PRESSURE is mounting on the government to improve the quality of education, with civil society calling for the Matric pass mark to be increased from 33% to 50%.
So matric pass was 33%? A third? Fail 66% and everything is alright? Mmmmmm Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Papage
How do you improve your knowledge learning under this conditions, our Government is not serious about the future of this Country, they only leave for now and for themselves. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
MommaC
"We care about quality education and lifelong teacher development," Maluleke said
LOL
Everyone is a comedian these days.
What is the purpose of Matric examns? To give universities and other tertiary education systems an idea of the competence of the student in the relevant area. Knowing one third of the work is really pretty pathetic and not a particularly sound foundation for building a career Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
MGEEZ
A 33% is a failer and certainly not a pass!!! Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Vhamsanda
SA is ranked lower than all the third world countries that you can think of educationally. The people that we call names like Makwerekwere, Mgrigamba etc. educationally are way above SA.
Where on earth have you seen a matric pass of 33% ?
Unless we groom people to go and sleep in Parliament sessions. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
There goes the good doctor hopping from bed to bed as usual. She's never had a firm political agenda or anything meaningful for anyone, but somehow she manages to find herself in the media.
No excuse for this senario, where are businessman/Women if goverment fails to build a meer classroom? Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Pointman
@JajasQueen - the doctor is a social activist and not a politician hence the lack of political agenda. Make the connection. And the bed hopping - that is misplaced too - ANC "luminaries" like Zuma, Fikile and others.
I support this 100%
@JaJaQueen
That comment is very disrespectful for a woman like Dr. Ramphele. I would've expected more from you Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
dimpho_4U
He said the call to increase the pass mark from 30% to 50 % was based on fantasy
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this should be made priority,sad indeed....especially the percentage of illiteracy in E.C.
how can a country focus on e-tolling rather than educating its nation? Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Bdoobs
This government especially under Zuma's leadership will not give a fukk about education or anything. All that Zuma tells them is, "look at me, with no education at all, I occupy the highest position on the land".
On the real thou, I wonder how this peanut head feels when he sees a photo like that one, a class under the tree.
And by the way, on Sunday Times, our pres. said he enjoys watch Leon Schuster movies and Mr. Bean, that right there says a lot about him. The Leon Schuster line I can recall is "hey, maratatau" and a Mr. Bean line is "Mhhhh Mhhhh" and that what our president watches.
Mr. President, please read a book, your mind will begin to function... Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Mzalaz
Kids are still learning under the trees and no one says or do anything about it, is this what you people call freedon for all ?
President is so occupied by marrying all the mothers of his kids and spend millions on them, and them they get fat each day,they can't even commit themselves in improving rural areas education, this country is going deep down, and it is going to sink very soon. It makes me think of Mugabe and Uganda late president,and people were busy clapping hands for him and ignoring what he was doing in that country,which was messing it up.
SA will laugh, danse and clap their hands just until the Titanic (SA)sink. I heard someone saying, she doesn't care, as long as her kids still go to private school,but end of d day all of us r going down baby . Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
MorenaWaPolelo
@Mmmooohooo
No excuse for this senario, where are businessman/Women if goverment fails to build a meer classroom?
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I would not take my money and build a mere classroom when I have to fork out money for the e-tolls, petrol, 40% tax on my profits and share dividents. They must take that money and build classes I rather donate toward the church to promote anti rap.e campains!!! Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Pointman
Our parents are lazy too - many of them do not attend the PTA meetings or set high standards for their kids. Not surprisingly, the kids of parents who attend the PTA meetings in my daughters school are the best performers. I made my girl understand that less than 50% is a fail. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
ngutha
Call to raise matric pass mark to 50%
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@pointman, you might have a point, but i wonder as in the case of the rural E.C can parents still be blamed for the poor performance of their kids.....seemingly the kids lack basic needs such as classrooms,books etc______ i think this is plain negligence on the educational department Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@Pointman
Every decade she presents a new potfolio. Education is very political in this country and I think she should stick to campaining for more female entry in institutions of higher learning not locking them out as she is doing.
When you tell 'educators' and students that 33% or 50% is an acceptable pass mark you are immediately setting them up to UNDER achieve!!
If you tell them that 100% is the goal, they have a target so that even if they don't always achieve it they have at least tried their best.
When you expect nothing you get nothing .... Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@SeshegoGuY
I support this 100%
@JaJaQueen
That comment is very disrespectful for a woman like Dr. Ramphele. I would've expected more from you
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On a personal level I have a lot of respect for her, but not on a political one. You know me I am very honest and never one to beat about the bush. She needs to be clear and honest of what drives her mandates - all of them.
You are being a bit economical with the truth there. Just because she isn't a 'ja baaas' doesn't mean she is not telling the truth
Dr. Ramphele has had the same agenda since 1994 - Education. She hasn't changed any of her views on the importance of education, nor has she changed her demands for decent education. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Pabi
It is so unfair for educators and our children in this time and age pupils under the trees, in rainy and dusty weather there is no school. government must do something about this, and for meantime community can help by offering community halls and churches for this kids, winter is around they will freez. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Romy
What Dr Ramphele says makes absolute sense. The pass mark for students at university is 50% (at the University of Cape Town at least). If learners can't achieve 50% at Matric level then what hope do they have of successfully completing a university degree? And it can be done. Our children are not stupid; they just need the correct resources and qualified, dedicated teachers. If taxpayers money stopped going into the back pockets of politicians then there would be enough to pay for educational resources. Why is Minister Angie Motshekga blocking the court application to force the National Dept of Education to provide minimum basic services to schools? Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@MommaC
Well I know her from before 1994. She holds no credibility in political circles and her tackling something as political as education shows her lack of credibility as an educational activist.
@JajasQueen...you sound very naive, stupid, ignorant or some introctrinated ANC stooge, you dont have to hold a firm idea to realise th country is in trouble because of the ANC's incomptence and their callous approach to our problems yet lot of money is being wasted on these officials. I have met many people who returned from exile and many have since discouraged me as a social activist and commentator to affliate myself with any party for the sake of Independent think-something impossible in the ANC as many of you are like sheep following blindly. Mamphele, Moeletsi Mbeki and Jansen are the lonely voice representing the citizens.
You are being a bit economical with the truth there. Just because she isn't a 'ja baaas' doesn't mean she is not telling the truth
Dr. Ramphele has had the same agenda since 1994 - Education. She hasn't changed any of her views on the importance of education, nor has she changed her demands for decent education.
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She is an opportunist & immoral. She had no shame sleeping around with Steve Biko while he was married, what message was she sending to the girls looking up to her, she tried but failed the same thing with Mandela while married to Winnie & Graca. She forever comes out with campaigns with no action & results. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Socrates
Education and health are cornerstone of a growing economy and a developing nation and should never be politicist, to have kids learning under trees after 18 years of democracy shows the level of growth our country is heading..nowhere Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
BaleliM
Who in his\her right mind thought it best to pass these kids @ 33%. That is a fail. No wonder these kids are clueless later on in life. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
MommaC
JajasQueen
Therein lies the problem. Politics and education are not synonymous. In fact the politics of the day should have absolutely no relationship to the quality of education. The future of the children of our country should not be determined by their political affiliation nor should it be hampered by the political views of the MEC in charge of their education.
Stop politicising it and turning our education system into your own private version of apartheid and our kids may even have a future Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Serenade
Less than 50% is fail, I wonder why some public servants are so lazy thats because they advocate for this, Eastern Cape its you again by merely looking at that picture I knew for sure its you. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Socrates
@skhokho21...and you have these assertion/allegation for a fact...she is very out of the league of your idol Zuma, who sleeps with his friends' children..and besides then with Biko's relationship, none of you knows its content besides political and anyway she was still young, a medical student just like Biko was, many of us have made those wrong judgements and should not be charged with them after 50 years Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
kilawea
...the only way the ANC one-party-crime-syndicate can raise the pass mark to over 50% is by giving the "students" and future "youth" element completed exam papers for them to scribble their names only.....and then brag about the party policies success when the results are published after "doctored".........and SADTU can publicly "congratulate" them for their "success and dedication"......... Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@skhokho21
MommaC
She is an opportunist & immoral. She had no shame sleeping around with Steve Biko while he was married, what message was she sending to the girls looking up to her, she tried but failed the same thing with Mandela while married to Winnie & Graca. She forever comes out with campaigns with no action & results.
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And the newspapers always find a way to put her crooked ways in a good light.
??? so our president is morally right to have absolute soccer teams worth of babies out of wedlock but a woman is wrong to have one ???
Strange how you only ever view things through politically tainted glasses Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@Socrates
@JajasQueen...you sound very naive, stupid, ignorant or some introctrinated ANC stooge, you dont have to hold a firm idea to realise th country is in trouble because of the ANC's incomptence and their callous approach to our problems yet lot of money is being wasted on these officials. I have met many people who returned from exile and many have since discouraged me as a social activist and commentator to affliate myself with any party for the sake of Independent think-something impossible in the ANC as many of you are like sheep following blindly. Mamphele, Moeletsi Mbeki and Jansen are the lonely voice representing the citizens.
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....at predsent, there are not enough Rampeles, Madonselas and Jansens to save this country from the ANC cesspit........... Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
spongie
One could say that infrastructure, taxes and strikes are the most important matters that concern this country and they do not care about minor things such as education. *sigh* Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
BaleliM
skhokho21
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She is an opportunist & immoral. She had no shame sleeping around with Steve Biko while he was married, what message was she sending to the girls looking up to her, she tried but failed the same thing with Mandela while married to Winnie & Graca. She forever comes out with campaigns with no action & results.
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And what message is Zuma sending to the young men in this country? Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
kilawea
....why does a third world diktatorship need educated citizens?...They need uneducated and easy-to-control mass to vote for them to win "democritically"...... Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
skhokho21
Socrates, all I was saying she is not the saint you guys are making her to be and every year she comes up with these bright ideas with no substance. Broer I know this auntie, she used to brag about having to call Nelson every morning, how nice & handsome he is & lot of mambu jambu while we busy trying to get things done. JZ is not my idol and I also don`t agree with some of the things he does but he is my president as elected by the majority. I agree we have problems in our education systems, she has access to politicians, she should put her ideas on paper & present it to the powers not run to the media first. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
MommaC
skhokho21
They have done FOUR separate papers on how to revitalise the education system. Last year Prof Jansen headed the team (commissioned by the DoE) which presented yet ANOTHER paper on how to get the education system working. So far they are simply ignored. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
skhunbuzo
Maybe they lowered the standard so that Zuma can also go to school abd complete his grade 7 and later matric. our country is slowly but surely going down with this education system of Zuma Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Idohl
Pathetic, disgrace, shameful, embarassing, disgusting! But what are all these leaders doing? Feeding us bull that the situation is improving with 33%, don't these leaners get a year mark or whatever already? What is this Umalusi after all? We used to sweat for our pass back then. No CASS no nothing! Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
MommaC
Therein lies the problem. Politics and education are not synonymous. In fact the politics of the day should have absolutely no relationship to the quality of education. The future of the children of our country should not be determined by their political affiliation nor should it be hampered by the political views of the MEC in charge of their education.
Stop politicising it and turning our education system into your own private version of apartheid and our kids may even have a future
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Politicising all aspects of society is cast in stone in this country. If you you do not see that ....well???
skhokho21
Socrates, all I was saying she is not the saint you guys are making her to be and every year she comes up with these bright ideas with no substance. Broer I know this auntie, she used to brag about having to call Nelson every morning, how nice & handsome he is & lot of mambu jambu while we busy trying to get things done. JZ is not my idol and I also don`t agree with some of the things he does but he is my president as elected by the majority. I agree we have problems in our education systems, she has access to politicians, she should put her ideas on paper & present it to the powers not run to the media first.
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I am in the same position as you are. This woman has her paws fully entranched in higher learning institutions and instead of her creating programmes to assist our kids into excelling despite challenges faced, she is fighting their entry. She's very wishy washy.
Well I challenge you to 'politic' the lost generations out of existence or at least 'politicise' the futures of the children into something worth while.
You can't polish a turd, Jaja. The facts of the matter is that our education system is not doing our country or our children any favours and you can't politic that away Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@MommaC
JajasQueen
Well I challenge you to 'politic' the lost generations out of existence or at least 'politicise' the futures of the children into something worth while.
You can't polish a turd, Jaja. The facts of the matter is that our education system is not doing our country or our children any favours and you can't politic that away
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Our country has challenges that we cannot vote away. We have a country that was built on rougue political structures which were never done away with. Voting ANC did not eradicate apartheid it just removed NP from power thats all. We use the same system, infrastructure they used, just a mirror image. The right appears on the left and left on the right. People went to the polling stations in 1994 and returned to the same lifestyles they had, nothing changed in this country except the faces in parliament.
There goes the good doctor hopping from bed to bed as usual. She's never had a firm political agenda or anything meaningful for anyone, but somehow she manages to find herself in the media.
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Ramphele is an Vice Chancellor of UCT. If there is anyone who is qualified to speak on education and the preparation of scholars for life after school it is her, show more respect.
Every point she and her coalition raises makes perfect sense. The problem is we tend to celebrate pass rates and how many distinctions we produce and forget that the quality of education is also important. Given that we no longer have HG and SG classes surely 50% is a reasonable benchmark, prove you know at least half the stuff taught during the year and you are ready to go to the next grade. 33% is shameful plus she makes a good point about learning centres, the biggest injustice you can do to your child is deny them the opportunity to be on par with peers at a young age. We do not want another generation of abantwana raised by abogogo as their development is also hampered while other kids are forging ahead and learning new things every day. A child should at the very least be able to read and write by the time they start school. The days of abo Benny and Betty are long gone, we and our future cannot be held hostage by lazy teachers.
These poorly groomed learners are fed to tertiary institutions, they don't cope with the workload resulting in high a dropout rate then blame hunger for it. no one up there seem to care about the future of this country, both Education ministers are working in silos theres no continuity...and this reference to apartheid is outdated. Apartheid regime is gone, people need to move on and carve a better future for the next generation Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@Dzel
There goes the good doctor hopping from bed to bed as usual. She's never had a firm political agenda or anything meaningful for anyone, but somehow she manages to find herself in the media.
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Ramphele is an Vice Chancellor of UCT. If there is anyone who is qualified to speak on education and the preparation of scholars for life after school it is her, show more respect
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I will show respect if she respects the pillars that our constitution stands on. This woman claims to be an activist and at one time has received international funds to set up programmes for the influx of women into higher education and positions in those institutions. Was that ever done? No. Everyone in this country needs to stand firmly on something and she is no where. Now is the perfect opportunity for her to create programmes to help our 34 percenters shine and she is challenging their existance.
She needs to be clear and honest of what drives her mandates - all of them.
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Education is her mandate, why do you view honest criticism that makes perfect sense as antagonistic?
We would be far as a nation if we did not worry so much about agendas and vendettas, instead of denying the existence of a problem doesn’t it make sense to address concerns and make sure you improve your level of service or quality of education in this instance. Same thing happened with Khoza, instead of listening to what he was saying the ANC chose to shout louder, how does that take us forward as a nation Jaja?
If you really cared about this country and our future the least you can do is acknowledge that she makes perfect sense, if you disagree then I worry about you.
It means if i can do 35% of the syllabus and leave the rest 75% I can still pass the exams. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
MommaC
JajasQueen
That doesn't explain anything. That is simply making excuses.
In 1995 when over 700 educational facilities were closed down and then later when the OBE system was implemented (despite it being rejected world wide). the Nats were not responsible. The last 7 months when the teachers have been on some kind of go slow, the Nats were not responsible. When the renovations to a school were not completed last year but the contractor got paid, the Nats were not responsible.
For crying in a bucket. Its time to stop using the apartheid card and start FIXING it. You can't politic the truth away Jaja. Its time to stop creating political hot air and past time to start to DO SOMETHING about it Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Dzel
Jaja,
I will show respect if she respects the pillars that our constitution stands on. This woman claims to be an activist and at one time has received international funds to set up programmes for the influx of women into higher education and positions in those institutions. Was that ever done? No.
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Jaja I will not entertain the above because you are not addressing the points raised in this article, I could if I wanted to but I won’t because it takes us away from the issues raised. Instead I proposed you go through the points mentioned in this article and let us see what you think does not make sense.
Let’s start with the 50% pass mark, why do you think this is a problem, do you think we as a nation are that blunt that we should accept mediocrity as a benchmark future generations should be measured on?
MommaC/Baleli
JZ is not a saint as well & I wont protect his ways but he is a Z u l u & its part of his culture to have more than one w i f e but not making babies out of wedlock especially with his friends that is totally wrong.
MommaC, the problem with these commentators, they are forever rediculling the ANC & Gov in the media and when they make meaningful proposals they are ignored but Im not saying that is right. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Dzel
Sugaar,
It means if i can do 35% of the syllabus and leave the rest 75% I can still pass the exams.
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Not if you don’t realise that 35% + 75% = 110%, not 100%.
Yes, yes, please. We will not remain the economic powerhouse of Africa if we allow our standards to drop to where we say 33% is good enough. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Yoghurt
looking forward to the official launch. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
MommaC
JajasQueen
That doesn't explain anything. That is simply making excuses.
In 1995 when over 700 educational facilities were closed down and then later when the OBE system was implemented (despite it being rejected world wide). the Nats were not responsible. The last 7 months when the teachers have been on some kind of go slow, the Nats were not responsible. When the renovations to a school were not completed last year but the contractor got paid, the Nats were not responsible.
For crying in a bucket. Its time to stop using the apartheid card and start FIXING it. You can't politic the truth away Jaja. Its time to stop creating political hot air and past time to start to DO SOMETHING about it
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We are doing something about it, are you?? We are running the country and stepping over all obstacles presented, are you? We have students who have been previously barred from earning a higher education entry based on apartheid structures, we have challenged and removed those structures, what have you done? We have stepped up and set conditions for higher education to incoporate our students and set incentives for them to make them shine...what have you done? What has she done? It is so easy to set up an opposition mouth piece. I am a shining example of an AA shining star and if it were for fools like this woman I would not have even seen a university door, nor would my children and their children. We should work on opening doors, not closing them!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe the government should keep giving us ammunition to ridicule them with?
This is not a subject that should be politicised. The future of our nation depends on our education system far more than it depends on some political whitewash. This is not an open toilet, it is the entire future of our country at stake. Use other things for petty political games, but don't destroy the futures of our children like this Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
TKay
Parents need to play a role too, they should make time to look at their child reading and writing skills especially at foundation stages. The passing mark of 33% for matric is reduculous, no wonder most kids struggle when they go to tertiary cause the passing mark is 50% and they cant live to that standard. And what is that crap that when a child fails mathematics they fail the entire grade, not all learners will be mathematicians Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
MommaC
JajasQueen
So now I am the Minister of Education and the Minister of Public Works and it is MY fault that the OBE was implemented and that education facilities were closed and that teachers are on strike and that schools are little more than condemned slums? Oh don't be ridiculous. You can play your political little twisting games until the cows come home but it isn't going to FIX THE DAMN PROBLEM. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Sugaar
Dzel
Sugaar,
It means if i can do 35% of the syllabus and leave the rest 75% I can still pass the exams.
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Not if you don’t realise that 35% + 75% = 110%, not 100%.
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There is no need for you to make correction however you have waited your time. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@Dzel
Jaja,
Let’s start with the 50% pass mark, why do you think this is a problem, do you think we as a nation are that blunt that we should accept mediocrity as a benchmark future generations should be measured on?
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I think you together with some of the bloggers here are marks obsessed. Internationally universitys have entry grades to allow easy access to higher education. Matriculants are not the only entrants to these institutions. So if you are talking %s you are missing the point. We have conditional entries, based on maturity and vocational experience. The issue here is comprehension - are we training our students to be able to understand the method of instruction within higher learning. My matric was useless at varsity even though it was a requirement, I had to learn new skills to understand and tackle my courses. English was the biggest obstacle cause I had to translate everyword into .Z.u.l.u. before even understanding the subject. So I refuse to be marks obsessed. Even a non matriculant can earn a degree with the correct guidance.
@MommaC
So now I am the Minister of Education and the Minister of Public Works and it is MY fault that the OBE was implemented and that education facilities were closed and that teachers are on strike and that schools are little more than condemned slums? Oh don't be ridiculous. You can play your political little twisting games until the cows come home but it isn't going to FIX THE DAMN PROBLEM.
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Nothing stopping you from being part of the solution. Nothing has stopped me.
I do not think that those who agree with the Doctor think that she is a saint. Some people here have got tendencies of coming in here every morning just to defend what they know is unjust to society.
A 33% cannot be a pass and its true. Service delivery of less that 33% is also considered low. How can you say that you have performed when you have only finished 33% of your entire project. This is insane. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Dzel
Jaja,
We are doing something about it, are you?? We are running the country and stepping over all obstacles presented, are you? We have students who have been previously barred from earning a higher education entry based on apartheid structures, we have challenged and removed those structures, what have you done? We have stepped up and set conditions for higher education to incoporate our students and set incentives for them to make them shine...what have you done? What has she done? It is so easy to set up an opposition mouth piece. I am a shining example of an AA shining star and if it were for fools like this woman I would not have even seen a university door, nor would my children and their children. We should work on opening doors, not closing them!!!!!!!!!!!!
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*Shakes his head in disbelief*
Women like these, you mean people who have risen to be vice chancellors of a university and done a damn good job of it? You are accusing someone who was entrusted with the running a university as being a barrier to higher learning?
Uyangi disappointer Jaja, somehow I expected better from you, we both know you are smarter than this. I beg you to put aside your membership card for a second and start thinking like a responsible mother, do you think it is OK that government not only dumbed down our education system with the introduction of OBE but they also set laughable standards of measurement which indicates a sub-standard education system?
Do you think it is OK that we score the lowest in terms of maths literacy and science in international exams, is this what YOU have done and are proud of?
I set higher standards for myself that is why when I wrote matric the objective was not to pass that was a given – all HG subjects including Add Maths at IEB standard (ex JMB which was the toughest examination standard in the country at the time) – the point was to get the points required to make it to university. If you aim low then mediocrity is all you will get, somehow we have accepted mediocrity as acceptable. Are YOU also proud of this?
What took you so long....50% is the way to go! Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@Dzel
Women like these, you mean people who have risen to be vice chancellors of a university and done a damn good job of it? You are accusing someone who was entrusted with the running a university as being a barrier to higher learning?
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Disappointing you is the least important thing on my worry list. Women like these should be embracing OBE entrees and helping them, teaching them the ropes of proper learning. Not creating organisations to challenge their existance. She is a disppointment to the advancement of the black person in this country. I have a child in the OBE system and one at varsity and they are doing very well. Why are we pulling our people down with fancy political words. This is simple kids go to school, pass, go to varsity pass, work and make a difference like I did. Simple!
MommaC, 100% agree with you, the sooner these education commentators stay away from politics the better for our education. Prof Jansen, Molebatsi & Mamphela, no one wants to work with someone who keeps on critisizing your efforts.
@all, What is the pass mark on your matric certificates? I hear everyone saying 33% is a fail, just check your certificates, what is the official pass mark. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
MommaC
JajasQueen
Instead of making assumptions, maybe you can tell us just what, exactly, you are doing to improve the state of the education system? Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
tumzangwana
Minister of Basic Education Angie Motshekga's spokesman Panyaza Lesufi said it was harder to pass matric now than it was during apartheid.
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wena Panyaza you are just coming with excuses now. with a name like that you should be driving taxis not talking nonsense like you are now.
I think you together with some of the bloggers here are marks obsessed. Internationally universitys have entry grades to allow easy access to higher education. Matriculants are not the only entrants to these institutions. So if you are talking %s you are missing the point.
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Perhaps we need to backtrack a little and ask the question of what purpose do exams play. Exam is a measure of understanding, retention and application of course material in that order. If you don’t understand you won’t remember, if you don’t remember you won’t apply. This is true from language to sciences; I loved science, I understood the content and therefore understand for example how a speed camera works because it is based on a theory of motion. Because I understood what I was being taught I still remember the formulas today and where I have forgotten the formula I can look it up and apply it correctly.
An exam should measure all three, now if you understood only a 1/3 of the content how can you claim to be competent in the subject in question? What you call an obsession with percentages is actually an obsession with competence which by the way is the objective from day one of any class, right?
Another point is education is accumulative in nature, each year you build on what you have learnt, understood, retained and should be able to apply the year before, how do you build on a sub-standard foundation? Would you build your house on a foundation you know is likely to fold and the structure come tumbling down?
Why do you think it is OK to do this to our kids? Come on Jaja, I should not be explaining the obvious.
Then there is the little fact that at varsity the benchmark is 50%, why do you think so many first years struggle to obtain a pass mark? Think my sister, think.
No,. The sooner politicians stop interfering with the education system and leave it to professionals in their field, the sooner it will be sorted out. I say again. This is bigger than politics, it is the future of our children and our country. It deserves to be treated better Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@Dzel
I set higher standards for myself that is why when I wrote matric the objective was not to pass that was a given – all HG subjects including Add Maths at IEB standard (ex JMB which was the toughest examination standard in the country at the time) – the point was to get the points required to make it to university. If you aim low then mediocrity is all you will get, somehow we have accepted mediocrity as acceptable. Are YOU also proud of this?
_____________________________________
I never received high marks at school, and the first time I ever spoke a paragraph in English with a non black person I was 19 years old. It took me 13 years before I set my foot at varsity and I am still taking more courses to acquire another qualification. People helped me get to where I am. I had tons of challenges against me but people helped. none fought my entry into university, none fought mediocrity. Why are we doing this? Last year I went to a graduation of a friend of mine who at 47 and earned his first degree. Why are we locking our people out? Why?
Yeah, dont know why this hasnt been done earlier. To try and get more people into university?
Meanwhile, we have stampedes at universities of 31% students fighting for entry, who drop out after the first 6 months because they GTE'd.
Its about time the standards were raised. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Kunyeke
I was a Lecturer at a Univ. to be honest some of the students we inherited were unable to spell and write. The standard has really dropped Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Sinudeity
JajasQueen - "Why are we locking our people out? Why?"
Because they dont deserve to be there? Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
MsKinkyakaKamaSutra
During apartheid, you could pass because of an aggregate if the total of all your subjects marks were 720. We do not do that, you are supposed to pass all the subjects."
He said for matric candidates to pass, they are required to get at least 30% for three subjects, including a home language, and 40% for three other subjects.
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You are lying, under apartheid if you failed venarcular (mother tongue), it was a total FAIL irrespective of how many marks you got.
@MommaC
Instead of making assumptions, maybe you can tell us just what, exactly, you are doing to improve the state of the education system?
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I work within a programme which assists boys and girls from marginalised societies to be adopted by corporates and experience their lives. We concentrate on those who've had bouts with the law. Every 1st week of the month we deliver the kids to companies to spend a day with professionals and then assist them into choosing careers they think would suit them. My main passion is in domestic abuse and sexual violence, that's were I always am. That's all I will tell you without blowing my cover. And you what are you doing?
This is really painful hey,33% its the most obvious to tell a student that you didnt study enough, you dont know your work, and you need to pull your socks, but in our education system it denotes a pass.
i thought the idea of school was to prepare you for University, but if pass mark is set 33% and pass mark at University is 50% dont you think we are going to see an increased number of 1st year dropouts?
as long as we have these unions, education wont go anywhere
@Kunyeke
I was a Lecturer at a Univ. to be honest some of the students we inherited were unable to spell and write. The standard has really dropped
____________________________
That sounds great but how does that improve the education system?
(a group of us set up a 'sister-school' system whereby some of the more affluent private schools give a mirror supply of things like stationery and library books to the poorer school. Each parent buys two sets of stationery packs and one goes to the other school, same system with the library books. In my personal capacity I set up a system whereby millers and bakers provide food to schools in poorer areas. The baker I had still provides 10 loves of bread a day to a school in Eesterust) Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
MommaC
Kunyeke
The absolute worst is trying to convince an honours student that SMS language and Wikipedia is not acceptable. Sheesh Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
skhokho21
MommaC
Well if that is the attitude then things will remain the same or go worse, remember the country is ran by these politicians. Remember those changes to the education system must be passed by the very same politicians so you cannot say they must leave it to the so called proffessionals, rather they must work with the politicians for a better SA, irrespective of what they think about these politicians & JZ. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Sinudeity
JajasQueen - Its a university lecturers mandate is to help university students. He's not there to do what the school teachers should have done. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
The-Rothschilds
The only way we are going to get better results from matrics is if we put competent teachers in place, ban teacher unions and send enough resources to previously disadvantaged schools so that the learners have text books and all materials required to pass matric.
The ANC must move away from rhetoric and start delivering.
At this point in time, i dont really care who rules this country because it just seems on a global level, we lack decent leadership in this world, i mean can anyone actually call Mr Cameron and Obama & Bush decent leadership?
skhokho21 - And that seems to be the problem ne? We have wannabe-politicians teaching instead of teachers. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Sinudeity
As it stands, South Africa pumps billions into education, the most out of any other country in Africa. But we are also the least educated country in Africa. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
The-Rothschilds
nghunghunyane
This is really painful hey,33% its the most obvious to tell a student that you didnt study enough, you dont know your work, and you need to pull your socks, but in our education system it denotes a pass.
i thought the idea of school was to prepare you for University, but if pass mark is set 33% and pass mark at University is 50% dont you think we are going to see an increased number of 1st year dropouts?
as long as we have these unions, education wont go anywhere
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Spot on
Something tells me that politicians these days are running out of ideas to fool the public so now they moving to plan B...................destroy education, "lets keep them stupid" so we can carry on looting.
Sinudeity
As it stands, South Africa pumps billions into education, the most out of any other country in Africa. But we are also the least educated country in Africa.
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The spending part is correct, the educational part is debatable Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
mambaaai
MommaC
I recall you asking the Sowetan to give you the name of that little boy that has to walk 7 km to school and would pay for ABC so I have no doubts about your comment above and am quite sure that those are only a few limited examples...
you are another good example of a good human being Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@MommaC
That sounds great but how does that improve the education system?
(a group of us set up a 'sister-school' system whereby some of the more affluent private schools give a mirror supply of things like stationery and library books to the poorer school. Each parent buys two sets of stationery packs and one goes to the other school, same system with the library books. In my personal capacity I set up a system whereby millers and bakers provide food to schools in poorer areas. The baker I had still provides 10 loves of bread a day to a school in Eesterust)
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Good for you....I do not have problems with the education system. Like I said I have two boys who are products of the system and are doing well. My main aim is for them to gain entry into higher learning. I will even jump over a fence to see that happen (all respects).A degree is a degree, for me as long as they can compete with their peers, fine. I do not expect them to be geniuses. I wasn't a genuis at school but now I am doing very well, and more people will do well because of me. We should raise each other. This woman is very educated and can use her influence to set up programmes for challenged students. I remember during apartheid, there was a programme set up to help marginalised students called khaya they prepared students for university after matric.
The bottom line is that the government is getting what they ordered. They do not want your children to be educated. They do not want you to think too much. That is why our country and our world has become so proliferated with entertainments, mass media, television shows, amusement parks, drugs, alcohol, and every kind of entertainment to keep the human mind entertained so that you don't get in the way of important people by doing too much thinking. You better wake up and understand that there are people who are guiding your life and you don't even know it. Report Abuse
I'll find you a comparison of other African countries shortly. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
The-Rothschilds
Candyboy
The bottom line is that the government is getting what they ordered. They do not want your children to be educated. They do not want you to think too much. That is why our country and our world has become so proliferated with entertainments, mass media, television shows, amusement parks, drugs, alcohol, and every kind of entertainment to keep the human mind entertained so that you don't get in the way of important people by doing too much thinking. You better wake up and understand that there are people who are guiding your life and you don't even know it.
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Dont we live so we can drink and party? Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
mambaaai
we must remember that the maticsfor some years now have passed through their entire schooling under ANC hands. ANC civil disobedience, and adverse attitude towardss learning from the struggle days is still there....even in the ANCYL structures Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Candyboy
But there's a reason, there's a reason. There's a reason for this. There's a reason education sucks and its the same reason it will never ever, ever be fixed. It’s never gonna get any better, don't look for it. Be happy with what you got, because the owners of this country don't want that. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. They wana keep you stupid so that you don’t get in the way of their looting…and educate mind is an enemy of the state.
That was Old Lady.
I would loved to help him but I have two kids in tertiary and an 'educational adoptee' in high school. The money is klaar! Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Dzel
Jaja,
I never received high marks at school, and the first time I ever spoke a paragraph in English with a non black person I was 19 years old. It took me 13 years before I set my foot at varsity and I am still taking more courses to acquire another qualification. People helped me get to where I am. I had tons of challenges against me but people helped. none fought my entry into university, none fought mediocrity. Why are we doing this? Last year I went to a graduation of a friend of mine who at 47 and earned his first degree. Why are we locking our people out? Why?
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That is why there is an age qualifier so that those with insufficient marks get an opportunity to study when they are mat.ure enough to handle the responsibility of studying at varsity. I hear you regarding your first interaction in English but don’t you think you should have been afforded that opportunity at school? If you are learning English yet never get to practice what you are being taught then there is something seriously wrong with our education system, simply put you were fa.iled by the system.
The solution is not to du.mb down our education system but to address the root cause, surely in English classes one should be asked to read, discuss, debate and communicate in English. The problem is thina abantu will be up in arms if we were asked to use English as a medium of communication during English cla.sses but just like maths you have to practice speaking the language to increase your level of competency but I suppose this is difficult when the teacher also strug.gles to stri.ke an entire conversation in English.
You really don't see the problem, do you?
Your children aren't suffering so who gives a continental damn if other kids are. That seems to be the general idea with politics so it should come as no surprise that it is your doctrine.
Why is it up to an individual to fight a system which we PAY a minister to do? This nonsense about the political elite having a job with no need to do anything but the general population who PAY THEM must do their work for them is not working. What the hell do we have a Minister of Education (actually two of the lazy sods) for if we must do their jobs? Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@Candyboy
But there's a reason, there's a reason. There's a reason for this. There's a reason education sucks and its the same reason it will never ever, ever be fixed. It’s never gonna get any better, don't look for it. Be happy with what you got, because the owners of this country don't want that. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. They wana keep you stupid so that you don’t get in the way of their looting…and educate mind is an enemy of the state.
___________________________
My darling, we are educated for industry, that's all. If you want knowledge you have to diy!
Lets address the cau.se of the prob.lem for example why sta.rt teac.hing English in Grade 3 or 4 plus ke thina our first exp.osure was reading Benny and Betty – “the c.at is sitting on the table, repeat after me clas.s...” – that is how we were taught but surely it makes better sense to introduce kids to English in early learning centres when their min.ds are still mal.leable and by the time they start schools the ba.sics are cover.ed. The prob.lem is we introduce ba.sics late in one’s schooling career then wond.er why kids stru.ggle.
Education is very close to my heart Jaja, if we are serious about success as a nation we need to prioritise education. My interest lie.s more in the use of technology in education from pre-school to matr.ic which we are behind progressive nations in; my wish is to exp.loit this space. I think technology can overcome many chal.lenges we face including the burden of su.b-stand.ard teachers.
@all, What is the pass mark on your matric certificates? I hear everyone saying 33% is a fail, just check your certificates, what is the official pass mark.
Dr Ramphele was a Vice Chair at UCT nt currently it was late 90s she failed to transform the institution and she was a Vice Pres of world Bank again she failed there is nothing tangible we can point she did for Africa while at WB Grp.
currently she is chair at Goldfieds Ltd again she cannt come up with proposal to help these kids reading under tree , I say to you vooooooetsek with Mamphele vvoooooooooooetsk Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@Dzel
That is why there is an age qualifier so that those with insufficient marks get an opportunity to study when they are mat.ure enough to handle the responsibility of studying at varsity. I hear you regarding your first interaction in English but don’t you think you should have been afforded that opportunity at school? If you are learning English yet never get to practice what you are being taught then there is something seriously wrong with our education system, simply put you were fa.iled by the system.
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I am a product of B.a.n.t.u education...that said I worked hard to reach acceptable market standards. I work in private sector and have to compete with people who had so called better education than I did. Education is not a grd1 to 12 thing. theres a lot that happens inbetween and after. Being able to speak English is not being educated, I've met russian scientists who cannot speak a word of english. Understanding is most important and I think OBE teaches that. We have a big challenge in this country with this English as a medium of instruction.
@MommaC
You really don't see the problem, do you?
Your children aren't suffering so who gives a continental damn if other kids are. That seems to be the general idea with politics so it should come as no surprise that it is your doctrine.
_____________________________
Suffering from what? My children go to the same schools, they dont suffer and they pass?
@Dzel
Education is very close to my heart Jaja, if we are serious about success as a nation we need to prioritise education. My interest lie.s more in the use of technology in education from pre-school to matr.ic which we are behind progressive nations in; my wish is to exp.loit this space. I think technology can overcome many chal.lenges we face including the burden of su.b-stand.ard teachers.
______________________________
There we share a common interest. So this woman should look at programmes to prepare our kids for higher learning, in the US they have community colleges to prepare for 4 years degrees.
Dr Ramphele was a Vice Chair at UCT nt currently it was late 90s she failed to transform the institution and she was a Vice Pres of world Bank again she failed there is nothing tangible we can point she did for Africa while at WB Grp.
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I said ex vice chancellor, I should know as she took over from the post during my time at the institution.
Now that we've got that out of the way do you have anything of consequence to add to the debate at hand besides inhlamba?
Your children do NOT go to a rural school in ECape. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@Dandan
Dzel
woooooo stop you are running too much
Dr Ramphele was a Vice Chair at UCT nt currently it was late 90s she failed to transform the institution and she was a Vice Pres of world Bank again she failed there is nothing tangible we can point she did for Africa while at WB Grp.
currently she is chair at Goldfieds Ltd again she cannt come up with proposal to help these kids reading under tree , I say to you vooooooetsek with Mamphele vvoooooooooooetsk
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Your children do NOT go to a rural school in ECape.
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I do not live in the e.cape. Do your kids go to a rural school in the e.cape? Is your gripe with education in the e.cape or nationally. I think you are one on those people who constantly look for straws to clutch on.
@JJQ
our minority brothers brought education to us, where would we be in the world today without it?
to be fair English is a much better medium than say pedi if one wants to get on in the wide world and enjoy products with manuals from the wide world and have access to written pearls of wisdom becasue not much has been translated into pedi but lots has been translated into English Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
MommaC
JajasQueen
So if it isn't your kids then you couldn't give a continental damn.
Let me go. Your frivolous need to make our children's future into your own personal joke is getting irritating now. Doing the filing may stop my stomach from churning. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Dzel
I am equally disappointed MommaC, to hear Ramphele being called an embarrassment is a bit sickening.
You have no idea what your comments on this article have dented your credibility Jaja, it is really sad to read some of your comments. Very disappointing indeed.
At a pass rate of 33%, we have been encouraging our kids to aim low...no wonder there are so many university drop outs and no wonder why foreigners easily come and take "our jobs"...our education strives for the mediocre. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Dzel
skhokho21
@all, What is the pass mark on your matric certificates? I hear everyone saying 33% is a fail, just check your certificates, what is the official pass mark.
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Yini bhuti, are you one of those abaphase ngama G' and H's?
That was the minimum requirement, person standards were much higher.
Dzel
skhokho21
@all, What is the pass mark on your matric certificates? I hear everyone saying 33% is a fail, just check your certificates, what is the official pass mark.
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Yini bhuti, are you one of those abaphase ngama G' and H's?
That was the minimum requirement, personal standards were much higher. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@mambaaai
@JJQ
our minority brothers brought education to us, where would we be in the world today without it?
to be fair English is a much better medium than say pedi if one wants to get on in the wide world and enjoy products with manuals from the wide world and have access to written pearls of wisdom becasue not much has been translated into pedi but lots has been translated into English
__________________________
My friend you keep refering to the benefits of our minority brothers...do you think we would have been worse off if we did not have billboards in africa, not had tissue paper? Do you even know what this so called civilization means to the existance of mankind? Do you even know that we are the only animals in the world who are so far from nature that we actually see it as a threat to our our existence?
JajasQueen - For one thing, the local population of South Africa would have been far less than what it is today. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
mambaaai
@JJQ
your quote
"I am a product of B.a.n.t.u education...that said I worked hard to reach acceptable market standards. I work in private sector and have to compete with people who had so called better education than I did. Education is not a grd1 to 12 thing. theres a lot that happens inbetween and after. Being able to speak English is not being educated, I've met russian scientists who cannot speak a word of english. Understanding is most important and I think OBE teaches that. We have a big challenge in this country with this English as a medium of instruction. " Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
TKay
@skhokho21
@all, What is the pass mark on your matric certificates? I hear everyone saying 33% is a fail, just check your certificates, what is the official pass mark.
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33% was not a pass cause it was = F symbol Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Afrojoy
@ Mambaaai
It's mostly in Africa (and South America to some extent) where foreign languages are used as media for teaching and learning. Maybe because before we were colonised, no African country had developed a system of writing and reading and there was no schooling. So we have no choice but to learn in foreign languages...the point is not whether that language is English, Russian or Mandarin. It's a bit too late to start trying to change languages of learning don't you think? Lets rather stick to English....try doing calculus in SiPedi. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@MommaC
JajasQueen
So if it isn't your kids then you couldn't give a continental damn.
Let me go. Your frivolous need to make our children's future into your own personal joke is getting irritating now. Doing the filing may stop my stomach from churning.
____________________________________________
My kid is in a government school in the location. So what are you talking about? My son who is at varsity was also in a government school in the location. They are not suffering. Are your kids in a government school? Do you think I am one of those moegoe b.l.a.c.k.s. who think that town schools are better?
Have to agree regarding far less population without tissue paper medical history strongly suggests the people got very sick without that and hand soap, and if Sir Tomas Crapper was not around back then then there would be no arguments or complaints today about our people wanting those white things and having them enclosed Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
skhokho21
Dzel, you don`t do engineering if you pass ngo G & H, the minimum passmark is already low & its been like that for years, even in our time, maybe on Robin`s time it was 27%, its still low.
Tkay, the minimum matric pass mark is around 33,5% that is if my memory still serve me right. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Sinudeity
mambaaai - I wouldnt know about that. But my point was focussing on how the population boom in South Africa only started in 1900. The black population before then was less then 3 million. Its only been in the last 100 years were it exploded to over 40 million.
The reasoning being, excess food generated, medical technology etc, allowed people to sustain bigger families. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Afrojoy
@JajasQueen
Do you think I am one of those moegoe b.l.a.c.k.s. who think that town schools are better?
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Town schools are indeed better...they have better qualified and experienced staff...low student to teacher ratios...they have better resources in terms of learning materials etc...their levels of discipline are usually better (you hardly find k*ids coming to school with pa*ngas or sm*oking nya*ope or making s*ex v*ideos)...general atmosphere conducive to learning (no loser waiting at the school gate to charm your daughter with a stolen car)...the list is endless. Its a product of a*partheid unfortunately.
And if you have to do with township schools, it better be a good one, and you better be diligent vis-a-vis discipline issues, extra lessons, checking homework a bit more sternly. The best of our black people have come out of our township schools...I have deep respect for them - despite the odds.
skhokho21 - But you are not allowed to study engineering with a low pass mark. The admission requirements you need to have are quite stringent. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
mambaaai
Sinudity
the comment given earlier was billboards and tissue paper, certainly TISSUE PAPER, toilets and how to use them are are strongly linked to peoples health, thats one reason why the population numbers you quote. to be fair we wanted and want the things the minority brothers brought , such as their education, because it means quality of life Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@Dzel
I am equally disappointed MommaC, to hear Ramphele being called an embarrassment is a bit sickening.
You have no idea what your comments on this article have dented your credibility Jaja, it is really sad to read some of your comments. Very disappointing indeed.
_____________________________________________________
This is the truth, you cannot give credit to a woman who has not done what she was supposed to do for our community. She must stop shifting posts and mandates and deliver to our communities and maybe she will earn my respect. Right now I have none for her.
Skhokho,
Dzel, you don`t do engineering if you pass ngo G & H, the minimum passmark is already low & its been like that for years, even in our time, maybe on Robin`s time it was 27%, its still low.
Tkay, the minimum matric pass mark is around 33,5% that is if my memory still serve me right.
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The debate is not what the pass rate has been historical but rather what it should be.
Now that we’ve clarified that what are your views on the proposal?
Jaja,
This is the truth, you cannot give credit to a woman who has not done what she was supposed to do for our community. She must stop shifting posts and mandates and deliver to our communities and maybe she will earn my respect. Right now I have none for her.
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I repeat, the debate is not what Ramphele has or has not done but rather the proposal by her organisation on how we should move forward. I could post her achievements but that would be digressing from the topic. Play the game and not the man or woman in this case. Again of the points raised which do you disagree with and why?
Afrojoy
@JajasQueen
Do you think I am one of those moegoe b.l.a.c.k.s. who think that town schools are better?
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And if you have to do with township schools, it better be a good one, and you better be diligent vis-a-vis discipline issues, extra lessons, checking homework a bit more sternly. The best of our black people have come out of our township schools...I have deep respect for them - despite the odds.
____________________________________
I am very lucky in that I am a strict disciplinarian. I took special boxing lessons when my boys were small. So I would box their lungs out of they dared disrespect me or anyone. My kids love school and are dedicated. I encourage them as well because they saw me work and earn my degree infront of them.
Dzel, 50% for schools is to high, we come from JC (STD 8), 27% and we are now around 33,5%. I would say 40% minimum passmark should be introduced with a better education system, where we let our kids choose their careers at grade 10 & her subjects on grade 11 & 12 to be the introduction of her syllabi at tertiary. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
Dzel
Jaja,
This is the truth, you cannot give credit to a woman who has not done what she was supposed to do for our community. She must stop shifting posts and mandates and deliver to our communities and maybe she will earn my respect. Right now I have none for her.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I repeat, the debate is not what Ramphele has or has not done but rather the proposal by her organisation on how we should move forward. I could post her achievements but that would be digressing from the topic. Play the game and not the man or woman in this case. Again of the points raised which do you disagree with and why?
___________________________
I hear you, but that woman has never done anything for the advancement of our people, this is making me even more mad that she would challenge existing institutions for her own agendas. My brother I want to see our people taking over from us and people like her paving the way for them. She might not be a politician but she understands the political implications of her stunts. You see me here day in and day out fighting, everyone knows what I stand for and I will not back down or try to sell our people off.
Well this is one of those "No Sh1t Government" times... The old system worked just fine, the pass rate was brilliant, but no the government was to scr-ew up another system. It is as is they are out to scr-ew with everything. We want higher pass rates? Well make it more lucrative to become an educator, give better incentives that short of thing. It isn't societies job to secure or maintain public education, again that is why governments are put in place: to help society, stop defrauding the job you should do onto us! Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
Bra_NeatDick
This is just another goup's wish list dat will never materialise just for a simple reason South Africa:
Currently how many children manage to get distinctions? How many manage to get University entrance? How many fail matric?
Please lets be realistic.
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True we do not run a clever bunch and we have to make education within reach for them. Not lock them out because they do not make the grade. I was not locked out. Can you imagine if Mommac was responsible for grading my transcripts, I wouldn't be where I am today.
JajasQueen
@mambaaai
@JJQ
our minority brothers brought education to us, where would we be in the world today without it?
to be fair English is a much better medium than say pedi if one wants to get on in the wide world and enjoy products with manuals from the wide world and have access to written pearls of wisdom becasue not much has been translated into pedi but lots has been translated into English
__________________________
My friend you keep refering to the benefits of our minority brothers...do you think we would have been worse off if we did not have billboards in africa, not had tissue paper? Do you even know what this so called civilization means to the existance of mankind? Do you even know that we are the only animals in the world who are so far from nature that we actually see it as a threat to our our existence?
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Noone can truly say the outcome for South Africa had white people never come to SA.
Maybe Africa would of being better off, or maybe even worse, either way, we will never know.
And as things stand, for this country to move forward, education is a must, there is no turning back now. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@The-Rothschilds
Noone can truly say the outcome for South Africa had white people never come to SA.
Maybe Africa would of being better off, or maybe even worse, either way, we will never know.
And as things stand, for this country to move forward, education is a must, there is no turning back now.
___________________________________
JajasQueen
Bra_NeatDick
This is just another goup's wish list dat will never materialise just for a simple reason South Africa:
Currently how many children manage to get distinctions? How many manage to get University entrance? How many fail matric?
Please lets be realistic.
______________________________
True we do not run a clever bunch and we have to make education within reach for them. Not lock them out because they do not make the grade. I was not locked out. Can you imagine if Mommac was responsible for grading my transcripts, I wouldn't be where I am today.
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I agree with you that one should not look only at grades but should evaluate the student as a hole.
If the student has a spark about them that could add value but only managed to achieve 50% matric, does not mean that particular student cannot achieve what the student that get 90% for matric achieves in the real world, infact, the "spark" i personally believe, is what really counts.
Bra_NeatDick - As it stands, only 2% of black matriculants get destinctions, compared to 25% of white matriculants. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
SebolaNtimetseAdikateMoketla
Pass rate 40% finish and klaar
these are our kids you are playing with bl@@dy SA politicians
Some of you have not even passed anything but you have big mouths
University pass mark then 50%- the brain at that stage can retain more, and deal with slightly difficult material.
But then again supplementary exams SECOND CHANCE thats only fair to learners
unless youre like the sebola and its children we only do 80 and up in this family it comes naturally no one asked us to do it that way!
@The-Rothschilds
I agree with you that one should not look only at grades but should evaluate the student as a hole.
If the student has a spark about them that could add value but only managed to achieve 50% matric, does not mean that particular student cannot achieve what the student that get 90% for matric achieves in the real world, infact, the "spark" i personally believe, is what really counts.
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That's what we need to find...the spark. I was very lucky to be at the right place and at the right time otherwise I would have been the typical black woman statistics. We need to give our children a chance in life and stop being so obsessed with grading systems. I failed my matric Maths and no one thought I would be working with figures today. Our society can and should create all sorts of channels to give our kids a chance. Yes we will have the ones who get 11 distinctions and we should allow those to soar even higher but not forget the hang-glidders as well.
Zuma and his MP's must consentrate on burning issues like this one instead of being a POLYGAMIST!!! Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Dzel
Skhokho,
Dzel, 50% for schools is to high, we come from JC (STD 8), 27% and we are now around 33,5%. I would say 40% minimum passmark should be introduced with a better education system, where we let our kids choose their careers at grade 10 & her subjects on grade 11 & 12 to be the introduction of her syllabi at tertiary.
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It is a pity I can’;t find comparative requirements so we can benchmark our requirements against international norm but here is our requirement.
Pass Mark
The following levels must be met as a minimum requirement to proceed to the next grade.
Home Language: Level 3 (minimum 40%)
First Additional Language: Level 2 (minimum 30%)
Mathematics or Mathematical Literacy: Level 2 (minimum 30%)
Life Orientation: Level 3 (minimum 40%)
2 Subjects (Electives): Level 3 (minimum 40%)
Remaining Subject (Elective): Level 2 (minimum 30%)
This means a student can get 30% of both Maths and Science and still pass Matric, you don’t have to understand your formulas and methodology to get 30%. When you look at the number of people who take up these subjects you will be shocked that is because our education system channels students into easy streams so we can brag about high pass rates when students are taking biblical Studies or History as their main subjects and we are happy with mediocre standards.
All this is evident when you look at how our students perform in international exams, we are just about rock bottom of every measure you can think about yet we call ourselves a developed nation and this is because we are happy with mediocrity. Seriously dude 33% is just too low, not unless we intend producing a nation of gardeners and labourers but if we have greater ambitions then this needs to be reflected in how we define competence. I have to be honest with you and state I am disappointed at what has been posted here, a child who puts enough effort into his or her studies should not struggle to get 50%. I seriously don’t understand how anyone can argue this is too high a measure; it is not.
As it stands, only 2% of black matriculants get destinctions, compared to 25% of white matriculants.
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Is that a loaded answer or are you merely answering a question posed by delving into demographics?
Stats like these should be handled with care unless you have enough insight into contributors, for some they serve as proof of the Bell Curve theory that is c.rap.
@Dzel
Can anyone tell me what the hell is Life Orientation anyway?
What about Maths Literacy, what the hell do they teach in Maths Literacy and what is wrong with Maths proper?
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Life Orientation, is basically about life, teaches them to write a check book, how to withdraw from an ATM. One had my son writting all he knows about condoms and HIV. Things I was never taught but needed to learn. I would rather have my child learn things they need. If I was taught at school what a waste of time marriage is...only joking!!! I love marriage.
Nothing wrong with Maths proper......students & teachers alike are too dom for the subject.
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Ja nee, besides Trig which is too conceptual Maths is not difficult at all so why this phobia. All you need to do is learn a methodology and apply it, hell you even get marks for understanding if you can show you understand what you are answering.
We have set standards that are too low. I have been asked to assist some scholars to prepare for exams and with weeks to go the person does not know their formulas, how do you pass geometry when you don't know formulas and these are not difficult. What is difficult in understanding that opposite angles are equal, angles of a triangle or angle in a straight adds up to 180 degrees, angles of a rectangle add up to 360 degrees, etc. Understand the framework and the application therefore is straight forward.
Plus it helps to know the tricks like how to use our hands to do multiplication, very easy to do but not taught by most teachers because they don't know how to but I do this all the time when I need to. Understanding is key to passing maths, the rest is just practice and a lot of it. Perhaps the problem is we fail to teach the basics right and students never recover.
exactly....u proved it 2 urself you are better than what is expected of you....but what happens today.....the mark is 33% and students still fail......we are accepting this mediocrity and students are no longer prepared to push themselves to the limit of success and achieve better marks....and when they wana do their...teachers r@pe and sexually abuse them...pathetic.
China, Turkey, Iran, Switzerland, India, Brazil this are some of the countries we should look and ask what are they doing better than us as they produce more scientist in the world. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Candyboy
@Tabza325is
Its called application and holding people accountable if their departments fail......Application & Accountability....something that does not sit well in SA Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
@Candyboy
@JajasQueen
exactly....u proved it 2 urself you are better than what is expected of you....but what happens today.....the mark is 33% and students still fail......we are accepting this mediocrity and students are no longer prepared to push themselves to the limit of success and achieve better marks....and when they wana do their...teachers r@pe and sexually abuse them...pathetic.
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You must also remember the callibre of students we have - most are a bunch of clueless I dont cares. But some of these IDC's somehow do mature and realise the value of education. I remember in my std8 class we had a boy who stayed in a back room and had a live in lover - and came to school sleepy, no homework done...I left him there and move on. Years later when I bumped into him and he was a medical doctor....well he was still shagging everyone....
Tabza325is
China, Turkey, Iran, Switzerland, India, Brazil this are some of the countries we should look and ask what are they doing better than us as they produce more scientist in the world.
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We should be creating our own standards to be even better than the countries you have mentioned.
@Tabza325is
China, Turkey, Iran, Switzerland, India, Brazil this are some of the countries we should look and ask what are they doing better than us as they produce more scientist in the world.
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Understanding is key to passing maths.........brother, understanding is the key to everything in life...Learn it...know it....understand it....and then apply it....simple!!!! Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
The-Rothschilds
Tabza325is
China, Turkey, Iran, Switzerland, India, Brazil this are some of the countries we should look and ask what are they doing better than us as they produce more scientist in the world.
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We should be creating our own standards to be even better than the countries you have mentioned.
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if you visit any of those countries (China, Turkey, Iran, Switzerland, India, Brazil) and want to speak to somebody and particularly an educated person...they speak their mother tongue and guess which other language you will find they speak....
and the one you will also use to speak to them in....
In my experience you are more likely to meet someone who speaks English in India, Brazil and Africa....the rest you struggle. That's if you are on the streets....boardrooms are different.
Yeah I thought I was one of the 'dom' ones and guess what...I proved myself wrong.
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I refu.se to believe it is about mental ability rather than how one is taught. I mentioned the use of technology in education and covering the basics is key to ensuring proper learning takes place. It is important that a proper foundation is l.aid and students can build on that, unfortunately poorly qualified teachers are to bl.ame for many of the challenges we face question is how do you overcome this.
Perhaps how we teach maths and science is also a prob.lem.
@The-Rothschilds, Too much pride wont take us any were, to ask and learn from those who are ahead of our selves is not to base our standard by their standards but is to learn and improve ourselves as a country. Why is it in SA we always want to jumps ahead of ourselves before first learning and developing ourselves, we want to be above their standards and yet haven't even began to reach their level and compete on the same level, we don't have our own car, our own electronic invented tech or devices, most of the technologies we have this countries are already researching and developing it, that's the standard we first must archive before running to over-take them in those fields, baby steps first, eventually we will reach a level were we could set our own standard of learning and developing. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
mambaaai
@JJQ
So as a business tool and to have terms at ones finger tips and be correct, which would be more useful to you in that scenario, the home language Z.u.l.u or English
they have all seen which tool will works best for them in that environment and which one is perfectly good for the kitchen and dining room at home
Education is all about gaining tools and being proficient
@JajasQueen, the question of language is an important one, but also lets look at our indigenous language to what extend can they be used in translating knowledge into our languages, how do we apply scientific jargon found is science and other fields into our language, what word do we us to identify Geometric angles in Geometry etc. until we can fully translate all subjects into our native languages I agree that for some pupils language will always be a barrier to their learning and development. Because at the end of the day what counts is understanding the knowledge more that the given language. Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
Dzel
JJQ,
Their kids are educated in the mother tongue.
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Somehow knew we will end up at this point.
OK you learn all the scientific terms in your mother tongue but are you going to be speaking isiZulu when in a meeting environment? How long do you think it will take to develop our languages to the point that highly technical material can be taught in isiZulu. Trust me this would be a retrogressive step that will only take us backward, again we are shifting goal posts and not addressing the problem. You’ve explained your situation; the problem is how you were taught rather than which medium of instructions was used.
The solution is simple, teach English at an earlier age so that by the time you get to the difficult stuff a child is competent enough to comprehend what he is being taught.
Understanding is key to passing maths.........brother, understanding is the key to everything in life...Learn it...know it....understand it....and then apply it....simple!!!!
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Exactly CandyBoy, now instead of preaching this message we choose to du.mb down context, to whose benefit exactly?
Tabza325is
@JajasQueen, the question of language is an important one, but also lets look at our indigenous language to what extend can they be used in translating knowledge into our languages, how do we apply scientific jargon found is science and other fields into our language, what word do we us to identify Geometric angles in Geometry etc. until we can fully translate all subjects into our native languages I agree that for some pupils language will always be a barrier to their learning and development. Because at the end of the day what counts is understanding the knowledge more that the given language.
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Language of instruction is still on the shelf right now....you right maybe one day we will find common ground.
one thing we have here is we still this mentality where we view ourselves as victims all the time, in many levels in society....and use these as a weak excuses one way or another.......is not good
sure being instructed in English was not easy for us at the time....but look what a tool it is...and maybe it was a blessing in fact
Language of instruction is still on the shelf right now....you right maybe one day we will find common ground.
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One of government's biggest failures is that there has not been any effort to develop African languages since 1994. Instead the Dept of Arts and Culture is focusing on things like name changes rather than to build and take us forward. We have renowned linguistics lecturing at university, why haven't we formed a committee so that there is a deliberate effort to enrich our languages to a point where one can hold a technical discussion in African languages?
Until we this is done the debate on mother tongue learning is premature and would remain intellectual.
One of government's biggest failures is that there has not been any effort to develop African languages since 1994. Instead the Dept of Arts and Culture is focusing on things like name changes rather than to build and take us forward. We have renowned linguistics lecturing at university, why haven't we formed a committee so that there is a deliberate effort to enrich our languages to a point where one can hold a technical discussion in African languages?
Until we this is done the debate on mother tongue learning is premature and would remain intellectual.
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SAns themselves do not want their own languages. Have you ever heard those stupid parents justify their children not speaking an african language? The silliest excuses are used by our own communities to descriminate against our languages. I am actually impressed by the majority of the bloggers here who can even write our languages, I take my hat off to them.
one thing we have here is we still this mentality where we view ourselves as victims all the time, in many levels in society....and use these as a weak excuses one way or another.......is not good
sure being instructed in English was not easy for us at the time....but look what a tool it is...and maybe it was a blessing in fact
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Yeah that's quite common and encouraged in this society. Thankfully you and I can lead the way.
SAns themselves do not want their own languages. Have you ever heard those stupid parents justify their children not speaking an african language?
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My point exactly. We need to be deliberate how we introduce kids to different languages. I made it a point to teach my son isiZulu first and now his English is improving daily thanks to i-creche and what he picks up watching cartoons. There one thing I will never allow to happen is for English to be used as a primary medium of communication in my house.
Minister of Basic Education Angie Motshekga's spokesman Panyaza Lesufi said it was harder to pass matric now than it was during apartheid
**************
with a pass mark of 33% ???????
ha! Panyaza stop having jonny walker for breakfast, lunch, dinner and in between drinks! your mind is boggled up and is operating at matric pass rate - 33% Report Abuse
Apr 19, 2012
JajasQueen
Dzel
JJQ,
SAns themselves do not want their own languages. Have you ever heard those stupid parents justify their children not speaking an african language?
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My point exactly. We need to be deliberate how we introduce kids to different languages. I made it a point to teach my son isiZulu first and now his English is improving daily thanks to i-creche and what he picks up watching cartoons. There one thing I will never allow to happen is for English to be used as a primary medium of communication in my house.
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Good for you...none of my kids use English in the house. Kids pick language up from the streets, parents do not have to spend a fortune teaching them English. Spend the money on internet access instead, they learn so much from there. Yeah they do watch porn as well, but that's were we parents come in to explain it so they can understand what it is.
I see Google is wrecking havoc in the mobile business though its Android OS. Blackberry is suer to go down or be sold off and now there is turmoil in the Nokia stable with Lumnia failing to compete against the Galaxy range.
Word of advice, if you want a new phone or a tablet go for Android preferable the Galaxy range. I could never understand the fascination with Blackberry.
Good for you...none of my kids use English in the house. Kids pick language up from the streets, parents do not have to spend a fortune teaching them English. Spend the money on internet access instead
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Exactly, parents need to learn to invest in their kids. My phone is full of educational apps and I know someone will be demanding to play games but I know the educational value.
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Comments
Zimboy2
So matric pass was 33%? A third? Fail 66% and everything is alright? MmmmmmReport Abuse
Papage
How do you improve your knowledge learning under this conditions, our Government is not serious about the future of this Country, they only leave for now and for themselves.Report Abuse
MommaC
"We care about quality education and lifelong teacher development," Maluleke saidLOL
Everyone is a comedian these days.
What is the purpose of Matric examns? To give universities and other tertiary education systems an idea of the competence of the student in the relevant area. Knowing one third of the work is really pretty pathetic and not a particularly sound foundation for building a career
Report Abuse
MGEEZ
A 33% is a failer and certainly not a pass!!!Report Abuse
Vhamsanda
SA is ranked lower than all the third world countries that you can think of educationally. The people that we call names like Makwerekwere, Mgrigamba etc. educationally are way above SA.Where on earth have you seen a matric pass of 33% ?
Unless we groom people to go and sleep in Parliament sessions.
Report Abuse
JajasQueen
There goes the good doctor hopping from bed to bed as usual. She's never had a firm political agenda or anything meaningful for anyone, but somehow she manages to find herself in the media.Report Abuse
Mmmooohooo
No excuse for this senario, where are businessman/Women if goverment fails to build a meer classroom?Report Abuse
Pointman
@JajasQueen - the doctor is a social activist and not a politician hence the lack of political agenda. Make the connection. And the bed hopping - that is misplaced too - ANC "luminaries" like Zuma, Fikile and others.Report Abuse
SeshegoGuY
I support this 100%@JaJaQueen
That comment is very disrespectful for a woman like Dr. Ramphele. I would've expected more from you
Report Abuse
dimpho_4U
He said the call to increase the pass mark from 30% to 50 % was based on fantasy-----------------------
this should be made priority,sad indeed....especially the percentage of illiteracy in E.C.
how can a country focus on e-tolling rather than educating its nation?
Report Abuse
Bdoobs
This government especially under Zuma's leadership will not give a fukk about education or anything. All that Zuma tells them is, "look at me, with no education at all, I occupy the highest position on the land".On the real thou, I wonder how this peanut head feels when he sees a photo like that one, a class under the tree.
And by the way, on Sunday Times, our pres. said he enjoys watch Leon Schuster movies and Mr. Bean, that right there says a lot about him. The Leon Schuster line I can recall is "hey, maratatau" and a Mr. Bean line is "Mhhhh Mhhhh" and that what our president watches.
Mr. President, please read a book, your mind will begin to function...
Report Abuse
Mzalaz
Kids are still learning under the trees and no one says or do anything about it, is this what you people call freedon for all ?President is so occupied by marrying all the mothers of his kids and spend millions on them, and them they get fat each day,they can't even commit themselves in improving rural areas education, this country is going deep down, and it is going to sink very soon. It makes me think of Mugabe and Uganda late president,and people were busy clapping hands for him and ignoring what he was doing in that country,which was messing it up.
SA will laugh, danse and clap their hands just until the Titanic (SA)sink. I heard someone saying, she doesn't care, as long as her kids still go to private school,but end of d day all of us r going down baby .
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MorenaWaPolelo
@MmmooohoooNo excuse for this senario, where are businessman/Women if goverment fails to build a meer classroom?
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I would not take my money and build a mere classroom when I have to fork out money for the e-tolls, petrol, 40% tax on my profits and share dividents. They must take that money and build classes I rather donate toward the church to promote anti rap.e campains!!!
Report Abuse
Pointman
Our parents are lazy too - many of them do not attend the PTA meetings or set high standards for their kids. Not surprisingly, the kids of parents who attend the PTA meetings in my daughters school are the best performers. I made my girl understand that less than 50% is a fail.Report Abuse
ngutha
Call to raise matric pass mark to 50%
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+100 POINTS
Report Abuse
dimpho_4U
@pointman, you might have a point, but i wonder as in the case of the rural E.C can parents still be blamed for the poor performance of their kids.....seemingly the kids lack basic needs such as classrooms,books etc______ i think this is plain negligence on the educational departmentReport Abuse
JajasQueen
@PointmanEvery decade she presents a new potfolio. Education is very political in this country and I think she should stick to campaining for more female entry in institutions of higher learning not locking them out as she is doing.
Report Abuse
LBS
When you tell 'educators' and students that 33% or 50% is an acceptable pass mark you are immediately setting them up to UNDER achieve!!If you tell them that 100% is the goal, they have a target so that even if they don't always achieve it they have at least tried their best.
When you expect nothing you get nothing ....
Report Abuse
JajasQueen
@SeshegoGuYI support this 100%
@JaJaQueen
That comment is very disrespectful for a woman like Dr. Ramphele. I would've expected more from you
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On a personal level I have a lot of respect for her, but not on a political one. You know me I am very honest and never one to beat about the bush. She needs to be clear and honest of what drives her mandates - all of them.
Report Abuse
MommaC
JajasQueenYou are being a bit economical with the truth there. Just because she isn't a 'ja baaas' doesn't mean she is not telling the truth
Dr. Ramphele has had the same agenda since 1994 - Education. She hasn't changed any of her views on the importance of education, nor has she changed her demands for decent education.
Report Abuse
Pabi
It is so unfair for educators and our children in this time and age pupils under the trees, in rainy and dusty weather there is no school. government must do something about this, and for meantime community can help by offering community halls and churches for this kids, winter is around they will freez.Report Abuse
Romy
What Dr Ramphele says makes absolute sense. The pass mark for students at university is 50% (at the University of Cape Town at least). If learners can't achieve 50% at Matric level then what hope do they have of successfully completing a university degree? And it can be done. Our children are not stupid; they just need the correct resources and qualified, dedicated teachers. If taxpayers money stopped going into the back pockets of politicians then there would be enough to pay for educational resources. Why is Minister Angie Motshekga blocking the court application to force the National Dept of Education to provide minimum basic services to schools?Report Abuse
JajasQueen
@MommaCWell I know her from before 1994. She holds no credibility in political circles and her tackling something as political as education shows her lack of credibility as an educational activist.
Report Abuse
Socrates
@JajasQueen...you sound very naive, stupid, ignorant or some introctrinated ANC stooge, you dont have to hold a firm idea to realise th country is in trouble because of the ANC's incomptence and their callous approach to our problems yet lot of money is being wasted on these officials. I have met many people who returned from exile and many have since discouraged me as a social activist and commentator to affliate myself with any party for the sake of Independent think-something impossible in the ANC as many of you are like sheep following blindly. Mamphele, Moeletsi Mbeki and Jansen are the lonely voice representing the citizens.Report Abuse
skhokho21
MommaCJajasQueen
You are being a bit economical with the truth there. Just because she isn't a 'ja baaas' doesn't mean she is not telling the truth
Dr. Ramphele has had the same agenda since 1994 - Education. She hasn't changed any of her views on the importance of education, nor has she changed her demands for decent education.
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She is an opportunist & immoral. She had no shame sleeping around with Steve Biko while he was married, what message was she sending to the girls looking up to her, she tried but failed the same thing with Mandela while married to Winnie & Graca. She forever comes out with campaigns with no action & results.
Report Abuse
Socrates
Education and health are cornerstone of a growing economy and a developing nation and should never be politicist, to have kids learning under trees after 18 years of democracy shows the level of growth our country is heading..nowhereReport Abuse
BaleliM
Who in his\her right mind thought it best to pass these kids @ 33%. That is a fail. No wonder these kids are clueless later on in life.Report Abuse
MommaC
JajasQueenTherein lies the problem. Politics and education are not synonymous. In fact the politics of the day should have absolutely no relationship to the quality of education. The future of the children of our country should not be determined by their political affiliation nor should it be hampered by the political views of the MEC in charge of their education.
Stop politicising it and turning our education system into your own private version of apartheid and our kids may even have a future
Report Abuse
Serenade
Less than 50% is fail, I wonder why some public servants are so lazy thats because they advocate for this, Eastern Cape its you again by merely looking at that picture I knew for sure its you.Report Abuse
Socrates
@skhokho21...and you have these assertion/allegation for a fact...she is very out of the league of your idol Zuma, who sleeps with his friends' children..and besides then with Biko's relationship, none of you knows its content besides political and anyway she was still young, a medical student just like Biko was, many of us have made those wrong judgements and should not be charged with them after 50 yearsReport Abuse
kilawea
...the only way the ANC one-party-crime-syndicate can raise the pass mark to over 50% is by giving the "students" and future "youth" element completed exam papers for them to scribble their names only.....and then brag about the party policies success when the results are published after "doctored".........and SADTU can publicly "congratulate" them for their "success and dedication".........Report Abuse
JajasQueen
@skhokho21MommaC
She is an opportunist & immoral. She had no shame sleeping around with Steve Biko while he was married, what message was she sending to the girls looking up to her, she tried but failed the same thing with Mandela while married to Winnie & Graca. She forever comes out with campaigns with no action & results.
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And the newspapers always find a way to put her crooked ways in a good light.
Report Abuse
MommaC
skhokho21??? so our president is morally right to have absolute soccer teams worth of babies out of wedlock but a woman is wrong to have one ???
Strange how you only ever view things through politically tainted glasses
Report Abuse
JajasQueen
@Socrates@JajasQueen...you sound very naive, stupid, ignorant or some introctrinated ANC stooge, you dont have to hold a firm idea to realise th country is in trouble because of the ANC's incomptence and their callous approach to our problems yet lot of money is being wasted on these officials. I have met many people who returned from exile and many have since discouraged me as a social activist and commentator to affliate myself with any party for the sake of Independent think-something impossible in the ANC as many of you are like sheep following blindly. Mamphele, Moeletsi Mbeki and Jansen are the lonely voice representing the citizens.
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Keep up the good work!!!
Report Abuse
kilawea
....at predsent, there are not enough Rampeles, Madonselas and Jansens to save this country from the ANC cesspit...........Report Abuse
spongie
One could say that infrastructure, taxes and strikes are the most important matters that concern this country and they do not care about minor things such as education. *sigh*Report Abuse
BaleliM
skhokho21-----------------------------------------------------
She is an opportunist & immoral. She had no shame sleeping around with Steve Biko while he was married, what message was she sending to the girls looking up to her, she tried but failed the same thing with Mandela while married to Winnie & Graca. She forever comes out with campaigns with no action & results.
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And what message is Zuma sending to the young men in this country?
Report Abuse
kilawea
....why does a third world diktatorship need educated citizens?...They need uneducated and easy-to-control mass to vote for them to win "democritically"......Report Abuse
skhokho21
Socrates, all I was saying she is not the saint you guys are making her to be and every year she comes up with these bright ideas with no substance. Broer I know this auntie, she used to brag about having to call Nelson every morning, how nice & handsome he is & lot of mambu jambu while we busy trying to get things done. JZ is not my idol and I also don`t agree with some of the things he does but he is my president as elected by the majority. I agree we have problems in our education systems, she has access to politicians, she should put her ideas on paper & present it to the powers not run to the media first.Report Abuse
MommaC
skhokho21They have done FOUR separate papers on how to revitalise the education system. Last year Prof Jansen headed the team (commissioned by the DoE) which presented yet ANOTHER paper on how to get the education system working. So far they are simply ignored.
Report Abuse
skhunbuzo
Maybe they lowered the standard so that Zuma can also go to school abd complete his grade 7 and later matric. our country is slowly but surely going down with this education system of ZumaReport Abuse
Idohl
Pathetic, disgrace, shameful, embarassing, disgusting! But what are all these leaders doing? Feeding us bull that the situation is improving with 33%, don't these leaners get a year mark or whatever already? What is this Umalusi after all? We used to sweat for our pass back then. No CASS no nothing!Report Abuse
JajasQueen
MommaCTherein lies the problem. Politics and education are not synonymous. In fact the politics of the day should have absolutely no relationship to the quality of education. The future of the children of our country should not be determined by their political affiliation nor should it be hampered by the political views of the MEC in charge of their education.
Stop politicising it and turning our education system into your own private version of apartheid and our kids may even have a future
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Politicising all aspects of society is cast in stone in this country. If you you do not see that ....well???
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JajasQueen
skhokho21Socrates, all I was saying she is not the saint you guys are making her to be and every year she comes up with these bright ideas with no substance. Broer I know this auntie, she used to brag about having to call Nelson every morning, how nice & handsome he is & lot of mambu jambu while we busy trying to get things done. JZ is not my idol and I also don`t agree with some of the things he does but he is my president as elected by the majority. I agree we have problems in our education systems, she has access to politicians, she should put her ideas on paper & present it to the powers not run to the media first.
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I am in the same position as you are. This woman has her paws fully entranched in higher learning institutions and instead of her creating programmes to assist our kids into excelling despite challenges faced, she is fighting their entry. She's very wishy washy.
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MommaC
JajasQueenWell I challenge you to 'politic' the lost generations out of existence or at least 'politicise' the futures of the children into something worth while.
You can't polish a turd, Jaja. The facts of the matter is that our education system is not doing our country or our children any favours and you can't politic that away
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JajasQueen
@MommaCJajasQueen
Well I challenge you to 'politic' the lost generations out of existence or at least 'politicise' the futures of the children into something worth while.
You can't polish a turd, Jaja. The facts of the matter is that our education system is not doing our country or our children any favours and you can't politic that away
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Our country has challenges that we cannot vote away. We have a country that was built on rougue political structures which were never done away with. Voting ANC did not eradicate apartheid it just removed NP from power thats all. We use the same system, infrastructure they used, just a mirror image. The right appears on the left and left on the right. People went to the polling stations in 1994 and returned to the same lifestyles they had, nothing changed in this country except the faces in parliament.
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Dzel
Jaja,There goes the good doctor hopping from bed to bed as usual. She's never had a firm political agenda or anything meaningful for anyone, but somehow she manages to find herself in the media.
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Ramphele is an Vice Chancellor of UCT. If there is anyone who is qualified to speak on education and the preparation of scholars for life after school it is her, show more respect.
Every point she and her coalition raises makes perfect sense. The problem is we tend to celebrate pass rates and how many distinctions we produce and forget that the quality of education is also important. Given that we no longer have HG and SG classes surely 50% is a reasonable benchmark, prove you know at least half the stuff taught during the year and you are ready to go to the next grade. 33% is shameful plus she makes a good point about learning centres, the biggest injustice you can do to your child is deny them the opportunity to be on par with peers at a young age. We do not want another generation of abantwana raised by abogogo as their development is also hampered while other kids are forging ahead and learning new things every day. A child should at the very least be able to read and write by the time they start school. The days of abo Benny and Betty are long gone, we and our future cannot be held hostage by lazy teachers.
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Blackstone.lebs
These poorly groomed learners are fed to tertiary institutions, they don't cope with the workload resulting in high a dropout rate then blame hunger for it. no one up there seem to care about the future of this country, both Education ministers are working in silos theres no continuity...and this reference to apartheid is outdated. Apartheid regime is gone, people need to move on and carve a better future for the next generationReport Abuse
JajasQueen
@DzelThere goes the good doctor hopping from bed to bed as usual. She's never had a firm political agenda or anything meaningful for anyone, but somehow she manages to find herself in the media.
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Ramphele is an Vice Chancellor of UCT. If there is anyone who is qualified to speak on education and the preparation of scholars for life after school it is her, show more respect
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I will show respect if she respects the pillars that our constitution stands on. This woman claims to be an activist and at one time has received international funds to set up programmes for the influx of women into higher education and positions in those institutions. Was that ever done? No. Everyone in this country needs to stand firmly on something and she is no where. Now is the perfect opportunity for her to create programmes to help our 34 percenters shine and she is challenging their existance.
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Dzel
Jaja,She needs to be clear and honest of what drives her mandates - all of them.
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Education is her mandate, why do you view honest criticism that makes perfect sense as antagonistic?
We would be far as a nation if we did not worry so much about agendas and vendettas, instead of denying the existence of a problem doesn’t it make sense to address concerns and make sure you improve your level of service or quality of education in this instance. Same thing happened with Khoza, instead of listening to what he was saying the ANC chose to shout louder, how does that take us forward as a nation Jaja?
If you really cared about this country and our future the least you can do is acknowledge that she makes perfect sense, if you disagree then I worry about you.
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Sugaar
It means if i can do 35% of the syllabus and leave the rest 75% I can still pass the exams.Report Abuse
MommaC
JajasQueenThat doesn't explain anything. That is simply making excuses.
In 1995 when over 700 educational facilities were closed down and then later when the OBE system was implemented (despite it being rejected world wide). the Nats were not responsible. The last 7 months when the teachers have been on some kind of go slow, the Nats were not responsible. When the renovations to a school were not completed last year but the contractor got paid, the Nats were not responsible.
For crying in a bucket. Its time to stop using the apartheid card and start FIXING it. You can't politic the truth away Jaja. Its time to stop creating political hot air and past time to start to DO SOMETHING about it
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Dzel
Jaja,I will show respect if she respects the pillars that our constitution stands on. This woman claims to be an activist and at one time has received international funds to set up programmes for the influx of women into higher education and positions in those institutions. Was that ever done? No.
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Jaja I will not entertain the above because you are not addressing the points raised in this article, I could if I wanted to but I won’t because it takes us away from the issues raised. Instead I proposed you go through the points mentioned in this article and let us see what you think does not make sense.
Let’s start with the 50% pass mark, why do you think this is a problem, do you think we as a nation are that blunt that we should accept mediocrity as a benchmark future generations should be measured on?
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skhokho21
MommaC/BaleliJZ is not a saint as well & I wont protect his ways but he is a Z u l u & its part of his culture to have more than one w i f e but not making babies out of wedlock especially with his friends that is totally wrong.
MommaC, the problem with these commentators, they are forever rediculling the ANC & Gov in the media and when they make meaningful proposals they are ignored but Im not saying that is right.
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Dzel
Sugaar,It means if i can do 35% of the syllabus and leave the rest 75% I can still pass the exams.
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Not if you don’t realise that 35% + 75% = 110%, not 100%.
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cornelius
Yes, yes, please. We will not remain the economic powerhouse of Africa if we allow our standards to drop to where we say 33% is good enough.Report Abuse
Yoghurt
looking forward to the official launch.Report Abuse
JajasQueen
MommaCJajasQueen
That doesn't explain anything. That is simply making excuses.
In 1995 when over 700 educational facilities were closed down and then later when the OBE system was implemented (despite it being rejected world wide). the Nats were not responsible. The last 7 months when the teachers have been on some kind of go slow, the Nats were not responsible. When the renovations to a school were not completed last year but the contractor got paid, the Nats were not responsible.
For crying in a bucket. Its time to stop using the apartheid card and start FIXING it. You can't politic the truth away Jaja. Its time to stop creating political hot air and past time to start to DO SOMETHING about it
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We are doing something about it, are you?? We are running the country and stepping over all obstacles presented, are you? We have students who have been previously barred from earning a higher education entry based on apartheid structures, we have challenged and removed those structures, what have you done? We have stepped up and set conditions for higher education to incoporate our students and set incentives for them to make them shine...what have you done? What has she done? It is so easy to set up an opposition mouth piece. I am a shining example of an AA shining star and if it were for fools like this woman I would not have even seen a university door, nor would my children and their children. We should work on opening doors, not closing them!!!!!!!!!!!!
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MommaC
skhokho21Maybe the government should keep giving us ammunition to ridicule them with?
This is not a subject that should be politicised. The future of our nation depends on our education system far more than it depends on some political whitewash. This is not an open toilet, it is the entire future of our country at stake. Use other things for petty political games, but don't destroy the futures of our children like this
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TKay
Parents need to play a role too, they should make time to look at their child reading and writing skills especially at foundation stages. The passing mark of 33% for matric is reduculous, no wonder most kids struggle when they go to tertiary cause the passing mark is 50% and they cant live to that standard. And what is that crap that when a child fails mathematics they fail the entire grade, not all learners will be mathematiciansReport Abuse
MommaC
JajasQueenSo now I am the Minister of Education and the Minister of Public Works and it is MY fault that the OBE was implemented and that education facilities were closed and that teachers are on strike and that schools are little more than condemned slums? Oh don't be ridiculous. You can play your political little twisting games until the cows come home but it isn't going to FIX THE DAMN PROBLEM.
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Sugaar
DzelSugaar,
It means if i can do 35% of the syllabus and leave the rest 75% I can still pass the exams.
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Not if you don’t realise that 35% + 75% = 110%, not 100%.
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There is no need for you to make correction however you have waited your time.
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JajasQueen
@DzelJaja,
Let’s start with the 50% pass mark, why do you think this is a problem, do you think we as a nation are that blunt that we should accept mediocrity as a benchmark future generations should be measured on?
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I think you together with some of the bloggers here are marks obsessed. Internationally universitys have entry grades to allow easy access to higher education. Matriculants are not the only entrants to these institutions. So if you are talking %s you are missing the point. We have conditional entries, based on maturity and vocational experience. The issue here is comprehension - are we training our students to be able to understand the method of instruction within higher learning. My matric was useless at varsity even though it was a requirement, I had to learn new skills to understand and tackle my courses. English was the biggest obstacle cause I had to translate everyword into .Z.u.l.u. before even understanding the subject. So I refuse to be marks obsessed. Even a non matriculant can earn a degree with the correct guidance.
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JajasQueen
@MommaCSo now I am the Minister of Education and the Minister of Public Works and it is MY fault that the OBE was implemented and that education facilities were closed and that teachers are on strike and that schools are little more than condemned slums? Oh don't be ridiculous. You can play your political little twisting games until the cows come home but it isn't going to FIX THE DAMN PROBLEM.
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Nothing stopping you from being part of the solution. Nothing has stopped me.
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Yoghurt
I do not think that those who agree with the Doctor think that she is a saint. Some people here have got tendencies of coming in here every morning just to defend what they know is unjust to society.A 33% cannot be a pass and its true. Service delivery of less that 33% is also considered low. How can you say that you have performed when you have only finished 33% of your entire project. This is insane.
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Dzel
Jaja,We are doing something about it, are you?? We are running the country and stepping over all obstacles presented, are you? We have students who have been previously barred from earning a higher education entry based on apartheid structures, we have challenged and removed those structures, what have you done? We have stepped up and set conditions for higher education to incoporate our students and set incentives for them to make them shine...what have you done? What has she done? It is so easy to set up an opposition mouth piece. I am a shining example of an AA shining star and if it were for fools like this woman I would not have even seen a university door, nor would my children and their children. We should work on opening doors, not closing them!!!!!!!!!!!!
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*Shakes his head in disbelief*
Women like these, you mean people who have risen to be vice chancellors of a university and done a damn good job of it? You are accusing someone who was entrusted with the running a university as being a barrier to higher learning?
Uyangi disappointer Jaja, somehow I expected better from you, we both know you are smarter than this. I beg you to put aside your membership card for a second and start thinking like a responsible mother, do you think it is OK that government not only dumbed down our education system with the introduction of OBE but they also set laughable standards of measurement which indicates a sub-standard education system?
Do you think it is OK that we score the lowest in terms of maths literacy and science in international exams, is this what YOU have done and are proud of?
I set higher standards for myself that is why when I wrote matric the objective was not to pass that was a given – all HG subjects including Add Maths at IEB standard (ex JMB which was the toughest examination standard in the country at the time) – the point was to get the points required to make it to university. If you aim low then mediocrity is all you will get, somehow we have accepted mediocrity as acceptable. Are YOU also proud of this?
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Blackthought
What took you so long....50% is the way to go!Report Abuse
JajasQueen
@DzelWomen like these, you mean people who have risen to be vice chancellors of a university and done a damn good job of it? You are accusing someone who was entrusted with the running a university as being a barrier to higher learning?
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Disappointing you is the least important thing on my worry list. Women like these should be embracing OBE entrees and helping them, teaching them the ropes of proper learning. Not creating organisations to challenge their existance. She is a disppointment to the advancement of the black person in this country. I have a child in the OBE system and one at varsity and they are doing very well. Why are we pulling our people down with fancy political words. This is simple kids go to school, pass, go to varsity pass, work and make a difference like I did. Simple!
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skhokho21
MommaC, 100% agree with you, the sooner these education commentators stay away from politics the better for our education. Prof Jansen, Molebatsi & Mamphela, no one wants to work with someone who keeps on critisizing your efforts.@all, What is the pass mark on your matric certificates? I hear everyone saying 33% is a fail, just check your certificates, what is the official pass mark.
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MommaC
JajasQueenInstead of making assumptions, maybe you can tell us just what, exactly, you are doing to improve the state of the education system?
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tumzangwana
Minister of Basic Education Angie Motshekga's spokesman Panyaza Lesufi said it was harder to pass matric now than it was during apartheid.;;;;;;;;;;;;
wena Panyaza you are just coming with excuses now. with a name like that you should be driving taxis not talking nonsense like you are now.
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Dzel
Jaja,I think you together with some of the bloggers here are marks obsessed. Internationally universitys have entry grades to allow easy access to higher education. Matriculants are not the only entrants to these institutions. So if you are talking %s you are missing the point.
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Perhaps we need to backtrack a little and ask the question of what purpose do exams play. Exam is a measure of understanding, retention and application of course material in that order. If you don’t understand you won’t remember, if you don’t remember you won’t apply. This is true from language to sciences; I loved science, I understood the content and therefore understand for example how a speed camera works because it is based on a theory of motion. Because I understood what I was being taught I still remember the formulas today and where I have forgotten the formula I can look it up and apply it correctly.
An exam should measure all three, now if you understood only a 1/3 of the content how can you claim to be competent in the subject in question? What you call an obsession with percentages is actually an obsession with competence which by the way is the objective from day one of any class, right?
Another point is education is accumulative in nature, each year you build on what you have learnt, understood, retained and should be able to apply the year before, how do you build on a sub-standard foundation? Would you build your house on a foundation you know is likely to fold and the structure come tumbling down?
Why do you think it is OK to do this to our kids? Come on Jaja, I should not be explaining the obvious.
Then there is the little fact that at varsity the benchmark is 50%, why do you think so many first years struggle to obtain a pass mark? Think my sister, think.
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MommaC
skhokho21No,. The sooner politicians stop interfering with the education system and leave it to professionals in their field, the sooner it will be sorted out. I say again. This is bigger than politics, it is the future of our children and our country. It deserves to be treated better
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JajasQueen
@DzelI set higher standards for myself that is why when I wrote matric the objective was not to pass that was a given – all HG subjects including Add Maths at IEB standard (ex JMB which was the toughest examination standard in the country at the time) – the point was to get the points required to make it to university. If you aim low then mediocrity is all you will get, somehow we have accepted mediocrity as acceptable. Are YOU also proud of this?
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I never received high marks at school, and the first time I ever spoke a paragraph in English with a non black person I was 19 years old. It took me 13 years before I set my foot at varsity and I am still taking more courses to acquire another qualification. People helped me get to where I am. I had tons of challenges against me but people helped. none fought my entry into university, none fought mediocrity. Why are we doing this? Last year I went to a graduation of a friend of mine who at 47 and earned his first degree. Why are we locking our people out? Why?
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Sinudeity
Yeah, dont know why this hasnt been done earlier. To try and get more people into university?Meanwhile, we have stampedes at universities of 31% students fighting for entry, who drop out after the first 6 months because they GTE'd.
Its about time the standards were raised.
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Kunyeke
I was a Lecturer at a Univ. to be honest some of the students we inherited were unable to spell and write. The standard has really droppedReport Abuse
Sinudeity
JajasQueen - "Why are we locking our people out? Why?"Because they dont deserve to be there?
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MsKinkyakaKamaSutra
During apartheid, you could pass because of an aggregate if the total of all your subjects marks were 720. We do not do that, you are supposed to pass all the subjects."He said for matric candidates to pass, they are required to get at least 30% for three subjects, including a home language, and 40% for three other subjects.
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You are lying, under apartheid if you failed venarcular (mother tongue), it was a total FAIL irrespective of how many marks you got.
Anything under 45% was a fail........ 33% dismal
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JajasQueen
@MommaCInstead of making assumptions, maybe you can tell us just what, exactly, you are doing to improve the state of the education system?
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I work within a programme which assists boys and girls from marginalised societies to be adopted by corporates and experience their lives. We concentrate on those who've had bouts with the law. Every 1st week of the month we deliver the kids to companies to spend a day with professionals and then assist them into choosing careers they think would suit them. My main passion is in domestic abuse and sexual violence, that's were I always am. That's all I will tell you without blowing my cover. And you what are you doing?
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nghunghunyane
This is really painful hey,33% its the most obvious to tell a student that you didnt study enough, you dont know your work, and you need to pull your socks, but in our education system it denotes a pass.i thought the idea of school was to prepare you for University, but if pass mark is set 33% and pass mark at University is 50% dont you think we are going to see an increased number of 1st year dropouts?
as long as we have these unions, education wont go anywhere
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JajasQueen
@KunyekeI was a Lecturer at a Univ. to be honest some of the students we inherited were unable to spell and write. The standard has really dropped
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You are in the best position to help them.
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MommaC
JajasQueenThat sounds great but how does that improve the education system?
(a group of us set up a 'sister-school' system whereby some of the more affluent private schools give a mirror supply of things like stationery and library books to the poorer school. Each parent buys two sets of stationery packs and one goes to the other school, same system with the library books. In my personal capacity I set up a system whereby millers and bakers provide food to schools in poorer areas. The baker I had still provides 10 loves of bread a day to a school in Eesterust)
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MommaC
KunyekeThe absolute worst is trying to convince an honours student that SMS language and Wikipedia is not acceptable. Sheesh
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skhokho21
MommaCWell if that is the attitude then things will remain the same or go worse, remember the country is ran by these politicians. Remember those changes to the education system must be passed by the very same politicians so you cannot say they must leave it to the so called proffessionals, rather they must work with the politicians for a better SA, irrespective of what they think about these politicians & JZ.
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Sinudeity
JajasQueen - Its a university lecturers mandate is to help university students. He's not there to do what the school teachers should have done.Report Abuse
The-Rothschilds
The only way we are going to get better results from matrics is if we put competent teachers in place, ban teacher unions and send enough resources to previously disadvantaged schools so that the learners have text books and all materials required to pass matric.The ANC must move away from rhetoric and start delivering.
At this point in time, i dont really care who rules this country because it just seems on a global level, we lack decent leadership in this world, i mean can anyone actually call Mr Cameron and Obama & Bush decent leadership?
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Sinudeity
skhokho21 - And that seems to be the problem ne? We have wannabe-politicians teaching instead of teachers.Report Abuse
Sinudeity
As it stands, South Africa pumps billions into education, the most out of any other country in Africa. But we are also the least educated country in Africa.Report Abuse
The-Rothschilds
nghunghunyaneThis is really painful hey,33% its the most obvious to tell a student that you didnt study enough, you dont know your work, and you need to pull your socks, but in our education system it denotes a pass.
i thought the idea of school was to prepare you for University, but if pass mark is set 33% and pass mark at University is 50% dont you think we are going to see an increased number of 1st year dropouts?
as long as we have these unions, education wont go anywhere
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Spot on
Something tells me that politicians these days are running out of ideas to fool the public so now they moving to plan B...................destroy education, "lets keep them stupid" so we can carry on looting.
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The-Rothschilds
SinudeityAs it stands, South Africa pumps billions into education, the most out of any other country in Africa. But we are also the least educated country in Africa.
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The spending part is correct, the educational part is debatable
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mambaaai
MommaCI recall you asking the Sowetan to give you the name of that little boy that has to walk 7 km to school and would pay for ABC so I have no doubts about your comment above and am quite sure that those are only a few limited examples...
you are another good example of a good human being
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JajasQueen
@MommaCThat sounds great but how does that improve the education system?
(a group of us set up a 'sister-school' system whereby some of the more affluent private schools give a mirror supply of things like stationery and library books to the poorer school. Each parent buys two sets of stationery packs and one goes to the other school, same system with the library books. In my personal capacity I set up a system whereby millers and bakers provide food to schools in poorer areas. The baker I had still provides 10 loves of bread a day to a school in Eesterust)
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Good for you....I do not have problems with the education system. Like I said I have two boys who are products of the system and are doing well. My main aim is for them to gain entry into higher learning. I will even jump over a fence to see that happen (all respects).A degree is a degree, for me as long as they can compete with their peers, fine. I do not expect them to be geniuses. I wasn't a genuis at school but now I am doing very well, and more people will do well because of me. We should raise each other. This woman is very educated and can use her influence to set up programmes for challenged students. I remember during apartheid, there was a programme set up to help marginalised students called khaya they prepared students for university after matric.
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Candyboy
The bottom line is that the government is getting what they ordered. They do not want your children to be educated. They do not want you to think too much. That is why our country and our world has become so proliferated with entertainments, mass media, television shows, amusement parks, drugs, alcohol, and every kind of entertainment to keep the human mind entertained so that you don't get in the way of important people by doing too much thinking. You better wake up and understand that there are people who are guiding your life and you don't even know it.Report Abuse
Sinudeity
The-Rothschilds - http://www.economist.com/node/15270976I'll find you a comparison of other African countries shortly.
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The-Rothschilds
CandyboyThe bottom line is that the government is getting what they ordered. They do not want your children to be educated. They do not want you to think too much. That is why our country and our world has become so proliferated with entertainments, mass media, television shows, amusement parks, drugs, alcohol, and every kind of entertainment to keep the human mind entertained so that you don't get in the way of important people by doing too much thinking. You better wake up and understand that there are people who are guiding your life and you don't even know it.
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Dont we live so we can drink and party?
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mambaaai
we must remember that the maticsfor some years now have passed through their entire schooling under ANC hands. ANC civil disobedience, and adverse attitude towardss learning from the struggle days is still there....even in the ANCYL structuresReport Abuse
Candyboy
But there's a reason, there's a reason. There's a reason for this. There's a reason education sucks and its the same reason it will never ever, ever be fixed. It’s never gonna get any better, don't look for it. Be happy with what you got, because the owners of this country don't want that. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. They wana keep you stupid so that you don’t get in the way of their looting…and educate mind is an enemy of the state.Source: George Carlin
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MommaC
mambaaaiThat was Old Lady.
I would loved to help him but I have two kids in tertiary and an 'educational adoptee' in high school. The money is klaar!
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Dzel
Jaja,I never received high marks at school, and the first time I ever spoke a paragraph in English with a non black person I was 19 years old. It took me 13 years before I set my foot at varsity and I am still taking more courses to acquire another qualification. People helped me get to where I am. I had tons of challenges against me but people helped. none fought my entry into university, none fought mediocrity. Why are we doing this? Last year I went to a graduation of a friend of mine who at 47 and earned his first degree. Why are we locking our people out? Why?
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That is why there is an age qualifier so that those with insufficient marks get an opportunity to study when they are mat.ure enough to handle the responsibility of studying at varsity. I hear you regarding your first interaction in English but don’t you think you should have been afforded that opportunity at school? If you are learning English yet never get to practice what you are being taught then there is something seriously wrong with our education system, simply put you were fa.iled by the system.
The solution is not to du.mb down our education system but to address the root cause, surely in English classes one should be asked to read, discuss, debate and communicate in English. The problem is thina abantu will be up in arms if we were asked to use English as a medium of communication during English cla.sses but just like maths you have to practice speaking the language to increase your level of competency but I suppose this is difficult when the teacher also strug.gles to stri.ke an entire conversation in English.
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MommaC
JajasQueenYou really don't see the problem, do you?
Your children aren't suffering so who gives a continental damn if other kids are. That seems to be the general idea with politics so it should come as no surprise that it is your doctrine.
Why is it up to an individual to fight a system which we PAY a minister to do? This nonsense about the political elite having a job with no need to do anything but the general population who PAY THEM must do their work for them is not working. What the hell do we have a Minister of Education (actually two of the lazy sods) for if we must do their jobs?
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JajasQueen
@CandyboyBut there's a reason, there's a reason. There's a reason for this. There's a reason education sucks and its the same reason it will never ever, ever be fixed. It’s never gonna get any better, don't look for it. Be happy with what you got, because the owners of this country don't want that. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. They wana keep you stupid so that you don’t get in the way of their looting…and educate mind is an enemy of the state.
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My darling, we are educated for industry, that's all. If you want knowledge you have to diy!
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Dzel
(cont...)Lets address the cau.se of the prob.lem for example why sta.rt teac.hing English in Grade 3 or 4 plus ke thina our first exp.osure was reading Benny and Betty – “the c.at is sitting on the table, repeat after me clas.s...” – that is how we were taught but surely it makes better sense to introduce kids to English in early learning centres when their min.ds are still mal.leable and by the time they start schools the ba.sics are cover.ed. The prob.lem is we introduce ba.sics late in one’s schooling career then wond.er why kids stru.ggle.
Education is very close to my heart Jaja, if we are serious about success as a nation we need to prioritise education. My interest lie.s more in the use of technology in education from pre-school to matr.ic which we are behind progressive nations in; my wish is to exp.loit this space. I think technology can overcome many chal.lenges we face including the burden of su.b-stand.ard teachers.
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skhokho21
@all, What is the pass mark on your matric certificates? I hear everyone saying 33% is a fail, just check your certificates, what is the official pass mark.Report Abuse
Dandan
Dzelwoooooo stop you are running too much
Dr Ramphele was a Vice Chair at UCT nt currently it was late 90s she failed to transform the institution and she was a Vice Pres of world Bank again she failed there is nothing tangible we can point she did for Africa while at WB Grp.
currently she is chair at Goldfieds Ltd again she cannt come up with proposal to help these kids reading under tree , I say to you vooooooetsek with Mamphele vvoooooooooooetsk
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JajasQueen
@DzelThat is why there is an age qualifier so that those with insufficient marks get an opportunity to study when they are mat.ure enough to handle the responsibility of studying at varsity. I hear you regarding your first interaction in English but don’t you think you should have been afforded that opportunity at school? If you are learning English yet never get to practice what you are being taught then there is something seriously wrong with our education system, simply put you were fa.iled by the system.
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I am a product of B.a.n.t.u education...that said I worked hard to reach acceptable market standards. I work in private sector and have to compete with people who had so called better education than I did. Education is not a grd1 to 12 thing. theres a lot that happens inbetween and after. Being able to speak English is not being educated, I've met russian scientists who cannot speak a word of english. Understanding is most important and I think OBE teaches that. We have a big challenge in this country with this English as a medium of instruction.
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JajasQueen
@MommaCYou really don't see the problem, do you?
Your children aren't suffering so who gives a continental damn if other kids are. That seems to be the general idea with politics so it should come as no surprise that it is your doctrine.
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Suffering from what? My children go to the same schools, they dont suffer and they pass?
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JajasQueen
@DzelEducation is very close to my heart Jaja, if we are serious about success as a nation we need to prioritise education. My interest lie.s more in the use of technology in education from pre-school to matr.ic which we are behind progressive nations in; my wish is to exp.loit this space. I think technology can overcome many chal.lenges we face including the burden of su.b-stand.ard teachers.
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There we share a common interest. So this woman should look at programmes to prepare our kids for higher learning, in the US they have community colleges to prepare for 4 years degrees.
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Dzel
Dandan,Dr Ramphele was a Vice Chair at UCT nt currently it was late 90s she failed to transform the institution and she was a Vice Pres of world Bank again she failed there is nothing tangible we can point she did for Africa while at WB Grp.
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I said ex vice chancellor, I should know as she took over from the post during my time at the institution.
Now that we've got that out of the way do you have anything of consequence to add to the debate at hand besides inhlamba?
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MommaC
JajasQueenYour children do NOT go to a rural school in ECape.
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JajasQueen
@DandanDzel
woooooo stop you are running too much
Dr Ramphele was a Vice Chair at UCT nt currently it was late 90s she failed to transform the institution and she was a Vice Pres of world Bank again she failed there is nothing tangible we can point she did for Africa while at WB Grp.
currently she is chair at Goldfieds Ltd again she cannt come up with proposal to help these kids reading under tree , I say to you vooooooetsek with Mamphele vvoooooooooooetsk
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She is an embarrasment.
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JajasQueen
MommaCJajasQueen
Your children do NOT go to a rural school in ECape.
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I do not live in the e.cape. Do your kids go to a rural school in the e.cape? Is your gripe with education in the e.cape or nationally. I think you are one on those people who constantly look for straws to clutch on.
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mambaaai
@JJQour minority brothers brought education to us, where would we be in the world today without it?
to be fair English is a much better medium than say pedi if one wants to get on in the wide world and enjoy products with manuals from the wide world and have access to written pearls of wisdom becasue not much has been translated into pedi but lots has been translated into English
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MommaC
JajasQueenSo if it isn't your kids then you couldn't give a continental damn.
Let me go. Your frivolous need to make our children's future into your own personal joke is getting irritating now. Doing the filing may stop my stomach from churning.
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Dzel
I am equally disappointed MommaC, to hear Ramphele being called an embarrassment is a bit sickening.You have no idea what your comments on this article have dented your credibility Jaja, it is really sad to read some of your comments. Very disappointing indeed.
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Afrojoy
At a pass rate of 33%, we have been encouraging our kids to aim low...no wonder there are so many university drop outs and no wonder why foreigners easily come and take "our jobs"...our education strives for the mediocre.Report Abuse
Dzel
skhokho21@all, What is the pass mark on your matric certificates? I hear everyone saying 33% is a fail, just check your certificates, what is the official pass mark.
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Yini bhuti, are you one of those abaphase ngama G' and H's?
That was the minimum requirement, person standards were much higher.
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Dzel
Dzelskhokho21
@all, What is the pass mark on your matric certificates? I hear everyone saying 33% is a fail, just check your certificates, what is the official pass mark.
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Yini bhuti, are you one of those abaphase ngama G' and H's?
That was the minimum requirement, personal standards were much higher.
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JajasQueen
@mambaaai@JJQ
our minority brothers brought education to us, where would we be in the world today without it?
to be fair English is a much better medium than say pedi if one wants to get on in the wide world and enjoy products with manuals from the wide world and have access to written pearls of wisdom becasue not much has been translated into pedi but lots has been translated into English
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My friend you keep refering to the benefits of our minority brothers...do you think we would have been worse off if we did not have billboards in africa, not had tissue paper? Do you even know what this so called civilization means to the existance of mankind? Do you even know that we are the only animals in the world who are so far from nature that we actually see it as a threat to our our existence?
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Sinudeity
JajasQueen - For one thing, the local population of South Africa would have been far less than what it is today.Report Abuse
mambaaai
@JJQyour quote
"I am a product of B.a.n.t.u education...that said I worked hard to reach acceptable market standards. I work in private sector and have to compete with people who had so called better education than I did. Education is not a grd1 to 12 thing. theres a lot that happens inbetween and after. Being able to speak English is not being educated, I've met russian scientists who cannot speak a word of english. Understanding is most important and I think OBE teaches that. We have a big challenge in this country with this English as a medium of instruction. "
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TKay
@skhokho21@all, What is the pass mark on your matric certificates? I hear everyone saying 33% is a fail, just check your certificates, what is the official pass mark.
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33% was not a pass cause it was = F symbol
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Afrojoy
@ MambaaaiIt's mostly in Africa (and South America to some extent) where foreign languages are used as media for teaching and learning. Maybe because before we were colonised, no African country had developed a system of writing and reading and there was no schooling. So we have no choice but to learn in foreign languages...the point is not whether that language is English, Russian or Mandarin. It's a bit too late to start trying to change languages of learning don't you think? Lets rather stick to English....try doing calculus in SiPedi.
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JajasQueen
@MommaCJajasQueen
So if it isn't your kids then you couldn't give a continental damn.
Let me go. Your frivolous need to make our children's future into your own personal joke is getting irritating now. Doing the filing may stop my stomach from churning.
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My kid is in a government school in the location. So what are you talking about? My son who is at varsity was also in a government school in the location. They are not suffering. Are your kids in a government school? Do you think I am one of those moegoe b.l.a.c.k.s. who think that town schools are better?
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mambaaai
SinudeityHave to agree regarding far less population without tissue paper medical history strongly suggests the people got very sick without that and hand soap, and if Sir Tomas Crapper was not around back then then there would be no arguments or complaints today about our people wanting those white things and having them enclosed
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skhokho21
Dzel, you don`t do engineering if you pass ngo G & H, the minimum passmark is already low & its been like that for years, even in our time, maybe on Robin`s time it was 27%, its still low.Tkay, the minimum matric pass mark is around 33,5% that is if my memory still serve me right.
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Sinudeity
mambaaai - I wouldnt know about that. But my point was focussing on how the population boom in South Africa only started in 1900. The black population before then was less then 3 million. Its only been in the last 100 years were it exploded to over 40 million.The reasoning being, excess food generated, medical technology etc, allowed people to sustain bigger families.
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Afrojoy
@JajasQueenDo you think I am one of those moegoe b.l.a.c.k.s. who think that town schools are better?
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Town schools are indeed better...they have better qualified and experienced staff...low student to teacher ratios...they have better resources in terms of learning materials etc...their levels of discipline are usually better (you hardly find k*ids coming to school with pa*ngas or sm*oking nya*ope or making s*ex v*ideos)...general atmosphere conducive to learning (no loser waiting at the school gate to charm your daughter with a stolen car)...the list is endless. Its a product of a*partheid unfortunately.
And if you have to do with township schools, it better be a good one, and you better be diligent vis-a-vis discipline issues, extra lessons, checking homework a bit more sternly. The best of our black people have come out of our township schools...I have deep respect for them - despite the odds.
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Sinudeity
skhokho21 - But you are not allowed to study engineering with a low pass mark. The admission requirements you need to have are quite stringent.Report Abuse
mambaaai
Sinuditythe comment given earlier was billboards and tissue paper, certainly TISSUE PAPER, toilets and how to use them are are strongly linked to peoples health, thats one reason why the population numbers you quote. to be fair we wanted and want the things the minority brothers brought , such as their education, because it means quality of life
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JajasQueen
@DzelI am equally disappointed MommaC, to hear Ramphele being called an embarrassment is a bit sickening.
You have no idea what your comments on this article have dented your credibility Jaja, it is really sad to read some of your comments. Very disappointing indeed.
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This is the truth, you cannot give credit to a woman who has not done what she was supposed to do for our community. She must stop shifting posts and mandates and deliver to our communities and maybe she will earn my respect. Right now I have none for her.
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Dzel
Skhokho,Dzel, you don`t do engineering if you pass ngo G & H, the minimum passmark is already low & its been like that for years, even in our time, maybe on Robin`s time it was 27%, its still low.
Tkay, the minimum matric pass mark is around 33,5% that is if my memory still serve me right.
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The debate is not what the pass rate has been historical but rather what it should be.
Now that we’ve clarified that what are your views on the proposal?
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Dzel
Jaja,This is the truth, you cannot give credit to a woman who has not done what she was supposed to do for our community. She must stop shifting posts and mandates and deliver to our communities and maybe she will earn my respect. Right now I have none for her.
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I repeat, the debate is not what Ramphele has or has not done but rather the proposal by her organisation on how we should move forward. I could post her achievements but that would be digressing from the topic. Play the game and not the man or woman in this case. Again of the points raised which do you disagree with and why?
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JajasQueen
Afrojoy@JajasQueen
Do you think I am one of those moegoe b.l.a.c.k.s. who think that town schools are better?
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And if you have to do with township schools, it better be a good one, and you better be diligent vis-a-vis discipline issues, extra lessons, checking homework a bit more sternly. The best of our black people have come out of our township schools...I have deep respect for them - despite the odds.
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I am very lucky in that I am a strict disciplinarian. I took special boxing lessons when my boys were small. So I would box their lungs out of they dared disrespect me or anyone. My kids love school and are dedicated. I encourage them as well because they saw me work and earn my degree infront of them.
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skhokho21
Dzel, 50% for schools is to high, we come from JC (STD 8), 27% and we are now around 33,5%. I would say 40% minimum passmark should be introduced with a better education system, where we let our kids choose their careers at grade 10 & her subjects on grade 11 & 12 to be the introduction of her syllabi at tertiary.Report Abuse
JajasQueen
DzelJaja,
This is the truth, you cannot give credit to a woman who has not done what she was supposed to do for our community. She must stop shifting posts and mandates and deliver to our communities and maybe she will earn my respect. Right now I have none for her.
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I repeat, the debate is not what Ramphele has or has not done but rather the proposal by her organisation on how we should move forward. I could post her achievements but that would be digressing from the topic. Play the game and not the man or woman in this case. Again of the points raised which do you disagree with and why?
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I hear you, but that woman has never done anything for the advancement of our people, this is making me even more mad that she would challenge existing institutions for her own agendas. My brother I want to see our people taking over from us and people like her paving the way for them. She might not be a politician but she understands the political implications of her stunts. You see me here day in and day out fighting, everyone knows what I stand for and I will not back down or try to sell our people off.
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Bra_NeatDick
This is just another goup's wish list dat will never materialise just for a simple reason South Africa:Currently how many children manage to get distinctions? How many manage to get University entrance? How many fail matric?
Please lets be realistic.
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Danielrjvv1
Well this is one of those "No Sh1t Government" times... The old system worked just fine, the pass rate was brilliant, but no the government was to scr-ew up another system. It is as is they are out to scr-ew with everything. We want higher pass rates? Well make it more lucrative to become an educator, give better incentives that short of thing. It isn't societies job to secure or maintain public education, again that is why governments are put in place: to help society, stop defrauding the job you should do onto us!Report Abuse
JajasQueen
Bra_NeatDickThis is just another goup's wish list dat will never materialise just for a simple reason South Africa:
Currently how many children manage to get distinctions? How many manage to get University entrance? How many fail matric?
Please lets be realistic.
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True we do not run a clever bunch and we have to make education within reach for them. Not lock them out because they do not make the grade. I was not locked out. Can you imagine if Mommac was responsible for grading my transcripts, I wouldn't be where I am today.
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The-Rothschilds
JajasQueen@mambaaai
@JJQ
our minority brothers brought education to us, where would we be in the world today without it?
to be fair English is a much better medium than say pedi if one wants to get on in the wide world and enjoy products with manuals from the wide world and have access to written pearls of wisdom becasue not much has been translated into pedi but lots has been translated into English
__________________________
My friend you keep refering to the benefits of our minority brothers...do you think we would have been worse off if we did not have billboards in africa, not had tissue paper? Do you even know what this so called civilization means to the existance of mankind? Do you even know that we are the only animals in the world who are so far from nature that we actually see it as a threat to our our existence?
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Noone can truly say the outcome for South Africa had white people never come to SA.
Maybe Africa would of being better off, or maybe even worse, either way, we will never know.
And as things stand, for this country to move forward, education is a must, there is no turning back now.
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JajasQueen
@The-RothschildsNoone can truly say the outcome for South Africa had white people never come to SA.
Maybe Africa would of being better off, or maybe even worse, either way, we will never know.
And as things stand, for this country to move forward, education is a must, there is no turning back now.
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100% agreed
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The-Rothschilds
JajasQueenBra_NeatDick
This is just another goup's wish list dat will never materialise just for a simple reason South Africa:
Currently how many children manage to get distinctions? How many manage to get University entrance? How many fail matric?
Please lets be realistic.
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True we do not run a clever bunch and we have to make education within reach for them. Not lock them out because they do not make the grade. I was not locked out. Can you imagine if Mommac was responsible for grading my transcripts, I wouldn't be where I am today.
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I agree with you that one should not look only at grades but should evaluate the student as a hole.
If the student has a spark about them that could add value but only managed to achieve 50% matric, does not mean that particular student cannot achieve what the student that get 90% for matric achieves in the real world, infact, the "spark" i personally believe, is what really counts.
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Sinudeity
Bra_NeatDick - As it stands, only 2% of black matriculants get destinctions, compared to 25% of white matriculants.Report Abuse
SebolaNtimetseAdikateMoketla
Pass rate 40% finish and klaarthese are our kids you are playing with bl@@dy SA politicians
Some of you have not even passed anything but you have big mouths
University pass mark then 50%- the brain at that stage can retain more, and deal with slightly difficult material.
But then again supplementary exams SECOND CHANCE thats only fair to learners
unless youre like the sebola and its children we only do 80 and up in this family it comes naturally no one asked us to do it that way!
But julle bliksem politicians-
please 40 percent!
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JajasQueen
@The-RothschildsI agree with you that one should not look only at grades but should evaluate the student as a hole.
If the student has a spark about them that could add value but only managed to achieve 50% matric, does not mean that particular student cannot achieve what the student that get 90% for matric achieves in the real world, infact, the "spark" i personally believe, is what really counts.
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That's what we need to find...the spark. I was very lucky to be at the right place and at the right time otherwise I would have been the typical black woman statistics. We need to give our children a chance in life and stop being so obsessed with grading systems. I failed my matric Maths and no one thought I would be working with figures today. Our society can and should create all sorts of channels to give our kids a chance. Yes we will have the ones who get 11 distinctions and we should allow those to soar even higher but not forget the hang-glidders as well.
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Mafu'theNkukhu
Zuma and his MP's must consentrate on burning issues like this one instead of being a POLYGAMIST!!!Report Abuse
Dzel
Skhokho,Dzel, 50% for schools is to high, we come from JC (STD 8), 27% and we are now around 33,5%. I would say 40% minimum passmark should be introduced with a better education system, where we let our kids choose their careers at grade 10 & her subjects on grade 11 & 12 to be the introduction of her syllabi at tertiary.
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It is a pity I can’;t find comparative requirements so we can benchmark our requirements against international norm but here is our requirement.
Pass Mark
The following levels must be met as a minimum requirement to proceed to the next grade.
Home Language: Level 3 (minimum 40%)
First Additional Language: Level 2 (minimum 30%)
Mathematics or Mathematical Literacy: Level 2 (minimum 30%)
Life Orientation: Level 3 (minimum 40%)
2 Subjects (Electives): Level 3 (minimum 40%)
Remaining Subject (Elective): Level 2 (minimum 30%)
This means a student can get 30% of both Maths and Science and still pass Matric, you don’t have to understand your formulas and methodology to get 30%. When you look at the number of people who take up these subjects you will be shocked that is because our education system channels students into easy streams so we can brag about high pass rates when students are taking biblical Studies or History as their main subjects and we are happy with mediocre standards.
All this is evident when you look at how our students perform in international exams, we are just about rock bottom of every measure you can think about yet we call ourselves a developed nation and this is because we are happy with mediocrity. Seriously dude 33% is just too low, not unless we intend producing a nation of gardeners and labourers but if we have greater ambitions then this needs to be reflected in how we define competence. I have to be honest with you and state I am disappointed at what has been posted here, a child who puts enough effort into his or her studies should not struggle to get 50%. I seriously don’t understand how anyone can argue this is too high a measure; it is not.
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Dzel
Can anyone tell me what the hell is Life Orientation anyway?What about Maths Literacy, what the hell do they teach in Maths Literacy and what is wrong with Maths proper?
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Candyboy
@DzelNothing wrong with Maths proper......students & teachers alike are too dom for the subject.
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Dzel
@Sin,As it stands, only 2% of black matriculants get destinctions, compared to 25% of white matriculants.
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Is that a loaded answer or are you merely answering a question posed by delving into demographics?
Stats like these should be handled with care unless you have enough insight into contributors, for some they serve as proof of the Bell Curve theory that is c.rap.
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JajasQueen
@DzelCan anyone tell me what the hell is Life Orientation anyway?
What about Maths Literacy, what the hell do they teach in Maths Literacy and what is wrong with Maths proper?
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Life Orientation, is basically about life, teaches them to write a check book, how to withdraw from an ATM. One had my son writting all he knows about condoms and HIV. Things I was never taught but needed to learn. I would rather have my child learn things they need. If I was taught at school what a waste of time marriage is...only joking!!! I love marriage.
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JajasQueen
Candyboy@Dzel
Nothing wrong with Maths proper......students & teachers alike are too dom for the subject.
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Yeah I thought I was one of the 'dom' ones and guess what...I proved myself wrong.
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Dzel
@CandyBoy,Nothing wrong with Maths proper......students & teachers alike are too dom for the subject.
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Ja nee, besides Trig which is too conceptual Maths is not difficult at all so why this phobia. All you need to do is learn a methodology and apply it, hell you even get marks for understanding if you can show you understand what you are answering.
We have set standards that are too low. I have been asked to assist some scholars to prepare for exams and with weeks to go the person does not know their formulas, how do you pass geometry when you don't know formulas and these are not difficult. What is difficult in understanding that opposite angles are equal, angles of a triangle or angle in a straight adds up to 180 degrees, angles of a rectangle add up to 360 degrees, etc. Understand the framework and the application therefore is straight forward.
Plus it helps to know the tricks like how to use our hands to do multiplication, very easy to do but not taught by most teachers because they don't know how to but I do this all the time when I need to. Understanding is key to passing maths, the rest is just practice and a lot of it. Perhaps the problem is we fail to teach the basics right and students never recover.
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Candyboy
@JajasQueenexactly....u proved it 2 urself you are better than what is expected of you....but what happens today.....the mark is 33% and students still fail......we are accepting this mediocrity and students are no longer prepared to push themselves to the limit of success and achieve better marks....and when they wana do their...teachers r@pe and sexually abuse them...pathetic.
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Tabza325is
China, Turkey, Iran, Switzerland, India, Brazil this are some of the countries we should look and ask what are they doing better than us as they produce more scientist in the world.Report Abuse
Candyboy
@Tabza325isIts called application and holding people accountable if their departments fail......Application & Accountability....something that does not sit well in SA
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JajasQueen
@Candyboy@JajasQueen
exactly....u proved it 2 urself you are better than what is expected of you....but what happens today.....the mark is 33% and students still fail......we are accepting this mediocrity and students are no longer prepared to push themselves to the limit of success and achieve better marks....and when they wana do their...teachers r@pe and sexually abuse them...pathetic.
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You must also remember the callibre of students we have - most are a bunch of clueless I dont cares. But some of these IDC's somehow do mature and realise the value of education. I remember in my std8 class we had a boy who stayed in a back room and had a live in lover - and came to school sleepy, no homework done...I left him there and move on. Years later when I bumped into him and he was a medical doctor....well he was still shagging everyone....
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The-Rothschilds
Tabza325isChina, Turkey, Iran, Switzerland, India, Brazil this are some of the countries we should look and ask what are they doing better than us as they produce more scientist in the world.
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We should be creating our own standards to be even better than the countries you have mentioned.
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JajasQueen
@Tabza325isChina, Turkey, Iran, Switzerland, India, Brazil this are some of the countries we should look and ask what are they doing better than us as they produce more scientist in the world.
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Their kids are educated in the mother tongue.
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Candyboy
@DzelUnderstanding is key to passing maths.........brother, understanding is the key to everything in life...Learn it...know it....understand it....and then apply it....simple!!!!
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JajasQueen
The-RothschildsTabza325is
China, Turkey, Iran, Switzerland, India, Brazil this are some of the countries we should look and ask what are they doing better than us as they produce more scientist in the world.
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We should be creating our own standards to be even better than the countries you have mentioned.
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True and that takes time.
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mambaaai
@JJQif you visit any of those countries (China, Turkey, Iran, Switzerland, India, Brazil) and want to speak to somebody and particularly an educated person...they speak their mother tongue and guess which other language you will find they speak....
and the one you will also use to speak to them in....
one little guess.....
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JajasQueen
@mambaaaiIn my experience you are more likely to meet someone who speaks English in India, Brazil and Africa....the rest you struggle. That's if you are on the streets....boardrooms are different.
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Dzel
JJQ,Yeah I thought I was one of the 'dom' ones and guess what...I proved myself wrong.
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I refu.se to believe it is about mental ability rather than how one is taught. I mentioned the use of technology in education and covering the basics is key to ensuring proper learning takes place. It is important that a proper foundation is l.aid and students can build on that, unfortunately poorly qualified teachers are to bl.ame for many of the challenges we face question is how do you overcome this.
Perhaps how we teach maths and science is also a prob.lem.
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Tabza325is
@The-Rothschilds, Too much pride wont take us any were, to ask and learn from those who are ahead of our selves is not to base our standard by their standards but is to learn and improve ourselves as a country. Why is it in SA we always want to jumps ahead of ourselves before first learning and developing ourselves, we want to be above their standards and yet haven't even began to reach their level and compete on the same level, we don't have our own car, our own electronic invented tech or devices, most of the technologies we have this countries are already researching and developing it, that's the standard we first must archive before running to over-take them in those fields, baby steps first, eventually we will reach a level were we could set our own standard of learning and developing.Report Abuse
mambaaai
@JJQSo as a business tool and to have terms at ones finger tips and be correct, which would be more useful to you in that scenario, the home language Z.u.l.u or English
they have all seen which tool will works best for them in that environment and which one is perfectly good for the kitchen and dining room at home
Education is all about gaining tools and being proficient
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Tabza325is
@JajasQueen, the question of language is an important one, but also lets look at our indigenous language to what extend can they be used in translating knowledge into our languages, how do we apply scientific jargon found is science and other fields into our language, what word do we us to identify Geometric angles in Geometry etc. until we can fully translate all subjects into our native languages I agree that for some pupils language will always be a barrier to their learning and development. Because at the end of the day what counts is understanding the knowledge more that the given language.Report Abuse
Dzel
JJQ,Their kids are educated in the mother tongue.
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Somehow knew we will end up at this point.
OK you learn all the scientific terms in your mother tongue but are you going to be speaking isiZulu when in a meeting environment? How long do you think it will take to develop our languages to the point that highly technical material can be taught in isiZulu. Trust me this would be a retrogressive step that will only take us backward, again we are shifting goal posts and not addressing the problem. You’ve explained your situation; the problem is how you were taught rather than which medium of instructions was used.
The solution is simple, teach English at an earlier age so that by the time you get to the difficult stuff a child is competent enough to comprehend what he is being taught.
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Dzel
Candyboy@Dzel
Understanding is key to passing maths.........brother, understanding is the key to everything in life...Learn it...know it....understand it....and then apply it....simple!!!!
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Exactly CandyBoy, now instead of preaching this message we choose to du.mb down context, to whose benefit exactly?
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JajasQueen
Tabza325is@JajasQueen, the question of language is an important one, but also lets look at our indigenous language to what extend can they be used in translating knowledge into our languages, how do we apply scientific jargon found is science and other fields into our language, what word do we us to identify Geometric angles in Geometry etc. until we can fully translate all subjects into our native languages I agree that for some pupils language will always be a barrier to their learning and development. Because at the end of the day what counts is understanding the knowledge more that the given language.
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Language of instruction is still on the shelf right now....you right maybe one day we will find common ground.
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mambaaai
@JJQone thing we have here is we still this mentality where we view ourselves as victims all the time, in many levels in society....and use these as a weak excuses one way or another.......is not good
sure being instructed in English was not easy for us at the time....but look what a tool it is...and maybe it was a blessing in fact
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Dzel
JJQ,Language of instruction is still on the shelf right now....you right maybe one day we will find common ground.
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One of government's biggest failures is that there has not been any effort to develop African languages since 1994. Instead the Dept of Arts and Culture is focusing on things like name changes rather than to build and take us forward. We have renowned linguistics lecturing at university, why haven't we formed a committee so that there is a deliberate effort to enrich our languages to a point where one can hold a technical discussion in African languages?
Until we this is done the debate on mother tongue learning is premature and would remain intellectual.
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Droooooza
test..Report Abuse
JajasQueen
DzelJJQ,
One of government's biggest failures is that there has not been any effort to develop African languages since 1994. Instead the Dept of Arts and Culture is focusing on things like name changes rather than to build and take us forward. We have renowned linguistics lecturing at university, why haven't we formed a committee so that there is a deliberate effort to enrich our languages to a point where one can hold a technical discussion in African languages?
Until we this is done the debate on mother tongue learning is premature and would remain intellectual.
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SAns themselves do not want their own languages. Have you ever heard those stupid parents justify their children not speaking an african language? The silliest excuses are used by our own communities to descriminate against our languages. I am actually impressed by the majority of the bloggers here who can even write our languages, I take my hat off to them.
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JajasQueen
mambaaai@JJQ
one thing we have here is we still this mentality where we view ourselves as victims all the time, in many levels in society....and use these as a weak excuses one way or another.......is not good
sure being instructed in English was not easy for us at the time....but look what a tool it is...and maybe it was a blessing in fact
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Yeah that's quite common and encouraged in this society. Thankfully you and I can lead the way.
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Droooooza
JajasQueenI agree with you waitse...
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Dzel
JJQ,SAns themselves do not want their own languages. Have you ever heard those stupid parents justify their children not speaking an african language?
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My point exactly. We need to be deliberate how we introduce kids to different languages. I made it a point to teach my son isiZulu first and now his English is improving daily thanks to i-creche and what he picks up watching cartoons. There one thing I will never allow to happen is for English to be used as a primary medium of communication in my house.
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joyful
Minister of Basic Education Angie Motshekga's spokesman Panyaza Lesufi said it was harder to pass matric now than it was during apartheid**************
with a pass mark of 33% ???????
ha! Panyaza stop having jonny walker for breakfast, lunch, dinner and in between drinks! your mind is boggled up and is operating at matric pass rate - 33%
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JajasQueen
DzelJJQ,
SAns themselves do not want their own languages. Have you ever heard those stupid parents justify their children not speaking an african language?
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My point exactly. We need to be deliberate how we introduce kids to different languages. I made it a point to teach my son isiZulu first and now his English is improving daily thanks to i-creche and what he picks up watching cartoons. There one thing I will never allow to happen is for English to be used as a primary medium of communication in my house.
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Good for you...none of my kids use English in the house. Kids pick language up from the streets, parents do not have to spend a fortune teaching them English. Spend the money on internet access instead, they learn so much from there. Yeah they do watch porn as well, but that's were we parents come in to explain it so they can understand what it is.
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Dzel
On a side note.I see Google is wrecking havoc in the mobile business though its Android OS. Blackberry is suer to go down or be sold off and now there is turmoil in the Nokia stable with Lumnia failing to compete against the Galaxy range.
Word of advice, if you want a new phone or a tablet go for Android preferable the Galaxy range. I could never understand the fascination with Blackberry.
Sorry guys, I just had to say this.
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Dzel
Good for you...none of my kids use English in the house. Kids pick language up from the streets, parents do not have to spend a fortune teaching them English. Spend the money on internet access instead+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Exactly, parents need to learn to invest in their kids. My phone is full of educational apps and I know someone will be demanding to play games but I know the educational value.
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