This is so interesting. I recently saw a documentary on punk music in Africa and it was fascinating. Report Abuse
Oct 2, 2012
MommaC
Why do young people always think they are inventing something new? We had the same questions and fears. Hells bells, when do you think punk rock originated? Report Abuse
MommaC: I don't think it goes about when"punk rock" originated. The way I see it, "punk", as an attitude, developed in different ways and at different paces in various parts of the world. Billy Idol and Iggy Pop were around long before the British Sex Pistols and The Clash and so on. Because of the "cultural boycott", SA "punk" with bands like the Radio Rats, Safari Suits, Housewives Choice and Zeesen Radio came quite a bit later. So chronology is not the way to look T this. I prefer to see it as a "f u c k y o u" attitude w.r.t. accepted standards and mores, and is not bound by period, place or genre. Viva the middle finger!!! Report Abuse
@RobinH, My question is will the generation today come up with thier own culture or develop a new culture, Hiphop, Pop and Punk comes from our generation, everything the youth is doing today is a recycle of what we have done thus I understand were MommaC is coming from. This young generation is lacking innovation and have been recycling what's been around for a while now, one day when I have a child I don't want them to dress and act like I did when I was a teen, today I play hiphop, kwaito, house and guess what the kid next door plays the same music as I do, what is a 14 year old doing listing to a 30 year old man( Lil Wayne) and dressed like him also... Report Abuse
Oct 2, 2012
RobinH
Tabza: what I'm saying is that these are mere lables arbitrarily attached. According to me view, the punk attitude leads to innovation on a variety of fronts, whether one chooses to label it as HipHop, or whatever. If you listen to guys like John Zorn, he covers the entire pallette, from Yiddish kletzmer based stuff, through hardcore metal, through so-called avant-garde. He is influenced by everything he encounters, but he doesn't follow the model, rather actually pushing the boundaries of whatever format he is using. That is what I am talking about. Report Abuse
Oct 2, 2012
MommaC
RobinH
The 'up yours' attitude is even older than that. Think Morrison.
My point is that the youth have been rebelling against the system for ever. This isn't some 'new' occurrence and their search for meaning and identity are no different to what young people have been going through for all eternity. Report Abuse
Oct 2, 2012
Tabza325is
@RobinH, This is why I wonder if the current youth lacks innovation or do they have it, by reclycling and going through the same phase we went through, listen to how they express thier culture through music, they are doing the same thing a 30 year old is doing meaning they are immulating and not innovating, Immagine if John Zorn had immulated his parents and played classic music or Jazz, I grew up playing a lot of video games and Zorn's game theory sound were employed in game programming, I studied a bid of game theory and programming which I've used some of his sounds, he was an innovative instrumantalist. Report Abuse
Oct 2, 2012
RobinH
MommaC and Tabza: I think we actually agree here. Thanks for the interesting discussion. MommaC. And don't forget The Kinks either. Report Abuse
Oct 2, 2012
Moffdat
@RobinH
JRRRRRRRRRRRRR! YOU ARE ANCIENT VIAGRA! LOL
I mean viagra in a good way! lol ha ha Report Abuse
Oct 2, 2012
RobinH
Moff,well with age came a spot of common sense, decency and a wealth of interesting experience. Envy me, Boetie. Report Abuse
Oct 2, 2012
WarrenG
@Tabza
We created Rave in the 90's, kwaito was new not too long ago...
Now we also have Dub-step, this is just a couple years old.
And who's this Korean dude with this 300 million hits on Youtube with some new trendy music?
It's out there waiting to be unleashed...
We also listened to old music... Report Abuse
Oct 2, 2012
Tabza325is
@WarrenG, Kwaito was developed from the early 90s which came from the mid 80s bubble gum, if you say we do you mean the generation between 29 to 40 something since that's the generation that can lay claim to kwaito culture which is my generation, even rave music was formed around 1987 through acid house by DJ Tauseef in Germany, the born free have no claim to those cultures, after the born free what culture or genre of music did they develop accept to recycle what we have already gone through, today you get teens dancing to house music which was form by the youth of 1980 in Chicago, now what is a 14 to a 23 year old doing dancing to the same music as Ma'groet-man in a clubs. Report Abuse
Oct 2, 2012
RobinH
Tabza: New permutations of old ideas, in my opinion, also constitute progress, so I'm afraid that I stand behind Warren G here. Almost all so-called "new forms" are really derivations of existing things, and it is in how one constantly re-energises art through change that progress happens. I too am old school in some respects, in that I am great Miles Davis, Monk and Mingus fan, but at the same time I listen to a lot of Bach, Brahms and also John Cage. Then I have a distinct liking for heavier rock such as Zeppelin, and the harder core outfits like Pere Ubu, while I simply love Iggy. It is in the richness of the musical tapestry I weave in my head that I see music progressing - drawing from everything one experiences and using that for something new. Report Abuse
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Comments
RobinH
This is so interesting. I recently saw a documentary on punk music in Africa and it was fascinating.Report Abuse
MommaC
Why do young people always think they are inventing something new? We had the same questions and fears. Hells bells, when do you think punk rock originated?Report Abuse
Mokwepa
kemang o?Report Abuse
RobinH
MommaC: I don't think it goes about when"punk rock" originated. The way I see it, "punk", as an attitude, developed in different ways and at different paces in various parts of the world. Billy Idol and Iggy Pop were around long before the British Sex Pistols and The Clash and so on. Because of the "cultural boycott", SA "punk" with bands like the Radio Rats, Safari Suits, Housewives Choice and Zeesen Radio came quite a bit later. So chronology is not the way to look T this. I prefer to see it as a "f u c k y o u" attitude w.r.t. accepted standards and mores, and is not bound by period, place or genre. Viva the middle finger!!!Report Abuse
WarrenG
Kwaito Punk JazzReport Abuse
RobinH
WarrenG: Wonderful concept.Report Abuse
Tabza325is
@RobinH, My question is will the generation today come up with thier own culture or develop a new culture, Hiphop, Pop and Punk comes from our generation, everything the youth is doing today is a recycle of what we have done thus I understand were MommaC is coming from. This young generation is lacking innovation and have been recycling what's been around for a while now, one day when I have a child I don't want them to dress and act like I did when I was a teen, today I play hiphop, kwaito, house and guess what the kid next door plays the same music as I do, what is a 14 year old doing listing to a 30 year old man( Lil Wayne) and dressed like him also...Report Abuse
RobinH
Tabza: what I'm saying is that these are mere lables arbitrarily attached. According to me view, the punk attitude leads to innovation on a variety of fronts, whether one chooses to label it as HipHop, or whatever. If you listen to guys like John Zorn, he covers the entire pallette, from Yiddish kletzmer based stuff, through hardcore metal, through so-called avant-garde. He is influenced by everything he encounters, but he doesn't follow the model, rather actually pushing the boundaries of whatever format he is using. That is what I am talking about.Report Abuse
MommaC
RobinHThe 'up yours' attitude is even older than that. Think Morrison.
My point is that the youth have been rebelling against the system for ever. This isn't some 'new' occurrence and their search for meaning and identity are no different to what young people have been going through for all eternity.
Report Abuse
Tabza325is
@RobinH, This is why I wonder if the current youth lacks innovation or do they have it, by reclycling and going through the same phase we went through, listen to how they express thier culture through music, they are doing the same thing a 30 year old is doing meaning they are immulating and not innovating, Immagine if John Zorn had immulated his parents and played classic music or Jazz, I grew up playing a lot of video games and Zorn's game theory sound were employed in game programming, I studied a bid of game theory and programming which I've used some of his sounds, he was an innovative instrumantalist.Report Abuse
RobinH
MommaC and Tabza: I think we actually agree here. Thanks for the interesting discussion. MommaC. And don't forget The Kinks either.Report Abuse
Moffdat
@RobinHJRRRRRRRRRRRRR! YOU ARE ANCIENT VIAGRA! LOL
I mean viagra in a good way! lol ha ha
Report Abuse
RobinH
Moff,well with age came a spot of common sense, decency and a wealth of interesting experience. Envy me, Boetie.Report Abuse
WarrenG
@TabzaWe created Rave in the 90's, kwaito was new not too long ago...
Now we also have Dub-step, this is just a couple years old.
And who's this Korean dude with this 300 million hits on Youtube with some new trendy music?
It's out there waiting to be unleashed...
We also listened to old music...
Report Abuse
Tabza325is
@WarrenG, Kwaito was developed from the early 90s which came from the mid 80s bubble gum, if you say we do you mean the generation between 29 to 40 something since that's the generation that can lay claim to kwaito culture which is my generation, even rave music was formed around 1987 through acid house by DJ Tauseef in Germany, the born free have no claim to those cultures, after the born free what culture or genre of music did they develop accept to recycle what we have already gone through, today you get teens dancing to house music which was form by the youth of 1980 in Chicago, now what is a 14 to a 23 year old doing dancing to the same music as Ma'groet-man in a clubs.Report Abuse
RobinH
Tabza: New permutations of old ideas, in my opinion, also constitute progress, so I'm afraid that I stand behind Warren G here. Almost all so-called "new forms" are really derivations of existing things, and it is in how one constantly re-energises art through change that progress happens. I too am old school in some respects, in that I am great Miles Davis, Monk and Mingus fan, but at the same time I listen to a lot of Bach, Brahms and also John Cage. Then I have a distinct liking for heavier rock such as Zeppelin, and the harder core outfits like Pere Ubu, while I simply love Iggy. It is in the richness of the musical tapestry I weave in my head that I see music progressing - drawing from everything one experiences and using that for something new.Report Abuse
NeoBaBe
Say what!Report Abuse
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