ONE comment where I have said 'cry my beloved country'. Just a single example will do.
Our governmental track record ensures that we look upon every one of these tenderpreneurial 'anomalies' as suspicious. Just because the majority of the people in the country means that the majority of the tsotis are black. That is the one and only reason. Any politician (blackest of black or whitest of white or anything inbetween) should be able to face public scrutiny over their financial (and ethical) deportment.
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You see again you forget you comments, you once said that some time ago, remember we watching you. Yes they can face public scrutinity from the public not in a bais way like some of you are
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MommaC
1tsotsiYou are mistaking me for someone else. Its not an expression that I would use unless in reference to the book itself.
With the level of skulduggery that is uncovered, almost daily, gives us reason to be sceptical of government employees business dealings. Mathale has been rumoured to be behind a lot of shady deals (where there is smoke there is usually something burning) so I can't see how having blind faith in the man's honesty would benefit me or my country
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1tsotsi
MommaC1tsotsi
You are mistaking me for someone else. Its not an expression that I would use unless in reference to the book itself.
With the level of skulduggery that is uncovered, almost daily, gives us reason to be sceptical of government employees business dealings. Mathale has been rumoured to be behind a lot of shady deals (where there is smoke there is usually something burning) so I can't see how having blind faith in the man's honesty would benefit me or my country
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Let that be a topic for another day, a good afternoon to you, stay blessed.
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MommaC
1tsotsiGo safe :)
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TheDictator
@MSG_SRobinH
Very good. The debate has never been a contest. And never has been won.
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Some won debates then elections.What makes American electioneering is a debate contest.He who debates the best climbs up the ladder.If your debate is weak,you not gonna make it to the White House.
In RSA debate is not a contest because we do not have debaters,let alone sound debate.we have a bunch of folks of insult each other,make unnecessary noise and call each other names.People up in RSA are emotional and non-thinkers.That is why when you raise genuine issues they call you either counter-revolutionary or racist.
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MSG_S
DictatorI hear you broer. but what you just mentioned is the contest of empty promises fed to the public. Of which by any means have a slight chance of kick starting. A debate is where something is put on the table and have to get a work over. Exploring the up and downwards of its outcome in its inception.In a debate all parties end up on a common groung.
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