WERE South Africa the normal country that our Constitution envisages - where the right to life is paramount - a calamity of the proportions of Marikana would have led to drastic measures being taken by the government.
This is a terrible, man-made tragedy. What is wrong with South Africans that we do this to one another?! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
somaartakeit
There is no need to complain, Africans vote for African gov who does nothing to better/value their lives, so life goes on basically!!!
And also, why were the marchers armed to teeth as they embark on the protest? Were police expected to wrap them up in the cotton wool as they destroy property and possibly more lives? yesterday blood bath could have been worse had the police no stood their ground against violent protestors who were brandishing machetes, I could also venture further and say, those ppl cheapened their own lives by not upholding laws of the country as they embark in the violent protest, the union bosses must held accountable for everything that has transpired, people have a right to protested as enshrined in the constitution, but they must always do so within the constraints of the laws of the country, now you will all agree that its illegal to threaten police with machetes in the process of airing your grievance? Those miners rights do not supersede rights of other civilians who did not participate in the protest and those of police, we'd have been counting more bodies had the police not prevailed on those violent marchers, I was so sad and angry that those ppl would reduce our liberties to a bloodbath and total disregard of rule law.
My standpoint on this is that the police must always prevail over would be violent and criminal behaviour. after-all we pay them to uphold and enforce laws of the country.
Really, people's lives are very cheap, i still say something should have been done than people being shot like flies. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
somaartakeit
@Tobby, what would you have done when confronted by a machete brandishing violent protester if you were a police? if the police showed signs of being weak, those ppl would have caused more damage, besides I don't understand what bruhaha is about, those ppl before embarking on the strike said they were prepared to die, so the police believed them, I believed them, really guys we must support our police when they are trying sometimes so hard to enforce rule of law, and to quell the violence the union bosses should have prevented this blood-bath, instead they played power games with live of their members, now if you are a union member please take note, your union masters don't give a fig about your safety and welfare they only care to play power games and many cases lose you a job, there's a right and wrong way to resolve grievances, the intentions of those marches was to cause blood bath unfortunately for them the rule of law reigned supreme, Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
somaartakeit
bottom line those marchers challenged the police they got response accordingly, so what's the problem really? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
somaartakeit
I know I was against police in the Tatane situation, but his case was different he was unarmed and was hardly a threat to the police who callously murdered him, for that death police are fully responsible and the rule of law must reign on those responsible for his death. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
The big problem is us. My brother has a saying 'if at first you don't succeed, try brute force and ignorance' - of course he is normally talking about inanimate objects (he is an engineer) - but it could very well be the country motto at the moment.
We don't like the DA so "lets make the province ungovernable'
We don't want extra lessons so 'lets burn down the school'
We don't like the councillor that we voted for so 'lets stone a bus'
Nothing PRODUCTIVE comes of any of this it is based purely on DESTRUCTION Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
HisnameisAstro!!!
Let me add my 2 cents worth here, @somaartakeit I agree with you 100%. I was fortunate to be watching the news yesterday and the marchers that were shot were actually charging at the police before they were shot. I feel no sympathy for them as they have distroyed business property and harrassed those who were working. The union leaders should be held accountable (AMCO or something like that) because they encouraged this behaviour last week on publis broadcast. In the end the productivity hours that was lost cannot be recovered, the mine is not operational and some ppl will not be paid. We have to distinguish between right and wrong. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
HisnameisAstro!!!
@Momma C you are the truth, don't forget WE WILL MARCH FOR THE SPEAR and nothing else. My heart is breaking just thinkikng about this issues! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
RobinH
MommaC: VERY WELL SAID. Precise and concise!
Astro: Marching or militant behaviour is mindles and unacceptable, no matter whether for your badly flawed spear or for anyone else. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Hail
It was the most horrible sight of all our black brother lying like that but wh am I to judge! lives have been lost, the question is for what? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
januswanus
Shame. Miners were misguided. Period. Hold their leaders responsible. Where on earth you get an increase from R8000 to R12500. Just like that. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
In the 1990s there used to be armed IFP supporters and comrades armed to teeth in Katlehong&EastRand and attacking each other no amount of violence was used by the apartheid police\army. I smell a bloodbath to Manguang has started already VAvi is blaming Themba Godi & Julius Malema already calling their names on eNews 24hr-channel!!
What are the barbered wires & armoured vehicles for ? Recently Nathi Mthethwa promised stoppage of using rubber bullets in service delivery protests by police!! Guns against pangas\knives give me a break here it was daylite slaughter I hope the prophecy by CredoMutwa is not starting already to pass!!
most ppl here never been underground exposed to harsh conditions at the mine which led to all of this, where those miners spent half of their lifetime in making other ppl's @sses fat while earning peanuts!!
the floor is yours ppl, you may come up with your sh!t presumptions, i will chat to you later when i come back from the Hills!!!
FELLOW MINERS MAY YOUR SOUL RIP, THE STRUGGLE OF LIBERATION AND EQUALITY IN OUR SA MINES CONTINUES !!! VIVA THE SPIRIT OF ECONOMIC FREEDON VIVA!!!
@HisnameisAstro, I say those unruly violent protesters got what was coming to them, let bury them and move on with our lives and hopefully from this very bad situation lessons have been learn t on what not to do, in the process of protesting for one's rights. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MGEEZ
@somaartakeit
And also, why were the marchers armed to teeth as they embark on the protest? Were police expected to wrap them up in the cotton wool as they destroy property and possibly more lives? yesterday blood bath could have been worse had the police no stood their ground against violent protestors who were brandishing machetes, I could also venture further and say, those ppl cheapened their own lives by not upholding laws of the country as they embark in the violent protest, the union bosses must held accountable for everything that has transpired, people have a right to protested as enshrined in the constitution, but they must always do so within the constraints of the laws of the country, now you will all agree that its illegal to threaten police with machetes in the process of airing your grievance? Those miners rights do not supersede rights of other civilians who did not participate in the protest and those of police, we'd have been counting more bodies had the police not prevailed on those violent marchers, I was so sad and angry that those ppl would reduce our liberties to a bloodbath and total disregard of rule law.
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Thank you, you are spot on and your comment above demonstrates that you have analyzed the situation properly and did not cloud it with any emotions or political rhetoric!!! Contrary to Sowetan who apparently do not know what objective reporting is all about!!!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
somaartakeit
@JnrJack, bottom line, when one applies for a job as a miner,chances are you are not going to do the mining in teh sky but underground in the conditions described in your post, so please don't make it out as if its a surprise that they were had to be underground and doing what they are being paid for and doing what was agreed upon in their contracts, what those ppl had no right to do is to threaten lives of our law enforcers, the police must always prevail, we can not sacrifice police lives for union expedience, lets just bury those ppl, and this over and done with, and whilst at it give medals to the police to stopping destroying the vermin that is undermining our liberties, Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MGEEZ
@somaartakeit
bottom line those marchers challenged the police they got response accordingly, so what's the problem really?
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Precisely; the problem in this country is the lack of understanding of the constitution which is our supreme law; hence you find even Sowetan reporting in this populist fashion!!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Kone
In the absence of leadership is chaos!!!..................Where is the president of the republic?.........................During the xenophobic attack president Mbeki stoodup and tell the people of Alex to stop attacking foreign nationals........... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MGEEZ
@januswanus
Shame. Miners were misguided. Period. Hold their leaders responsible. Where on earth you get an increase from R8000 to R12500. Just like that.
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Indeed they were and are still misguided if your assertion above is correct. The question is who misguided them (I bet it's the stupid unions)!!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Stumaeza
It's a pity becasuse always a black person is a victim - was it really worth it for the police to fight back instead of retrieving Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Kone
Where is the president of the republic?..
Mozambique. He got Mac to tell us that he was 'saddened and shocked'.
Maybe if the silly sod was ever in the country he would know that this has been brewing for weeks Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Theotherguy
Yesterday events reminded me of this quote by Alva Myrdal "The age in which we live can only be characterized as one of barbarism. Our civilization is in the process not only of being militarized, but also being brutalized. Of course the era in which he lived is totally different to ours but I cannot help and agree that the more things change the more they stay the same. Really are we suppose to be witnessing such barbarity in this age people wielding assortment of weapons in the name of labour fairness and equality. One thing for sure 36 people who lost their lives were prepared to die as martys and martys they are not just ignorant hooligans trapped in 13th century thinking.
@MGeez our biggest challenge is populism and political correctness, if ppl can try to be honest and be upfront even when their views wld result in them being unpopular, already, everyone would know that majority of the ppl in this country do not condone lawlessness, we had fought and sacrificed so much for our liberties (constitution) how can the unions now think they alone can dabble with these? I mean really, I am shocked that Vavi and them has not come out to condemn their violent members, whose violent actions will result in SA losing more investments, as things stands that mine was relating loses incurred since violent action started, they also said as a result, they are struggling financially to stay afloat, now I estimate that more ppl are going to be retrenched from that mine, is that really necessary for the union to cause so much havoc? Can SA afford anymore job loses? why can't ppl think rationally and logically and for once do the right thing and be willing to make sacrifices, its not as if we have luxury of investors pouring into our countries in droves, in fact we have a drought of investors due to downturn world economic crisis, hence these violent protest are the last things we need, as things stand this story was reported on int'l news with ugly violent scenes that came with it, this is really not a right image that will attract us investors. I am just saying this, cause I care very very much for our country and I believe we can do better IF only we can get our act together, SA should not be reduced into a lawless jungle, Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
BlackCurrent
Wow! What will we call this incident? The August 2012 Senseless Massacre? Business Property destruction calls for the deaths of people as if their lives can be restored to them as the "business property"?
Come on people, stop being naive... the "unreasonably cheap labour" used in mines and other hazzardous occupations is ignorant. By now, every single person in South Africa knows of this ignorance...everyday we "tolerate" the brute & ignorant actions carried by "ignorant" taxi drivers on the road (putting so many lives at risk). I don't believe in strikes and marches, I believe in a culture of organization NOT senseless chaos, but there are generations and generations of South Africans (especially Black) who are ignorant... i.e. who will attend a "strike" or "march" carrying murderous weapons like these miners, but getting back to those who are supposed to protect and serve these very mindless miners... shooting and killing people? Really? And who is ignorant between the two? And the very fact that there are people who see nothing wrong with this picture is appalling!!!
Police are supposed to disarm and contain "dangerous people" not murder everyone in sight just for the mere fact of an individual carrying a weapon / using it!!! Gosh, people! What is wrong with you!?! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MGEEZ
@MommaC
Good Morning; but that is a problem in this country; people believe that if you do not get your way, then resorting to crime and violence is the next best thing!!!! Whilst the ruling party has condemned this publicly, they secretly approve it because it is their alliance members who commit such nefarious acts with impunity Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Mahlol'adibona
Were the police expected to make tea for these miners armed to the teeth? Remember that one if not two police officers have already been killed by the protesting miners. I say it serves them right as they were armed to the teeth and should have seen this coming. We tend to blame the police officers unnecessarily and forget that they are also human beings with families to look after. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
somaartakeit
@BlackCurrent, I would much rather a violent protestor is k!lled than allowing them to undermine rule of law cause if we do that, then we set a precedence. There is NEVER a valid reason to be violent and criminal in the process of expressing one's grievance, those ppl abused not only their rights but constitution, if common sense can not prevail then the rule of law must prevail, or would you rather we were now counting bodies of our law enforcers and prolly many more innocent by standers had this carnage allowed to continue? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
MGEEZ
Morning M
We are turning into a huge gangster country. If it isn't the Americans and whomever in the Cape, it is the unions in NWest. It is like there is open warfare and we are all degenerating into some kind of parody of Lord of the Flies. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MGEEZ
@somaartakeit
@MGeez our biggest challenge is populism and political correctness, if ppl can try to be honest and be upfront even when their views wld result in them being unpopular, already, everyone would know that majority of the ppl in this country do not condone lawlessness, we had fought and sacrificed so much for our liberties (constitution) how can the unions now think they alone can dabble with these? I mean really, I am shocked that Vavi and them has not come out to condemn their violent members, whose violent actions will result in SA losing more investments, as things stands that mine was relating loses incurred since violent action started, they also said as a result, they are struggling financially to stay afloat, now I estimate that more ppl are going to be retrenched from that mine, is that really necessary for the union to cause so much havoc? Can SA afford anymore job loses? why can't ppl think rationally and logically and for once do the right thing and be willing to make sacrifices, its not as if we have luxury of investors pouring into our countries in droves, in fact we have a drought of investors due to downturn world economic crisis, hence these violent protest are the last things we need, as things stand this story was reported on int'l news with ugly violent scenes that came with it, this is really not a right image that will attract us investors. I am just saying this, cause I care very very much for our country and I believe we can do better IF only we can get our act together, SA should not be reduced into a lawless jungle,
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Once again another very good yet thought provoking point above. My view is that the role of the unions needs to be redefined in this new dispensation and their strategies needs to be enhanced. Just having unions that are in alliance with their employer is dishonesty of significant proportions and there is very little such unions can achieve for their members!!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Senyobinyobi
Mara guys, when you apply for a job, your salary package is indicated mos!
I think this is politically motivated, Zuma a reng baf'wethu? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Makhosini0408
Good morning
Surely, this loss of lives should have been averted. When some of us criticised the unruly behavior of the marches, with marchers become unruly daily, especially showing no respect to the rule of law and respect of property.
Having said that, as a solution demilitarise the police as they are trigger happy. Who gave the order to shoot and why?
At the end, Union leaders shoulder the blame for the slaughter of the workers. How can we prove that police were fired at?
All those who think that the police should have rolled out a red carpet as they machete wielding protesters charging at them, why don't you do do us a favour, and next time a violent protest occurs, you volunteer in the place of police, that way, you can truly appreciate what the police have to deal with, with little resource and no support, police are humans too, they feel fear when threatened by a machete wielding thug and when anyone feels threatens then natural response is try preserve oneself and act to prevent and demobilise threat.
My heart goes out to the police and their families, cause it can't be easy to take a decision to pull a trigger, these images must be haunting them, but they should draw strength in the knowledge that it was either theirs or the violent protestors lives, and that in their actions yesterdays, they saved more lives and prevented more anarchy.
I hope that all the trauma they might be going through today as a result of yesterday, I hope they know it was a worthwhile effort and much appreciated their courage for preventing full-scale bloodbath in Marikane.
Today I salute you boys and girls in blue. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MGEEZ
@Mahlol'adibona
Were the police expected to make tea for these miners armed to the teeth? Remember that one if not two police officers have already been killed by the protesting miners. I say it serves them right as they were armed to the teeth and should have seen this coming. We tend to blame the police officers unnecessarily and forget that they are also human beings with families to look after.
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I agree with you and that is why I say sowetan reporting in this regard was nothing short of populism!!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
BlackCurrent
@somaartakeit, I agree that a violent person who is putting even a single person at risk should be contained if possible (but it's the "killing" part that doesn't stick well with me). I don't dispute the fact that we have laws to abide by and rules to follow, and as much as we are within our constitutional right to raise grievances - we should do so without violating the rights of others / putting other people at risk. I accept and appreciate the fact that the miners went around this all wrong, and whatever brute force that was compelling them was misguided and unrealistic, but the fact remains ... irreplaceable lives have been lost. My point is, in this senseless situation, there was bound to be some casualties but I still feel that the number of lives lost is outrageous - and the mere fact that everyone seems to justify the value of a human life by the senseless demand in salary increase of the miners, the constitution, the law, politics etc is still appalling. People have died, and we need to actually realise what that means. It is intrinsic in the duties of police officers to contain and resolve matters such as these, before they escalate into what has happened here. Everyone is accountable. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Papage
Very Cheap indeed, I hate to live in this Country, I think i will move to Zim Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Fred55
A lot of different organisations and people must take blame for this disaster.
1) Unions: don't come to strikw with guns, pangas and assegais and rocks. the days of violent strikes are long gone. You ran down the hill charging the police. Did you think you were an impi or war party or something? Please this is the 21st century, grow up and move into the new century. Union leaders must condemn violent strikes.
2) Police: why didn't you 1st use rubber bullets, bird shot, tear gas, water cannon??
3) Politicians: The ANCYL, tried to stoke anger, the ANC politicians kept quiet and I get the feeling this was part of a much bigger political battle between ANC and the union factions.
4) Business: were you paying the workers a fair wage?
5) Workers: were you being productive and doing your jobs or did why did you decide to go on a wild cat strike? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
somaartakeit
@Mgeez I think the unions role is reasonably okay but the problem comes when they start with thinking they are the law unto themselves and start to break law as they embark in their strike action, they also should be held accountable for manipulating and exploiting their members who are seemingly vulnerable (without ability to think and distinguish btwn right and wrong). Also if your counsel eg lawyer or dr has used his/her power to manipulate your condition they also are answerable to the ethics council, same should apply with the unions, who have been holding our country to ransom and in the process destroying all that we have achieved so far iro our liberties.
Also police safety can not be compromised to appease unionists whose main ambition in life is to bully employers and those who don't agree with their stance. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Lehido
They asked for it and they got it.......Life goes ON Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
lindsay
@makhosini
yeah those police should have folded arms and get slaughtered by the brutal armed mine workers and the two policemen and security guards asked for it they deserved to be k ill ed if the mine workers just shot at those robocops we will all be happy now Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
somaartakeit
@BlackCurrent ofcourse loss of life is always regrettable, but we need to take into account that all participating in the violent strike action, they knew there is potential danger and risk to their lives, so why didn't they restrain themselves or simply not participate in a violent strike action? why is it the police job to value lives of ppl who themselves don't value own lives? Everybody participating in the march, knew what was likely to transpire, they even said they were willing to die, so what's the problem now that they are being granted their wish? or would you rather we were counting dead bodies of police, whose sin would have been to try enforce rule of law? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
malemaforpresident
Heeei but those protesters seems to have been under the influence of bath salts that traditional healer must be arrested he must have given those protesters something to drink to be fearless Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MsKinkyakaKamaSutra
It is a tragedy that could have been averted/avoided. The unions signed a 2 year wage agreement (which is in effect). They should be venting their anger at the union. The police had no choice but to fight fire with fire.
Black people please let us respect ourselves and then it would be easy to respect others (and property). When will this self-destructive culture end?????????????? How can we expect to be respected if we act like savages and dont value ourselves???????
@somaartakeit, very mature and objective analysis of things. You are spot on. I support the police for defending themselves. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MsKinkyakaKamaSutra
@somaartakeit
@Tobby, what would you have done when confronted by a machete brandishing violent protester if you were a police?
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already 2 policemen have lost their live........ the hooligans are even using those guns(stolen from the deceased police).
I gues the SAPS was expected to play badminton (sp), swat away the bullets with a racket Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Madlenya
Typical vengeance @ its worst nonchallant massacre. These people's right to life and economical grievances of better life from their own natural resources could just abruptly end like that from the hands of their own brothers. Economical emancipation is far from this generation if ever it will be cherished. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Makhosini0408
lindsay
@makhosini
yeah those police should have folded arms and get slaughtered by the brutal armed mine workers and the two policemen and security guards asked for it they deserved to be k ill ed if the mine workers just shot at those robocops we will all be happy now
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Your reasoning is very refreshing. By the way, do you have proof of who fired first? In any confrontation, truth always become the only casualty. The mandate of police is to serve and protect and surely not to shoot to k!ll. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
somaartakeit
@Makhosini0408 I think union bosses must be arrested and be charged with attempting mutiny, when you assault office with a dangerous weapon, you are assaulting constitution, the leaders of the union should know better, the blood of the dead marchers are in their hands, the police did what had to be done, everyone must live with consequences of their actions in this matter, end of the story. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
sabza007
People lets be honest. POlice had to defend themselves. I watched video footage from E-news,SABC and Aljazeera, these people were given enough time to surrender their weapons which included firearms but they did not listen.They charged towards the police armed with everything, actually they were ambushing the police like they did when they killed two policemen on Sunday. May their soul rest in peace, but they killed themselves.
@MsKink... this is exactly it, imagine if those marching hooligans had their way and overpowered the police and gained control of the fire arms, SA would be bleeding right now, so according to me it was right that they were stopped dead on their barbaric tracks. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Socrates
@MommaC...well said... MommaC can you please email me your details to socrates2y@gmail.com, i think your witty is inspiring
So the president has twitted about his condolences to the families that have lost their loved ones. I agree with those abathi this is lack of leadership at it best......from the Union Leaders, Lonmin Management, Police Leaders.........etc. Our country is in crisis!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
HisnameisAstro!!!
A lot of you raises good points bt at the end we need to be a civiliased ppl and uphold our constitutional rights. Yes everybody has a right to strike (Which i think is another flawed clause in the constitution) but don't you think unions have too much power?. i read someone else saying the Police should have retreated, I think that is the dumbest coment i have read on this platform, if the police cannot "sqash" ppl who are threat to other law abiding citizens what is the point of them been paid?. The police should uphold the law and protect that's why i don't own a gun or a panga/machete. If I start operating a business basically i expect to make money not loose it, labelling company owners fat cats is ilogical and senseless at this point because the damage that has been done to the property has to be paid for by the company, I do not think that employees will be happy if their salaries are cut to make repairs to the damaged items. Union leaders should be held accountable and they should pay for the damages caused. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Pepisa
Its sad 4 SA. but i stil don't understand why the marchers were armed with traditional weapons, machetes and guns. these guys were out 2 fight that's why I heard in the past few days they killed 2 police officers and a security guard...Why South Africans...?? I don't blame the police to especially if they are threatened by live ammunition, they are here for public order and enforcing the law. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Socrates
And do we still think we have proper leadership in the country?Results of poor leadership at the helm of the country. without proper leadership at the helm of the country, Tom, D*ick and Harry or rather Gedleyihlekisa (mind the irony, snatching your life with a smile: and i so hate that giggle/smile of his, each time i see that i feel like puking), Madlayedwa and Mtshontshi will want to lead
@Fred55
A lot of different organisations and people must take blame for this disaster.
2) Police: why didn't you 1st use rubber bullets, bird shot, tear gas, water cannon??
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Good morning
SAPS did try other measures (teargas, water cannons) but unfortunately that did not work hence they had to use brutal force. They had to fight fire with fire...........
Im againt SAPS brutality but this time I applaud them...........
@RobinH! How can ppl march for the spear and not march for serious ills in our society. e.g texbook saga in Limps, Gang rape of mentally challenged and elderly ppl? Corruption etc? WHY WHY WHY WHY? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Pula
@somaartakeit, You are spot on, I repeat.
We need to obey the laws of the land. The police are mandated to bring peace in the country and we just need to respect their instructions. You endanger their lives or the lives of innocent people, uzoyi khotha imbenge eyomile. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
somaartakeit
@HisnameisAstro!!!
" i read someone else saying the Police should have retreated, I think that is the dumbest coment i have read on this platform"
the police must NEVER retreat, the criminals must be put in their place every-time, in fact what this country needs is capital punishment to violent crimes especially assaulting law enforcers, more often than not the ppl who commit crimes are more than likely to be re-offenders, so why must our police exhaust their meager resources chasing after same habitual criminals?
@somaartakeit I agree, the colateral damage including the unnecessary loss of lives rest on the so called union leaders' shoulders. They should be sued. One of the recommendation of the Andries Tatana murder was that the South African Police Army Services (SAPAS) should be retrained in terms of crowd control. Were those recommendations implemented and if not why?
What is the SAPAS's intelligence doing? They are always reactive.
@somaartakeit
@MsKink... this is exactly it, imagine if those marching hooligans had their way and overpowered the police and gained control of the fire arms, SA would be bleeding right now, so according to me it was right that they were stopped dead on their barbaric tracks.
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GF, I share your sentiments.......... it is tragic but they brought it upon themselves.
Never imagined I would say this in a million years ............... POWER TO THE POLICE!!!
somaartakeit, no loss of life is a preference. The death of the police or mine workers or security guards or even someone who was walking past the protest minding their own business is what I am referring to - the death of people (not their professional capacity). You will also note that I believe that everyone is accountable and should take responsibility... the miners for their not-so-thought-out-strategy (the very fact that they said they were willing to die should tell you something). The police in South Africa are trigger-happy, and I still maintain that it is in a policeman's/woman's basic training to maintain and control (or contain and put an end) such occurences. Of course, the police shouldn't babysit people who seem to hold no regard for their own lives but their job is to serve and protect, not murder. The police are trained to contain violent situations to avoid such an escalation... this should have ended before this eruption. A mob is never controllable, there's always a fiery force driving the sense out of all involved and the police are human and anyone would have felt intimidated or even frozen by fear facing such a deathly crowd. BUT I still believe the police could have done something (according to their training) to disarm the rising violence in this crowd. Of course, they were protecting themselves but can you honestly tell me that all the bodies that lay on the ground were charging the police with their weapons or some of them were participating in the protest "holding a dangerous weapon"? No one deserved to die and I feel for all their families including the families of the police - because of the dangerous nature of their jobs.
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I retreat, and stick to my point about the containment of a critical situation and the value (or non-value in this case) of a human life. Everything else remains as it is, and we can hardly expect "ignorance" to suddenly grow in terms of mindfulness and be "diplomatic". Everything takes time and I mourn for the lives lost (and yes, somaartakeit, that includes the police... I'm not some police-hater) :-) Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MGEEZ
@Fred55
A lot of different organisations and people must take blame for this disaster.
1) Unions: don't come to strikw with guns, pangas and assegais and rocks. the days of violent strikes are long gone. You ran down the hill charging the police. Did you think you were an impi or war party or something? Please this is the 21st century, grow up and move into the new century. Union leaders must condemn violent strikes.
2) Police: why didn't you 1st use rubber bullets, bird shot, tear gas, water cannon??
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It is reported that amongst others; the protestors were carrying fire arms with live ammunition!!! If that is the case I beg to differ with you on the police part; surely shooting a police officer should be completely unacceptable!!! My view is that such an act should be punishable by death to demonstrate the gravity of the offense!!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
lindsay
@ Makhosini
Your reasoning is very refreshing. By the way, do you have proof of who fired first? In any confrontation, truth always become the only casualty. The mandate of police is to serve and protect and surely not to shoot to k!ll.
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and i guess you have the proof that the police shot first? why don't you also add that their mandate is also to be ki lled and never to defend themselves from any attack? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
somaartakeit
Anyway good people, have your selves a great week-end and draw strength in the knowledge that our police for once have reigned in criminal elements of our society, now anc regime, can you please issue an order to have union bosses arrested please? cause they must answer for this carnage, a carnage that will cost our country investments and jobs creation, unions seem to be working contrary to our goal as a country, anc regime please grown some balls and stand up for the citizens of this country against union hooligans, please prove your mettle have your criminal alliance partners arrested cause law must always rule supreme, if this so called democracy of ours is to be taken serious. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MoNati
I think the police did the right thing. I mean this strikers already showed that they have no value for other people's live's so why must the police value theirs. Just showing up with all that so called "traditional" weapons showed that it was not a peace full strike. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Ngiyaphapha
somaartakeit
What happened at Lonmin is a tragedy and it shouldn't have happened. There's other ways that could have been followed to resolve the situation. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
somaartakeit
@BlackCurrent so we can understand where I come from, first of all I have not accused you of being a police hater, cause i know our police especially are not perfect, and often enough I tore down on them when they have transgressed rule of law, but I also I am in favour of death penalty cause some just have to be deleted as they have no respect for rule of law or lives of others, lastly, those men who participated in that violent actions against police, well they should have seen this coming, cause it was not going to the police dying for their stupidity, what is now left for us is to learn what not to do in the process of expressing our grievances, all must live with consequences of actions and decisions they take. those men took a violent decision against police consequences of which they are now dead, why shld i feel solidarity or sympathy for a self inflicted situation?
We should not be made to feel guilty by the bleeding hearts who are irrational, and it because of the bleeding hearts that our country is the mess that it is, and police efforts to effectively deal with social misfits are thwarted, Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
HisnameisAstro!!!
@Ngiyaphapha, like which method could heve been used? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MagakalaaMmatlopo
Please people don't blame those miners, in one of my research finding concerning Aficans, i found that we have got a gene in our blood systems (distruction gene). That gene its in us and there is no way in which we part with it. Its only Education that makes it not so powerful but yes sometimes, educated African also cannot overcome it. eg Robert Mokabe. Its very simple you want School then you destoy a clinic, when they build a clinic then you want tad road then you destroy a school..etc..that is the danger of destruction gene.. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
I have been in trouble with the law many many many times.
Not once did i get in trouble for doing the right thing or even if i did something wrong i always find that if i handle the police with integrity i always get out of trouble. Magata ke bafwethu!!!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Ngiyaphapha
HisnameisAstro!!!
@Ngiyaphapha, like which method could heve been used?
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Government and Lonmin leadership engage in talks with the protesters, and not only left at the unions.... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
@MagakalaaMmatlopo
If talking rubish is your thing cowlick i suggest a toilet. Next time you talk through your ass... learn how to spell!!!
(distruction gene). Robert Mokabe tad road Aficans
It sad that a CEO and top management, together with their remunerative committe, rewards themselves with hundreds of thousands of millions yearly, yet they are not the once who are faced with the prospects of rock fall and death everyday, yet they expect someone with a family to make a living out of R4000 per month that they themself spend one day at home, not at the hotel, in the yard to entertain friends and family.
I do not justify the actions of the protestors, that was stupid least to say, they charged, armed to the teeth with pangas to the police. I mean about 3000 people armed charging towards 300 or so police, what was the police to do, i would have opened fire without a order tooo Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MoNati
We must remember that police are humans and not some super human being. They have the right to protect themselves. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Bolander
Why were the union bosses not up on that hill with these protestors - they should be held responsible for this terrible massacre, they instigated this for their own selfish power-hungry games - they dont give a sh+t about their members, to them the dead is simply "collatoral damage" - what i find very disturbing is this trend/culture in SA that when you cant get your way, you simply resort to violence - unfortunately there are too many people in this country with little education, that is easily influenced, simply believing that a traditional healer's ointment will protect you against death - wtf - in this day and age, i must reiterate - i hold the union bosses responsible for this - every life lost here, both on the side of the protesters and police, was a sad waste - life is cheap in SA, and not only an african life ... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Makhosini0408
lindsay
@ Makhosini
Your reasoning is very refreshing. By the way, do you have proof of who fired first? In any confrontation, truth always become the only casualty. The mandate of police is to serve and protect and surely not to shoot to k!ll.
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and i guess you have the proof that the police shot first? why don't you also add that their mandate is also to be ki lled and never to defend themselves from any attack?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I do not see in my post where I said, the actions of the marchers were justified and you said that the must be killed. Loss of lives in both fronts is unneccesary. Surely, if the recommendations from the Tatana murder were implemented in terms of crowd control, we will be talking a different story. Let us wait for the results of the investigations as to who fired the first shot.
We have no one to blame for this except ourselves. We have turned on each other for the sake of money in our pocket and we are willing to k ill just to make a point.
When has money been more valuable than human life?
The minute we do not get our way, we destroy and k ill the very things that we should hold valuable in our life and once the destruction is done, we point fingers of blame.
Was the blood shed necessary? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
Black leaders have big mouths only but to take an action to make things happeng is a heavy burden to lift.Constitution is just a written words which cannt not take a action,we need leaders who will stand up to make sure whatever written on our constitution is happening. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
candilious
somaartakeit
@Tobby, what would you have done when confronted by a machete brandishing violent protester if you were a police? if the police showed signs of being weak, those ppl would have caused more damage, besides I don't understand what bruhaha is about, those ppl before embarking on the strike said they were prepared to die, so the police believed them, I believed them, really guys we must support our police when they are trying sometimes so hard to enforce rule of law, and to quell the violence the union bosses should have prevented this blood-bath, instead they played power games with live of their members, now if you are a union member please take note, your union masters don't give a fig about your safety and welfare they only care to play power games and many cases lose you a job, there's a right and wrong way to resolve grievances, the intentions of those marches was to cause blood bath unfortunately for them the rule of law reigned supreme,
_________________________________________________________Agreed -
No it was not, hence I am saying for the last 3 days or so the situation at Lonmin degenerated in such a way that it required Government Leadership attention(e.g. head of state). Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
lindsay
@makhosini
Surely, this loss of lives should have been averted. When some of us criticised the unruly behavior of the marches, with marchers become unruly daily, especially showing no respect to the rule of law and respect of property.
Having said that, as a solution demilitarise the police as they are trigger happy. Who gave the order to shoot and why?
At the end, Union leaders shoulder the blame for the slaughter of the workers. How can we prove that police were fired at?
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where did i say the marchers must killed because in response to the above post i said the robocop should have been ki lled since you think they are not people and they should have waited for an order to shoot whilst the miners were shooting. tatane's situation and this one differs hugely tatane was not armed arrogant but not armed so he was no threat to anybody those marchers were armed and dangerous they ki lle d before 2 policemen and 2 security guards which meant they could ki ll again and who wanted to die and leave his/her familly to suffer apparently the police didn't . having said that the massacre was indeed unfortunate and someone should be held responsible because i think there is someone who incited the crowd to act that way
Ok so Unions are there to protect workers rights where as agencies that of the organization and then in a workshop held last year wages where set for two years where upon a year later miners demand a 300% increase for a 0 % increase in productivity. Then violence breaks out because the organization refuses absurd increases... Our lives have become nothing but numbers and yes it is cheap and expandable, so do not make it easier to snuff that life out. These unions have put more then just their members in hard situations now. Lonmin has removed themselves from the SA market. Congratulations people of previous employment by Lonmin you are now without a job. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
JnrJack
POWER TO THE POLICE SE MUUR MAN!! WHERE IS WATER CANNONS, RUBBER BULLETS, TEARGAS AND ALL SORTS OF THINGS WHERE USED TO PEACEFULLY DEPERSE THE CROWD???
THIS IS JUST A BLATANT DISREGARD OF LIFE!!!!
THEY WILL GET WHAT THEY WANT, PPL ARE GONNA INVEST ON WEAPONS!!!
JnrJack
I for one will not invest on a weapon I might just bite the proverbial bullet in the ass... its invest IN weapons and no you may not have one you sound like the type who will look down the barrel and pull the trigger. Report Abuse
@JnrJack
Go to Lonmin baba, use the water canons. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Mgaraji
How is union responsible if Vusimuzi Mathunjwa, president of the Association of Mineworkers and Construction Union, failed to persuade workers to disperse while the union entered into negotiations with the employer. Jusk asking for clarity Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
ComradeAK
This whole issue started when workers striking at the gate of Lonmin mine and the lonmin mine security guards killed three striking workers. Yesterday the striking workers said the only thing that they want is to speak to the management of the mine and the management refused to talk to them. My question is before the Police brutally killed the people did they tried to talk to the manegement to come out and address the workers as the police were aware about what stikers want. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Mgaraji
It is a turf war between the two unions. The issue of wage negotiations only came up three weeks after the violence started Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Sjekula
I wonder what Juju and the crew are saying about this, the new union started in Limpopo, then Noth West, I smell a rat, Juju was there, making jokes, people are now dead. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
EISH!
Black on Black violence as LONMIN management sits in C-suite offices. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
ComradeAK
Workers are paying the price for union leadership ( Cosatu ) that is more concern with internal politics of the ANC. We need an independent union. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
mokudubete
our constitution is very dubius,for eg,the rite to strike,but at the same time within the constrain of the law,but how on earth are u expecting from people who are frustrated to be practical about it,wheres those that are not involve in strike must also be protected,we must understand that the purpose of strike is to bring perssure so that you get wat u want,but if others are making sure that the pressure u are trying to exert is not enough this is how u will react,whoever is in your way is your enemy regardles of his rights this is unfortunately the case. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MGEEZ
Guys; the violent marchers got what they deserved period!!! You can argue until saliva runs dry in your mouth; violence by citizens against others must be brought to an end by whatever means necessary!!! To the men and women in blue; you deserve a bells for serving the nation with distinction yesterday!!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Popeye
Why Blacks are wasting their time chasing mineral resources…while white people are drinking coffee and looking our people through windows and laugh … hahahaha!!!! Pointing our people with a cup of coffee and say look at them. I’m not proudly South African…ask Madiba. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
sabza007
@JnrJack
You must be smoking something Nyaoope. Police officers are human beings before their profession. Go to www.cnn.com then go Africa then from the pictures that are there, go to picture no.7...then tell me if water cannons and tear gas would have worked. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Popeye
The one thread you want to pray the other thread you fighting black injustice here you against SA integration, Isn't in tiring to have so many personalities? Choose a side debate and stick to it. These miners make more than I do sitting in my office drinking my coffee, yes I am a student and have no family to support, but the still make more money then I do. Perspective is key. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Ngiyaphapha
Popeye
Why Blacks are wasting their time chasing mineral resources…while white people are drinking coffee and looking our people through windows and laugh … hahahaha!!!! Pointing our people with a cup of coffee and say look at them. I’m not proudly South African…ask Madiba.
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bhwahahahahahahahaha! eish mara son... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
mokudubete
you can't have a constitution that protect the rights of the victims and the perpetraitors at the same time that is a recipe for disaster,there has to be a clear distintion between the 2,line has to be drawn. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
zino
now some were killed when the mine resume its production are they(directors) going to continue paying them(innocent employees) peanuts. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
Ppl consistency plse, then riot police in 1976 did the right thing protecting the businesses neh ? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Serenade
Sowetan are you blocking me?
are you now behaving like those usel/////ess policemen Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
While @ it lets accept ChrisHani misled ppl to their death when trying to march to Bisho to overthrow Oupa Gqozo!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
@Serenade
Sowetan are you blocking me?
are you now behaving like those usel/////ess policemen
IS MARIKANA THE ANC'S SHARPVILLE... BOTH INCIDENTS IS A CLOT ON SOUTH AFRICA'S NAME. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
@22112JO
IS MARIKANA THE ANC'S SHARPVILLE... BOTH INCIDENTS IS A CLOT ON SOUTH AFRICA'S NAME.
Ja neh, Zuma's Sharpville like Strydom was the then Chief-o-Staff !! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Naked
..............bt generally men are stubborn. they dont think of the after effects. they are drived by egos..geez! I can imagine those miners saying "sozibonisa lezinja"...they are trained to mine not to play cops with real cops...now look what playing heros has made to them. stupid miners. if it were women i doubt any life would have been lost..stupid creatures except for my dad! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
The last group to fall down after more than 30s of shooting was not moving\charging they were trapped but the police mowed them down and this shows the clear intent of the police!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Naked
..........anyway violence is the order of the day in Southafrica,always has,and always will. cursed nation!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MGEEZ
@candilious
@somaartakeit
@Tobby, what would you have done when confronted by a machete brandishing violent protester if you were a police? if the police showed signs of being weak, those ppl would have caused more damage, besides I don't understand what bruhaha is about, those ppl before embarking on the strike said they were prepared to die, so the police believed them, I believed them,
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They were prepared to die!!!Lol Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Lesoba-Le-Boya
@Naked
..............bt generally men are stubborn. they dont think of the after effects. they are drived by egos..geez! I can imagine those miners saying "sozibonisa lezinja"...they are trained to mine not to play cops with real cops...now look what playing heros has made to them. stupid miners. if it were women i doubt any life would have been lost..stupid creatures except for my dad!
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Wa nnyela, ntatao wa lenyeka-thipa ke yena sethotho Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
Remember In 9160 those marchers were armed with knob-kierries probably pangas too !! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Nsizwa
But but but but but the strikes in them ghettoes are violent...will them pigs also...............? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Sipho2001
African’s lives will always be cheap as long as they behave irresponsibly. There is an attitude amongst Africans that your actions have no repercussions.
- The miners behaved irresponsibly. You Can’t demand a 300% wage increase it simply does not work. The mine would no longer be profitable and shut down. Then what? You don’t even get your R4000. If you don’t like the R4000 you can quit anytime. Secondly you can’t strike using violence.
- The unions and the union bosses behaved irresponsible. They can be blamed for this bloodshed. They incited the violence and are more guilty than the cops that pulled the trigger. I wonder if they really care about the dead?
- The current government took no leadership on this matter. There had already been scenes of violence. Where was the ANC leadership? They allowed a powder keg to build up. Our president has no backbone.
- Us as the people who voted for a weak man who we knew was corrupt. Us the people who supported a rabid hyena like Malema who stirred up some anti mining sentiment. We need to learn that it is important to vote responsibly. I think many of us supported Malema/Zuma just to p1ss of the wh1teys. How can we chuck away our votes on the undeserving?
The police getting the blame is ridiculous. All of the above put a few scared officers at the mercy of panga wielding mob. It is unfair to blame them when this situation should not have occurred in the first place.
@ComradeAK
Yesterday the striking workers said the only thing that they want is to speak to the management of the mine and the management refused to talk to them. My question is before the Police brutally killed the people did they tried to talk to the manegement to come out and address the workers as the police were aware about what strikers want.
thank u sir for raising this.
exactly my point this could have been avoided should the leaders(mgt of the mine & unions)adressed the workers.slaughtering was not the final option Report Abuse
This is the same as Aurora mine except here ppl not dying of hunger but bullets !! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
candilious
Morning doll,
Pure dumbassery. Did they really think they were going to win against automatic weapons? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
BlackSeed
Anyone who carries a murdering weapon has no value for life; whether in defense or attack. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Zulumacansi
While this is happening, those who surround the our head of state (HOS) will use avery available word in any vocabulary to justify why he is within his right to collect as many wives as possible at our expence. They will justify there is nothing untoward with him building "new yorks" in his hometown at taxpayers expence while there is poverty, underdevelopment, lack of service development and poor education infrastructure. They will argue that it is okay for the KZN monarch to have a budget xceeding R100 million and can also collect as many women as possible calling them wives. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
JnrJack
@Danielrjvvuren
JnrJack
I for one will not invest on a weapon I might just bite the proverbial bullet in the ass... its invest IN weapons and no you may not have one you sound like the type who will look down the barrel and pull the trigger.
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you are entitled to your own sick and lame opinion...am talking from experience, I was innocently being killed by SAPS back in 2008 December 26..fortunate enough I managed to run faster to the nearest police station and if it wasnt that they should have killed me... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
JnrJack
COWARDS TOOK ADVANTAGE OF POOR MINERS!!! SIS!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
JnrJack
I am sorry for the 26 Dec shoot out, just thought I'll make a little joke. Never Invest On weapons my friend thats dangerous always Invest IN Weapons is all. Glad to hear you are still breathing and not typing this from the world beyond. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
JnrJack
@Danielrjvvuren
JnrJack
I am sorry for the 26 Dec shoot out, just thought I'll make a little joke. Never Invest On weapons my friend thats dangerous always Invest IN Weapons is all. Glad to hear you are still breathing and not typing this from the world beyond.
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I have no issues with SAPS or whatever and no need to stress much on weapons...but I have an issue with the SAPS in the manner and circumstances which they handles our people...the Marikana issue, was very much tense and complicated for govt to send inexperieced and incompetent team to adress or disperse those masses...in stead they killed rather than keeping peace!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
JnrJack
how many innocent ppl where tortured on Road Blocks for nothing?? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
JnrJack
This is also true, but if you have exhausted all your options such as water canons and such what is left to do? I think SAPS should invest in that LRAD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Acoustic_Device)or something non-lethal, but in the end the shop stewards should of handled it much better than what happened here. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
McLoving
Zuma says he is shocked at the senseless killlling.I blame Zuma and Malema for all the carnage and destruction of the progress the country has made.We have moved backwards to the dark days of apartheid..When we call for Zuma to stop singing his machine song ,we knew what we meant.Look now.
Zuma is the one who is encouraging this violence by singing "bring my m@chine gun" in a political rally,then what do you expect people to carry when marching.
They put what Zuma preached into practise and they were also singing bring my m@chine gun Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
HollaBaby
eintlik what is VAVI saying about this? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
ILTAK
NAKED DNT WORRY poor policemen ARE TRAINED FOR THAT DNT STRESS I WNT LIVE WITH guilt of killling fellow human beings. GOD CHOOSE BRAVE WOMAN ND MANS TO DO THE JOB THNX 4 YOUR SUPPRT
Danielrjvvuren
JnrJack
This is also true, but if you have exhausted all your options such as water canons and such what is left to do? I think SAPS should invest in that LRAD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Acoustic_Device)or something non-lethal, but in the end the shop stewards should of handled it much better than what happened here.
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you may name all means available, but the main aim there was to keep peace by talking to people and both parties (employers and employees)could not reach an agreenment they both have to pack their backs and voetsek peacefully than all the killings which now have taken place already Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
JnrJack
@HollaBaby
eintlik what is VAVI saying about this?
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he is totally condemned the killing, ppl wasnt suppose to have resorted this matter by opening a fire against each other Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
JnrJack
There again I fully agree. Why did there have to be killings in the end? Are we not a modern society passed the day of violence to show our dominance. I get you man I understand that. But again a 300% wage increase will also cause any employer to real in horror, but yes it is a sad loss of life, let us not let it be in vain and learn from this mistake to never repeat it. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
McLoving
South Africa produces 80% of the world's platinum,yet the very same people who work so hard to bring the platinum have to suffer and also die at the hands of police brutality. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
South Africa produces 80% of the world's platinum,yet the very same people who work so hard to bring the platinum have hurt law enforces just because they did not get their way. Easy to flip around Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
JnrJack
@Danielrjvvuren
JnrJack
There again I fully agree. Why did there have to be killings in the end? Are we not a modern society passed the day of violence to show our dominance. I get you man I understand that. But again a 300% wage increase will also cause any employer to real in horror, but yes it is a sad loss of life, let us not let it be in vain and learn from this mistake to never repeat it.
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dealing with ppl of different cultural believes on daily basis is very tricky, the level of education counts a lot as well...the deseaced where somehow mislead by some educated idiot, but all I can say is thorough investigation must be conducted and all perpetrator be brought up to face the might of the law and take accountability of all these deaths!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
SVR
@BlackSeed
"Anyone who carries a murdering weapon has no value for life; whether in defense or attack."
Not true, many armies and police carry murdering weapons in the hope of never having to use them.
McLoving
I'm going to ask you a question that has been asked already...what were the police supposed to do?Retreat or flee maybe? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
I thot the shooting was revolting on TV maar the comments here trying to justify use of excessive force is nauseating to say least! So those ignorant masses who were led by Chris Hani in Bisho massacre deserved what they got from Ciskei defence force in their homeland\country? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
@KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
@HollaBaby
eintlik what is VAVI saying about this?
=========================
This's beyond his power mama,his mouth is not enough to meet employees demand.
Vavi blames TembaGodi & JMalema man !! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
JnrJack
Yeah i think all parties need to be investigated and the wrong party must be booked to justice. This can not go unpunished at all. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Poppitlove
malemaforpresident
Heeei but those protesters seems to have been under the influence of bath salts that traditional healer must be arrested he must have given those protesters something to drink to be fearless
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If they were on bath salts they would have eaten each other instead, and no Police persons would have been hurt.
Tasto
I thot the shooting was revolting on TV maar the comments here trying to justify use of excessive force is nauseating to say least! So those ignorant masses who were led by Chris Hani in Bisho massacre deserved what they got from Ciskei defence force in their homeland\country?
************************************Stop confusing issues dude. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
@Tasto
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
HollaBaby
eintlik what is VAVI saying about this?
=========================
This's beyond his power mama,his mouth is not enough to meet employees demand.
Vavi blames TembaGodi & JMalema man !!
==============================
He's insane,Malema and Godi dont under-pay Mariakana employees their employer does baba.
@Hosh6
Tasto
I thot the shooting was revolting on TV maar the comments here trying to justify use of excessive force is nauseating to say least! So those ignorant masses who were led by Chris Hani in Bisho massacre deserved what they got from Ciskei defence force in their homeland\country?
************************************Stop confusing issues dude.
It is a fact ignorant masses were to slaughter @ Bisho maar did ever think and wonder if Hani was leading the march how did he manged to escape unharmed? Just a thot !!
Those rioters trying to overthrow mangope in Mahikeng destroying property got what they deserve from a.w.b neh? Report Abuse
or Cape Town?
How much of the R4000.00 does the unions get? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
Lets hope the police would be in the mines 24-hr day others might resort to geurilla tactics now to deal with the enemy "Hit n ' run" !! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Hosh6
Tasto
The bisho incident or Mangope being overthrown or whatever...what do they have to do with police officers being attacked by armed hooligans? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
Did the police used excessive force against stone throwing Soweto youth in 1976 was it appropiate? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
@Hosh6
Tasto
The bisho incident or Mangope being overthrown or whatever...what do they have to do with police officers being attacked by armed hooligans?
Where you have ever seen\heard a non-violent overthrow of government even in mutiny there is bloodshed of some sort!! Nothing is peaceful in any revolution & overthrow !! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Sjekula
@Tasto
Let us compare apples with apples, Sharpeville was a peaceful march, people were shot at the back, fleeing the scene. Marikana, those people were at the battle field, heavily armed. Stop insulting Sharpeville, Bisho, Langa, Soweto victims, don't ever assimilate them to those killers, they had already killed people, including cops. Yesterday has nothing to do with Apartheid or Racism, but people scoring points. We have people all over the country claiming to be representing the poor, whereas they know exactly that they don't have those people's aspirations at heart but seek to use them as their ticket to the new South Africa(People who just want to buy their way out of blackness, like their fellow comrades who've already done that) Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Poppitlove
@Tasto
Where you have ever seen\heard a non-violent overthrow of government even in mutiny there is bloodshed of some sort!! Nothing is peaceful in any revolution & overthrow !!
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The communistic party in Poland was overthrown by Solidarity without blood being shed. It is possible, but I doubt that it will ever happen in Africa. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
@Sjekula – selective memeory heh? Unfortunatley ppl who went to the march in 1960-Langa some related the story that ppl were carrying sticks.1976 I was young but the word comrade used to send fear to us small children “ think their violent reputation preceded them”, in 1976 for the first time heard of word :”impimpi” unfortunaltey language used against them was not white hankerchiefs/negotiations, who can forget the 1980s with “our matches & tyres will ..”
P.S – Get it in yr thick skull every one has a democratic right to protest and march!!
black friday over 30 felow black citizen lost their lives : * sad indeed * : go tla loka bana ba thari entsho : bana ba mmala wa sibilo : ke muso wa pharao : o busa ka thobolo:
cry mi beloved country : Nkozisikelele iafrika : amantla : aluta continue Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Sjekula
@Tasto
You're just the same as those people, my skull has just gotten thicker, you're very first resort. Report Abuse
I don’t understand why everything that happens in this country always has to have a RACIST connotation. What happened yesterday has nothing to do with the past but all to do with the present. The UNIONS are using the uninformed worker as pawns and it is all about MONEY FOR THEIR OWN POCKETS Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Tasto
Comparing what happened in 1960 and what happened yesterday is a bit foolish. One would have hoped that police methods would have improved somewhat over the past 50 years. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Jaright
Guys, please allow me share some ONE paragraphs from each of my poems. and i hope they are relevent to the current please read them
THE DARKER SIDE OF LIGHT
-------------------------------------------
Light will always shine hiding the darker side
Light will always shine and no one will see the darker side
Light will always have a darker side going unnoticed
Light will always be in denial of the existence of the darker side
The darker side of light
RAINBOW VOLCANO
--------------------------------
It was too soon to pronounce it a success
It was still immature to be known as the best in the world
It intentionally mislead itself and the world
What is this Rainbow and where is it?
Is he still sleeping to wake up late or he is still confusing himself
I am afraid, the Rainbow Volcano is imminent
THE HIDDEN SHADOW OF YOU AND ME
-----------------------------------------------------------
Man has lost God’s creation by losing their shadows
Man has redefined creation by imposing themselves to nature
Man has grossly lost touch of nature because they lost their shadow
Nature has endorsed another existence in denial
Man has gone feeble as nature is desecrated
The hidden shadow of you and me
BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO VIOLATED US
----------------------------------------------------------------
Time is what nature respect and nature is time
Time is nature’s intrinsic element
Volcanoes don’t erupt anytime or any day but some time and some day
Earthquake and Tsunamis don’t strike anytime or any day but some time and some day
Time is a natural phenomenon that is conspicuous and ignored
Blessed are those who violated us
WHO IS YOUR ENEMY
-------------------------------
Is it the same person in you?
The person that talks to you alone
The person that answers you directly without opposition
The person that you make decisions with
The person that makes the final judgment
Who is your enemy?
Some people are supporting the Police Action. I support neither. What supprises most is that the was no weapon next to the dead, which means the culprits are well and alive. Most families of those 45 miners who perished do have kids that needs to further their studies & now mining is not a career direction for many. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
@MommaC
Tasto
Comparing what happened in 1960 and what happened yesterday is a bit foolish. One would have hoped that police methods would have improved somewhat over the past 50 years.
You yrself in last sentence quote 50 years, because yesterday echoes a painful past Boipatong, Bisho, mahikeng, Ongoye, 1976, Sharpville even Shellhouse bloodbath !!
Tomorrow ppl If you don’t your past can’t know your future – Zmarley !!
I believe that if a minimum wage policy is implemented by government and made to be law - for all jobs across the board, it may resolve quite a few problems. And companies and employers should get fined a bunch of money if they do not adhere to the law. The minimum wage policy should be applied across the board, farm workers, waiters, private cleaners etc. I also believe that the minimum wage should not be taxable Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
There was a study done that said a life is worth around $129 000. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
McLoving
@Hosh6
No one in their righful mind will condone such police brutality.Our police are just obsessed of shooting to killl.They have exploited the situation and use opened ammunition to murder the miners.Why didnt they use enough teargas,water canons and some intelligence..they waited for an opportunity to present itself so that they can justifying their brutal shooting of the miners.
The more the police use live ammunition is the more the people will arm theselves ,,resulting in an escalation of viloence in the country. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
Nationalisation of the mines might be the answer in this industry really!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
At least now I can see some sensitivity in bloggs , even in the video one can hear another policeman saying to himself “damn it” maybe he could notbelieve what he saw it was horror ppl to watch yr brother\father\son being gun down like dogs with rabbies !! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Poppitlove
@Tasto
Do you really think government is capable to run a mine when they cannot even run a country properly? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
McLoving
From other news articles and videos, the miners outflanked the cops. The cops were busy putting down razor wire and a group came around the side and rushed the cops. To be honest, by the time the cops knew what was happening, it was do or die for them. I don't really see how they could have reacted differently - other than allowing themselves to be chopped to pieces where they stood. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
@Poppitlove
@Tasto
Do you really think government is capable to run a mine when they cannot even run a country properly?
Perhaps the Unions will have one point of contact when negotiating instead of different mining houses each one doing its thing !! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
Can I digress, how warning shot(s) were fired if I remember if someone attacks you you must shoot in ai warning shot first ? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
Europe must be blamed as well,they must free our economy by letting African currencies to rate the same compare to their currencies,lastly give back mining into our gov's hands. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
lindsay
@tasto
P.S – Get it in yr thick skull every one has a democratic right to protest and march!!
..................................................................................................
yeah and the constitution further says it must be peaceful and unarmed not threatning and armed to your teeth and still believe thats a right besides every right has limitations no right is absolute. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
wa bua yanong. Die boys ba makgua ba nale masepa ha ba teng nou mara ka nako ya die dollar they are always amongst the fat cats!!!! Be ware of Mesono! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
JnrJack
McLoving
@Hosh6
No one in their righful mind will condone such police brutality.Our police are just obsessed of shooting to killl.They have exploited the situation and use opened ammunition to murder the miners.Why didnt they use enough teargas,water canons and some intelligence..they waited for an opportunity to present itself so that they can justifying their brutal shooting of the miners.
The more the police use live ammunition is the more the people will arm theselves ,,resulting in an escalation of viloence in the country.
--------------------------------------------------------------
my point exactly and hope no one will ever want a Civil war in Mzansi or anywhere in the world!!!
But if govt and employers keeps provoking and exploiting our ppl...then they are asking for a brutal retaliation which no one will stop it...we dont ever want that, therefor people must be treated fairly......not like animals.
mining industry is one of the biggest industry where govt knows that our ppl are treated like animals but they turn a blind eye on that till ppl start protesting Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
@lindsay - if we can follow yr logic, every service delivery protest will have bloodbaths -
Think abt mothers\wives\children and say to their childre Lindsay yr father\brother\son deserve to die to protect the Capitalist
Do you really think government is capable to run a mine when they cannot even run a country properly?
Perhaps the Unions will have one point of contact when negotiating instead of different mining houses each one doing its thing !!
------------------------------------------
Do you know what constitude government??
@Tasto
@JnrJack - I don't know can u fill me in plse !
-----------------------------
we can run our own mines, ask me i will tell you... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
JnrJack
Really?
Will you run the mines like Magwa Tea Plantation?
You wouldn't know where to start running a mine. Things are very seldom as simple as they look Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
@JnrJack
@Poppitlove
Public sector Unions dealt with Minister Lsisulu, so will probably mine unions if they nationalise the mines !! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
lindsay
@tasto
those service delivery protest people are unarmed and are protesting so the use of water canon and teargases with rubber bullets is enough and they don't retaliate to the cops buy firing with live ammunition they just flee. according to your logic we must all be armed and march and k ill people in our way and nothing must happen to us. this is not a banana republic people are accountable to their actions thats what the constitution is for.and again what happened is unfortunate and someone should be held accountable. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
whowantstoknow
This is such a shame... Nothing will ever justify what the police did as much as it was a vice versa... One could only imagine what the families of the deceased are going through and yet abantu bakithi they're busy pointing fingers. May their souls rest in peace... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
@lindsay - don't lie you ganna deceive even yrself!!
PS - I just remember the song by Letta Mbuli - "Play with fire" - Anyone out the with lyrics post plse, cuase I think it paints this situation ? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
Jnr Jack
Don't worry about MommaC she is as good as a prost!t@te!
MommaC
what constitutes a prostitu@@te is the immoral pursuit of profit! On that account what makes you from the ladies of the night???+
p.s. Assuming others as ignorant as you are is a mistake!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Moffdat
Still thinking with the 'little head' I see.
If you believe that profit is so 'immoral', may I assume that after your basic needs are met out of your salary cheque, you give all excess 'profits' back to the company as it would be 'immoral' to keep them? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
JnrJack
@MommaC
JnrJack
Really?
Will you run the mines like Magwa Tea Plantation?
You wouldn't know where to start running a mine. Things are very seldom as simple as they look
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nothing is made impossible for us running our own mines, unless someone makes very difficult to manage of which I know the minority group in Mzans have and still having a pain with a success of a black person. for you own info we have already started exporting some mining commodities on a small scale and slowly but surely creeping in to the world market.
if you think a black person cant make it, please stop thinking out of the box look around and see how our sick government has done for everyone...
what constitutes a prostitu@@te is the immoral pursuit of profit!
Above is what i said. You should take shame in assuming people are as stup!d as you cause that just proves how dum you really are.
p.s. The head ain't little ma. You have me confused with your man!!!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
bearpup
Hey MamaC...will you give me permission to klap this little condescending prick behind his head? Maybe it will shake his brains up a little so he can stop disrespecting you. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
bearpup
MommaC and Daniel and i have been fighting all day because they were more concerned about the company than the people who were killed. U ska kapa dilo mo moeng sani. U thla gobala Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
CDP
In the mix of all of this, consider maybe my white Afrikaans family story starting with the mines in Johannesburg 100 years ago. 100 years ago, from the white Afrikaans perspective, the country was in ruin, war ravaged and farms burnt to the ground. Many, like my great grandfather, had to move to the city to try and survive. He got a job as a miner, i.e. he actually had to do the physical part which are now mostly done black labour. The mines (as today really) were British owned and they greedily exploited desperate, displaced white workers. This came to ahead when increasingly unionised workers in the East (where my great grandfather worked) started a strike in 1913. This strike got out of control and the Johannesburg CBD was turned into a warzone, the likes of which Cosatu could only dream to achieve today. One of the ringleaders was shot at point blank range in front of the striking masses, a 13 year old boy died after being shot through the back. My great grandfather died a poor man, his son, my grandfather worked on the mines from the age of 18. When he was 40 he became a shift leader, his first promotion, and had a team of 5 black people working for him. He retired poor, but financially sound. My father got a job at the mine working in administration, and he today is comfortably in the upper middle class. Today, I work in an air conditioned office in a bank in Sandton, I have 2 post grad degrees, the first of my family to even make it to university. It is 99 years since the white Afrikaans violently striked in 1913 against London owned company’s (how little has changed Lonmin> London Mining). Today we see the same turns and roundabouts, just different cultures. The unfortunate side to this is that how many realise, that even now that they may vote, it may well take till 2094 till those Lonmin workers have descendents with degrees working in air conditioned offices. Why, cause that’s how the world works. For Dutch immigrants 200 years ago, for black people 20 years ago. Time is the only saviour for ourselves, we bleed today for our grandkids who we might never meet, we will never beat the system, now or then. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MGEEZ
@All;
I repeat; those miners were responsible for their own death. Last Sunday two security guards were found burned to death in their patrol car. Another man was found stabbed to death that night. A fourth body was found with five bullet wounds on Monday morning. Two policemen dispatched to the area were shot dead on Monday afternoon.
Now some of the professors on this blog have examined our brains and found us wanting because we support the police for doing their Job?????
It does not matter how many times you call us names or insult us; the bottom line is; when the police tell you to drop the weapon, you must understand that is not opened up for discussion. The next time you want to be armed and charge at the police you must understand that there will be consequences to your actions. To those miners and rest of south africans who are alive and remain, the police are there to protect our constitutional democracy, please think twice before you attack the men and women in blue!!!!
To the police; I am very proud of you; at least we know that this country will not turn into anarchy at your watch: I salute you!!!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
JnrJack
You see, this is the biggest problem with Cosatu thinking. They have every factory floor sweeper thinking they are able to manage something as complex as a mine. The minute you point out that it is not as easy as it sounds, they haul out the tattered and abused race card.
Running ANY business is complicated and you need to know what you are doing. Spaza shop experience doesn't cut it when it gets to something as huge as a mine. Just ask Aurora. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Moffdat
Define 'immoral'.
The fact that you only pick up stompies and completely ignore everything that was said before tends to point to an undiagnosed problem. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
bearpup
These children of today! So few of them have manners. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
Back! Seems that the fight moved here now? God people its just Human Resources that generate income yeah people keeled over and o god the injustice of the people! How dare they be killed and how dare they die... Well actually this happens on a daily basis people die, we expire this is the nature of things and it is unfortunate really it is, but in the end how is this going to affect us? Financially it is... Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Hosh6
Call the army to calm the situation Mr president Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
JnrJack
@MommaC
JnrJack
You see, this is the biggest problem with Cosatu thinking. They have every factory floor sweeper thinking they are able to manage something as complex as a mine. The minute you point out that it is not as easy as it sounds, they haul out the tattered and abused race card.
Running ANY business is complicated and you need to know what you are doing. Spaza shop experience doesn't cut it when it gets to something as huge as a mine. Just ask Aurora.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you are very much welcome and entitled to your lame and senseless perception thinking that we are unable to run big businesses and please forget gone are those days. we now have all the resources stolen from our grand, grand fathers now we have our own country back (SA will never be ruled by whites).....land claims project is very much successful, we building our people free RDP houses, social and labour grants, free education for our people....we have tarred roads, well maintained, we have electricity and running water....
may you live long so that you may our progress.....
@Danielrjvvuren
Back! Seems that the fight moved here now? God people its just Human Resources that generate income yeah people keeled over and o god the injustice of the people! How dare they be killed and how dare they die... Well actually this happens on a daily basis people die, we expire this is the nature of things and it is unfortunate really it is, but in the end how is this going to affect us? Financially it is...
.......................................
financially it is because most white ppl lived with their grand parents and grand children in mine houses ....if mines cant survive this finacial crisis, they will all have to evacuate mine house and we give them RDP's
JnrJack
we building our people free RDP houses
Yeah thats why our domestic is still waiting 12 years for her RDP house
social and labour grants, free education for our people
Social grands make us a welfare state and our "free" education is pretty much the worst thing ever as you can see it produces almost no working class students
.we have tarred roads, well maintained,
Boy what are you smoking? Tarred and well maintained? Have you been in Durban? Have you seen the state of our roads? Do you own a car that needs wheel alignment every 2nd day?
we have electricity and running water....
Yes because making the middle class people pay more for electricity is very feasible...
you're a ney sayer and i don't blame you there is a lot of negatives about RSA but the positives far outweigh them. Think back ten years to whatever monotonous town you were living in and compare to the way it is now. Truth is you don't give credit where it's due!!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
JnrJack
~~~~~~~GOOD PPL, IT IS A DARK FRIDAY AND NOW AM LOGGING OFF~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
heading back to the Hill, JZ he is on the way coming to us and cant wait to have his presidency speech prepared by another b!tch!! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Moffdat
I agree. The people at Lonmans mine are now a lot happier than they were yesterday - well they aren't complaining any more so they must be happier.
The problem is not me being a 'nay sayer' it is about me expecting my country to be the best that it can be. This senseless massacre is nowhere close to being the best. What I saw on TV and on the various videos is something that should NEVER happen here. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
MommaC
This country has been lost and won in blood. We sweat the blood through our ancestry, the poverty of our intellectuals and the ignorance of the greedy. However everytime something bad happens we disregard all the progress and point to our flaws. This has to stop... currently our country is going through the most progressive period we've ever known but everyone is a ney sayer. I cannot think of one country that has done better than us if that is not doing the best we can i don't know what is! Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
We are in the "African Renaissance" just sad it took 5 centuries to catch up to European countries. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
child4real
Its so sad that ordinary people are feeling this cold about the people who have lost their lives. All along I was wondering how do the people of this country are feeling about their citzenship in this country. This hatred that is going on white people hating black people and the other black people looking down into others who do not have much and who are being exploited by their employers,is going to devide the country more than it is ever devded.
All the people could do eventhough they wont do much to change the situation is just to sympathise with those employees. Our country still has a lot to offer in a good way that hating and descriminating one another as we are doing. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Moffdat
I can think of many countries that are doing better than us. We completely failed to take advantage of the recession they had in the EU and the USA and we have made only marginal strides towards economic equality or basic service implementation.
We can't be Polly Anna for ever. To ignore anything that is bad because there is some good is not progress and it doesn't do our country any good. Yes, fine give credit where it is due but don't lower the standards because a little bit was done. Praise the Metro cops for getting unroadworthy buses off the road but don't forget that that is THEIR JOB. We can't now give the Metro cops the year off so they can sit on their laurels and ignore the buses because they spent one day this year doing what we pay them to do. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
MommaC
No country has suffered what we have and progressed so far.
Name one... you can't cause there isn't. Every single one of my friends (young as we are) have a rags to riches story. Now i don't know you but i suggest you start seeing our country through different eyes. you sound worse than the BBC reporters Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
In the end our lives are cheap and our life expectancy is even lower. All we can do is live and let live. Moral of the story do not go to war if you are not ready for the consequences. Violence only breeds more violence. Their is a problem with the Africa,whites included, if this is how it is going to be. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Moffdat
Germany, Japan, Australia, Liberia, Brazil ..... all had more than their fair share of woes but managed to sort themselves out.
Your friends are young, upward mobile and in jobs (Yuppies, is what they were called last century). For the average person living in a rural area or a squatter camp, life isn't exactly a bed of roses. Those are the people that I 'see'. Many don't. Many just don't see them - they are the invisible people.
We have 50 million people in SA and just under 7 million tax payers on the SARS register - that tells the whole tale right there. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Danielrjvvuren
I recon it is something in the water. Some kind of 'common sense parasite' that sucks all the sense out.
Dumbassery is becoming epidemic. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Danielrjvvuren
MommaC
Daar is 'n drol in die drink water. In the end we can just look after ourselves. Guys good luck with the weekend I'm on my way to finishing some whiskey then party ho! Enjoy the weekend and be wise condomize! hahah Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Tasto
@MommaC - Your friends are young, upward mobile and in jobs (Yuppies, is what they were called last century). For the average person living in a rural area or a squatter camp, life isn't exactly a bed of roses. Those are the people that I 'see'. Many don't. Many just don't see them - they are the invisible people.
What caught my eye those ppl died in front of shacks - poor of the poor indeed yet we condemn them just like that without any thought or sensitivity to life!!
I best be off too. The bread isn't going to bake itself and the hoards need feeding. Have a good one :) Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Tasto
Someone starts shooting at me, I'm not going to ask for their bank statement before shooting back. Can't really ask the police to do otherwise either.
As desperately sad as it is, they were used as cannon fodder in the gang war between the unions. It is criminal. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
MommaC
You clearly donot understand the complexity of our past. Every era has seen bloodshed. every culture, race creed. Below you will find some of the comments your boyfriend threw at me while i was nailing him to the wall. This is the person you seek to help you when friends are few. Pitiful!!! It has only been 18 years... how long ago did the coutries you just mentioned have their respective 'tragedies'
Danielrjvvuren
I cant resist I must respond one last time humans are resources to exploit like any other and your life has no consequence to me. If I must put a bullet in your head to get ahead I will. Stop being such a gay about it and just man the fu-ck up really. Humans are expandable
Ai you know you blacks always had a short term memory problem, but don't stress yourself you won't live long enough to matter. All these gay things you say
How does it feel to know that my grandfather mowed through your ancestry with an automatic rifle at sharpville and in klerksdorp. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Moffdat
LOL
My 'boyfriend'?
I'm not sure what kind of women you have in your family but in my family we don't 'date' boys who are younger than our own sons.
Do yourself a massive favour and google 'the iron ladies of Liberia'. What they did in just 6 months is enough to take your breath away. Then look up and see what Hiroshima and Nagasaki looked like after they were nuked, A bit of research will also give you an idea of how the GDP of Brazil, India and Australia have benefited from the 'recession'. Why didn't we?
By the way, what was your response to Daniel? Or do we need mommy to fight the (very obviously juvenile) battle for you? Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
MommaC
Hey idiot how long ago were those things you just mentioned???
Liberia really really. you think liberia is better than us what pipe have you been smoking. Your kind are disgusting i suggest you move out of our country and pledge allegiance to some other. We don't want you or any of your kids. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
Moffdat
MommaC
When you talk through your @ss you really stink up the place.
u marete a poedi.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Off to see people with principals. Wish me luck for my meeting guys______________________________she you'll 2mrw
There we go again. When all else fails just resort to insults. GROW UP.
I mentioned Liberia because of the amount of progress that was made. They have miles to go before they are even close to being as well off as we are. The thing is that they made HUGE strides. That is what comes of political will and hard work.
Who died and elected you god of who lives in SA? It is also debatable if anyone in SA wants people living here who are proving to be the type of snot nosed little brat that you are portraying with your insults. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
MommaC
Oh yes, and your insult is a bit ridiculous. As a female, I don't have that particular anatomical feature - although with your level of charm, you may never have had the opportunity to find that out for yourself Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
skwamasamabele
shooting miners wont help, will just make the problem worse Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
spatch
The charge of the not-so-bright Brigade?
Whoever persuaded all those miners to charge against men armed with rifles must be a pretty good salesman.
The police on behalf of the government were impressing on the mining company, whom they want to keep sweet, just how far they will go to suppress the workers. Mining companies are brutal exploiters globally, who pollute the earth killing flora and fauna. Every life has value no matter what. Shame on anyone who regards another human being as expendable. Freedom, justice and equality to working people everywhere. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
spatch
justiceforworkingpeople
Tell that to Comrade Zimbobwe who only pays his miners R820 pm and reguarly shoots hundered of illegal STARVING miners, and not forgetting them N Korean miners who work for less than peanuts pm. Report Abuse
Aug 17, 2012
justiceforworkingpeople
In Zimbabwe, Zambia, Malawi, DRC, China, India, throughout South America......All deserve to live with dignity, proper safety levels and a wage that reflects the dangerous work that they do. As long as there are exploited workers anywhere in the world there will be efforts to drive down wages and conditions in a competition to make products cheaper but the reality is that human life is cheapened and most stuff we buy and hoard isn't necessary. Report Abuse
Aug 18, 2012
Ndele01
The last paragraph of the article caught my eye - "It also calls into question the capacity of those who run the country ".
With the exception of one or two countries, history to date has proven that African leaders do not have the capacity....whether we want to accept it or not - there is no proof of such leaders.
When leaders come in to power, they can not judge "how much is enough". They won't steal R10000 - but reather R100 million if they can. They never have enough (look at Mugabe) - and it won't change soon when looking at Africa's track record.
But the worst is when you have the choice of democracy like South Africa - and then you vote for all this corruption !
ANC cadre deployment is to blame. We get told daily about their astounding salaries even if they are not competant for the job. ANC protects it own.
Miners actually do dangerous work. They WORK for the meagre earnings and properly feel they should earn more.
The ANC promised them a better life for all. Is this the better life?
As for police their hostility and corruption is also almost daily noted in the media.
No this tragedy could have been prevented. Gov must stop making empty promises! ANC should be working for the people but it's the other way round. We work for peanuts so that ANC fatcat can deploy more cadres and live in the lap of luxury!
This is what has lead to the anger.
The poor are getting sick of being ripped off and it's a never ending cycle. Report Abuse
Aug 18, 2012
Mapungubgwe
I am surprised that South Africans are also "Africans' because this is the term you use as a ridicule on us and our contries, does it have to take a gun to teach you who you are? Stop thinking that you are better than other people,I dont blame you but blame your Apartheid masters who taught you separatism.Welcome African brothers and Sisters at least you are waking up from your dream. Report Abuse
Aug 19, 2012
S'ponono
Editor, this is a good article. The sad thing, is that we are a nation at war with ourselves, and we have a long way to go in understanding that what we have ahead of us is bigger than any one person.
We need to become one nation. One nation where we repect ourselves and each other. One nation where we can only be successful if all of us share in the success.
And it is really distressing that people like Malema are allowed to be so opportunistic, and use something so terrible and tragic to whip up peoples emotions, divide us, and drive his own political agenda. This is a time for mourning, and a time for great leadership.
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Comments
RobinH
This is a terrible, man-made tragedy. What is wrong with South Africans that we do this to one another?!Report Abuse
somaartakeit
There is no need to complain, Africans vote for African gov who does nothing to better/value their lives, so life goes on basically!!!And also, why were the marchers armed to teeth as they embark on the protest? Were police expected to wrap them up in the cotton wool as they destroy property and possibly more lives? yesterday blood bath could have been worse had the police no stood their ground against violent protestors who were brandishing machetes, I could also venture further and say, those ppl cheapened their own lives by not upholding laws of the country as they embark in the violent protest, the union bosses must held accountable for everything that has transpired, people have a right to protested as enshrined in the constitution, but they must always do so within the constraints of the laws of the country, now you will all agree that its illegal to threaten police with machetes in the process of airing your grievance? Those miners rights do not supersede rights of other civilians who did not participate in the protest and those of police, we'd have been counting more bodies had the police not prevailed on those violent marchers, I was so sad and angry that those ppl would reduce our liberties to a bloodbath and total disregard of rule law.
My standpoint on this is that the police must always prevail over would be violent and criminal behaviour. after-all we pay them to uphold and enforce laws of the country.
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Tobby
Really, people's lives are very cheap, i still say something should have been done than people being shot like flies.Report Abuse
somaartakeit
@Tobby, what would you have done when confronted by a machete brandishing violent protester if you were a police? if the police showed signs of being weak, those ppl would have caused more damage, besides I don't understand what bruhaha is about, those ppl before embarking on the strike said they were prepared to die, so the police believed them, I believed them, really guys we must support our police when they are trying sometimes so hard to enforce rule of law, and to quell the violence the union bosses should have prevented this blood-bath, instead they played power games with live of their members, now if you are a union member please take note, your union masters don't give a fig about your safety and welfare they only care to play power games and many cases lose you a job, there's a right and wrong way to resolve grievances, the intentions of those marches was to cause blood bath unfortunately for them the rule of law reigned supreme,Report Abuse
somaartakeit
bottom line those marchers challenged the police they got response accordingly, so what's the problem really?Report Abuse
somaartakeit
I know I was against police in the Tatane situation, but his case was different he was unarmed and was hardly a threat to the police who callously murdered him, for that death police are fully responsible and the rule of law must reign on those responsible for his death.Report Abuse
MommaC
The big problem is us. My brother has a saying 'if at first you don't succeed, try brute force and ignorance' - of course he is normally talking about inanimate objects (he is an engineer) - but it could very well be the country motto at the moment.We don't like the DA so "lets make the province ungovernable'
We don't want extra lessons so 'lets burn down the school'
We don't like the councillor that we voted for so 'lets stone a bus'
Nothing PRODUCTIVE comes of any of this it is based purely on DESTRUCTION
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HisnameisAstro!!!
Let me add my 2 cents worth here, @somaartakeit I agree with you 100%. I was fortunate to be watching the news yesterday and the marchers that were shot were actually charging at the police before they were shot. I feel no sympathy for them as they have distroyed business property and harrassed those who were working. The union leaders should be held accountable (AMCO or something like that) because they encouraged this behaviour last week on publis broadcast. In the end the productivity hours that was lost cannot be recovered, the mine is not operational and some ppl will not be paid. We have to distinguish between right and wrong.Report Abuse
HisnameisAstro!!!
@Momma C you are the truth, don't forget WE WILL MARCH FOR THE SPEAR and nothing else. My heart is breaking just thinkikng about this issues!Report Abuse
RobinH
MommaC: VERY WELL SAID. Precise and concise!Astro: Marching or militant behaviour is mindles and unacceptable, no matter whether for your badly flawed spear or for anyone else.
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Hail
It was the most horrible sight of all our black brother lying like that but wh am I to judge! lives have been lost, the question is for what?Report Abuse
januswanus
Shame. Miners were misguided. Period. Hold their leaders responsible. Where on earth you get an increase from R8000 to R12500. Just like that.Report Abuse
Tasto
In the 1990s there used to be armed IFP supporters and comrades armed to teeth in Katlehong&EastRand and attacking each other no amount of violence was used by the apartheid police\army. I smell a bloodbath to Manguang has started already VAvi is blaming Themba Godi & Julius Malema already calling their names on eNews 24hr-channel!!What are the barbered wires & armoured vehicles for ? Recently Nathi Mthethwa promised stoppage of using rubber bullets in service delivery protests by police!! Guns against pangas\knives give me a break here it was daylite slaughter I hope the prophecy by CredoMutwa is not starting already to pass!!
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JnrJack
most ppl here never been underground exposed to harsh conditions at the mine which led to all of this, where those miners spent half of their lifetime in making other ppl's @sses fat while earning peanuts!!the floor is yours ppl, you may come up with your sh!t presumptions, i will chat to you later when i come back from the Hills!!!
FELLOW MINERS MAY YOUR SOUL RIP, THE STRUGGLE OF LIBERATION AND EQUALITY IN OUR SA MINES CONTINUES !!! VIVA THE SPIRIT OF ECONOMIC FREEDON VIVA!!!
INJURY TO ONE IS ONE TOO MANY!!!
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somaartakeit
@HisnameisAstro, I say those unruly violent protesters got what was coming to them, let bury them and move on with our lives and hopefully from this very bad situation lessons have been learn t on what not to do, in the process of protesting for one's rights.Report Abuse
MGEEZ
@somaartakeitAnd also, why were the marchers armed to teeth as they embark on the protest? Were police expected to wrap them up in the cotton wool as they destroy property and possibly more lives? yesterday blood bath could have been worse had the police no stood their ground against violent protestors who were brandishing machetes, I could also venture further and say, those ppl cheapened their own lives by not upholding laws of the country as they embark in the violent protest, the union bosses must held accountable for everything that has transpired, people have a right to protested as enshrined in the constitution, but they must always do so within the constraints of the laws of the country, now you will all agree that its illegal to threaten police with machetes in the process of airing your grievance? Those miners rights do not supersede rights of other civilians who did not participate in the protest and those of police, we'd have been counting more bodies had the police not prevailed on those violent marchers, I was so sad and angry that those ppl would reduce our liberties to a bloodbath and total disregard of rule law.
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Thank you, you are spot on and your comment above demonstrates that you have analyzed the situation properly and did not cloud it with any emotions or political rhetoric!!! Contrary to Sowetan who apparently do not know what objective reporting is all about!!!!
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somaartakeit
@JnrJack, bottom line, when one applies for a job as a miner,chances are you are not going to do the mining in teh sky but underground in the conditions described in your post, so please don't make it out as if its a surprise that they were had to be underground and doing what they are being paid for and doing what was agreed upon in their contracts, what those ppl had no right to do is to threaten lives of our law enforcers, the police must always prevail, we can not sacrifice police lives for union expedience, lets just bury those ppl, and this over and done with, and whilst at it give medals to the police to stopping destroying the vermin that is undermining our liberties,Report Abuse
MGEEZ
@somaartakeitbottom line those marchers challenged the police they got response accordingly, so what's the problem really?
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Precisely; the problem in this country is the lack of understanding of the constitution which is our supreme law; hence you find even Sowetan reporting in this populist fashion!!!
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Kone
In the absence of leadership is chaos!!!..................Where is the president of the republic?.........................During the xenophobic attack president Mbeki stoodup and tell the people of Alex to stop attacking foreign nationals...........Report Abuse
MGEEZ
@januswanusShame. Miners were misguided. Period. Hold their leaders responsible. Where on earth you get an increase from R8000 to R12500. Just like that.
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Indeed they were and are still misguided if your assertion above is correct. The question is who misguided them (I bet it's the stupid unions)!!!
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Stumaeza
It's a pity becasuse always a black person is a victim - was it really worth it for the police to fight back instead of retrievingReport Abuse
MommaC
KoneWhere is the president of the republic?..
Mozambique. He got Mac to tell us that he was 'saddened and shocked'.
Maybe if the silly sod was ever in the country he would know that this has been brewing for weeks
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Theotherguy
Yesterday events reminded me of this quote by Alva Myrdal "The age in which we live can only be characterized as one of barbarism. Our civilization is in the process not only of being militarized, but also being brutalized. Of course the era in which he lived is totally different to ours but I cannot help and agree that the more things change the more they stay the same. Really are we suppose to be witnessing such barbarity in this age people wielding assortment of weapons in the name of labour fairness and equality. One thing for sure 36 people who lost their lives were prepared to die as martys and martys they are not just ignorant hooligans trapped in 13th century thinking.Report Abuse
somaartakeit
@MGeez our biggest challenge is populism and political correctness, if ppl can try to be honest and be upfront even when their views wld result in them being unpopular, already, everyone would know that majority of the ppl in this country do not condone lawlessness, we had fought and sacrificed so much for our liberties (constitution) how can the unions now think they alone can dabble with these? I mean really, I am shocked that Vavi and them has not come out to condemn their violent members, whose violent actions will result in SA losing more investments, as things stands that mine was relating loses incurred since violent action started, they also said as a result, they are struggling financially to stay afloat, now I estimate that more ppl are going to be retrenched from that mine, is that really necessary for the union to cause so much havoc? Can SA afford anymore job loses? why can't ppl think rationally and logically and for once do the right thing and be willing to make sacrifices, its not as if we have luxury of investors pouring into our countries in droves, in fact we have a drought of investors due to downturn world economic crisis, hence these violent protest are the last things we need, as things stand this story was reported on int'l news with ugly violent scenes that came with it, this is really not a right image that will attract us investors. I am just saying this, cause I care very very much for our country and I believe we can do better IF only we can get our act together, SA should not be reduced into a lawless jungle,Report Abuse
BlackCurrent
Wow! What will we call this incident? The August 2012 Senseless Massacre? Business Property destruction calls for the deaths of people as if their lives can be restored to them as the "business property"?Come on people, stop being naive... the "unreasonably cheap labour" used in mines and other hazzardous occupations is ignorant. By now, every single person in South Africa knows of this ignorance...everyday we "tolerate" the brute & ignorant actions carried by "ignorant" taxi drivers on the road (putting so many lives at risk). I don't believe in strikes and marches, I believe in a culture of organization NOT senseless chaos, but there are generations and generations of South Africans (especially Black) who are ignorant... i.e. who will attend a "strike" or "march" carrying murderous weapons like these miners, but getting back to those who are supposed to protect and serve these very mindless miners... shooting and killing people? Really? And who is ignorant between the two? And the very fact that there are people who see nothing wrong with this picture is appalling!!!
Police are supposed to disarm and contain "dangerous people" not murder everyone in sight just for the mere fact of an individual carrying a weapon / using it!!! Gosh, people! What is wrong with you!?!
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MGEEZ
@MommaCGood Morning; but that is a problem in this country; people believe that if you do not get your way, then resorting to crime and violence is the next best thing!!!! Whilst the ruling party has condemned this publicly, they secretly approve it because it is their alliance members who commit such nefarious acts with impunity
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Mahlol'adibona
Were the police expected to make tea for these miners armed to the teeth? Remember that one if not two police officers have already been killed by the protesting miners. I say it serves them right as they were armed to the teeth and should have seen this coming. We tend to blame the police officers unnecessarily and forget that they are also human beings with families to look after.Report Abuse
somaartakeit
@BlackCurrent, I would much rather a violent protestor is k!lled than allowing them to undermine rule of law cause if we do that, then we set a precedence. There is NEVER a valid reason to be violent and criminal in the process of expressing one's grievance, those ppl abused not only their rights but constitution, if common sense can not prevail then the rule of law must prevail, or would you rather we were now counting bodies of our law enforcers and prolly many more innocent by standers had this carnage allowed to continue?Report Abuse
MommaC
MGEEZMorning M
We are turning into a huge gangster country. If it isn't the Americans and whomever in the Cape, it is the unions in NWest. It is like there is open warfare and we are all degenerating into some kind of parody of Lord of the Flies.
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MGEEZ
@somaartakeit@MGeez our biggest challenge is populism and political correctness, if ppl can try to be honest and be upfront even when their views wld result in them being unpopular, already, everyone would know that majority of the ppl in this country do not condone lawlessness, we had fought and sacrificed so much for our liberties (constitution) how can the unions now think they alone can dabble with these? I mean really, I am shocked that Vavi and them has not come out to condemn their violent members, whose violent actions will result in SA losing more investments, as things stands that mine was relating loses incurred since violent action started, they also said as a result, they are struggling financially to stay afloat, now I estimate that more ppl are going to be retrenched from that mine, is that really necessary for the union to cause so much havoc? Can SA afford anymore job loses? why can't ppl think rationally and logically and for once do the right thing and be willing to make sacrifices, its not as if we have luxury of investors pouring into our countries in droves, in fact we have a drought of investors due to downturn world economic crisis, hence these violent protest are the last things we need, as things stand this story was reported on int'l news with ugly violent scenes that came with it, this is really not a right image that will attract us investors. I am just saying this, cause I care very very much for our country and I believe we can do better IF only we can get our act together, SA should not be reduced into a lawless jungle,
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Once again another very good yet thought provoking point above. My view is that the role of the unions needs to be redefined in this new dispensation and their strategies needs to be enhanced. Just having unions that are in alliance with their employer is dishonesty of significant proportions and there is very little such unions can achieve for their members!!!
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Senyobinyobi
Mara guys, when you apply for a job, your salary package is indicated mos!I think this is politically motivated, Zuma a reng baf'wethu?
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Makhosini0408
Good morningSurely, this loss of lives should have been averted. When some of us criticised the unruly behavior of the marches, with marchers become unruly daily, especially showing no respect to the rule of law and respect of property.
Having said that, as a solution demilitarise the police as they are trigger happy. Who gave the order to shoot and why?
At the end, Union leaders shoulder the blame for the slaughter of the workers. How can we prove that police were fired at?
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somaartakeit
All those who think that the police should have rolled out a red carpet as they machete wielding protesters charging at them, why don't you do do us a favour, and next time a violent protest occurs, you volunteer in the place of police, that way, you can truly appreciate what the police have to deal with, with little resource and no support, police are humans too, they feel fear when threatened by a machete wielding thug and when anyone feels threatens then natural response is try preserve oneself and act to prevent and demobilise threat.My heart goes out to the police and their families, cause it can't be easy to take a decision to pull a trigger, these images must be haunting them, but they should draw strength in the knowledge that it was either theirs or the violent protestors lives, and that in their actions yesterdays, they saved more lives and prevented more anarchy.
I hope that all the trauma they might be going through today as a result of yesterday, I hope they know it was a worthwhile effort and much appreciated their courage for preventing full-scale bloodbath in Marikane.
Today I salute you boys and girls in blue.
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MGEEZ
@Mahlol'adibonaWere the police expected to make tea for these miners armed to the teeth? Remember that one if not two police officers have already been killed by the protesting miners. I say it serves them right as they were armed to the teeth and should have seen this coming. We tend to blame the police officers unnecessarily and forget that they are also human beings with families to look after.
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I agree with you and that is why I say sowetan reporting in this regard was nothing short of populism!!!
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BlackCurrent
@somaartakeit, I agree that a violent person who is putting even a single person at risk should be contained if possible (but it's the "killing" part that doesn't stick well with me). I don't dispute the fact that we have laws to abide by and rules to follow, and as much as we are within our constitutional right to raise grievances - we should do so without violating the rights of others / putting other people at risk. I accept and appreciate the fact that the miners went around this all wrong, and whatever brute force that was compelling them was misguided and unrealistic, but the fact remains ... irreplaceable lives have been lost. My point is, in this senseless situation, there was bound to be some casualties but I still feel that the number of lives lost is outrageous - and the mere fact that everyone seems to justify the value of a human life by the senseless demand in salary increase of the miners, the constitution, the law, politics etc is still appalling. People have died, and we need to actually realise what that means. It is intrinsic in the duties of police officers to contain and resolve matters such as these, before they escalate into what has happened here. Everyone is accountable.Report Abuse
Papage
Very Cheap indeed, I hate to live in this Country, I think i will move to ZimReport Abuse
Fred55
A lot of different organisations and people must take blame for this disaster.1) Unions: don't come to strikw with guns, pangas and assegais and rocks. the days of violent strikes are long gone. You ran down the hill charging the police. Did you think you were an impi or war party or something? Please this is the 21st century, grow up and move into the new century. Union leaders must condemn violent strikes.
2) Police: why didn't you 1st use rubber bullets, bird shot, tear gas, water cannon??
3) Politicians: The ANCYL, tried to stoke anger, the ANC politicians kept quiet and I get the feeling this was part of a much bigger political battle between ANC and the union factions.
4) Business: were you paying the workers a fair wage?
5) Workers: were you being productive and doing your jobs or did why did you decide to go on a wild cat strike?
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somaartakeit
@Mgeez I think the unions role is reasonably okay but the problem comes when they start with thinking they are the law unto themselves and start to break law as they embark in their strike action, they also should be held accountable for manipulating and exploiting their members who are seemingly vulnerable (without ability to think and distinguish btwn right and wrong). Also if your counsel eg lawyer or dr has used his/her power to manipulate your condition they also are answerable to the ethics council, same should apply with the unions, who have been holding our country to ransom and in the process destroying all that we have achieved so far iro our liberties.Also police safety can not be compromised to appease unionists whose main ambition in life is to bully employers and those who don't agree with their stance.
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Lehido
They asked for it and they got it.......Life goes ONReport Abuse
lindsay
@makhosiniyeah those police should have folded arms and get slaughtered by the brutal armed mine workers and the two policemen and security guards asked for it they deserved to be k ill ed if the mine workers just shot at those robocops we will all be happy now
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somaartakeit
@BlackCurrent ofcourse loss of life is always regrettable, but we need to take into account that all participating in the violent strike action, they knew there is potential danger and risk to their lives, so why didn't they restrain themselves or simply not participate in a violent strike action? why is it the police job to value lives of ppl who themselves don't value own lives? Everybody participating in the march, knew what was likely to transpire, they even said they were willing to die, so what's the problem now that they are being granted their wish? or would you rather we were counting dead bodies of police, whose sin would have been to try enforce rule of law?Report Abuse
malemaforpresident
Heeei but those protesters seems to have been under the influence of bath salts that traditional healer must be arrested he must have given those protesters something to drink to be fearlessReport Abuse
MsKinkyakaKamaSutra
It is a tragedy that could have been averted/avoided. The unions signed a 2 year wage agreement (which is in effect). They should be venting their anger at the union. The police had no choice but to fight fire with fire.**************************************************************************************************************
Soshanguve TUT students are not happy will the allocation of funds and what do they do......... destroy the campus.............
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Black people please let us respect ourselves and then it would be easy to respect others (and property). When will this self-destructive culture end?????????????? How can we expect to be respected if we act like savages and dont value ourselves???????
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Pula
@somaartakeit, very mature and objective analysis of things. You are spot on. I support the police for defending themselves.Report Abuse
MsKinkyakaKamaSutra
@somaartakeit@Tobby, what would you have done when confronted by a machete brandishing violent protester if you were a police?
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already 2 policemen have lost their live........ the hooligans are even using those guns(stolen from the deceased police).
I gues the SAPS was expected to play badminton (sp), swat away the bullets with a racket
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Madlenya
Typical vengeance @ its worst nonchallant massacre. These people's right to life and economical grievances of better life from their own natural resources could just abruptly end like that from the hands of their own brothers. Economical emancipation is far from this generation if ever it will be cherished.Report Abuse
Makhosini0408
lindsay@makhosini
yeah those police should have folded arms and get slaughtered by the brutal armed mine workers and the two policemen and security guards asked for it they deserved to be k ill ed if the mine workers just shot at those robocops we will all be happy now
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Your reasoning is very refreshing. By the way, do you have proof of who fired first? In any confrontation, truth always become the only casualty. The mandate of police is to serve and protect and surely not to shoot to k!ll.
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somaartakeit
@Makhosini0408 I think union bosses must be arrested and be charged with attempting mutiny, when you assault office with a dangerous weapon, you are assaulting constitution, the leaders of the union should know better, the blood of the dead marchers are in their hands, the police did what had to be done, everyone must live with consequences of their actions in this matter, end of the story.Report Abuse
sabza007
People lets be honest. POlice had to defend themselves. I watched video footage from E-news,SABC and Aljazeera, these people were given enough time to surrender their weapons which included firearms but they did not listen.They charged towards the police armed with everything, actually they were ambushing the police like they did when they killed two policemen on Sunday. May their soul rest in peace, but they killed themselves.Report Abuse
somaartakeit
@MsKink... this is exactly it, imagine if those marching hooligans had their way and overpowered the police and gained control of the fire arms, SA would be bleeding right now, so according to me it was right that they were stopped dead on their barbaric tracks.Report Abuse
Socrates
@MommaC...well said... MommaC can you please email me your details to socrates2y@gmail.com, i think your witty is inspiringReport Abuse
Tsatsatsa
So the president has twitted about his condolences to the families that have lost their loved ones. I agree with those abathi this is lack of leadership at it best......from the Union Leaders, Lonmin Management, Police Leaders.........etc. Our country is in crisis!!Report Abuse
HisnameisAstro!!!
A lot of you raises good points bt at the end we need to be a civiliased ppl and uphold our constitutional rights. Yes everybody has a right to strike (Which i think is another flawed clause in the constitution) but don't you think unions have too much power?. i read someone else saying the Police should have retreated, I think that is the dumbest coment i have read on this platform, if the police cannot "sqash" ppl who are threat to other law abiding citizens what is the point of them been paid?. The police should uphold the law and protect that's why i don't own a gun or a panga/machete. If I start operating a business basically i expect to make money not loose it, labelling company owners fat cats is ilogical and senseless at this point because the damage that has been done to the property has to be paid for by the company, I do not think that employees will be happy if their salaries are cut to make repairs to the damaged items. Union leaders should be held accountable and they should pay for the damages caused.Report Abuse
Pepisa
Its sad 4 SA. but i stil don't understand why the marchers were armed with traditional weapons, machetes and guns. these guys were out 2 fight that's why I heard in the past few days they killed 2 police officers and a security guard...Why South Africans...?? I don't blame the police to especially if they are threatened by live ammunition, they are here for public order and enforcing the law.Report Abuse
Socrates
And do we still think we have proper leadership in the country?Results of poor leadership at the helm of the country. without proper leadership at the helm of the country, Tom, D*ick and Harry or rather Gedleyihlekisa (mind the irony, snatching your life with a smile: and i so hate that giggle/smile of his, each time i see that i feel like puking), Madlayedwa and Mtshontshi will want to leadReport Abuse
MsKinkyakaKamaSutra
@Fred55A lot of different organisations and people must take blame for this disaster.
2) Police: why didn't you 1st use rubber bullets, bird shot, tear gas, water cannon??
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Good morning
SAPS did try other measures (teargas, water cannons) but unfortunately that did not work hence they had to use brutal force. They had to fight fire with fire...........
Im againt SAPS brutality but this time I applaud them...........
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HisnameisAstro!!!
@RobinH! How can ppl march for the spear and not march for serious ills in our society. e.g texbook saga in Limps, Gang rape of mentally challenged and elderly ppl? Corruption etc? WHY WHY WHY WHY?Report Abuse
Pula
@somaartakeit, You are spot on, I repeat.We need to obey the laws of the land. The police are mandated to bring peace in the country and we just need to respect their instructions. You endanger their lives or the lives of innocent people, uzoyi khotha imbenge eyomile.
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somaartakeit
@HisnameisAstro!!!" i read someone else saying the Police should have retreated, I think that is the dumbest coment i have read on this platform"
the police must NEVER retreat, the criminals must be put in their place every-time, in fact what this country needs is capital punishment to violent crimes especially assaulting law enforcers, more often than not the ppl who commit crimes are more than likely to be re-offenders, so why must our police exhaust their meager resources chasing after same habitual criminals?
Death to the criminals, I say.
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Makhosini0408
@somaartakeit I agree, the colateral damage including the unnecessary loss of lives rest on the so called union leaders' shoulders. They should be sued. One of the recommendation of the Andries Tatana murder was that the South African Police Army Services (SAPAS) should be retrained in terms of crowd control. Were those recommendations implemented and if not why?What is the SAPAS's intelligence doing? They are always reactive.
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MsKinkyakaKamaSutra
@somaartakeit@MsKink... this is exactly it, imagine if those marching hooligans had their way and overpowered the police and gained control of the fire arms, SA would be bleeding right now, so according to me it was right that they were stopped dead on their barbaric tracks.
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GF, I share your sentiments.......... it is tragic but they brought it upon themselves.
Never imagined I would say this in a million years ............... POWER TO THE POLICE!!!
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BlackCurrent
somaartakeit, no loss of life is a preference. The death of the police or mine workers or security guards or even someone who was walking past the protest minding their own business is what I am referring to - the death of people (not their professional capacity). You will also note that I believe that everyone is accountable and should take responsibility... the miners for their not-so-thought-out-strategy (the very fact that they said they were willing to die should tell you something). The police in South Africa are trigger-happy, and I still maintain that it is in a policeman's/woman's basic training to maintain and control (or contain and put an end) such occurences. Of course, the police shouldn't babysit people who seem to hold no regard for their own lives but their job is to serve and protect, not murder. The police are trained to contain violent situations to avoid such an escalation... this should have ended before this eruption. A mob is never controllable, there's always a fiery force driving the sense out of all involved and the police are human and anyone would have felt intimidated or even frozen by fear facing such a deathly crowd. BUT I still believe the police could have done something (according to their training) to disarm the rising violence in this crowd. Of course, they were protecting themselves but can you honestly tell me that all the bodies that lay on the ground were charging the police with their weapons or some of them were participating in the protest "holding a dangerous weapon"? No one deserved to die and I feel for all their families including the families of the police - because of the dangerous nature of their jobs.____________________________________________________________________________________
I retreat, and stick to my point about the containment of a critical situation and the value (or non-value in this case) of a human life. Everything else remains as it is, and we can hardly expect "ignorance" to suddenly grow in terms of mindfulness and be "diplomatic". Everything takes time and I mourn for the lives lost (and yes, somaartakeit, that includes the police... I'm not some police-hater) :-)
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MGEEZ
@Fred55A lot of different organisations and people must take blame for this disaster.
1) Unions: don't come to strikw with guns, pangas and assegais and rocks. the days of violent strikes are long gone. You ran down the hill charging the police. Did you think you were an impi or war party or something? Please this is the 21st century, grow up and move into the new century. Union leaders must condemn violent strikes.
2) Police: why didn't you 1st use rubber bullets, bird shot, tear gas, water cannon??
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It is reported that amongst others; the protestors were carrying fire arms with live ammunition!!! If that is the case I beg to differ with you on the police part; surely shooting a police officer should be completely unacceptable!!! My view is that such an act should be punishable by death to demonstrate the gravity of the offense!!!
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lindsay
@ MakhosiniYour reasoning is very refreshing. By the way, do you have proof of who fired first? In any confrontation, truth always become the only casualty. The mandate of police is to serve and protect and surely not to shoot to k!ll.
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and i guess you have the proof that the police shot first? why don't you also add that their mandate is also to be ki lled and never to defend themselves from any attack?
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somaartakeit
Anyway good people, have your selves a great week-end and draw strength in the knowledge that our police for once have reigned in criminal elements of our society, now anc regime, can you please issue an order to have union bosses arrested please? cause they must answer for this carnage, a carnage that will cost our country investments and jobs creation, unions seem to be working contrary to our goal as a country, anc regime please grown some balls and stand up for the citizens of this country against union hooligans, please prove your mettle have your criminal alliance partners arrested cause law must always rule supreme, if this so called democracy of ours is to be taken serious.Report Abuse
MoNati
I think the police did the right thing. I mean this strikers already showed that they have no value for other people's live's so why must the police value theirs. Just showing up with all that so called "traditional" weapons showed that it was not a peace full strike.Report Abuse
Ngiyaphapha
somaartakeitWhat happened at Lonmin is a tragedy and it shouldn't have happened. There's other ways that could have been followed to resolve the situation.
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somaartakeit
@BlackCurrent so we can understand where I come from, first of all I have not accused you of being a police hater, cause i know our police especially are not perfect, and often enough I tore down on them when they have transgressed rule of law, but I also I am in favour of death penalty cause some just have to be deleted as they have no respect for rule of law or lives of others, lastly, those men who participated in that violent actions against police, well they should have seen this coming, cause it was not going to the police dying for their stupidity, what is now left for us is to learn what not to do in the process of expressing our grievances, all must live with consequences of actions and decisions they take. those men took a violent decision against police consequences of which they are now dead, why shld i feel solidarity or sympathy for a self inflicted situation?We should not be made to feel guilty by the bleeding hearts who are irrational, and it because of the bleeding hearts that our country is the mess that it is, and police efforts to effectively deal with social misfits are thwarted,
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HisnameisAstro!!!
@Ngiyaphapha, like which method could heve been used?Report Abuse
MagakalaaMmatlopo
Please people don't blame those miners, in one of my research finding concerning Aficans, i found that we have got a gene in our blood systems (distruction gene). That gene its in us and there is no way in which we part with it. Its only Education that makes it not so powerful but yes sometimes, educated African also cannot overcome it. eg Robert Mokabe. Its very simple you want School then you destoy a clinic, when they build a clinic then you want tad road then you destroy a school..etc..that is the danger of destruction gene..Report Abuse
Moffdat
I have been in trouble with the law many many many times.Not once did i get in trouble for doing the right thing or even if i did something wrong i always find that if i handle the police with integrity i always get out of trouble. Magata ke bafwethu!!!!
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Ngiyaphapha
HisnameisAstro!!!@Ngiyaphapha, like which method could heve been used?
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Government and Lonmin leadership engage in talks with the protesters, and not only left at the unions....
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Moffdat
@MagakalaaMmatlopoIf talking rubish is your thing cowlick i suggest a toilet. Next time you talk through your ass... learn how to spell!!!
(distruction gene). Robert Mokabe tad road Aficans
p.s. Ever heard of rules of syntax
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thabiso992000
It sad that a CEO and top management, together with their remunerative committe, rewards themselves with hundreds of thousands of millions yearly, yet they are not the once who are faced with the prospects of rock fall and death everyday, yet they expect someone with a family to make a living out of R4000 per month that they themself spend one day at home, not at the hotel, in the yard to entertain friends and family.I do not justify the actions of the protestors, that was stupid least to say, they charged, armed to the teeth with pangas to the police. I mean about 3000 people armed charging towards 300 or so police, what was the police to do, i would have opened fire without a order tooo
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MoNati
We must remember that police are humans and not some super human being. They have the right to protect themselves.Report Abuse
Bolander
Why were the union bosses not up on that hill with these protestors - they should be held responsible for this terrible massacre, they instigated this for their own selfish power-hungry games - they dont give a sh+t about their members, to them the dead is simply "collatoral damage" - what i find very disturbing is this trend/culture in SA that when you cant get your way, you simply resort to violence - unfortunately there are too many people in this country with little education, that is easily influenced, simply believing that a traditional healer's ointment will protect you against death - wtf - in this day and age, i must reiterate - i hold the union bosses responsible for this - every life lost here, both on the side of the protesters and police, was a sad waste - life is cheap in SA, and not only an african life ...Report Abuse
Makhosini0408
lindsay@ Makhosini
Your reasoning is very refreshing. By the way, do you have proof of who fired first? In any confrontation, truth always become the only casualty. The mandate of police is to serve and protect and surely not to shoot to k!ll.
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and i guess you have the proof that the police shot first? why don't you also add that their mandate is also to be ki lled and never to defend themselves from any attack?
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I do not see in my post where I said, the actions of the marchers were justified and you said that the must be killed. Loss of lives in both fronts is unneccesary. Surely, if the recommendations from the Tatana murder were implemented in terms of crowd control, we will be talking a different story. Let us wait for the results of the investigations as to who fired the first shot.
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Chichi7
We have no one to blame for this except ourselves. We have turned on each other for the sake of money in our pocket and we are willing to k ill just to make a point.When has money been more valuable than human life?
The minute we do not get our way, we destroy and k ill the very things that we should hold valuable in our life and once the destruction is done, we point fingers of blame.
Was the blood shed necessary?
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KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
Black leaders have big mouths only but to take an action to make things happeng is a heavy burden to lift.Constitution is just a written words which cannt not take a action,we need leaders who will stand up to make sure whatever written on our constitution is happening.Report Abuse
candilious
somaartakeit@Tobby, what would you have done when confronted by a machete brandishing violent protester if you were a police? if the police showed signs of being weak, those ppl would have caused more damage, besides I don't understand what bruhaha is about, those ppl before embarking on the strike said they were prepared to die, so the police believed them, I believed them, really guys we must support our police when they are trying sometimes so hard to enforce rule of law, and to quell the violence the union bosses should have prevented this blood-bath, instead they played power games with live of their members, now if you are a union member please take note, your union masters don't give a fig about your safety and welfare they only care to play power games and many cases lose you a job, there's a right and wrong way to resolve grievances, the intentions of those marches was to cause blood bath unfortunately for them the rule of law reigned supreme,
_________________________________________________________Agreed -
Morning All
@MommaC- Nes jy daar se.
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Ngiyaphapha
Chichi7No it was not, hence I am saying for the last 3 days or so the situation at Lonmin degenerated in such a way that it required Government Leadership attention(e.g. head of state).
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lindsay
@makhosiniSurely, this loss of lives should have been averted. When some of us criticised the unruly behavior of the marches, with marchers become unruly daily, especially showing no respect to the rule of law and respect of property.
Having said that, as a solution demilitarise the police as they are trigger happy. Who gave the order to shoot and why?
At the end, Union leaders shoulder the blame for the slaughter of the workers. How can we prove that police were fired at?
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where did i say the marchers must killed because in response to the above post i said the robocop should have been ki lled since you think they are not people and they should have waited for an order to shoot whilst the miners were shooting. tatane's situation and this one differs hugely tatane was not armed arrogant but not armed so he was no threat to anybody those marchers were armed and dangerous they ki lle d before 2 policemen and 2 security guards which meant they could ki ll again and who wanted to die and leave his/her familly to suffer apparently the police didn't . having said that the massacre was indeed unfortunate and someone should be held responsible because i think there is someone who incited the crowd to act that way
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Danielrjvvuren
Ok so Unions are there to protect workers rights where as agencies that of the organization and then in a workshop held last year wages where set for two years where upon a year later miners demand a 300% increase for a 0 % increase in productivity. Then violence breaks out because the organization refuses absurd increases... Our lives have become nothing but numbers and yes it is cheap and expandable, so do not make it easier to snuff that life out. These unions have put more then just their members in hard situations now. Lonmin has removed themselves from the SA market. Congratulations people of previous employment by Lonmin you are now without a job.Report Abuse
JnrJack
POWER TO THE POLICE SE MUUR MAN!! WHERE IS WATER CANNONS, RUBBER BULLETS, TEARGAS AND ALL SORTS OF THINGS WHERE USED TO PEACEFULLY DEPERSE THE CROWD???THIS IS JUST A BLATANT DISREGARD OF LIFE!!!!
THEY WILL GET WHAT THEY WANT, PPL ARE GONNA INVEST ON WEAPONS!!!
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Danielrjvvuren
JnrJackI for one will not invest on a weapon I might just bite the proverbial bullet in the ass... its invest IN weapons and no you may not have one you sound like the type who will look down the barrel and pull the trigger.
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Sjekula
@JnrJackTalking from the office.
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Sjekula
@JnrJackGo to Lonmin baba, use the water canons.
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Mgaraji
How is union responsible if Vusimuzi Mathunjwa, president of the Association of Mineworkers and Construction Union, failed to persuade workers to disperse while the union entered into negotiations with the employer. Jusk asking for clarityReport Abuse
ComradeAK
This whole issue started when workers striking at the gate of Lonmin mine and the lonmin mine security guards killed three striking workers. Yesterday the striking workers said the only thing that they want is to speak to the management of the mine and the management refused to talk to them. My question is before the Police brutally killed the people did they tried to talk to the manegement to come out and address the workers as the police were aware about what stikers want.Report Abuse
MommaC
MgarajiIt is a turf war between the two unions. The issue of wage negotiations only came up three weeks after the violence started
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Sjekula
I wonder what Juju and the crew are saying about this, the new union started in Limpopo, then Noth West, I smell a rat, Juju was there, making jokes, people are now dead.Report Abuse
EISH!
Black on Black violence as LONMIN management sits in C-suite offices.Report Abuse
ComradeAK
Workers are paying the price for union leadership ( Cosatu ) that is more concern with internal politics of the ANC. We need an independent union.Report Abuse
mokudubete
our constitution is very dubius,for eg,the rite to strike,but at the same time within the constrain of the law,but how on earth are u expecting from people who are frustrated to be practical about it,wheres those that are not involve in strike must also be protected,we must understand that the purpose of strike is to bring perssure so that you get wat u want,but if others are making sure that the pressure u are trying to exert is not enough this is how u will react,whoever is in your way is your enemy regardles of his rights this is unfortunately the case.Report Abuse
MGEEZ
Guys; the violent marchers got what they deserved period!!! You can argue until saliva runs dry in your mouth; violence by citizens against others must be brought to an end by whatever means necessary!!! To the men and women in blue; you deserve a bells for serving the nation with distinction yesterday!!!Report Abuse
Popeye
Why Blacks are wasting their time chasing mineral resources…while white people are drinking coffee and looking our people through windows and laugh … hahahaha!!!! Pointing our people with a cup of coffee and say look at them. I’m not proudly South African…ask Madiba.Report Abuse
sabza007
@JnrJackYou must be smoking something Nyaoope. Police officers are human beings before their profession. Go to www.cnn.com then go Africa then from the pictures that are there, go to picture no.7...then tell me if water cannons and tear gas would have worked.
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Danielrjvvuren
PopeyeThe one thread you want to pray the other thread you fighting black injustice here you against SA integration, Isn't in tiring to have so many personalities? Choose a side debate and stick to it. These miners make more than I do sitting in my office drinking my coffee, yes I am a student and have no family to support, but the still make more money then I do. Perspective is key.
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Ngiyaphapha
PopeyeWhy Blacks are wasting their time chasing mineral resources…while white people are drinking coffee and looking our people through windows and laugh … hahahaha!!!! Pointing our people with a cup of coffee and say look at them. I’m not proudly South African…ask Madiba.
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bhwahahahahahahahaha! eish mara son...
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mokudubete
you can't have a constitution that protect the rights of the victims and the perpetraitors at the same time that is a recipe for disaster,there has to be a clear distintion between the 2,line has to be drawn.Report Abuse
zino
now some were killed when the mine resume its production are they(directors) going to continue paying them(innocent employees) peanuts.Report Abuse
Tasto
Ppl consistency plse, then riot police in 1976 did the right thing protecting the businesses neh ?Report Abuse
Serenade
Sowetan are you blocking me?are you now behaving like those usel/////ess policemen
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Tasto
While @ it lets accept ChrisHani misled ppl to their death when trying to march to Bisho to overthrow Oupa Gqozo!!Report Abuse
Tasto
@SerenadeSowetan are you blocking me?
are you now behaving like those usel/////ess policemen
Me too had to tone down my post !!
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22112JO
IS MARIKANA THE ANC'S SHARPVILLE... BOTH INCIDENTS IS A CLOT ON SOUTH AFRICA'S NAME.Report Abuse
Tasto
@22112JOIS MARIKANA THE ANC'S SHARPVILLE... BOTH INCIDENTS IS A CLOT ON SOUTH AFRICA'S NAME.
Ja neh, Zuma's Sharpville like Strydom was the then Chief-o-Staff !!
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Naked
..............bt generally men are stubborn. they dont think of the after effects. they are drived by egos..geez! I can imagine those miners saying "sozibonisa lezinja"...they are trained to mine not to play cops with real cops...now look what playing heros has made to them. stupid miners. if it were women i doubt any life would have been lost..stupid creatures except for my dad!Report Abuse
Tasto
The last group to fall down after more than 30s of shooting was not moving\charging they were trapped but the police mowed them down and this shows the clear intent of the police!!Report Abuse
Naked
..........anyway violence is the order of the day in Southafrica,always has,and always will. cursed nation!!Report Abuse
MGEEZ
@candilious@somaartakeit
@Tobby, what would you have done when confronted by a machete brandishing violent protester if you were a police? if the police showed signs of being weak, those ppl would have caused more damage, besides I don't understand what bruhaha is about, those ppl before embarking on the strike said they were prepared to die, so the police believed them, I believed them,
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They were prepared to die!!!Lol
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Lesoba-Le-Boya
@Naked..............bt generally men are stubborn. they dont think of the after effects. they are drived by egos..geez! I can imagine those miners saying "sozibonisa lezinja"...they are trained to mine not to play cops with real cops...now look what playing heros has made to them. stupid miners. if it were women i doubt any life would have been lost..stupid creatures except for my dad!
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Wa nnyela, ntatao wa lenyeka-thipa ke yena sethotho
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Tasto
Remember In 9160 those marchers were armed with knob-kierries probably pangas too !!Report Abuse
Nsizwa
But but but but but the strikes in them ghettoes are violent...will them pigs also...............?Report Abuse
Sipho2001
African’s lives will always be cheap as long as they behave irresponsibly. There is an attitude amongst Africans that your actions have no repercussions.- The miners behaved irresponsibly. You Can’t demand a 300% wage increase it simply does not work. The mine would no longer be profitable and shut down. Then what? You don’t even get your R4000. If you don’t like the R4000 you can quit anytime. Secondly you can’t strike using violence.
- The unions and the union bosses behaved irresponsible. They can be blamed for this bloodshed. They incited the violence and are more guilty than the cops that pulled the trigger. I wonder if they really care about the dead?
- The current government took no leadership on this matter. There had already been scenes of violence. Where was the ANC leadership? They allowed a powder keg to build up. Our president has no backbone.
- Us as the people who voted for a weak man who we knew was corrupt. Us the people who supported a rabid hyena like Malema who stirred up some anti mining sentiment. We need to learn that it is important to vote responsibly. I think many of us supported Malema/Zuma just to p1ss of the wh1teys. How can we chuck away our votes on the undeserving?
The police getting the blame is ridiculous. All of the above put a few scared officers at the mercy of panga wielding mob. It is unfair to blame them when this situation should not have occurred in the first place.
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Naked
..............poor policemen now they will have to live with the guilt of killling fellow human beings. some jobs nehReport Abuse
Tasto
1924 Bullhoek massacre !!1946 Pondoland rebellion !!
1960 Sharpville & Langa masscres !!
Marikana ....?
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moletjie
Whatever those miners were smoking is not good for their lives,they killed two policemen,police were not going to allow that again,Report Abuse
candilious
@MGEEZ-Indeed thats what one said ............nou is hy mors dood@Danile/MommaC- Hi there
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HollaBaby
@ComradeAKYesterday the striking workers said the only thing that they want is to speak to the management of the mine and the management refused to talk to them. My question is before the Police brutally killed the people did they tried to talk to the manegement to come out and address the workers as the police were aware about what strikers want.
thank u sir for raising this.
exactly my point this could have been avoided should the leaders(mgt of the mine & unions)adressed the workers.slaughtering was not the final option
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Tmmmy
The mathef***ckers deserve to die.Report Abuse
Tasto
This is the same as Aurora mine except here ppl not dying of hunger but bullets !!Report Abuse
MommaC
candiliousMorning doll,
Pure dumbassery. Did they really think they were going to win against automatic weapons?
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BlackSeed
Anyone who carries a murdering weapon has no value for life; whether in defense or attack.Report Abuse
Zulumacansi
While this is happening, those who surround the our head of state (HOS) will use avery available word in any vocabulary to justify why he is within his right to collect as many wives as possible at our expence. They will justify there is nothing untoward with him building "new yorks" in his hometown at taxpayers expence while there is poverty, underdevelopment, lack of service development and poor education infrastructure. They will argue that it is okay for the KZN monarch to have a budget xceeding R100 million and can also collect as many women as possible calling them wives.Report Abuse
JnrJack
@DanielrjvvurenJnrJack
I for one will not invest on a weapon I might just bite the proverbial bullet in the ass... its invest IN weapons and no you may not have one you sound like the type who will look down the barrel and pull the trigger.
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you are entitled to your own sick and lame opinion...am talking from experience, I was innocently being killed by SAPS back in 2008 December 26..fortunate enough I managed to run faster to the nearest police station and if it wasnt that they should have killed me...
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JnrJack
COWARDS TOOK ADVANTAGE OF POOR MINERS!!! SIS!!Report Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
JnrJackI am sorry for the 26 Dec shoot out, just thought I'll make a little joke. Never Invest On weapons my friend thats dangerous always Invest IN Weapons is all. Glad to hear you are still breathing and not typing this from the world beyond.
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JnrJack
@DanielrjvvurenJnrJack
I am sorry for the 26 Dec shoot out, just thought I'll make a little joke. Never Invest On weapons my friend thats dangerous always Invest IN Weapons is all. Glad to hear you are still breathing and not typing this from the world beyond.
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I have no issues with SAPS or whatever and no need to stress much on weapons...but I have an issue with the SAPS in the manner and circumstances which they handles our people...the Marikana issue, was very much tense and complicated for govt to send inexperieced and incompetent team to adress or disperse those masses...in stead they killed rather than keeping peace!!
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JnrJack
how many innocent ppl where tortured on Road Blocks for nothing??Report Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
JnrJackThis is also true, but if you have exhausted all your options such as water canons and such what is left to do? I think SAPS should invest in that LRAD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Acoustic_Device)or something non-lethal, but in the end the shop stewards should of handled it much better than what happened here.
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McLoving
Zuma says he is shocked at the senseless killlling.I blame Zuma and Malema for all the carnage and destruction of the progress the country has made.We have moved backwards to the dark days of apartheid..When we call for Zuma to stop singing his machine song ,we knew what we meant.Look now.Zuma is the one who is encouraging this violence by singing "bring my m@chine gun" in a political rally,then what do you expect people to carry when marching.
They put what Zuma preached into practise and they were also singing bring my m@chine gun
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HollaBaby
eintlik what is VAVI saying about this?Report Abuse
ILTAK
NAKED DNT WORRY poor policemen ARE TRAINED FOR THAT DNT STRESS I WNT LIVE WITH guilt of killling fellow human beings. GOD CHOOSE BRAVE WOMAN ND MANS TO DO THE JOB THNX 4 YOUR SUPPRTReport Abuse
JnrJack
DanielrjvvurenJnrJack
This is also true, but if you have exhausted all your options such as water canons and such what is left to do? I think SAPS should invest in that LRAD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Acoustic_Device)or something non-lethal, but in the end the shop stewards should of handled it much better than what happened here.
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you may name all means available, but the main aim there was to keep peace by talking to people and both parties (employers and employees)could not reach an agreenment they both have to pack their backs and voetsek peacefully than all the killings which now have taken place already
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JnrJack
@HollaBabyeintlik what is VAVI saying about this?
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he is totally condemned the killing, ppl wasnt suppose to have resorted this matter by opening a fire against each other
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Danielrjvvuren
JnrJackThere again I fully agree. Why did there have to be killings in the end? Are we not a modern society passed the day of violence to show our dominance. I get you man I understand that. But again a 300% wage increase will also cause any employer to real in horror, but yes it is a sad loss of life, let us not let it be in vain and learn from this mistake to never repeat it.
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McLoving
South Africa produces 80% of the world's platinum,yet the very same people who work so hard to bring the platinum have to suffer and also die at the hands of police brutality.Report Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
South Africa produces 80% of the world's platinum,yet the very same people who work so hard to bring the platinum have hurt law enforces just because they did not get their way. Easy to flip aroundReport Abuse
JnrJack
@DanielrjvvurenJnrJack
There again I fully agree. Why did there have to be killings in the end? Are we not a modern society passed the day of violence to show our dominance. I get you man I understand that. But again a 300% wage increase will also cause any employer to real in horror, but yes it is a sad loss of life, let us not let it be in vain and learn from this mistake to never repeat it.
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dealing with ppl of different cultural believes on daily basis is very tricky, the level of education counts a lot as well...the deseaced where somehow mislead by some educated idiot, but all I can say is thorough investigation must be conducted and all perpetrator be brought up to face the might of the law and take accountability of all these deaths!!
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SVR
@BlackSeed"Anyone who carries a murdering weapon has no value for life; whether in defense or attack."
Not true, many armies and police carry murdering weapons in the hope of never having to use them.
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KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
@HollaBabyeintlik what is VAVI saying about this?
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This's beyond his power mama,his mouth is not enough to meet employees demand.
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Hosh6
McLovingI'm going to ask you a question that has been asked already...what were the police supposed to do?Retreat or flee maybe?
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Tasto
I thot the shooting was revolting on TV maar the comments here trying to justify use of excessive force is nauseating to say least! So those ignorant masses who were led by Chris Hani in Bisho massacre deserved what they got from Ciskei defence force in their homeland\country?Report Abuse
Tasto
@KatakataEmaotoAditshepe@HollaBaby
eintlik what is VAVI saying about this?
=========================
This's beyond his power mama,his mouth is not enough to meet employees demand.
Vavi blames TembaGodi & JMalema man !!
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Danielrjvvuren
JnrJackYeah i think all parties need to be investigated and the wrong party must be booked to justice. This can not go unpunished at all.
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Poppitlove
malemaforpresidentHeeei but those protesters seems to have been under the influence of bath salts that traditional healer must be arrested he must have given those protesters something to drink to be fearless
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If they were on bath salts they would have eaten each other instead, and no Police persons would have been hurt.
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Hosh6
TastoI thot the shooting was revolting on TV maar the comments here trying to justify use of excessive force is nauseating to say least! So those ignorant masses who were led by Chris Hani in Bisho massacre deserved what they got from Ciskei defence force in their homeland\country?
************************************Stop confusing issues dude.
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KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
@TastoKatakataEmaotoAditshepe
HollaBaby
eintlik what is VAVI saying about this?
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This's beyond his power mama,his mouth is not enough to meet employees demand.
Vavi blames TembaGodi & JMalema man !!
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He's insane,Malema and Godi dont under-pay Mariakana employees their employer does baba.
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Tasto
@Hosh6Tasto
I thot the shooting was revolting on TV maar the comments here trying to justify use of excessive force is nauseating to say least! So those ignorant masses who were led by Chris Hani in Bisho massacre deserved what they got from Ciskei defence force in their homeland\country?
************************************Stop confusing issues dude.
It is a fact ignorant masses were to slaughter @ Bisho maar did ever think and wonder if Hani was leading the march how did he manged to escape unharmed? Just a thot !!
Those rioters trying to overthrow mangope in Mahikeng destroying property got what they deserve from a.w.b neh?
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Comeback
SOMEBODY GIVE SOMMARTEKEIT A BELLS!!Report Abuse
Poppitlove
@Tasto1924 Bullhoek massacre !!
1946 Pondoland rebellion !!
1960 Sharpville & Langa masscres !!
Marikana ....?
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or Cape Town?
How much of the R4000.00 does the unions get?
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Tasto
Lets hope the police would be in the mines 24-hr day others might resort to geurilla tactics now to deal with the enemy "Hit n ' run" !!Report Abuse
Hosh6
TastoThe bisho incident or Mangope being overthrown or whatever...what do they have to do with police officers being attacked by armed hooligans?
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Tasto
Did the police used excessive force against stone throwing Soweto youth in 1976 was it appropiate?Report Abuse
Tasto
@Hosh6Tasto
The bisho incident or Mangope being overthrown or whatever...what do they have to do with police officers being attacked by armed hooligans?
Where you have ever seen\heard a non-violent overthrow of government even in mutiny there is bloodshed of some sort!! Nothing is peaceful in any revolution & overthrow !!
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Sjekula
@TastoLet us compare apples with apples, Sharpeville was a peaceful march, people were shot at the back, fleeing the scene. Marikana, those people were at the battle field, heavily armed. Stop insulting Sharpeville, Bisho, Langa, Soweto victims, don't ever assimilate them to those killers, they had already killed people, including cops. Yesterday has nothing to do with Apartheid or Racism, but people scoring points. We have people all over the country claiming to be representing the poor, whereas they know exactly that they don't have those people's aspirations at heart but seek to use them as their ticket to the new South Africa(People who just want to buy their way out of blackness, like their fellow comrades who've already done that)
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Poppitlove
@TastoWhere you have ever seen\heard a non-violent overthrow of government even in mutiny there is bloodshed of some sort!! Nothing is peaceful in any revolution & overthrow !!
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The communistic party in Poland was overthrown by Solidarity without blood being shed. It is possible, but I doubt that it will ever happen in Africa.
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Tasto
@Sjekula – selective memeory heh? Unfortunatley ppl who went to the march in 1960-Langa some related the story that ppl were carrying sticks.1976 I was young but the word comrade used to send fear to us small children “ think their violent reputation preceded them”, in 1976 for the first time heard of word :”impimpi” unfortunaltey language used against them was not white hankerchiefs/negotiations, who can forget the 1980s with “our matches & tyres will ..”P.S – Get it in yr thick skull every one has a democratic right to protest and march!!
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sh!tFaceSamsung
black friday over 30 felow black citizen lost their lives : * sad indeed * : go tla loka bana ba thari entsho : bana ba mmala wa sibilo : ke muso wa pharao : o busa ka thobolo:cry mi beloved country : Nkozisikelele iafrika : amantla : aluta continue
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Sjekula
@TastoYou're just the same as those people, my skull has just gotten thicker, you're very first resort.
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Moffdat
sh!tFaceSamsungmy chomi u poet bosso!!!!
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BELO
I don’t understand why everything that happens in this country always has to have a RACIST connotation. What happened yesterday has nothing to do with the past but all to do with the present. The UNIONS are using the uninformed worker as pawns and it is all about MONEY FOR THEIR OWN POCKETSReport Abuse
MommaC
TastoComparing what happened in 1960 and what happened yesterday is a bit foolish. One would have hoped that police methods would have improved somewhat over the past 50 years.
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Jaright
Guys, please allow me share some ONE paragraphs from each of my poems. and i hope they are relevent to the current please read themTHE DARKER SIDE OF LIGHT
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Light will always shine hiding the darker side
Light will always shine and no one will see the darker side
Light will always have a darker side going unnoticed
Light will always be in denial of the existence of the darker side
The darker side of light
RAINBOW VOLCANO
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It was too soon to pronounce it a success
It was still immature to be known as the best in the world
It intentionally mislead itself and the world
What is this Rainbow and where is it?
Is he still sleeping to wake up late or he is still confusing himself
I am afraid, the Rainbow Volcano is imminent
THE HIDDEN SHADOW OF YOU AND ME
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Man has lost God’s creation by losing their shadows
Man has redefined creation by imposing themselves to nature
Man has grossly lost touch of nature because they lost their shadow
Nature has endorsed another existence in denial
Man has gone feeble as nature is desecrated
The hidden shadow of you and me
BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO VIOLATED US
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Time is what nature respect and nature is time
Time is nature’s intrinsic element
Volcanoes don’t erupt anytime or any day but some time and some day
Earthquake and Tsunamis don’t strike anytime or any day but some time and some day
Time is a natural phenomenon that is conspicuous and ignored
Blessed are those who violated us
WHO IS YOUR ENEMY
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Is it the same person in you?
The person that talks to you alone
The person that answers you directly without opposition
The person that you make decisions with
The person that makes the final judgment
Who is your enemy?
Guys enjoy
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Bra_A
Some people are supporting the Police Action. I support neither. What supprises most is that the was no weapon next to the dead, which means the culprits are well and alive. Most families of those 45 miners who perished do have kids that needs to further their studies & now mining is not a career direction for many.Report Abuse
Tasto
@MommaCTasto
Comparing what happened in 1960 and what happened yesterday is a bit foolish. One would have hoped that police methods would have improved somewhat over the past 50 years.
You yrself in last sentence quote 50 years, because yesterday echoes a painful past Boipatong, Bisho, mahikeng, Ongoye, 1976, Sharpville even Shellhouse bloodbath !!
Tomorrow ppl If you don’t your past can’t know your future – Zmarley !!
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Poppitlove
I believe that if a minimum wage policy is implemented by government and made to be law - for all jobs across the board, it may resolve quite a few problems. And companies and employers should get fined a bunch of money if they do not adhere to the law. The minimum wage policy should be applied across the board, farm workers, waiters, private cleaners etc. I also believe that the minimum wage should not be taxableReport Abuse
Danielrjvvuren
There was a study done that said a life is worth around $129 000.Report Abuse
McLoving
@Hosh6No one in their righful mind will condone such police brutality.Our police are just obsessed of shooting to killl.They have exploited the situation and use opened ammunition to murder the miners.Why didnt they use enough teargas,water canons and some intelligence..they waited for an opportunity to present itself so that they can justifying their brutal shooting of the miners.
The more the police use live ammunition is the more the people will arm theselves ,,resulting in an escalation of viloence in the country.
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Tasto
Nationalisation of the mines might be the answer in this industry really!!Report Abuse
Tasto
At least now I can see some sensitivity in bloggs , even in the video one can hear another policeman saying to himself “damn it” maybe he could notbelieve what he saw it was horror ppl to watch yr brother\father\son being gun down like dogs with rabbies !!Report Abuse
Poppitlove
@TastoDo you really think government is capable to run a mine when they cannot even run a country properly?
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MommaC
McLovingFrom other news articles and videos, the miners outflanked the cops. The cops were busy putting down razor wire and a group came around the side and rushed the cops. To be honest, by the time the cops knew what was happening, it was do or die for them. I don't really see how they could have reacted differently - other than allowing themselves to be chopped to pieces where they stood.
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Tasto
@Poppitlove@Tasto
Do you really think government is capable to run a mine when they cannot even run a country properly?
Perhaps the Unions will have one point of contact when negotiating instead of different mining houses each one doing its thing !!
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Tasto
Can I digress, how warning shot(s) were fired if I remember if someone attacks you you must shoot in ai warning shot first ?Report Abuse
KatakataEmaotoAditshepe
Europe must be blamed as well,they must free our economy by letting African currencies to rate the same compare to their currencies,lastly give back mining into our gov's hands.Report Abuse
lindsay
@tastoP.S – Get it in yr thick skull every one has a democratic right to protest and march!!
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yeah and the constitution further says it must be peaceful and unarmed not threatning and armed to your teeth and still believe thats a right besides every right has limitations no right is absolute.
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Moffdat
KatakataEmaotoAditshepewa bua yanong. Die boys ba makgua ba nale masepa ha ba teng nou mara ka nako ya die dollar they are always amongst the fat cats!!!! Be ware of Mesono!
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JnrJack
McLoving@Hosh6
No one in their righful mind will condone such police brutality.Our police are just obsessed of shooting to killl.They have exploited the situation and use opened ammunition to murder the miners.Why didnt they use enough teargas,water canons and some intelligence..they waited for an opportunity to present itself so that they can justifying their brutal shooting of the miners.
The more the police use live ammunition is the more the people will arm theselves ,,resulting in an escalation of viloence in the country.
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my point exactly and hope no one will ever want a Civil war in Mzansi or anywhere in the world!!!
But if govt and employers keeps provoking and exploiting our ppl...then they are asking for a brutal retaliation which no one will stop it...we dont ever want that, therefor people must be treated fairly......not like animals.
mining industry is one of the biggest industry where govt knows that our ppl are treated like animals but they turn a blind eye on that till ppl start protesting
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Tasto
@lindsay - if we can follow yr logic, every service delivery protest will have bloodbaths -Think abt mothers\wives\children and say to their childre Lindsay yr father\brother\son deserve to die to protect the Capitalist
http://www.n.ews24.com/Multim.edia/South-Africa/Aftermath-at-Lonmin-mine-20120817
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JnrJack
@Tasto@Poppitlove
@Tasto
Do you really think government is capable to run a mine when they cannot even run a country properly?
Perhaps the Unions will have one point of contact when negotiating instead of different mining houses each one doing its thing !!
------------------------------------------
Do you know what constitude government??
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Tasto
@JnrJack - I don't know can u fill me in plse !Report Abuse
JnrJack
@Tasto@JnrJack - I don't know can u fill me in plse !
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we can run our own mines, ask me i will tell you...
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MommaC
JnrJackReally?
Will you run the mines like Magwa Tea Plantation?
You wouldn't know where to start running a mine. Things are very seldom as simple as they look
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Tasto
@JnrJack@Poppitlove
Public sector Unions dealt with Minister Lsisulu, so will probably mine unions if they nationalise the mines !!
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lindsay
@tastothose service delivery protest people are unarmed and are protesting so the use of water canon and teargases with rubber bullets is enough and they don't retaliate to the cops buy firing with live ammunition they just flee. according to your logic we must all be armed and march and k ill people in our way and nothing must happen to us. this is not a banana republic people are accountable to their actions thats what the constitution is for.and again what happened is unfortunate and someone should be held accountable.
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whowantstoknow
This is such a shame... Nothing will ever justify what the police did as much as it was a vice versa... One could only imagine what the families of the deceased are going through and yet abantu bakithi they're busy pointing fingers. May their souls rest in peace...Report Abuse
Tasto
@lindsay - don't lie you ganna deceive even yrself!!PS - I just remember the song by Letta Mbuli - "Play with fire" - Anyone out the with lyrics post plse, cuase I think it paints this situation ?
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Moffdat
Jnr JackDon't worry about MommaC she is as good as a prost!t@te!
MommaC
what constitutes a prostitu@@te is the immoral pursuit of profit! On that account what makes you from the ladies of the night???+
p.s. Assuming others as ignorant as you are is a mistake!!
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MommaC
MoffdatStill thinking with the 'little head' I see.
If you believe that profit is so 'immoral', may I assume that after your basic needs are met out of your salary cheque, you give all excess 'profits' back to the company as it would be 'immoral' to keep them?
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JnrJack
@MommaCJnrJack
Really?
Will you run the mines like Magwa Tea Plantation?
You wouldn't know where to start running a mine. Things are very seldom as simple as they look
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nothing is made impossible for us running our own mines, unless someone makes very difficult to manage of which I know the minority group in Mzans have and still having a pain with a success of a black person. for you own info we have already started exporting some mining commodities on a small scale and slowly but surely creeping in to the world market.
if you think a black person cant make it, please stop thinking out of the box look around and see how our sick government has done for everyone...
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Moffdat
@MommaCwhat constitutes a prostitu@@te is the immoral pursuit of profit!
Above is what i said. You should take shame in assuming people are as stup!d as you cause that just proves how dum you really are.
p.s. The head ain't little ma. You have me confused with your man!!!!
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bearpup
Hey MamaC...will you give me permission to klap this little condescending prick behind his head? Maybe it will shake his brains up a little so he can stop disrespecting you.Report Abuse
Moffdat
bearpupMommaC and Daniel and i have been fighting all day because they were more concerned about the company than the people who were killed. U ska kapa dilo mo moeng sani. U thla gobala
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CDP
In the mix of all of this, consider maybe my white Afrikaans family story starting with the mines in Johannesburg 100 years ago. 100 years ago, from the white Afrikaans perspective, the country was in ruin, war ravaged and farms burnt to the ground. Many, like my great grandfather, had to move to the city to try and survive. He got a job as a miner, i.e. he actually had to do the physical part which are now mostly done black labour. The mines (as today really) were British owned and they greedily exploited desperate, displaced white workers. This came to ahead when increasingly unionised workers in the East (where my great grandfather worked) started a strike in 1913. This strike got out of control and the Johannesburg CBD was turned into a warzone, the likes of which Cosatu could only dream to achieve today. One of the ringleaders was shot at point blank range in front of the striking masses, a 13 year old boy died after being shot through the back. My great grandfather died a poor man, his son, my grandfather worked on the mines from the age of 18. When he was 40 he became a shift leader, his first promotion, and had a team of 5 black people working for him. He retired poor, but financially sound. My father got a job at the mine working in administration, and he today is comfortably in the upper middle class. Today, I work in an air conditioned office in a bank in Sandton, I have 2 post grad degrees, the first of my family to even make it to university. It is 99 years since the white Afrikaans violently striked in 1913 against London owned company’s (how little has changed Lonmin> London Mining). Today we see the same turns and roundabouts, just different cultures. The unfortunate side to this is that how many realise, that even now that they may vote, it may well take till 2094 till those Lonmin workers have descendents with degrees working in air conditioned offices. Why, cause that’s how the world works. For Dutch immigrants 200 years ago, for black people 20 years ago. Time is the only saviour for ourselves, we bleed today for our grandkids who we might never meet, we will never beat the system, now or then.Report Abuse
MGEEZ
@All;I repeat; those miners were responsible for their own death. Last Sunday two security guards were found burned to death in their patrol car. Another man was found stabbed to death that night. A fourth body was found with five bullet wounds on Monday morning. Two policemen dispatched to the area were shot dead on Monday afternoon.
Now some of the professors on this blog have examined our brains and found us wanting because we support the police for doing their Job?????
It does not matter how many times you call us names or insult us; the bottom line is; when the police tell you to drop the weapon, you must understand that is not opened up for discussion. The next time you want to be armed and charge at the police you must understand that there will be consequences to your actions. To those miners and rest of south africans who are alive and remain, the police are there to protect our constitutional democracy, please think twice before you attack the men and women in blue!!!!
To the police; I am very proud of you; at least we know that this country will not turn into anarchy at your watch: I salute you!!!!
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MommaC
JnrJackYou see, this is the biggest problem with Cosatu thinking. They have every factory floor sweeper thinking they are able to manage something as complex as a mine. The minute you point out that it is not as easy as it sounds, they haul out the tattered and abused race card.
Running ANY business is complicated and you need to know what you are doing. Spaza shop experience doesn't cut it when it gets to something as huge as a mine. Just ask Aurora.
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MommaC
MoffdatDefine 'immoral'.
The fact that you only pick up stompies and completely ignore everything that was said before tends to point to an undiagnosed problem.
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MommaC
bearpupThese children of today! So few of them have manners.
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Danielrjvvuren
Back! Seems that the fight moved here now? God people its just Human Resources that generate income yeah people keeled over and o god the injustice of the people! How dare they be killed and how dare they die... Well actually this happens on a daily basis people die, we expire this is the nature of things and it is unfortunate really it is, but in the end how is this going to affect us? Financially it is...Report Abuse
Hosh6
Call the army to calm the situation Mr presidentReport Abuse
JnrJack
@MommaCJnrJack
You see, this is the biggest problem with Cosatu thinking. They have every factory floor sweeper thinking they are able to manage something as complex as a mine. The minute you point out that it is not as easy as it sounds, they haul out the tattered and abused race card.
Running ANY business is complicated and you need to know what you are doing. Spaza shop experience doesn't cut it when it gets to something as huge as a mine. Just ask Aurora.
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you are very much welcome and entitled to your lame and senseless perception thinking that we are unable to run big businesses and please forget gone are those days. we now have all the resources stolen from our grand, grand fathers now we have our own country back (SA will never be ruled by whites).....land claims project is very much successful, we building our people free RDP houses, social and labour grants, free education for our people....we have tarred roads, well maintained, we have electricity and running water....
may you live long so that you may our progress.....
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JnrJack
@DanielrjvvurenBack! Seems that the fight moved here now? God people its just Human Resources that generate income yeah people keeled over and o god the injustice of the people! How dare they be killed and how dare they die... Well actually this happens on a daily basis people die, we expire this is the nature of things and it is unfortunate really it is, but in the end how is this going to affect us? Financially it is...
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financially it is because most white ppl lived with their grand parents and grand children in mine houses ....if mines cant survive this finacial crisis, they will all have to evacuate mine house and we give them RDP's
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MommaC
JnrJackWho is this 'we', Kimosabe?
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Danielrjvvuren
JnrJackwe building our people free RDP houses
Yeah thats why our domestic is still waiting 12 years for her RDP house
social and labour grants, free education for our people
Social grands make us a welfare state and our "free" education is pretty much the worst thing ever as you can see it produces almost no working class students
.we have tarred roads, well maintained,
Boy what are you smoking? Tarred and well maintained? Have you been in Durban? Have you seen the state of our roads? Do you own a car that needs wheel alignment every 2nd day?
we have electricity and running water....
Yes because making the middle class people pay more for electricity is very feasible...
Are you high? Or drunk?
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Moffdat
MommaCyou're a ney sayer and i don't blame you there is a lot of negatives about RSA but the positives far outweigh them. Think back ten years to whatever monotonous town you were living in and compare to the way it is now. Truth is you don't give credit where it's due!!!
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JnrJack
~~~~~~~GOOD PPL, IT IS A DARK FRIDAY AND NOW AM LOGGING OFF~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~heading back to the Hill, JZ he is on the way coming to us and cant wait to have his presidency speech prepared by another b!tch!!
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MommaC
MoffdatI agree. The people at Lonmans mine are now a lot happier than they were yesterday - well they aren't complaining any more so they must be happier.
The problem is not me being a 'nay sayer' it is about me expecting my country to be the best that it can be. This senseless massacre is nowhere close to being the best. What I saw on TV and on the various videos is something that should NEVER happen here.
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Moffdat
MommaCThis country has been lost and won in blood. We sweat the blood through our ancestry, the poverty of our intellectuals and the ignorance of the greedy. However everytime something bad happens we disregard all the progress and point to our flaws. This has to stop... currently our country is going through the most progressive period we've ever known but everyone is a ney sayer. I cannot think of one country that has done better than us if that is not doing the best we can i don't know what is!
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Danielrjvvuren
We are in the "African Renaissance" just sad it took 5 centuries to catch up to European countries.Report Abuse
child4real
Its so sad that ordinary people are feeling this cold about the people who have lost their lives. All along I was wondering how do the people of this country are feeling about their citzenship in this country. This hatred that is going on white people hating black people and the other black people looking down into others who do not have much and who are being exploited by their employers,is going to devide the country more than it is ever devded.All the people could do eventhough they wont do much to change the situation is just to sympathise with those employees. Our country still has a lot to offer in a good way that hating and descriminating one another as we are doing.
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MommaC
MoffdatI can think of many countries that are doing better than us. We completely failed to take advantage of the recession they had in the EU and the USA and we have made only marginal strides towards economic equality or basic service implementation.
We can't be Polly Anna for ever. To ignore anything that is bad because there is some good is not progress and it doesn't do our country any good. Yes, fine give credit where it is due but don't lower the standards because a little bit was done. Praise the Metro cops for getting unroadworthy buses off the road but don't forget that that is THEIR JOB. We can't now give the Metro cops the year off so they can sit on their laurels and ignore the buses because they spent one day this year doing what we pay them to do.
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Moffdat
MommaCNo country has suffered what we have and progressed so far.
Name one... you can't cause there isn't. Every single one of my friends (young as we are) have a rags to riches story. Now i don't know you but i suggest you start seeing our country through different eyes. you sound worse than the BBC reporters
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Danielrjvvuren
In the end our lives are cheap and our life expectancy is even lower. All we can do is live and let live. Moral of the story do not go to war if you are not ready for the consequences. Violence only breeds more violence. Their is a problem with the Africa,whites included, if this is how it is going to be.Report Abuse
MommaC
MoffdatGermany, Japan, Australia, Liberia, Brazil ..... all had more than their fair share of woes but managed to sort themselves out.
Your friends are young, upward mobile and in jobs (Yuppies, is what they were called last century). For the average person living in a rural area or a squatter camp, life isn't exactly a bed of roses. Those are the people that I 'see'. Many don't. Many just don't see them - they are the invisible people.
We have 50 million people in SA and just under 7 million tax payers on the SARS register - that tells the whole tale right there.
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MommaC
DanielrjvvurenI recon it is something in the water. Some kind of 'common sense parasite' that sucks all the sense out.
Dumbassery is becoming epidemic.
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Danielrjvvuren
MommaCDaar is 'n drol in die drink water. In the end we can just look after ourselves. Guys good luck with the weekend I'm on my way to finishing some whiskey then party ho! Enjoy the weekend and be wise condomize! hahah
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Tasto
@MommaC - Your friends are young, upward mobile and in jobs (Yuppies, is what they were called last century). For the average person living in a rural area or a squatter camp, life isn't exactly a bed of roses. Those are the people that I 'see'. Many don't. Many just don't see them - they are the invisible people.What caught my eye those ppl died in front of shacks - poor of the poor indeed yet we condemn them just like that without any thought or sensitivity to life!!
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MommaC
DanielrjvvurenBe safe Daniel and don't drink and drive :)
I best be off too. The bread isn't going to bake itself and the hoards need feeding. Have a good one :)
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MommaC
TastoSomeone starts shooting at me, I'm not going to ask for their bank statement before shooting back. Can't really ask the police to do otherwise either.
As desperately sad as it is, they were used as cannon fodder in the gang war between the unions. It is criminal.
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Moffdat
MommaCYou clearly donot understand the complexity of our past. Every era has seen bloodshed. every culture, race creed. Below you will find some of the comments your boyfriend threw at me while i was nailing him to the wall. This is the person you seek to help you when friends are few. Pitiful!!! It has only been 18 years... how long ago did the coutries you just mentioned have their respective 'tragedies'
Danielrjvvuren
I cant resist I must respond one last time humans are resources to exploit like any other and your life has no consequence to me. If I must put a bullet in your head to get ahead I will. Stop being such a gay about it and just man the fu-ck up really. Humans are expandable
Ai you know you blacks always had a short term memory problem, but don't stress yourself you won't live long enough to matter. All these gay things you say
How does it feel to know that my grandfather mowed through your ancestry with an automatic rifle at sharpville and in klerksdorp.
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MommaC
MoffdatLOL
My 'boyfriend'?
I'm not sure what kind of women you have in your family but in my family we don't 'date' boys who are younger than our own sons.
Do yourself a massive favour and google 'the iron ladies of Liberia'. What they did in just 6 months is enough to take your breath away. Then look up and see what Hiroshima and Nagasaki looked like after they were nuked, A bit of research will also give you an idea of how the GDP of Brazil, India and Australia have benefited from the 'recession'. Why didn't we?
By the way, what was your response to Daniel? Or do we need mommy to fight the (very obviously juvenile) battle for you?
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Moffdat
MommaCHey idiot how long ago were those things you just mentioned???
Liberia really really. you think liberia is better than us what pipe have you been smoking. Your kind are disgusting i suggest you move out of our country and pledge allegiance to some other. We don't want you or any of your kids.
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Moffdat
MommaCWhen you talk through your @ss you really stink up the place.
u marete a poedi.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Off to see people with principals. Wish me luck for my meeting guys______________________________she you'll 2mrw
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MommaC
MoffdatThere we go again. When all else fails just resort to insults. GROW UP.
I mentioned Liberia because of the amount of progress that was made. They have miles to go before they are even close to being as well off as we are. The thing is that they made HUGE strides. That is what comes of political will and hard work.
Who died and elected you god of who lives in SA? It is also debatable if anyone in SA wants people living here who are proving to be the type of snot nosed little brat that you are portraying with your insults.
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MommaC
Oh yes, and your insult is a bit ridiculous. As a female, I don't have that particular anatomical feature - although with your level of charm, you may never have had the opportunity to find that out for yourselfReport Abuse
skwamasamabele
shooting miners wont help, will just make the problem worseReport Abuse
spatch
The charge of the not-so-bright Brigade?Whoever persuaded all those miners to charge against men armed with rifles must be a pretty good salesman.
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justiceforworkingpeople
The police on behalf of the government were impressing on the mining company, whom they want to keep sweet, just how far they will go to suppress the workers. Mining companies are brutal exploiters globally, who pollute the earth killing flora and fauna. Every life has value no matter what. Shame on anyone who regards another human being as expendable. Freedom, justice and equality to working people everywhere.Report Abuse
spatch
justiceforworkingpeopleTell that to Comrade Zimbobwe who only pays his miners R820 pm and reguarly shoots hundered of illegal STARVING miners, and not forgetting them N Korean miners who work for less than peanuts pm.
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justiceforworkingpeople
In Zimbabwe, Zambia, Malawi, DRC, China, India, throughout South America......All deserve to live with dignity, proper safety levels and a wage that reflects the dangerous work that they do. As long as there are exploited workers anywhere in the world there will be efforts to drive down wages and conditions in a competition to make products cheaper but the reality is that human life is cheapened and most stuff we buy and hoard isn't necessary.Report Abuse
Ndele01
The last paragraph of the article caught my eye - "It also calls into question the capacity of those who run the country ".With the exception of one or two countries, history to date has proven that African leaders do not have the capacity....whether we want to accept it or not - there is no proof of such leaders.
When leaders come in to power, they can not judge "how much is enough". They won't steal R10000 - but reather R100 million if they can. They never have enough (look at Mugabe) - and it won't change soon when looking at Africa's track record.
But the worst is when you have the choice of democracy like South Africa - and then you vote for all this corruption !
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JANEL
ANC cadre deployment is to blame. We get told daily about their astounding salaries even if they are not competant for the job. ANC protects it own.Miners actually do dangerous work. They WORK for the meagre earnings and properly feel they should earn more.
The ANC promised them a better life for all. Is this the better life?
As for police their hostility and corruption is also almost daily noted in the media.
No this tragedy could have been prevented. Gov must stop making empty promises! ANC should be working for the people but it's the other way round. We work for peanuts so that ANC fatcat can deploy more cadres and live in the lap of luxury!
This is what has lead to the anger.
The poor are getting sick of being ripped off and it's a never ending cycle.
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Mapungubgwe
I am surprised that South Africans are also "Africans' because this is the term you use as a ridicule on us and our contries, does it have to take a gun to teach you who you are? Stop thinking that you are better than other people,I dont blame you but blame your Apartheid masters who taught you separatism.Welcome African brothers and Sisters at least you are waking up from your dream.Report Abuse
S'ponono
Editor, this is a good article. The sad thing, is that we are a nation at war with ourselves, and we have a long way to go in understanding that what we have ahead of us is bigger than any one person.We need to become one nation. One nation where we repect ourselves and each other. One nation where we can only be successful if all of us share in the success.
And it is really distressing that people like Malema are allowed to be so opportunistic, and use something so terrible and tragic to whip up peoples emotions, divide us, and drive his own political agenda. This is a time for mourning, and a time for great leadership.
Will true leaders please stand up?
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