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The roots of ANC instability

Reverend Frank Chikane
Reverend Frank Chikane

FORMER director-general in the Presidency Frank Chikane has written a book detailing the events surrounding the removal of former president Thabo Mbeki from office. In Eight Days in September: The Removal of Thabo Mbeki, Chikane says the axing of Mbeki was similar to a coup d'état.

Political editor Moipone Malefane spoke to Chikane.

MOIPONE MALEFANE (MM):Why did you write the book?

FRANK CHIKANE (FC): I had decided a long time before that when I left government I would write about my experiences, even before former president Thabo Mbeki was recalled.

I took the decision that I would write about all the things that I could not say while I was a civil servant. We have allowed other people to write about our experiences in the struggle. So I decided that the time had come for us to tell our own stories.

When president Mbeki was removed he knew about my decision. I then spoke to Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe when he took over government about my decision.

I also informed President Jacob Zuma in 2009. The objective to write was always there.

MM: Why do you think former president Mbeki was a victim of circumstances?

FC: My book states the events as they happened. I have left that (whether he was a victim or not) to the readers to decide.

Zuma had stated that the man should be left alone to finish his term, but ANCYL president Julius Malema told the nation that "Mbeki would be removed by the ANC by Monday" (in 2008) - and that happened.

I have chosen not to say whether he was victimised or Zuma misled him. I never interviewed Mbeki when I wrote the book. It is based on what I know and what I saw and I have left it to the public to interpret.

MM: Did you believe that Mbeki would complete his term as president of the Republic after he was defeated in Limpopo?

FC: The natural thing would have been to allow him to complete his term. He was left with eight months only. He was not doing anything - he was not interfering with the new ANC leadership. He simply focused on the ANC manifesto to ensure that he delivers so that the party could win the 2009 elections. That is why in the book I say I struggled to find why the ANC removed him.

MM: But you refer to the ANC relying on Judge Chris Nicholson's judgment to recall him. (The judgment claimed that Mbeki had a hand in the corruption charges against Zuma).

FC: Nicholson produced a bad judgment that was torn apart by the Supreme Court of Appeal. It was his judgment that was used by the ANC to remove Mbeki.

It had holes and it was not supposed to have been used against Mbeki.

There were also big efforts to ensure that there was no appeal but those efforts did not succeed. In fact, the judgment was thrown out but Mbeki was already gone.

MM: Had Mbeki retained his position as ANC president after Polokwane, was he going to change the Constitution to serve a third term as the country's president?

FC: No. (He was) not going to go back to government.

Mbeki never said he wanted a third term.

He spent much of his time getting African presidents to respect their country's constitutions.

Before going to the ANC conference in Polokwane, I was already working on his exit strategy.

We were planning celebrations that were killed by his removal.

We had planned what he would do during his last State of the Nation Address, on Human Rights Day to Freedom Day where he was going to give a speech to bid the nation goodbye.

MM: There are views that Mbeki created Zuma's problems (ahead of Polokwane).

FC: There are people who say that. People thought the charges against Zuma were brought by him and that he could have intervened to get them dropped. He could not. Why would Mbeki do that? He can only pardon after the sentence.

In other countries presidents can intervene. But not here in South Africa - with the kind of Constitution we have. There are those who say he wanted him charged. That's their view.

Mbeki's removal was the beginning of the challenges the ANC faces today; the instability that has found expression in the ANC. People took sides. And Zuma's charges also complicated things further.

MM: When did the instability start?

FC: It started when (Zuma's financial adviser Schabir) Shaik was charged and the subsequent removal of Mbeki in 2008 (Shaik was found guilty of corruption after he bribed Zuma). I have said before that after the Polokwane conference, the ANC will never be the same.

MM: What do you mean?

FC: Polokwane entrenched a slate system which has divided the party. People are not appointed based on capacity but on who they support. We are not producing leaders who are best to run the party or the country. After Polokwane, people used anything to get into powerful positions. Therefore, the ANC will never be the same again.

What we see now is, if a particular group wins, those in government who do not support them have to go. We need a system similar to the US whereby if the politicians go, the civil servants remain and they also have powers. Here political heads are more powerful than civil servants.

MM: But you were part of Mbeki's campaign ...

FC: No, no. This slate campaign is wrong. I did not agree with it. It impacts negatively on government. Mbeki would know that I did not agree with slates. I told the campaigners for both Mbeki and Zuma. I may have mentioned it to Mbeki but not Zuma. We will end up being governed by a faction.

MM: The Congress of the People is associated with Mbeki. Why is there nothing about it in the book?

FC: I wrote about my experiences in government; not about the ANC. Otherwise, I would have included Cope.

MM: Where do you think the country is headed?

FC: We are not in a healthy state. We need to normalise the politics in the country. We need a democracy where nothing is driven by fear. We can't have a country where people are (empowered) because they (are part of) a faction that is in power.

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